My husband and I raised four children to adulthood without ever taking them on a plane until the youngest was seven...certainly not an infant. Then two years ago, we saved our money to be able to take a trip for our twenty-fifth anniversary to Hawaii. We were fortunate enough to be able to get first class, but paid a LOT for those seats. Since it was a special occasion we felt it would be worth it. A famous celebrity boarded our flight just as we were about to take off, with a screaming child who didn't want her seat belt fastened, didn't want to sit in her seat, didn't like the meal provided and played with hand-held children's games that 'beeped' or played music constantly and wouldn't turn down the sound. She kicked my husband's seat for four solid hours. When we complained to the flight attendants, they used the celebrity's name saying they couldn't do anything about it unless we wanted to change our seats...moving back into coach. We felt that was not really fair since we had paid many of our hard-earned dollars to be where we were. Nedless to say, our flight was anything but enjoyable. We arrived in Honolulu tired, disgusted and thoroughly fed up with the airline. Thankfully our return trip was fine. My advice to anyone planning such a trip is to sit way in the back of the plane...you can get up and move around and maybe the child could even get down on the floor there. Better yet, LEAVE 'EM HOME!

Gee, I seem to notice here that people who bring infants on flights and encourage others to do the same are the ones who are hurling insults at anyone who disagrees with them. Perhaps it's because they really can't defend the harm it causes the baby and the annoyance it causes everyone else, so they have to resort to name-calling instead. Let's see, because you don't care to have an uncomfortable, fussy infant on a flight to Hawaii, you're "bitchy" "rude" and "hatched from reptile eggs" according to some of these posters. Seems to me that the people who are discouraging infants on vacation flights, are in fact, the ONLY people who like and care about other human beings enough, including their own babies, to refrain from flying with them and subjecting everyone to it. They have manners, consideration for others and common sense where their infants are concerned. Can't say the same for those who insist on vacationing to island resorts with infants no matter what, and flying first class no less!

ROTFL at "Yes, I'm sure the baby will remember its trip to Hawaii and all the relatives it met well into its old age" <BR>answer. People such as the first person here and many of the others will never be considerate of others no matter what anyone says to them. When anyone points out to them that inflicting noise pollution on strangers is plain rude, they just say "oh, forget about what they say. Just do as you want". That's the problem with the USA I think. So many millions of people just doing whatever it is they want with no consideration whatsoever of other human beings. As they are strangers to you, you just say screw them and do whatever you please with no regard for civilized behavior.

Please leave the children at home... <BR>I really think that the whole selfish, rude attitude of couples dragging their children out in public is a generational thing. My parents generation (now in their 70's) would never have taken their children out in public until they could act in a proper manner, they employed people called "babysitters," what a concept! <BR>For some reason the people now in their 20, 30 & 40's seem to think that it is their God given right to take their babies out in public and not only disturb people like me (I chose not to have children), but run up my ankles with those damn baby strollers. We were in a museum in Greenwich, London yesterday and there was a couple with a screaming child - in a museum - what the hell is a 4 year old going to get out of the Royal Observatory? The screaming didn't affect the parents - they are used to it - I just don't get it...what a selfish generation.

In almost 50 years of parental experience, I've come to know that NO ONE thinks they know more about parenting than childless adults; and no one is more insufferable about it than someone who has made the conscious decision not to have children. <BR> <BR>Some of you remind me strongly of the time one of my older kids started to feel put-upon because a toddler was hungry and we interrupted a board game to fix a sandwich -- and she told us the toddler was "too selfish." Some others sound like the mad cook in Alice in Wonderland: "spank the baby when he sneezes/he only does it 'cause he knows it teases." <BR> <BR>It's a very tortured logic that says that parents are selfish in not leaving their children to others. And it's always amazing to me that people who know they will be bad parents want to brag about it and condemn those who take on the incredible task if it somehow inconveniences these only-children wannabe's. <BR> <BR>Don't you hear yourself when you tell us that your parents would never have taken children places and then say you plan not to have children yourself? <BR> <BR>I get as annoyed as anyone when I see a child acting up or crying in misery and the parents are passive or clueless; but that doesn't lead me to conclude that all children are vermin and all parents are second-class citizens. <BR> <BR>Selfish? Let's not throw that term around too easily -- it bounces back like a rubber ball. <BR>

Ginny, I have to agree with you. My generation for some reason thinks it perfectly fine to bring their kids everywhere they go. What ever happened to babysitters? I made alot of money during my teen years. There was a distinction between adult time and child time. Now it is all the same. Sure bring your kid out to a restaurant at 10 at night, yes, thats normal. Take them grocery shopping at 9 at night, sure, why not? Take them to a R-rated movie, and the late show, why not, they'll (hopefully) sleep through it, and if they don't we'll just let them wander in the aisles, till they get tired. Drag them around to do your errands, yup, they love that too. Jeff, you don't say where you're flying from originally to go to Maui. I realize that it may be a tough decision, considering you will be meeting with family. People from my office just got back from Hawaii and were complaining how long the flight was. I'm not sure flying first class is the answer. Can't tell you what to do, but if it was me, I'd leave my child home with someone I'd trust with my life, and go by myself.

Wow, indeed. My husband and I are the no-child, eye-rolling, "please don't let that baby sit near me" traveling couple. We've had crying babies and kicking toddlers on flights to Hawaii as well as around the continental US. <BR> <BR>But, we've also had no room in our overhead bin due to adults with too much carry-on, folks who want to talk too loud, really the whole gamut. How about the fully reclined seat in your lap? <BR> <BR>The destination is always worth the journey, and so far we've always got there safely. The rest, well, it just makes for more stories we can share with our friends when we're having a travel horror story exchange. <BR> <BR>Jeff, if you're on my flight to HI, I sure hope you can keep your baby happy and quiet. If not, well, I'm still going to Hawaii, I'll just make the best of it! Besides, I'll have my CD player and earplugs. <BR> <BR>Enjoy your trip. Everybody, that is, and keep those hot travel opinions coming, I enjoy every one!

Well, I have flown to Hawaii from the East Coast but not with children. Yeah, its a long trip. If you want to take the baby, take the baby. My own thoughts if it were me, would be about the purpose of the trip. If I was going to lie in the sun and do all the normal Hawaii stuff, I would find a baby sitter if I could. If I were going to sort of a family reunion, and some of the family might not see the baby otherwise, I would likely take the baby. Just my opinion, but it is your choice. I am curious though as to how you will fare in first class though compared to coach. Please let us know how it goes if you do take the baby. It would seem that you could be more comfortable and have more space to take care of the baby, but I suspect what someone else said may be correct, in that some who bought expensive first class tickets may resent having a baby near them. Have a great trip, whatever you decide.

All I see over and over are people who bring infants along advising others to do it too. Just bring it if that's what YOU WANT, they say. <BR> <BR>Well, you know what I WANT? I want to kick the back of your airline seat for four hours. I want to scream and cry in your face because I'm wedged in a seat and my ears hurt too. I'm awake when I should be asleep, so I'm going to keep you awake too, preferably with as much noise as possible. That's MY RIGHT and it's what I WANT, so I'm just going to do it. Any of you who don't like it can get a life, get real, get over it, lose the attitude, go to hell. You probably hate people anyway. I'm going to do it no matter what you think, say or do, because it's what I WANT!! <BR> <BR>Sound familiar?

It is very disconcerting how petty people can be - criticizing for a grammatical error! I have traveled extensively, Europe, Hawaii, within the United States. I have never been irritated by a screaming child or perhaps I ignored it since it is a child. What I have found more irritating is the ADULT travelers. Last fall I flew to Hawaii first class and could not believe how rude the ADULT passengers were to the flight attendents. On our return flight we sat next to a couple bringing their newly adopted infant daughter home from Korea. She was an angel on the flight and they had traveled from Korea to San Francisco and then Chicago. Had this couple followed the advice of the ignorant narrow minded people on this website they would have never even thought of being "selfish" and flying home with their daughter. <BR>

I think the key things to remember when travelling with little ones are: <BR>1) There are going to be jerks around you. Try to be empathetic of others, even if they aren't empathetic toward you. <BR>2) You and the baby may not be all that comfortable on the flight, but it will greatly shorten the "getting there and back", and thus; in my book, is DEFINITELY the way to go. <BR>3) You can't control what you can't control...babies cry and babies poop and do all sorts of ugly stuff. But you CAN do your homework...call the airlines and talk to them about their changing facilities, food, etc. Take a look at how your baby works...is s/he better driving longer distances in the car in the daytime or at night? This might give you a better idea of when to fly... <BR>4) Bring a big back full of snacks,and NEW toys and books that s/he hasn't seen before, as well has her favorite familiar snuggly (or two). <BR>5) When all else fails, be prepared to sing your child a little cutesy song. Right in public! No matter how bad you are ;^) the baby will respond, and you may get even get some positive (or at least empathetic) comments from those around you...when you stop the baby from crying, you'll feel like the king of the world, and everyone around you will be praising your fine parenting skills! <BR>

Why is it seemingly just not possible for the pro-baby-on-vacation-flight people to make a logical argument for it instead of calling everyone else names? NOW the people who disagree with them are "ignorant" "narrow-minded" "petty" and "jerks." Perhaps if you filled your posts with common sense reasons why the parents should inflict air travel on their infants and fellow passengers (all in the name of a VACATION), you might actually convince someone of your point. Oh wait, you don't HAVE any points, do you? That's why you have to stoop to name-calling.

I would really like to meet the infant whose legs are long enough to kick the seatback in front of him. Anyway, by the reasoning of the people on this forum, I should never take my child, who is 11 months old, on a plane. So, in order that I satisfy the desires of whiny, childles people, I should deprive my grandfather the pleasure of seeing his great-grandaughter when we go to Florida next month (and yes, we are also going to be on vacation). Talk about selfish.

When my daughter was about a year and a half, I did take her on a plane flight of about 5 1/2 hours. My suggestion would be to make sure your baby has something to drink or suck on during takeoff and landing. My daughter was fine during our flight. In fact, she slept for a portion of it, which normally did not happen at home. My sister-in-law used to have to travel frequently with her young son on an airplane and had good success with the above method. If your baby does cry, warm, moist compresses(bring a washcloth) to the ears might help. Check with your pediatrician for other recommendations ahead of time. Good luck! I hope you have a great vacation!

I am a pro-taking-babies person and do have logical argument for taking my child on airplanes. I am not a "self-centered baby boomer" whose child has "inconvenienced" my life. My child has been the greatest blessing I have ever experienced, and I gladly made and continue to make the changes that are required in my life to be a good parent. <BR> <BR>Far from being self-indulgent, I am a hard-working parent with family spread all over the world. I am Ilisa's friend who went to Australia at Christmastime with a then-seven-month old. We took my son to see his great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins who just happen to live 14,000 miles away. Sorry - I just couldn't get there in my car. <BR> <BR>Just because my husband and I started a family does not mean that we should spend the next eighteen years in our home, or travelling without our son. He has been on 10 airplane trips so far, and, with the exception of one trip when we sat on the runway for three hours before taking off, he was a smiling, happy, and mostly sleeping child. Two of these trips (four legs) were unplanned, last-minute trips for a family members' surgery. As my husband works, too, leaving the baby home was not an option, as many of the contributors might suggest I should have done. <BR> <BR>Shame on all of you who believe that you are entitled to a "cone of privacy" on airplanes or any other form of PUBLIC transportation. As many contributors to this forum has pointed out, there are just as many adults who are unpleasant to travel with/near as there are children. Children are people, just smaller. Some people you like, some you don't. It's just that simple. However, until the technology exists to "beam" us from one place to another, we will have to put up with other people, on planes, on busses, on trains, and, sadly, on this forum. <BR> <BR>I have attached both my name and my e-mail address, as I am not afraid to attach my name to my opinions. And they are just that, my opinions. You do not need to share them, just respect my right to have them, even if they are different from yours. <BR> <BR>Jeff, in response to your request for help, my recommendations are that you do the following: <BR>1. Check with your pediatrician first and foremost. Do ask about baby Tylenol and a decongestant - we usually administer both about 1/2 hour before take-off. Also, stock your diaper bag with any mediacations you think you MIGHT need on your trip. Our travel daiper bag includes: Baby Tylenol, Mylicon (for gas), Baby Orajel (for teething), Baby Sudafed (decongestant), as well as a nasal aspirator, baby nail clippers, a medicine dropper, and a thermometer (you can buy "nursery kits" at baby stores - we just got an extra and take it with us when we travel). <BR>2. Pre-board. Many airlines have stopped this practice - if your airline (United is one I know about) does not, ask to pre-board when you check in at the gate <BR>3. Bring a collapsable, "unbrella" stroller - you can usually wheel it right on the plane <BR>4. If you can, do get a seat for your child and bring his/her car seat. Everyone has a more comfortable ride if the child has their own seat, and it is much safer for the child if they are strapped in - also, you will need your car seat on the other end, and they will be in a comfortable, familiar seat <BR>5. Try and fly mid-day, mid-week. These flights tend to be less crowded, and tend to have more families, rather than business people, flying. <BR>6. ZIPLOCS - bring lots of them to collect trash, used washcloths, used spoons, wet/soiled clothing, etc. <BR>7. WIPES - bring lots of them, too. They are good for cleaning up everything from spilled food to the seat belt buckle that they baby insists on putting in his mouth. <BR>8. Bring twice as many diapers as you would normally go through in the time period you will be travelling. Also, we travel with Depends undergarments (not the briefs, but the large sized pads) to use on top of public changing tables, as they are not always the cleanest. The Depends are the perfect size, and you can put them on top of your own changing pad, and throw them out with each change/if they get soiled. <BR>9. If your child is still nursing, your wife should plan to nurse on take-off and landing, or, if you're forumla-feeding, plan to give a bottle on take-off and landing (you can give a bottle of pumped milk, too, of course). <BR>10. If your child has started solids, bring 2-3 extra jars of food with you, and bring plastic, disposable spoons. Also, the One Step Ahead catalog sells disposable bibs - we didn't have them when we went to Australia, but wish we did. Do keep in mind that feeding will be a two-person job - one parent to hold, the other to feed. <BR>11. Don't go overboard on the toys, etc, that you bring - they do sleep for most of the trip, and when they're awake, are actually more fascinated with the plane and things like the safety information card than they are with their own toys. I would say bring one special toy (we brought my son's teddy), one old favorite, and one new one, plus a couple of books. Do be careful, though, that you don't lose the favorite toy in your travels - we have a duplicate hidden at home just in case. <BR>12. Change diapers as a team. Check ahead of time to make sure the airline you're flying has changing tables in the bathrooms. When we went to Sydney, I would stand in the bathroom with the baby, and my husband would stand in the doorway behind me and do things like hand me wipes, take the soiled diaper away, etc, so I could change my little "octopus" as quickly and safely as possible. <BR>13. Keep your sense of humor. Understand that there are some people who will be understanding, some who will not, and that who falls into which category is out of your control. Focus on your wife and your child, on making everyone as comfortable as possible, and try and remember the reason you are going - to be with family. Your baby is the newest member of your family, and the first of your family with your wife - your new nuclear family. He/she has just as much of a right to travel as done anyone else. <BR> <BR>Best of luck, Jeff. I hope you have a wonderful trip. Please don't hesitate to contact me directly with any other questions about your trip or travels. It would be a pleasure to help you out. <BR> <BR>Ruth

I have been on plenty of flights were adults have been more obnoxious than kids or infants. Lets not make generalizations here, just as you shouldn't make generalizations about other groups of people. Not all infants cause problems on every flight. My sons have been flying since they were 6 months old. If the parents are responsible, & keep the children occupied there is not a problem. We have been fortunate enough to fly in 1st class a few times & Jeff/Court it is more relaxing for you & therefore it helps you keep the infant from being an anoyance to others. Sometimes(not always)(many are parents themseleves who are away from there children) a flight attendant will also help when the need arises. & being a parent myself, I will also offer to help a parent that might need help in keeping a child occupied. We did not like using a pacifier for our infants, but when flying, they did use them & it most definetly helped on equalizing air pressure in the ears. Some people do not have the option of leaving the infants home with somebody, being far away from relatives. Although we did not take our infants on every trip, we did take them on many, & made sure we did the responsible things to not disturb other passengers. Again 1st class makes you more comfortable & therefore the infant is more comfortable & happier, but make sure that you take care of your infant's needs before yours (food, diaper change,playing)so as not to annoy other passengers. It can be trying for the parents as well as other passengers, but it can also be a pleasure if you keep things right & in perspective

I applaud Ruth for finally coming up with the answers that Jeff was looking for. I do not have any children and I have flown on trips that are almost 24 hours in length. I have flown on flights that have children who seem to cry the whole way. I have also flown with children like my niece who was the perfect little passenger and whose biggest transgression was standing up in the seat to see what the other pasengers were doing. I think that parents who bring young children on trips do so because it cannot be helped and are usually on family emergencies. I usually tune out crying children especially when I know that their parents have been doing their darn best to keep them quiet. This is not to say that I don't get irritated either. I certainly would not like to see them in an expensive restaurant, at a movie rated "R" or at museum geared to an dult audience. There are parents out there who will bring their children even to inappropriate venues but at the same time there are parents who need to bring their young children with them. Don't jump to the conclusion that all parents are selfish. Someday it might be you in the same situation. How would you like it if in the future, the young adults would start saying that the older people should not travel because they take too long to move around or they snore, etc.

To those of you who called Jeff and others names, shame on you! This is an informational forum, not a mudslinging, name calling free for all. This is not the place for that type of forum. If you disagree with traveling with children, please do so respectfully! <BR> <BR>As for people flying with children, airplanes are a form of PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!!! If you do not like who flies on the same flight as you, perhaps you should charter a private plane. Then you can control who sits next to you. I would much rather sit next to an infant than an obnoxious, farting, belching, drunk, loud-mouthed adult who thinks way too highly of themselves.

Yes, someone with all of Jeff's resources (family reunion in Maui, first class flights, etc..) should indeed consider chartering a flight. That way he'll have all the room in the world and won't have to worry about annoying anyone at all. <BR> <BR>As far as name-calling, the people who have infants and insist on bringing them seem to be doing the majority of the mudslinging here. Go back and take a look at these posts. It just doesn't occur to these people that everyone around them isn't totally enamoured of their "greatest gifts" -- their offspring -- particularly when the little "gifts" are ill-behaved, as so many are. <BR> <BR>And why do these people keep insisting that anyone who doesn't agree with them is childless? Again, go back and read the posts. Some parents are simply trying to be CONSIDERATE of other people by leaving their little ones at home. Americans are more obsessed with their so-called "rights" than consideration of others. <BR> <BR>One final note -- some parents seem to have the MOST time to post the LONGEST messages here! Perhaps all that net time could be better spent teaching the kids how to behave.

Susan, <BR> <BR>As my reply was the longest, I can only assume that your nasty comment about spending time teaching my child how to behave was directed at me. You will note that in my post I did not call anyone a name, nor did I make assumptions about the status (childless or not) of those who disagree with me. <BR> <BR>As I indicated, airplanes are public transportation and children, like it or not, are part of the public. When I travel with my child, I am extremely considerate. I look for and take the least crowded flights (as you will see that I counseled Jeff to do), and do everything possible to make my child as comfortable as possible, which necessarily makes for a more pleasant trip for everyone. <BR> <BR>Just because someone is a parent does not mean that they must stay in their homes 24 hours a day, seven days a week. <BR> <BR>As I said before, and many have said above, there are many badly behaved children, and many badly behaved adults. That's part of life. <BR> <BR>As to your comment about the amount of time I spent composing my message to Jeff, I provided him with the experience I wish someone had shared with me the first time I had to fly with my son for an emergency operation my mother was having. I spent the time so that hopefully he and his family, and any other families out there reading, could benefit and, hopefully, make the trip more pleasant for EVERYONE on that plane, as it is when families travel prepared. <BR> <BR>I did not appreciate your mocking the fact that I called my son my greatest blessing - he is indeed, and I only hope for you that you find such happiness in your life. <BR> <BR>Finally, to the ignorant comment you made about infants being ill-behaved, it is not possible for infants to misbehave. If they cry, it is because they have a need - they are hungry, tired, scared, or wet. They do not cry to ruin your vacation, or to get attention. They do it because they have a need. <BR> <BR>I only wish that I had the means to charter my own planes. However, for the moment I am just another working mom out here trying my best to meet the needs of my son, my husband, and my parents the best way I can. Sometimes that means sitting in the airline seat next to you.

I have often spoken for the right of people to travel with their babies/children, and I have never accused anyone of being stupid for thinking otherwise. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have thought that some of the posts were pretty mean spirited, and I wish people would give their real e-mail addresses when posting, but on to the discussion. There are several basic reasons for people to be able to travel with babies on planes: <BR> <BR>In no particular order: <BR>(1) Sometimes they just have to, and it beats the heck out of subjecting a baby to a three-day car ride (not even an option for Hawaii) - what would you say if someone lived in Hawaii, had three children under 5 (maybe even triplet babies), and the rest of their family lived on the mainland - should they not see the family for years? - should everyone come to visit them instead? <BR> <BR>(2) Families should spend time together, and people need to take vacations to experience the world and to take a breather from the work world; some people want to do both at once or just have nobody to keep the baby. Yes, people have to make sacrifices when they have children, but you can't ask them to give up travel or anything else they really love, if they really don't have to. <BR> <BR>(3) It is just simply their right to do so. I am a big believer in people being allowed to do what they want if it does not harm others. A crying baby on a flight might make it harder for me to sleep, but I just deal with it. It does not harm me. I recognize it is what babies do, and just do the best I can. I am far more bothered by rude adults on flights, since they can help it. I do agree with those, however, who say that parents often don't monitor their children enough. If someone does what they can to keep their children/babies from bothering me, that is all I have a right to ask. I do not question why they have the children with them because it is none of my business. The argument that someone else used about this being public transportation also fits under this point. It is no different than a city bus with wheels, when you look at what a plane basically does. <BR> <BR>Finally, just let me say that I have flown quite a lot, on business trips, trips home to visit, and trips abroad, and have used many different airlines. I have never encountered even one baby that bothered me. The only people I have ever encountered on a flight that I even remember were a teenage boy and teenage girl going to Europe together. They talked and played the whole way and kept me from getting any sleep. Did I complain? No, I just did my best, and when I got to Europe I had a great time. If we all learned to relax a little more, all the air and road rage that we hear about these days would decline, and we would all be happier people. Think about it. You only live once (unless you believe in reincarnation of course), and why spend your whole life complaining over such small things.

I meant to say a "city bus with wings," not a "city bus with wheels." I think they all have wheels, except for of course Venetian taxis and city buses on the Jetsons.

<BR>I would recomend earplugs. I use them at home to reduce the noise from my neighbors barking dogs. They're inexpensive and light to carry. Maybe the airlines should provide them to passengers when requested.

Wow! One of the first messages here was at least partially correct. Lots of defensive, self-righteous people around here. Why get so worked up? Guilt? Follow your own advice people, and ignore everyone who disagrees with you! <BR> <BR>I for one didn't this Susan referring to anyone else by name on this board, but I do have a question -- if someone is at work is that the reason they have time to post long messages here? And to keep checking back on them? I find that amusing, but then again, I'm not the employer of these people. <BR> <BR>I think this forum is an interesting place for people to discuss topics with no holds barred. The things I've read here are things that very few people would ever say to someone in public, but you gain an insight as to what people are really thinking and feeling. I don't think people deliberately try to annoy others during flights, but rather they are just not aware of how their actions affect others. <BR> <BR>I've traveled extensively and found Americans to be the kindest, most considerate, most helpful nation of people I've ever encountered. That American passenger with the screaming baby would probably give you the shirt off his back if you were in trouble. You don't find that in many places -- behavior like that is considered foolish and naive -- so I'll take the good with the bad as far as Americans are concerned. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Ricki, <BR> <BR>I took the time to post my first message, as I indicated to Susan, in an attempt to provide helpful information to Jeff and to anyone else travelling with children. I did this to make his life more pleasant, as well as the lives of those who are travelling on planes with him. <BR> <BR>As to your comment about my having time to do this BECAUSE I am at work, you will be interested to know that I have a progressive employer who allows parents to work a flexible schedule, and I am not currently on the clock. So yes, I do have time to post long messages, and keep checking back on them, as it is my perrogative to do on my day off. <BR> <BR>I really cannot believe the meanness that has come through in so many of these messages. A guy asked for some tips. He asked for help. And what he got in return was judgements and spite. What a shame.

Ruth, since you seem to believe that everyone here is addressing you directly, I WILL address you directly: get over you victimhood here. Nobody wants to read every detail of your life on some message board. Who cares? This isn't the Life of Ruth forum. <BR> <BR>Dan W. has made some reasonable (if very long-winded) comments here. Examine the reasons for the travel and figure out if it's worth it to you to put yourself, your infant and other travelers through a flight. The airlines cram so many people into such small spaces that no one can truly relax or enjoy a flight. It's just something to get through.

JG, <BR> <BR>Sorry if you think I'm taking up more than my fair share of airtime - this forum is public, and anyone can post as often as they like. <BR> <BR>Contrary to your opinion, I don't feel at all like a victim. I fell like I am one of very few people who actually answered Jeff's question about what to do when travelling with infants. The fact that I did so, and at length, seemed to irritate a number of people who took issue with the fact that I sent a long post, and questioned my work ethic. I took issue with Susan's comments because they mocked language directly from my post. <BR> <BR>My point here is that I would like to stop the acrimony on this post. That's not its purpose. Jeff asked a question. I answered it, as did a few other well-meaning folks. No one has to agree with me, just, as I said in my original post, respect my right to have a different opinion than yours, or someone else's. <BR> <BR>No where in my original post did I call anyone a name, make assumptions over parental status, or indicated that this forumm was about me. I simply tried to help out a father looking for tips from other parents. <BR> <BR>We agree that Dan W. had some very good points. Let's agree to disagree about babies on planes, and leave it at that. <BR> <BR>Had you shared your e-mail address, I would have welcomed the opportunity to engage in a private dialogue with you on this matter. However, since you didn't, we'll have to keep it here. <BR> <BR>I only wish that everyone would read Dan's post again, and realize that this is not one of those things to get worked up about. Cancer, death in the family, divorce - those are things to get worked up about, not this. <BR> <BR>I hope everyone has a pleasant rest of the day, and takes some time to focus on the important things this evening.

Ruth, just a word of advice here: you're allowing yourself to be baited. Don't take the bait. I've watched people in my office post on message boards and deliberately try to rile some of the more serious people there, all the while laughing their heads off because people are taking their bait. <BR> <BR>Just a heads up for next time.

The obnoxious adults I've encountered on planes were those who were ignoring/indulging their obnoxious kids. It's multi-generational. Make your older kid behave, anticipate your baby's needs, and that's all anyone can ask of you. People don't hate kids, they hate irresponsible, lackadaisical parenting. <BR> <BR>P.S. Ruth should heed her own advice about not getting worked up! No one else is posting their autobiographical novels here, complete with lectures, sermons and tortured defenses. *Yawn* My guess is that people omit their e-mail addresses precisely in order to avoid contact from overly-intense people like her. <BR> <BR>Fodor's needs to do a little editing here.

To those traveling by air: <BR>In addition to infants/children that are annoying, the following are also annoying in my opinion: overweight people (taking over my seat), laptop users (the noise drives me bonkers) golfers (I don't really care what your handicap is, and I don't want to listen to it for 2 hours.) women who don't shave their arms and legs (nuff said)denture wearers (must you click your teeth) drunks, excessive talkers, people who chew gum, men who think they are God's gift to women and women who are ugly and think they are God's gift to men. People who think they are better than the rest of us. Jesse Jackson. Bill and Hillary. People who think they have money and brag about it. Tall people (I can't see the movie through their head) Bald people, (the glare from their head annoys me) And, I hope I never have to sit next to a b**** like Susan on a flight. God help me!

Luke, and anyone else who advises medicating kids for a flight: Please be aware that not all kids get zonked on Benadryl or any other antihistamine. Some of them have a nasty tendancy to develop what we call "paradoxical hyperactivity" on antihistamines. If you plan to premedicate your kid with any drug before you get on a plane, please try the drug out at home before you subject an entire plane to an episode of "paradoxical hyperactivity". I've seen it and it isn't pretty.

Whoa! Remind me never to piss off anyone on this forum! First you teaf into Jeff for being lucky enough to be able to fly first class to Hawaii, then you spend the afternoon tearing Ruth a new one. <BR> <BR>If you look, you'll see that what people are complaining about most is parents who don't prepare, and children whose behaviour is reflective of that. <BR> <BR>Jeff was trying to be prepared so his kid wouldn't bother other travelers, that's why he asked his question in the first place. <BR> <BR>You people are merciless. Who raised you?

Let's face it -- people don't like it when *other people* inflict their lives on them. Period. Everyone wants peace and privacy. Everyone buys as much land and as much house as they can afford in order to get as far away as possible from their neighbors. They move from cities, to suburbs, to rural areas. They build fences. They look for alternate routes to work in order to avoid other cars. Everyone is trying to get away from everyone else. <BR> <BR>People fly first class in order to get away from as many other people as possible. You don't think they're paying all that money just for a little more leg room do you? It's the fewest number of people in the plane. One more person, baby or not, is not going to matter. Jeff's trying to learn how to make his baby and fellow passengers comfortable. He sounds like a new parent. His reasons for bringing the baby seem pretty logical. So what's the big deal? <BR> <BR>People who hurl insults and call others names here, I suspect, are probably the parents of the types of kids everyone else complains about. That's where they learn it.

I cant believe how obnoxious some of these comments are. People have every right to bring babies on planes!!!!! SO WHAT if the baby cries, coos, whatever its nobody elses business. What do you people do if someone snores, burps, or whatever on the plane, its none of your business!

Just for the record, I did not address anyone specifically, but apparently some felt the shoe fit -- so wear it! <BR> <BR>If more parents spent time actually parenting instead of posting sanctimonious lectures on message boards all day, everyone would benefit.

Hi Jeff C: <BR> <BR>I have a proposal for you *wink* If you'll take my husband and me along with you to Hawaii we promise to sit behind you in first class and be the most understanding, helpful, kid-loving fellow passengers you've ever met! <BR> <BR>Just kidding -- although my hubby really IS the most kid-loving passenger you'll ever meet. He will make faces back at them, giggle with them, shoot rubberbands, play their video games, you name it. I've had to restrain him in restaurants several times from encouraging kids to be too rambunctious, especially when it was obvious that their parents were trying to teach them how to behave in a public place (not letting them stand on seats and bother the people around them, etc...) He's a big kid himself, and kids love him. <BR> <BR>I hope you get someone like him to sit near you. There ARE some out there!

Well we are sorry we started such an uproar....(I know I'm being graded on my spelling so I'll try and type more slowly and have Court double check it......NOT!!!)... <BR>First off I appreciate all of the posts...all of them, but we really just intended to solicit advice from others who have witnessed/experienced babIES in flight. How did the parents handle them? Helpful suggestions for keeping them busy etc....so once again we thank you for the helpful advice. <BR>It is a family reunion where all of my great grandparents, aunts, uncles will be there so it is very important to take our baby...(thanks....we realize the baby won't remember but, the rest of my family will, including some that might not see him/her again due to their age) <BR>You people who think we are bringing the baby to "roast" in the sun are seriously challenged. I won't even respond to that. The reason why I said I was flying first class was because I had got some feedback from other that coach was just as good if we bought an extra seat. Prior to contrary belief it wasn't meant to impress. (Actually I just won the LOTTO...hahahah just kidding) <BR>We have decided to bring our child to Maui and we hope to have an uneventful and peaceful flight. Again, we greatly appreciate all of the posts. Hopefully we will be sitting near the nice people...bye for now

Hey Jeff, know what? You WILL be seated next to nice folks, because you seem like a nice, considerate person yourself. You're taking time to learn about how infants fare on planes and will no doubt be a prepared, considerate, thoughtful dad. Even the grumpiest have a hard time being angry at someone who is sincerely thoughtful and kind, and you seem to be both. You will win them over! Have a great time.

Hello, <BR> I read your message on the Fodor's page about your worries over flying with your 10 month old child. <BR>We live in England and love travelling to Florida. We have a young son who is just over three years of age. <BR>He has already been with us twice , the first time he was just over 10 months old and the second time just under the age of 2. <BR>Now Florida is about an 8 hour flight for us and we travel in Economy Class. <BR>Believe me if we can fly all this way then so can you, particularly as I have a Fear Of Flying and always will have. There seems to have been some very negative feedback to your message. <BR>From experience I would say that travelling with a young baby is easier than it would be with say a three or four year old, because at that age they are much more aware of their environment, are more active and much more likely to be restless during the long flight. <BR> <BR>We felt exactly the same way as you do before we took Joshua to Florida at the tender age of 10 months and nearly cancelled our vacation because of it but in the end he was fine. He slept for over 4 hours on the way there and even more so on the flight back. Sometimes you just have to cope the best you can and just get on with it, and I certainly would not even consider thinking about other passenger's feelings. You have every right to be there just the same as they have, you paid for your ticket after all! <BR>Plus once you are on your way all of your attention will be focused on your child and you will not care what else is going on around you. <BR>If anyone else has a problem with this , tough! They are the uncaring ones not you. <BR> <BR>Pack a few of your child's favourite toys in your Hand Luggage as well as at least two changes of clothes. Remember it can get quite cold on the plane. Plus the usual Food requirements etc <BR> <BR>I have talked enough for now if you have any other questions please e-mail me. <BR>

It’s amazing how babies on planes can make people so uptight! Such little creatures to have such power! I don’t have kids myself, and I’m not at all fond of babies, in any place, but life is a process of give and take, wherever we are, whatever we do, whomever we're with. If people "took" with some awareness and gratitude and people "gave" with some understanding and grace, the world would be a better place. Maybe that’s idealistic, but people, it all comes out in the wash. We're not here that long. Let's try to be good to one another. Maybe the person with the noisy kid won't appreciate your generosity, but the attitude you bring to such a situation can come around back to you in other ways. Then it's your turn to "take." <BR> <BR>As for Jeff, the only thing I'd be concerned about is the baby's ears, a topic others have discussed. Obviously you're aware that traveling with a baby can be problematic and are willing to seek advice to lessen the problem. I'd be happy to have your family sitting next to me on a plane. Like anybody else, I don't appreciate neglectful parents; but you don't sound neglectful. <BR> <BR>I've had kids making noise next to me in planes--sometimes with attentive parents and sometimes not--and so far, it's never lasted a lifetime. (Not even the dreaded "kicks in the kidneys through the seat" have been endless.) If the plane is still up in the sky, and taking me safely to where I'm going, I'm happy. (Why tempt fate with complaints about the little things?) I don't demand the right to a perfectly peaceful plane ride because that’s ridiculous. This is life, not "Shangrila." The very worse situations I’ve seen with kids on planes have involved lone kids, doing the holiday journey from one parent to another (the ex-spouses), sitting real quiet and looking unhappy. One little boy nearly broke my heart; he was impossible to cheer up. I would rather have had him screaming into my ear with delight over anything than being so still and looking so miserable. <BR> <BR>As a final word, I recently read a magazine article in which a doctor suggested doing the following if an infant is have problems with air pressure on a plane. First, you take two plastic cups and pack a warm damp paper towel into the bottom of the cups; put over baby's ears to form a seal; then put pacifier in baby's mouth. The warmth and sucking should clear the ears and can even save a baby's eardrums from rupturing in a worst-case scenario. The doctor had helped a baby on a plane with this technique. (For older kids, simply sucking on a lollipop can help with pressure.) Maybe this tip will be useful for you to keep in mind, Jeff; or for anyone else taking an infant on a plane. <BR> <BR> <BR>