I didn't make it through the entire post but I think from what I've read it tells exactly what will happen if and when you take your trip to Hawaii. There will be those folks who will be sympathetic if your kid screams all the way and there will be those who give you nasty stares, rude comments, etc. Hate to say it, but I'm never too thrilled to be sitting by screaming babies, least of all when I'm in first class. I'm kidless - and when you're not used to screaming kids, it's extremely unnerving to be sitting next to one for hours. I wouldn't tell people not to fly with kids -- I'm just telling you that there's those of us who don't handle it well. I now realize that this is my problem since there will always be people traveling with kids, so I now bring along a CD player with headphones and crank it up as loud as it goes when the kid starts screaming. My ears will ring for hours after the flight either way . . . .

Let's face it, parents are going to travel with their little ones and no amount of sniping, rude comments, dirty looks and "flaming" them is going to change it. You may not like flying with a child on board, but you can't control it. So why get all upset over something you can't change? If you really want to control who travels with you, perhaps you should seek alternative modes of transportation. <BR> <BR>And to all those who think flying with an infant/child on the same flight is a hardship. Try explaining that to someone in Mozambique, who lost their family and homes to the floods or a poor mother in India watching her children starve to death or to a factory worker in Mexico trying to support a family on 50 cents an hour. We are fortunate that we have the freedom and the means to travel. We should be grateful and thankful we are so blessed. There are others in this world that would love to change places with us. To those "flame throwers" on this board, show a little human decency and compassion will ya?

Really, people, the few hours that you're on a plane are such a small part of a trip! I do think parents should do all they can to make a baby comfy so he hopefully doesn't disturb others too much BUT babies are babies! <BR> <BR>We simply cannot control all things in life, and it's one of those things that, if you can't change it, accept it and be a decent person, remembering that you were once a baby too. <BR> <BR>I think one reason people are taking more trips with baby than their parents did is because their parents simply couldn't afford it - not that they were so much more sensible or considerate of other people. <BR> <BR>Also, if a crying baby on a plane is the worst thing that happens to you, you have a great life so get on with it and stop complaining!

My parents ALWAYS took their kids on every trip, but back then, we just all piled in the car and drove wherever we were going. Are parents supposed to leave their children at home now just because people fly places instead of packing up the family wagon? Babies are people and are going to travel - just like large people who take up too much room, old people who move too slowly, drunk people who are loud, boring people who want to tell your their life story, etc. Babies are the least of my worries. There is always going to be someone to inconvenience everyone and there is just no way to avoid that. I don't think parents are selfish for wanting to take their children everywhere they go. As much as people have to work today, it's important that they spend as much time as they can with their children. I am a step mom of three teenagers who has chosen not to bring anymore children into our family, but applaud those who choose to have a baby (or BABIES). Even though your child may cry in my ear, I like to see you spending your vacation time (or emergency family time or whatever)with your child instead of leaving baby behind - ESPECIALLY for a family reunion. Good luck Jeff & Court! All you mean people just kill me - you talk about the parents being selfish, but you're the ones worried about a baby ruining your good time??

Ruth says "You will note that in my post I did not call anyone a name" and then she goes on to say "to the *ignorant* comment you made about infants being ill-behaved, it is not possible for infants to misbehave." Oh yeah? No name calling? And infants can't misbehave? Come into any malls in America or onto any large airplane in flight and I can show you a swarm that are. Oh, and sweet Ruth who never calls anyone names or such ends with the equally sweet comment : "Sometimes that means sitting in the airline seat next to you." Be careful when you point a finger cause it may well point back at you.

No, John, infants do not misbehave. They do not understand what bad behavior is. Infants are incapable of reaching the seatback in front of them, so they are not the ones kicking you. When an infant screams, it is because there is a problem, not because they intentionally want to bother you. Do you know the difference between an infant and a toddler? When you learn it, come back and post your comments.

Wow! Just when I think you people can't get any worse....if you will check the Fodors title page about the Forums, it says, "please, no rudeness". Well, obviously, many of you missed that page, because I have never seen such rudeness. <BR> <BR>Those of you flying with your kids - do all you can for them, and try and be considerate parents. <BR> <BR>Everyone just try and be patient with one another. With behaviour like this, it's a wonder we don't have "sky rage" in addition to road rage. <BR> <BR>Why is it impossible for your people to share your opinions without lobbing insults, names, and vitriol?

If I had the money I'd start an enterprising business called "The Big Red Plane" just like Disney's successful "Big Red Boat" geared for family travel. It would be a plane that specialized in family travel and focused on activities/videos that would keep the young children entertained and be equipped with adequate baby changing areas and maybe "silent rooms" like they have in church for crying babies. I do know that there are alot of concerned parents out there that do their best to calm their baby instead of just letting the other passengers "deal with it". The question is: how many of you with kids would book this plane knowing that there were a ton of young'ns aboard?

Wow! I've been watching this one since the original message and beyond. And this one is a hot button, definately, as I've also seen on other boards. <BR> <BR>Basically, Jeff & Court asked for advice and Ruth, among others, gave it. But I don't think that is the crux here. There's a lot of hot opinions on babies/children traveling and we've all jumped in to give our opinions. And mine, despite the good advice given, is a solid NO! As so many others pointed out earlier, why, on the topic of traveling with babies, do so many parents jump in to say oh, ignore the others, travel with your baby if you want to? Don't worry if you upset or inconvenience others if that's what you want to do? No! No! No! <BR> <BR>I have had too many trips ruined by other peoples' children (babies and toddlers) to count. And since the infamous posting about the woman who wanted to take her 10 week old baby to London (see European board 10/99-11/99) I've canvassed friends on their opinions. And the consensus is DO NOT take your children on long-distance trips if they're not ready for it. We don't care what you want/need, when you're a parent it's your childrens' needs that count. <BR> <BR>What gets me is all the parents who get so defensive and say "oh, my life is not gonna change when I have a baby. I'm not gonna give up my pleasures." Well, no one (or no one reasonable) ever suggested giving up your pleasures. They only suggest adapting your traveling. Gee. I bet some of you defensive parents would be more willing to admit you've changed your lives more for a pet than a child! Since the US offers so many wonderful options for traveling with a child (and not just Disney World) I can see no reason for inserting a child in inappropriate places. <BR> <BR>And before you yuppy parents flame me for such a long message (yeah, I hear you, Ruth!) I did this totally on my own time on my own computer. Final word: parents, get a grip! <BR>

I just want to thank each and every one of you who were kind enough to take time out of your busy day to respond to my post..I should come clean though.. <BR> I'm really a senior at UCLA..and made a bet with my roomate that i could get more posts than he..last count 88..he has his work cut out for him!! Thinking what i'm going to do with the twenty bucks already!!! HAHAHAHA

That's a good one Jeff...that this whole thread you started was BS right from the beginning. You got Ruth on that one (BTW Ruth do you happen to really be named Naomi?). I did like one thing that was said above "We don't care what you want/need, when you're a parent it's your childrens' needs that count." I wish more parents would keep that in mind...it's not what THEY want that matters it's your own child's needs. Think about these children for once and how they need to have proper bedtimes and regular meals and consistency in their lives.

Jeff: Shame, oh, shame on you. Three things: 1) I suspected your post was phony because a) "Not to" then proceeding to, b) no "whole family" on the planet is capable of coordinating a trip of that magnitude, c) "next" April? 2000?, 2001?; 2) Your abuse of this forum is positively despicable. While an inquiry such as this one, particularly given the manner it was phrased, would surely generate debate - some of it heated - there were many (and all of us, all the time, must sift through for the valuable input) thoughtful, caring, people, who responded with sincere recommendations and advice, and you may have rendered them suspicious of every inquiry they read from now on; 3) I am amazed that you had the unmitigated gall to "fess up", but I'm even more amazed that you are a college senior - I cannot imagine how you have progressed that far with such a lack of spelling, punctuation, and grammar skills. To me, it is abhorent that you would prey on mostly well-meaning, helpful, people - just to win a stupid bet. So sad what you find funny... You've probably heard that what goes around comes around. As a young woman of 84, I can assure you that this is so. Hopefully, you are still quite immature for your age and will have an epiphany sooner rather than later. A very wise person said, "If you're not doing something important, then you are not important." Bet you $20 bucks you can't tell me who. So, (hahahaha), I guess you have your work cut out for you.

HooRahh for you Jeff. While you're wondering what to do with the twenty bucks (have you acually collected?), probably offset by a recent visit to the local gin mill, you can fall asleep tonite with the assurance that you're the lowest of the low. Ditto with the Shame On You!

I usually don't read posts that are so general, but had to see what all the excitement was about! I think it's pretty funny myself because people reacted in just the way Jeff predicted.The only thing that doesn't add up is that I find it hard to believe that a senior at UCLA posted, "Baby's on planes" instead of the correct, "Babies on planes".

Maybe if he'd gone to IOWA STATE he'd be able to spell . .. . hee, hee, hee

So what have we learned today, boys and girls? <BR> <BR>1. That there's a lot of hostility to travelling parents and children. <BR> <BR>2. That some people, even those without children, try to be helpful or at least tolerant. <BR> <BR>3. That people without children sometimes like to feel superior to those with children, and <BR> <BR>4. People with children like to feel superior to those without, and <BR> <BR>5. Semi-literate college-age children who enjoy wasting everyone's time by baiting people like to feel superior to everybody. <BR> <BR>The only uplifting part of this sad effort to cause trouble for a good joke is that some people genuinely tried to smooth the waters and offer help. <BR> <BR>To you and your roommate, Jeff: at least it was relatively harmless, and time will take care of your arrogance, I'm sure -- I'd love to know where and what you will be in a couple of decades. But meanwhile go find another forum for your guinea pigs next time. <BR>

I think Mom summed up the discussion pretty well, so I won't comment anymore on babies this time. However, I did want to comment on Jeff. Who cares? I have seen so many people post things like: "you really bit on this one." I don't have time to sit here and judge whether a post is sincere or not, and if the discussion is interesting, I don't really care. Just try not to do it too often Jeff because some people do care.

Great job! This far surpassed the college pranks I pulled in college 10 years ago. I only wish that I had internet access then! This is a HARMLESS prank - so everyone should lighten up! Hopefully people will continue to post responses so your roommate has a big challenge ahead of them. Keep up the good work! I look forward to more prank postings!

Nope, Pauline - really me, not Naomi - no bullshit names, no bullshit e-mails (like yours, as I tried to send this to you directly and it bounced back...), <BR>no bullshit advice. Bottom line - hoax or not, I responded with practical <BR>advice (as did many other people) for people who may be FORCED to go on places (like I had to for my <BR>mother's surgery), whether they want to or not. It was because my son did so <BR>well on the two trips we had to take for my mother's surgeries that made us <BR>decide to take him to meet his 92 and 96 year-old great-grandparents in <BR>Australia. We flew on Christmas eve, skipping christmas day and arriving in <BR>Sydney on the 26th. We chose that flight because (as I suggested to Jeff to do)the airline told us it would be the least crowded - they were right - there were a total of 8 people, including the three of us, in business class (we had lots of miles...). You will also note that I never suggested that parents ignore other people - that's just plain inconsiderate. My advice focused on being prepared (flying to COINCIDE with regular bedtimes, for example) and keeping your child comfortable, both of which are the best things you can do to guarantee a quiet, and happy flight for everyone on that plane.

Ruth, you still don't get it do you? This whole thread was a hoax! And I'm not just talking about Jeff Court either. You just keep right on trying to send everyone here a personal e-mail. <BR> <BR>Man, I'm still laughing!

Jeff: You are a bore. I can think of at least half a dozen other forums you could've gone to, at other websites, and gotten twice the number of responses in less than a day by simply posting something "controversial" and saying you've got a bet going on the number of responses you'll get. In fact, it could've been a topic you're actually interested in. In other words, you could've been honest and perhaps even learned something. Imagine.

No, people, the whole thread wasn't a hoax - only Jeff's message. Everyone (or just about everyone) gave honest answers, though some were more than helpful than others. There were some very good pieces of advice which may prove to be useful to some people that read these messages. I know I picked up some helpful tips for when I take my 11 month old to Florida next week. One question, how do you know that Ruth tried sending everyone personal emails? She only mentioned doing so once, to Pauline. Very interesting.

Yeah, I do get it. But, call me a sheep or call me naive, but I still have faith that there are honest, decent people out there. Obviously, you don't fall into that category. However, I AM pleased to have provided you with another afternoon of laughter at other people's expense. I hope that if/when you have children, you teach them to treat people better.

Ilisa, how do you know that every post here was "legitimate"? You can only speak for yourself. I can assure you that many were not. ;) <BR> <BR>Ruth, do you have the word "victim" tatooed on your forehead or something? You're incapable of posting anything without judgments and name-calling. Go ahead, post another self defensive, self pitying diatribe, and be sure to lecture everyone else. *Yawn* <BR> <BR>Jeff buddy, you should have bet more money!!

Does anyone else think that Jeff is a loser? Why is a 20 year old college kid in southern California doing this?

Hey, the more reponses we add to this thread, the more satisfaction Jeff will get. (Be glad you're not his friend and have to hear him boasting about his "grand" achievement.) Maybe somebody should start their own thread re this topic--or better yet, let it drop. (This is, after, a travel forum.)

Well, Truth, if YOU said it, it must be so! Guess it takes one to know one, huh? <BR> <BR>

Now Ruth, stop posting incognito here as "Truth" (Ruth, Truth?) and take your lumps! *snicker* <BR> <BR>The self righteous are SO ridiculous. It's hilariious.

I don't know when I've laughed so hard! This post gets funnier all the time! Jeff, you stuck a pin into some overinflated egos here and really set them off! They take themselves way too seriously to be able to handle it. <BR> <BR>I ought to send you another twenty bucks just for the laugh. Thanks. <BR> <BR>P.S. Settle down there "T/Ruth" . hehehehe

OK, people, perhaps not all posts were legitimate (such as yours?). However, I know the most useful ones are, such as Ruth's. She happens to be a good friend of mine - you should be so fortunate to have a person like her in your life. People like Dan Woodlief are regulars on this forum and have nothing but useful and helpful information to give. The ones that are not legitimate, in all likelihood, are those who don't have the courage to use their own names.

Oh how it wish it were me!! I for one have not laughed so hard in weeks. Thank you, "Truth", for your post. <BR> <BR>Sorry, guys, if the "Truth" hurts. I can take anything you can dish out - I just consider the source, and then get on with my life. Why don't you try it yourselves?

Old Ruth is someone who just HAS to have the last word, isn't she? Keep on baiting her and she keeps coming right on back! <BR> <BR>You're letting total strangers rile you up, manipulate and control your emotions and responses, and it's pretty darn funny. See, people ARE sheep! You lead, they follow.

I am SO RELIEVED to know that Ruth's son DID get to go visit for her mother's two surgeries and that Ruth's son DID get to see his 92 and 96 year old grandparents on Australia after all on Xmas eve!!!! I had been SO DAMN WORRIED about where Ruth and son were on Xmas that now I can finally sleep well knowing they were on a plane with only 8 other people (I think the other 260 jumped off when they saw Ruth and son coming down the aisle). Now what is that little darlings name and his favorite toy and his favorite TV show? I'm sure everyone is dying to know this Ruth.

Ruth/Truth/Ilisa: <BR> <BR>Hello, are you there? We all know you're one and the same person (and who knows how many others), no sense hiding any more! Oh wait. You're not at work right now are you, posting messages on your employer's dime! Guess we'll hear from you FIRST THING on Monday! <BR> <BR>Baaaaaaaahh!

I wouldn't doubt it People. Ruth will no doubt fill us in on her weekend events come Monday when she's busy at work

Ilisa - <BR>Rest assured I am a legitimate! Is Ruth's son?

OK OK THAT didn't work....I thought if I posted under jeff's name, and said this was just a joke it would STOP this tread..but it seems to have a life of its own,,,(sorry Jeff, slap me).. <BR> Although, I am a little surprized that not ONE person who posted after suggested that MY post was the hoax.. <BR> To you Martha, 84 huh? I just pray that I'm as full of spunk as you at 84. <BR> Hang in there!!!! <BR> <BR>

I think the hoax is Ruth and her so called child. I don't believe there is a Ruth cause if there was she would have told us what the kid wore today to school by now.

I was suspicious that the one who posted as 'Jeff Court' a few messages-up, claiming to be the UCLA senior who started this as a hoax was the one who was an imposter. Now it looks as though this has been confirmed, although we can never know, as ANYONE can CLAIM to be ANYTHING or ANYONE here. <BR> <BR>Didn't anyone else notice that the original poster was 'Jeff/Court', and the imposter was 'Jeff Court'?