don't call it Cali either!

As far as getting into restaurants, the top names will take more than a call the day of; just the way it is. There are plenty of smaller cafes etc away from heart of the tourist areas that you can basically get into with short wait, in the Castro, Noe Valley, areas of Mission and Dolores.

The homeless are an issue, it does take the shine off the city, but we have been able to walk by unscathed almost all the time.

@Patsy - it may be cheaper to turn the car in when you get into SF and then do a single day rental when you need to go out to visit family. With parking running from $35 upwards of $50, it may be best not to keep the car.

Note to others: If you want a particular dinner time, book well in advance to avoid disappointment.

fishskis: nice report! It's good to hear the negatives sometimes - gives more of the reality of a city.

San Francisco, like any big city, has its good neighborhoods and its bad neighborhoods. Just to the west of Union Square is the Tenderloin, an area long known as one with the highest crime rate (aside from Hunter's Point) in San Francisco.

The Tenderloin is also the most diverse of San Francisco's neighborhoods - high crime, drugs, lots of poor immigrants, plenty of ethnic restaurants, theater district, and some of the best classic buildings in San Francisco (unfortunately very run down) as the Tenderloin used to be inhabited by the rich.

http://www.friendlyneighborhoodguide...The-Tenderloin

That's the Tenderloin. Unless you have reason to be there (e.g., going to a play), this is not an area to go "wandering", even in the daytime.

As zootsi has pointed out, there are other more pleasant areas to wander in San Francisco.


I remember the days when there were no homeless in San Francisco. The homeless problem started with President Reagan's refusal to fund certain social services and many (borderline) mental cases and addicts found themselves out on the street with no/little support. The homeless problem has gotten worse because of other factors, such as, the good weather. With federal monies withdrawn, the burden of caring for the homeless has fallen on the city of San Francisco itself and it has been making a valiant effort for years:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGD9M1QV41.DTL

So, please don't judge the City too harshly simply because of the homeless issue.


Finally, Swan Oyster Depot is famous for not taking reservations and for closing its doors (stopping the lines) at 5:30pm. We once stood in line for several hours only to have the line being closed with the couple immediately in front of us! Them be the breaks, but it's a bummer nonetheless.

If you want oysters in San Francisco, try the food court in the basement of the Westfield Shopping Center on Market. There's an oyster bar downstairs - obviously neither famous nor with long waiting lines - but a fresh oyster is a fresh oyster. :)

That's a gourmet food court with some of the most amazing ethnic foods (we love the Korean stall) - try it the next time you're in San Francisco!


Patsy: I second Bowsprit's suggestion that you try for a hotel either at the Embarcadero or at Fisherman's Wharf.

Patsy - I love Cow Hollow Suites in the Cow Hollow area. Found out about them on this website. Put my parents up there too for their 50th wedding anniversary - they LOVED the place. Parking is free/included. Check them out....

http://www.cowhollowsuites.com/

Wow, I didn't know San Franciscan's were so sensitive in regards to the abbreviation of the city's name.

Thank you to all for the comments on the hotel issue. I will surely look into staying in either the Embarcadero or Fisherman's Wharf area when I visit San Francisco. I also was thinking about returning the car early and renting for one day for the trip up to Point Reyes. I didn't realize the parking was so expensive. I guess it is the same in all big citys, I should have thought about this coming from New York City (NYC). Thanks again everyone.

Yeah - "Frisco" is just one of those nicknames that people can't stand, but for whatever reason, it has amazing staying power.

Former President Reagan didn't start the "homeless problem". They were plenty of bums/winos/addicts there while I was going to law school at UC Hastings in the early 70's - and the Tenderloin has/had been downtrodden for decades. Now it seems they have been allowed to become more aggressive and also bother people in Union Square.

Actually - SF seemingly has become such a liberal bastion that they would rather cut down a tree - oh the horror - than enforce any kind of vagrancy laws.

Progressive is one thing - which I enjoyed while living there (swinging 70's and all) - but the current state of political affairs in SF is just ridiculous.

At times - with their nonsensical decrees/resolutions - the SF Board of Supervisors - not to mention the former mayor - Gavin - (trust baby/lecher) - Newsome - have become the laughing stock of the nation.

Oh yes - not wise to call is "Frisco" - especially when visiting there. :)

And BTW: Fisherman's wharf is crowded and full of tourists, while the Embarcadero area has a lot going on - but is concrete and high-rises for the most part.

I would suggest you check out staying down by the Marina/Chestnut St./Union St/Cow Hollow area - in one of the Motor Hotels along Lombard (yes - there are some quiet ones - such as the Chelsea Inn http://www.chelseamotorinn.com/ ) - or one of the B & B's such as this one: http://www.unionstreetinn.com/

Just google away.

No political judgments or stereotyping please, especially from people who don't live in SF or haven't done so for years. Or at least take it to the Lounge.

November moon - this is what I posted last week regarding the Frisco thing and the answer from Frank. Interesting. Thought of LoveItaly, she would have known:

I wrote:
Humm, my dad was a native Californian, was in the Navy in WWII, shipping out of San Francisco etc. As kids, I remember him always referring to it as Frisco. Was it a WWII navy thing?

FrankS on Jun 1, 12 at 7:40am
Michelle,
I believe the 'dont call it Frisco' crowd didnt get going until after WW2. Long before the 'dont call it Frisco' crowd was born, natives called it Frisco. Frisco TX was so named because it was on the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway and chose the name to honor San Francisco.

So it may be a very old time phrase that some of us picked up from our parents. I still call a refrigerator an ice box.

Just the facts. Period. And I go back to "Bagdhad by the Bay" every year - sometimes twice or more - so why am I not allowed to comment?

Thanks to fishkis for posting a literate, interesting post about some of the problems he encountered. As a NY'er who has lived here for almost 30 years, I concur w/ some of his observations. But let me amplify his comments.

Whatever goes on w/ the economy is magnified with homeless and destitute people. With our schizophrenic economy here (lots of rich young things moving to SF to work for Google or Yahoo or Genentech, driving up rents and paying ridiculous amounts for apartments, which drives out regular working families and others ) AND a laissez-faire attitude on the part of city government, the homeless situation IS way uglier and more intrusive that it's been in a long time. As one example, I live in the Upper Haight and we never go to GG park without walking to an entrance far away from the main entrance near Kezar stadium. Or if I go downtown - near the Nordstrom and Bloomingdale mall - I am shocked by the roving gangs of toughs, smelly beggars and others that even mall security does nothing about.

that said, i, there are nice hotels in SOMA at several price points, Nob Hill, even the upper Haight that would offer a better SF experience in many ways.

As to taxis, get Taxi Magic on your phone and text your taxi call - works great. We do have a weird taxi problem but I have found w/ taxi magic wait times are almost nil.

Or if you have cash to burn - text Ubercar and be taken where you need to go for about a third to a half over a regular taxi, but you'll be transported in a TownCar or other nice sedan.

And parking is a huge problem here. NO excuses, it just sucks. In the mission you do have the 21st and Bartlett lot for a couple of dollars and hour and it rarely fills except for prime time on Saturday nights.

If you just left from here, this is PRIME tourist time as we have the US Open starting this week, school just got out a couple of weeks ago so I'm not surprised the top restos had no availability. Gary Danko is famous for being booked and not everyone and his brother has heard about eating at the bar so that's not a big help.

And if you drove to get a snack at Tartine you would have waited 1/2 an hour anyway - better to drop of your friend and pick him up in 20 min.

(FYI You wanted to go to some of the most popular places in town, and didn't realize they'd be booked. We never go to tartine anymore because we cant deal with the waits and we live here.)

With all that said, I love SF and won;t live anywhere else just now, but we don't know how to really be a city. I don't think anyone could have predicted the population density we're dealing with and how many services (taxis, restos, apartments etc) would be impacted. I hope you had a fun trip anyway.

Well said mztery.

Clearly no one can stop you from commenting tomsd. I was suggesting that comments about SF politics and opinions about said politics are better suited for the Lounge. But alas this is not to be and this thread will continue with personal postings about what is wrong with SF and of course the homeless problem, which I suppose is inevitable given the nature of OP's "trip report".

I was also "clarifying" what easytraveler had said - that the "homeless problem" had started with Reagan.

And the sad state of affairs in parts of SF cannot just be swept away to the Lounge. Sorry.

I remember our last trip to SF about 10 years ago being unpleasantly surprised at how bad the homeless issue was (aggressiveness, litter, sheer numbers). Sad to hear that it may have gotten even worse.

We have recently returned from our first visit to San Francisco. Our first hotel was in Union Square ,The Chancellor, and we loved it. While there are defintely homeless people I just did what I always do,walk briskly. I am not a very big person , and I never felt threatened. However I work in an inner city neighbourhood in Ontario so I guess I am fairly accustomed to people who fall outside the norms of society. The time I felt a little nervous in San Fran was when we were walking back to our second hotel ,The Hotel De Sol and there was no one around. I figure there is always safety in numbers so Union Square didn't bother me. We much preferred the Union Square location,not because we are shoppers, it just seemed easier to get around from there.

All that said - I feel I need to add, while the homeless population may be annoying and more aggressive than in other places:

• Homeless folks may be aggressive but they rarely actually steal or injure people.
• We don't have many pickpockets like other places
• MOST of the beggars are really OK with just a "not today, sorry" or "Sorry, take care."

Getting away from the political issues - some hotels I've stayed at that are in good areas:

The Laurel - a 3* small hotel in Pacific Heights. Very nice area.

The Kabuki - another 3* hotel, impeccable service. In Japantown. This place is VERY Japaneese, complete with kimonos in the rooms - fun place in a nice neighborhood.

San Remo - a small 2* hotel on the edge of the North Beach area. Very European (shared baths), charming small rooms. Inexpensive.

I don't know why everyone wants to stay near Union Square - a few hours and get Me Out of there!

"I don't know why everyone wants to stay near Union Square".

One reason is that it is frequently recommended on these boards.