Please ignore all the rude people. In first class the center arm rest comes out easily on some airlines. I would remove it and put our infant son there to sleep. You will have enough leg room to put a carrier on the floor as well. Changing a baby is a joke...keep a sense of humor. I found a great tip was not only to bring a change of clothes for the baby but bring an extra shirt that will fit you or your wife in case the baby spits up. I found several cloth washcloths helpful. Backpacks make the most sense since you will be carrying the baby. Bring plenty of diapers and wipes as getting stuck on a runway for hours is not unheard of. We took our son everywhere when he was an infant. At about 18 months it became no vacation as they can walk and want to run and don't sleep as much. We resumed traveling at 3.5 years. If the baby does scream walk around if allowed and go back by the engines as they might lull it to sleep. I found so many nice people when flying and never had a problem. I would rather have a baby on board than that man that was on the Alaskan Air flight 3/16/2000 that was raging in the aisles saying he was going to "kill everyone" and then broke open the door to the cockpit and attacked the co-pilot. Several passengers jumped him and tied him up till they were able to land. Saw it on the news tonight. I also found when traveling with an infant it is useful not to make a schedule and go with the babies schedule. Have a great time in Hawaii. Since you are with a group...perhaps some of the nieces will be able to baby sit so you could get one night out. I just prefered to order room service at night and have a big lunch. This worked for us. You may e-mail me directly if you like.

Has anyone noticed here that whenever someone travels with an infant they advise others who wish to do the same to "ignore everyone else" and just do whatever they please? Herein lies the problem -- people who have absolutely no consideration for anyone except themselves. This is precisely the reason you receive the type of responses you do here -- you are obviously too selfish and immature to be traveling, much less raising children. You and your offspring are nothing but a burden to the rest of society. When you grow up and learn to consider others and understand your responsibilites as parents, you will be more welcome.

You are *so right* james when you say "whenever someone travels with an infant they advise others who wish to do the same to "ignore everyone else" and just do whatever they please? Herein lies the problem". This is *so right*!!! I wish I could write it in letters 50 feet high here. They all say "ignore the other people" and just haul that screaming kid everywhere. And the *worst* of *all* is on an airplane where everyone is *trapped* for hours with these screaming meemies! And their so called parents who have no idea what it is to be civilized and polite in this society. No manners and no concern at *all* for anyone else in this world but *themselves*. Why else think strangers should be happy to listen to piercing loud howls for hours?

Jeff/Court, <BR> <BR>Actually noname, ilisa and Kathy gave you helpful information as your intial post asked "what you would suggest people to do when travelling with infants." I may add to check with your pediatrician as he/she may have more definitive and helpful information. <BR> <BR>The forum is not anti-child. Think if you posted without using phrase: "Not to start/bring up a sore subject..." you may have found more helpful replies.

"Not to start.." but you go ahead and do it anyway? That's just what people with babies do. They know they baby will be annoying to others (in a restaurant, shop, plane), yet they go ahead and do it anyway. I'd bet a week in Hawaii that, when your baby is a toddler, you'll be one of those horrible parents who thinks a child misbehaving atrociously in public is "adorable".

Jeff/Court, <BR> <BR>One word: drugs! <BR> <BR>Well, not the scheduled kind, but here's an actual bit of advice: kids often cry on planes because their ears hurt and they don't have the same ploys for clearing them that grown-ups do. Also they get fussy because their normal sleep/nap/active/nap patterns are disrupted. SO: get your pediatrician to tell you exactly how much benedryl or some comparable antihistamine to give your child to both clear out their ears AND make 'em drowsy. Keep them physically active until you actually board, so that they will be physicially tired by the time you settle in. Try to schedule flights at around the same time the child would normally eat and then go to sleep, and then do that. The benedryl comes in about 1/2 hr. before take-off. <BR> <BR>Best arrangement is a 1 pm flight, for example, such that you keep them up and active (crawling, playing, etc.) until boarding. Try to get them food as soon as possible after take off, and then they may well nap for the rest of the flight. <BR> <BR>For unforeseen problems: things to suck on for reassurance and to keep ears clear; a cache of brand new toys to bring out one at a time at various intervals so the novelty will keep them distracted; one or two favorite books and one or two new books to read to them. <BR> <BR>FOR EVERYONE ELSE: LOSE the attitude, since what J/C were asking for was help so that they and their infant WOULDN'T be a problem. They are to be commended, and helped.

Since you actually asked for suggestions on travelling with infants, you would be well advised to limit your travels to those appropriate. I find it highly inconsiderate that anyone would advise you not to worry about who you unnecessarily annoy along the way and find the advise to "drug" a baby for travelling despicable.

Perhaps this might be a good exercise for those about to travel with babies....think back to your favorite vacation before you were a parent. maybe it was your honeymoon, or a trip someplace hot with a group of friends, or backpacking through europe. and when you were waiting at the gate for your flight, or being seated at a restaurant, or picking out chairs by the pool, what were your thoughts towards the kids you'd see around you? <BR>in all honesty, my answers are as follows.... <BR>at the airport: hope that kid isn't on our flight; hope he/she is tired and falls asleep; hope the parents aren't self-indulgent baby boomers who think their precious offspring is cute no matter what the child is doing. <BR>at the restaurant or by the pool: I would ask to be seated or seat myself away from kids, especially at breakfast. <BR>I may be in the minority, people may think i am being harsh, but these are my honest feelings about kids travelling. and there are other people like me, as is evidenced on this board. <BR> <BR>i guess the main advice i would give is to get the kid his own seat. there is NOTHING more annoying than being the third person in a row with 2 parents and a kid on their lap. I've seen parents push it with the age limit too. <BR> <BR>I'm looking forward to having kids, and will probably do what my parents did...lots of vacations in the summer to the beach or lakes with a rented house for the convenience or to a resort with lots of activities. and then as they are older, take them more places, and in late high school and college, start going to europe. <BR>and i guess it's also in how you raise your kids. we were disciplined in a strict manner and were very respectful of other adults. we also knew there were consequences to our actions, so while we probably did push it sometimes, it wasnt' that often. <BR> <BR>That seems to be the general theme here. if the kids are better behaved, it wouldn't be so bad. but there is an epidemic of indulgent parenting out there and it shows when the kids are out in public. <BR>

No Edie, you're certainly not the only one who feels there are too many self-indulgent, inconsiderate parents around. But it's the total lack of common sense that appalls me. Perhaps we should start issuing parenting licenses or something. People subject their children to almost anything nowadays in order to do what THEY want to do. How often do you see kids in bars and brew pubs now? Did YOUR parents ever take you to bars? What the hell are these people thinking? <BR> <BR>Same goes for those who drag babies along on long flights to vacation spots for their own selfish pleasure. The only people here who are offering encouragement are those who are doing the same thing and telling everyone else to "get over it", "lose the attitude", "ignore the stares and stage whispers" and just plain forget everyone else and do whatever the hell you want. You are, however, part of a larger society, one that is pretty fed up with YOUR attitude and your self-indulgent behavior, as evidenced here. Take the kid along when it's old enough to enjoy the trip and behave (if you ever teach it to do so).

Jeff/Court, <BR>Seems like everyone is discussing things other that what is best for your baby. I would like to give you a little insight on physiology. I have 14 years of flying experience. First, climbing is no problem for people's ears, they my pop but that is just air escaping and is normal. The problem is in descending. If you have an inflamed eustasion tube, you can get an "ear block" where there is a vacuum of pressure in your inner ear that fails to equalize due to the inflammation. In extreme cases this can rupture an eardrum, in most cases it is painful for a few hours until the pressure slowly equalizes. Babies frequently cry on descent because they have very small eustation tubes that are easily blocked. If your baby has a head cold, I would not recommend flying. Finally, I have flown numberous times with my young daughter. The best thing for an infant or small child is their own car seat. My daughter has lots of miles already because I have always paid for her seat so she could sit in her car seat. This is also the safest thing for them to sit in in case there is turbulence. I'm not against or for you going with your baby, just wanted to give some info...

Well, I still think my first answer of babies outside on all planes (like on the wings) is best, the drug answer is second best. Massive amounts of drugs. <BR>Give some to the parents too.

I have heard from several parents with small children that there are children's earplugs available at the drug store that are specifically designed to cope with ear pressure when flying. I've seen them at several drug stores, so they shouldn't be hard to find. <BR> <BR>I think much of the advice about getting an extra seat and wearing out the baby before hand is good. This trip sounds like a nice chance for the youngest member of the family to get to know the rest of the clan.

Yes, I'm sure the baby will remember its trip to Hawaii and all the relatives it met well into its old age. Its fellow airline passengers will remember the trip though -- the flight with the screaming, smelly, miserable baby and the stupid, selfish people who brought it on a jet to Hawaii.

I have never seen such a concentration of self-centered, uncompassionate, spoiled brats as the crew in this thread jumping all over Jeff/Court! You all must have been hatched from reptile eggs and survived by eating the young of others to keep your predatory edge. You each make WC Fields a candidate for UNICEF, and you've clearly never visited a part of the world where children and the elderly are treasured. Do you think the world was designed and run for the sole benefit of sterile people aged 21 to 40? <BR> <BR>Look at the first post -- they're going to a family reunion! That's where you bring babies -- the next generation. I pray the rest of you don't reproduce!!! Sorry your own parents did such a lousy job of raising you; perhaps they hated children too.

There are no earplugs that can keep your inner ears from being affected by the change in air pressure. Your eustasion tube has an opening in your throat to equalize the pressure. If you were going to block off your ear from pressure changes, you would have to plug that too. I've been through many hypobaric chamber rides and the aerospace physiology people have yet to give me earplugs.

Jeff/Court: <BR>Airplanes are transportation. I doubt most people are there for fun. We are not talking about taking a child to a fancy restaurant. Take the trip. Although I never flew with my kids when they were young we used to do a 6 1/2 hour car ride to grandma's house with two children 17 months apart in age. We didn't have the air pressure issue but we did have to keep them in car seats the whole way. We survived as many have suggested by leaving at 2:30 in the morning. I also entertained them with toys, books, whatever. They slept most if not the entire way. I agree with many suggestions that talking to your pediatrician about dramamine or benadryl might be helpful. <BR>My children's grandparents on my husband's side both passed away and two nieces have had cancer in the past two years. If you are like many of us with family spread all over the country, you probably don't get many chances to be together. Make the most of it and do what you can to be as considerate as possible of everyone else. <BR>To everyone else, this is 8 hours out of your life, keep it in perspective. <BR>When you talk about consideration and manners maybe you should ask yourself <BR>why you are so viciously attacking someone you don't even know. The venomous replies of some people here are depressing. <BR> <BR>

Wow. There sure are some bitchy people on this board. Get a life, folks! There are two sides to every issue, and this is no exception. If I were in Jeff's shoes, I would certainly take my child to Hawaii. Jeff has that right and his family should not stop traveling because one of the family members is young. Jeff should also realize that some people in the cabin of the aircraft won't be happy about it and should do what he can to make it as pleasant as possible. Let's try to be productive, folks...babies (not baby's!), older people who need a little extra time or help, etc are part of the travel experience, good or bad. We live with it and make the best. <BR> <BR>For what it's worth, I fly 300,000 miles a year and would rather sit next to a baby than a blabbermouth who wants to talk about his/her career, children, sex life, and anything else that pops up!

Sorry, but a person's rights end where another's begins. And, passengers have the "right" not to have their ride disturbed by a screaming baby. Parents do not have a right to take their children anywhere where they may be disruptive to others. I don't know what's worse, the screaming baby or the exasperated parent repeating "Shssssh" over and over again.

Sorry, Nancy, but you're flat out wrong. You simply don't have the "right" to travel and not be bothered by anyone in this day and age. In a perfect world, yes. In the age of mass transportation, no...to think otherwise is just goofy. I would personally choose to leave my kids with grandma (as I did when they were younger because of the problems we're mentioning now) but I don't pretend to have the answers for everyone, including Jeff.

Jeff, <BR> <BR>About 10 years ago my husband started working in Singapore, which started our long distance flights. At the time my oldest of 3 was 5 years old. I also had a 3 year old and a 3 month old baby. Wow. My husband's company paid for business class tickets for all, which was great because it gave you the room that you really need for a long flight with kids, but I am talking 12 hour flights here. All kids are different and we were actually complimented on our kids behaviour. Try to get one of the bassinets that hang off the front of the bulkhead for the baby as it does help a lot. Also if the baby is still nursing that helps alot, although I know many babies are weaned by 10 months even though mine were not. Certainly it will go much more smoothly in first class with kids. Any airline other than a U.S. based airline will also be a plus. <BR> <BR>Any questions please e mail. I have many stories and suggestions on traveling with kids, but I would never suggest staying home!! <BR> <BR>Kathy