One of those 'Europe' fodorites --- e-gads !!! you folks on the USA board certainly trump us when it comes to tearing into each other on a topic that's tangentially related to travel. <BR> <BR> . . . get me back to the "which arrondissement of Paris should I stay in" talk . . .

Nothing worse than a bunch of mothers going to war over bottle vs. breast or wahm vs. sahm! Put your claws away ladies! Who cares if you breast feed your kid or not. If you want to get worked up about something, turn your tv set on to the earthquake in India! Explain to all those people who have had their homes destroyed and loved ones killed why you think breast is best!

I must say I'm struck by the level of anger being evoked during a discussion about something as benevolent and gentle as a mother nursing her baby. Why do you suppose that is?

Well, Sigmund, isn't it usually the folks who don't have something that are the loudest about denying it to everybody else? Maybe their moms stuck that plastic nipple in their little mouths and stuck them in front of a TV. Just cases of arrested development, and possibly nipple envy (not to be too scientific). I bet every one of them drives a SUV with dark windows. C

Yes, breastfeeding is better for the child. And I breastfed both of my children. BUT, sitting down in the middle of the mall to pop a tit out to nurse a 2 year old child IS NOT APPROPRIATE. It's one thing to be discreet about it. It's another to force it upon the rest of the world. <BR> <BR>And I have photographed a friend's baby nursing. From the angle that mom sees the baby. It was a GREAT picture! She was THRILLED to have it. But I'll bet it's not hanging on the wall in her home.

Lots of women, like myself, were breastfeed and have also breastfeed our children but think that it isn't a good idea to display, as I have seen in public. I think Sigmund would say those women are seeking attention for themselves. How about that actress on Johnny Carson years ago who nursed on the Late Show! It set La Leche back fifty years. Some women are very good at the womanly art and they don't get militant about it. And I have seen it "whipped out" in a classroom and also in a shopping mall. Sorry, but I don't want to live in a culture like Guadeloupe and I like the nudity laws as they stand, thank you. <BR> <BR>

I promise this is fini for me. Look at recent postings ... pop a tit ... whip it out ... display it in public. And so forth. My god, it's an it. This thread feels like a boys locker room. Thankfully it isn't olfactory (whoops ... for you XFL'ers, that's sense of smell). Ciao (ok ... chow)

I am with Anna. People in America have no problem looking at breasts on billboards, tv. magazines, etc. Most publications show more of the womans breast than you would see when a woman breast feeds. It is a natural thing, just like drinking anything in public. Is it more 'natural' to give a baby milk that is produced with chemicals? Would you think it was ok to give a newborn soda pop? Of course not! God designed the womans breast for 2 functions. Mans pleasure and babys nourishment. What a wonderful God we have. I was a very happy mom knowing that my milk was the sole nourishment for all 3 of my children. They are teenagers now, and I miss that time I had to with them when they were babies. I am not the only mom who feels this way either. I have spoken to other moms who have long been over the breast feeding, and that is one of the things they really miss. I am all for breatfeeding , discreetly. I would not take food or dring into a public restroom, I want to get in & out of there. WHy would I want to subject myself to sitting there for possibly 20 mins waiting for my child to finish lunch? Would you eat in a public bathroom?

This thread really has outlived its usefulness and become another, stupid, non-related tangent. Too the original poster, why didn't you ask this question to your friends or co-workers instead of bringing it up here?? What are you some kind of goofy, neurotic seeking attention. And, to the rest of you...back to something more relevant to travel please.

You're missing the point altogether. <BR> <BR>It's one thing to sit in a quiet corner of a restaurant and discreetly nurse an infant. Most department stores now offer a baby changing and nursing area with comfortable chairs to use while nursing. When you stop in the middle of Crate and Barrel to do so, that's popping a tit out. When you sit down in the middle of the atrium at the mall, that's popping a tit out. When your child is big enough to climb up in your lap and undress you to nurse, that's popping a tit out. <BR> <BR>I nursed my children. But did so discreetly. Yes, you'll have some people that are offended anyway. But I will bet that the majority of the public are not offended by nursing, but would prefer that the nursing mom be a little more discreet about her activities.

Lydia - good points. The anti-folks no doubt are the type to eat in the bathroom. And Amen, learn grammar.

To everyone who suggests the woman should go to the ladies' room to nurse: NO, NO, NO! Nursing takes 20-30 minutes. If one person ties up a stall for that long in a busy restroom (like an airport), the line can get huge. Don't punish everyone else by hogging a stall. Just nurse discreetly where you are. Thanks.

Okay, so now I have another question. Why do you suppose so many people equate breastfeeding with bathroom functions? Actually babies do both. Nobody seems to mind if they eliminate in public (as long as they're diapered, of course) but somehow feeding has to be done in a public toilet? Interesting...

Joseph-Blow it out your ass you jerk!

I think women should have to walk around with any clothes on all the time. Except the fat ugly ones. That will solve all of the problems. I say bring out the boobs and feed away!!!!!

Now, now, Amen/Amen2, lets keep it faith-based. I was only suggesting you might need a touch-up in the word and punctuation department. Beside, I'm not built that way - I'm simply aghast at your imagery. And XXX, speaking of boobs. You two are peas in the pod.

It's not that they associate nursing with bathroom functions. It's that there is a door with some degree of privacy. <BR> <BR>Personally, a bathroom is the place I would nurse or express milk. When I had to go back to work, I weaned my daughters to 2 feedings per day. She took formula in a bottle the rest of the time.

I am 41 yrs old, married, no kids. Have lived in one of the most travelled to and populated places in the world for my whole life - NYC. If I have seen 2 women breast feeding in public during this time, it would be a lot. I think that I would be embarrassed, and look away, not because of the 'exposure' (I have my own, thank you), but because I would feel like I was seeing something incredibly intimate & personal between a mother & her child, and that I would be an intruder. What a wonderful bonding experience. I wouldn't want to be distracted by staring strangers, or have the mood spoiled with disapproving glances. Let's give the Mom's a break here. But Mom's, remember when the shoe was on the other foot please. Not saying you should be in a dirty bathroom stall, but if you are going someplace and you know in advance that a bathroom is your only option, you could try to be prepared.

The following was posted on a BB I frequent and I thought a cut and paste to bring it here might lighten the mood a bit. <BR> <BR>How would the world be different if men had breasts? <BR> <BR>If men had breasts would they ever leave the house? <BR>Would mammograms be free and underwire bras illegal? <BR>The following are 20 ways Women.com members thought the world would be <BR>different if men were the ones with bodacious ta-tas: <BR> <BR>***************************** <BR>"Hooters would change its name to Just Another Burger Place." <BR> <BR>"Gravity would be illegal." <BR> <BR>"They would understand why it is so hard for women to decide what to wear." <BR> <BR>"Bodacious ta-tas wouldn't be called ta-tas, they'd be called hairy man <BR>breasts." <BR> <BR>"Sagging breasts would be universally thought of as a sign of wisdom and <BR>success." <BR> <BR>"They would understand our confusion about why men are so obsessed with <BR>them." <BR> <BR>"Breast implants and uplifts would be covered by insurance companies." <BR> <BR>"Breastfeeding would be a sacrament." <BR> <BR>"We would still be waiting for the invention of the wheel. The discovery of fire is questionable." <BR> <BR>"Women would have great fun playing with them." <BR> <BR>"The handshake would be replaced by the breast feel." <BR> <BR>There wouldn't be a need for bras -- men's hands would provide enough <BR>support." <BR> <BR>"Babies would be breastfed publicly! And men would brag to each other about how long they nursed their children." <BR> <BR>"Men might actually make eye contact with women." <BR> <BR>"There would be at least one National Breast Appreciation Day." <BR> <BR>"Men would be all day in the gym trying to make them stay firm." <BR> <BR>"Wet T-shirt contests would be major events just like the Super Bowl. And the prizes would be things like bass boats, sports cars and four-wheel-drive trucks." <BR> <BR>"Cup Z would be every man's dream." <BR> <BR>"Considering it's very rare to see a man's ***** in movies, breasts would no doubt become as taboo." <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

to the top

What do you mean 'if men had breasts' ? <BR>Most Americam men DO have them, along with their massive guts & their sagging behinds !

Re-write the term troll to mean small, ugly person who lives on pond-scum under bridges and apply it to the jerkowitz who went looking back through 4 months of posts to resurrect this one. Quintessential troublemaker with WAY too much time on his hands.

Steve asks a fair question and it is relevant. My wife has breast-fed amongst family, at the airport, on planes, at restaurants, at parks, on the beach etc., etc.. It's good for the kids and studies say that women who have breast-fed get breast cancer to a lesser degree than other women. Breast-feeding outfits are specially made these days to allow the mother to feed the child without revealing much of anything to the general public. The only trouble my wife ever got for breast-feeding in public was from a Catholic-conversion class she took a couple of years ago. A couple of nasties prevailed upon a very weak priest to ask my wife to leave the classroom when breast-feeding. Pretty pathetic and a little shameful for a Church that allegedly desires more children.

I am all for nursing in public. Last week, my girlfriend and I were at a JCPennys and she let me nurse right there next to the show department.

But Frank, that's precisely WHY the Catholic Church wouldn't want more breastfeeding. It impairs fertility=fewer kids. Worldwide average space between kids in countries where exclusive breastfeeding and no artificial contraception is the norm=4 years. I used to sit right in the front pew when I was nursing kids. The only one who could see was the priest and he never said anything.

You have a point, Anna, you sly young lady. Our third child has breast-fed the longest (he's 18 months) and my wife didn't start to menstruate again until the boy was nine months old. We didn't succeed in baby-making until 5 weeks ago. As I am 41 and my wife 34, breast-feeding will be limited to six months with the next child.

Just because a lactating woman doesn't typically have a menstrual cycle, please do not assume that she is not ovulating! If you do not believe me, ask your ob/gyn!

Okay, I'll ask my ob/gyn.

Seriously, my wife and I haven't used birth control for years and we still have a hard time getting pregnant until she starts getting her period.

Gosh Frank, thanks for sharing. Would you like to post a picture of your wife in labor too, while you're at it?

How many kids do you want to have? Are you trying to have your own baseball team? also, why woould you want to have your kids that close together anyway. I have 4 yo and plan on having 1 more child but haven't even started to think about trying again yet. I don't want to pay for dayare for more than 1 child at a time so we plan to wait till this one is at least in kindergarten. furhtermore, I an't imagine having 2 toddlers running around at the same time, one is tiring enough. We figure if our hild is at least 6 when little bro/sis is born, he an at least understand when we ask him to behave and play quietly so that we don't have 2 kids up at night, 2 kids with diapers, etc. etc. how do people do it having kids in a row? Just for the record, I didn't breatfeed with my first and won't with my second either. These days with the formula that comes n powder form in little pakets where you just open add water and have an instant bottle, the convenience is something I just can't pass up. To me that would be like choosing to wash loth diapers over the widely sold disposables (somehting I would never do!)

Did anybody see "Shrek"? It's about a troll, get it? Maybe if it was about breastfeeding on an airplane or on Bourbon Street...

We're having this debate over which Red Roof to stay in later in June when we got to WV for the wedding. Yes, some of you will recall she's the one who put up with the abuser for fifteen years. Well, we're past that now, and dealing with this newer thorny issue of cheap motels, interstate noise and proximity to the exit. Look, this is my dime, and not my partner's, so I might as well say right up front I favor the roofer at I64 and McCorkle Avenue, or exit 54 for the few who may favor us with local insight. At $49.95 it may be a steal, or is it more likely "I came as a stranger and they took me in" ... or as the Bard might say were he among us and travelling life's interstates these days to Lear in rap over the waves, ah, therein's the rub. Perhaps red roof is allegorical to this discussion. Or maybe not. But we're at the phone booth, used our last coins, and night is closing in. We need an answer, and you're our last hope. Ci.. (tone)

Leone (L.) <BR>Please don't hang up. I need a clue re: above post. Can't seem to figure this one out. Does it have to do with an old Valdosta thread?

Saw Shrek, he's an Ogre, not a troll.

Gee --- I wonder if these men would have a problem with that breast being seen in public if it didn't have a baby attached to it??!!!

"?????" doesn't get it. She is hopelessly selfish. Let's see: she works and sends her kid to day jungle, she won't permit him/her to have a sibling playmate until he/she is too old to enjoy the playmate and will banish him/her to the corner when they are curious or want to play with the infant, and she feeds by bottle because it is selfishly convenient to pour powder and water in a bottle. <BR> <BR>"?????" just forget about the fact that it has been proven to be better for the baby: breastfed babies are sick less often, have less orthodontic problems because of better jaw formation due to the different suckling pattern with breast than bottle, and some studies show that breastfed babies may be smarter. I guess "?????" will live with her increased risk of breast cancer. Mother's who breastfeed cut their risk of breast cancer significantly with increased risk reduction with more accumulative years of breastfeeding. <BR> <BR>We have a lot of children because we love children. I can't really say that it sounds like you love your child. You only want the child selfishly on your terms and whoa if anything inconveniences you in the slightest or may be better for the child and less convenient for you. Wait until your child grows to be a teenager. Your years of example by taking the easy way out and never inconveniencing yourself will come back to bite you in the butt. Selflessness and charity will probably not be reflected in your child(ren) because you show none of it.

Dear: a (Frank's wife), <BR>WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!

guess what? I am still breastfeeding my toddler and (horror of horrors) I use cloth diapers. I must still live in the dark ages. But I have to agree that a little thought to the spacing of children is a good idea, but maybe not for the reasons stated by ???.

A question for ?????? After you use the little packets and finish feeding the baby, don't you have a bottle to carry around, wash, etc.? NOTHING beats breastfeeding for convenience! Also,my pediatrician told me nearly 30 years ago that breastfed babies have fewer and less serious allergies, among other advantages. <BR> <BR>I had a friend while I was in high school whose only sibling was six years older than she was. She said she always felt like an only child (and she meant lonely). In addition, I think that the longer a child is the only child, the harder it will be to adjust to a new sib. You may find the older one waking up with nightmares or wetting the bed in an unconcious desire to get some of the "babying" that the baby is getting. BTW, even a 4- or 5-year-old can be a lot of help with a baby or toddler (playing with, running to get a diaper or a toy, helping to feed, etc.