That last reply is a perfect pacifier to stick in any child's screaming orifice.

What we need more than anything is a Fodor's chat room--Fodor's PLEASE take note--where parents who travel with their children can post messages and have an intelligent discussion, instead of being insulted by the travel, medical, and family know-it-alls who seem to come out of the woodwork whenever anyone asks a question about traveling with kids. FIND ANOTHER FORUM, TROLLS! If you don't like the public, don't take public transportation <BR> <BR>We're about to take our 18-month-old and 5 year old to Hawaii (Boston-Chicago-Honolulu-Lihue, look out, trolls!). They've been to France, they've been to England three times apiece, we went to Hawaii when the eldest was three, they've flown all over creation. Why? To spend priceless time with assorted grandparents and great-grandparents, who are elderly, unable to travel, and live a long way away. Again, airlines are PUBLIC transportation. We are part of the PUBLIC. We PAID for the seats. <BR> <BR>Dave, take your little one to Maui. Do what you gotta do on the flight to make it as smooth as possible, consistent with your kid's temperament. Build sand castles and take him/her to a beach with tidepools where he/she can watch the fish. I think you'll be glad. <BR> <BR>

Please tell me why parents think that their children deserve special rights just because they are runts? What's all this about doing "it" for "the children?" These children grow up to be problem adolescents, then murderers and corrupt politicians. I know I was a child once; I was once a problem adolescent; and I'm sure I'll murder the next arrogant parent I see when travelling!

Pahamoney,I thought you never read the replies. Seems you have nothing better to do and just can't let go. I think all readers hope they are surrounded by kids on their next flight, just to be sure they are not sitting next to you. <BR>Have a great time Dave.

Pat: <BR> <BR>My statement “maybe passengers who prefer not to sit next to children on a long flight should STAY HOME...” was derived from the previous posts stating keep your child at home instead of <BR>taking them along a long flight and ruining it for the rest of the passengers around them. Why should the child stay home?! If you can’t handle it, don’t deal... you STAY HOME!! <BR> <BR>Oh guess what....you live in the same world as my child and the world DOES NOT revolve around you! Duh!! Hmmm, you seem to know a lot about body odor and from your post, I KNOW YOU’RE A NASTY, STINKY person. It’s probably from having your head so far up your smelly c%$#*@!!

Where's Mister Rogers when we really need him? I think you all need to go to your rooms for a time out.

Juli <BR> <BR>Are you saying that if I pay for my seat on a transatlantic flight (it's public transportation), I have paid for the right to urinate on the floor whenever I feel like it? Of course not. <BR> <BR>I'm sure there are numerous kids who dont act up on flights but here's the thing - many do. Yes I know that's what kids do and it's a part of growing up etc however that fact doesnt really comfort me when little jimmy (or juli) is kicking my seat or screaming or in some other way acting up. To say that taking your kids on long flights to faraway places is a great experience is fine - but remember the people forced to share the same space as you on the flight make think differently. <BR> <BR>I would agree a lot of it is the parents fault. I started travelling with my parents just a few months after I was born and they now inform me that I was a 'good' child and didn't cause a fuss. Not because I'm a goody goody but because my parents knew how to handle small children and knew that me acting up was a pain for others.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: those nasty-mouthed people with so much vinegar and venom for traveling kids sound to be about 9 years old themselves, whining about younger siblings who are bothhhhhhering them in the back seat. "Mommmm, he's kicking me, make him stop!" "Mommmm, shut her up, she's just faking! I didn't do anything!" "Mommmm, does he have to come everytime? He's such a pain!" <BR> <BR>I'm not saying there are not some absolutely clueless parents who make traveling difficult for both child and other passengers. I am saying that all this cantakerous carping is at least as childish and certainly more spoiled-brat than some kid who doesn't yet know how to yawn to clear his ears.

MT Nester <BR> <BR>I'm being childish if I ask a parent or child to stop kicking my seat? What's the adult thing to do - let them carry on until they grow tired?

Tony Rose, No, I've paid for the right to have my child occupy a seat on that flight, subject to the same rules as any adult that occupies that seat. Parents need to control their children, and adults need to control themselves. Funny no one on this site seems to notice that it's generally adults--not kicking toddlers--who get disruptive, drunk and/or violent and actually pose a threat, as opposed to a nuisance, to other passengers and the crew. Someone ask an airline employee which category they think is the real problem on long flights.

it's usually adults as they make up the biggest percentage of people on board. Typically less than 10% kids, thus my point would be they create more than 10% of the fuss.

Tony, <BR> <BR>The right to urinate on the floor? I'm sure (I hope) you're speaking figuratively; but just in case, I hope I'm never seated next to you on a plane. At least I've never seen a child engage in that type of behavior. I have, however, seen a few drunks do that. <BR>

Hey-we just had a family on board our flight that the father had the 5 year old urinate in the seat before they got off to protest! There were five in the family (1 aisle,3 center and 1 aisle seat configuration for them)and they were mad that 5 of them could not sit in 3 seats for takeoff. The father was a professional and the children were 3,5, and 8. The traveling public has no idea on how the manners of society have changed since I started flying........... <BR>Back to the original poster-my thoughts as a mother and veteran flight attendant is to leave the baby home for this trip.Enjoy the second honeymoon!

Question for Lisa-How is it that your toddler can sit quietly and courteously on a long flight? Do you drug your child or what. I have worked with toddlers and none of them sit still or are quiet for very long. And, at 16 months, they can not be expected to grasp the concept of courtesy and not bothering others! You must have blinders on! You need a REALITY check lady, and the sooner the better!

I have a 2 1/2 year old and she can only handle about a 2 hour flight. Which puts us on one of Florida's nice beaches. Because of her age and the fact that she can't sit still very long--I would not subject her to an 8 hour flight. My advice, take your kid to Florida, the Bahammas or somewhere 2 hours or less. Save Hawaii when the child is older. <BR> <BR>By the way--most tour operators, do not allow children younger than 8 on their Hawaii excursions. Why do you think they do this???

I can't believe how this question has deteriorated into a kid/adult bash session!! i would like to answer the original question if the poster is still reading this thread anymore, I'm not sure I would be. <BR> <BR>I think the plane trip is the least of your worries with this vacation. Going to Maui like this may be aonce in a lifetime trip for you and you will most likely want to be on the go and see and do as much as you can. Save the 7 days of laying on the beach for a trip closer to home and less expensive. With that in mind, I would leave the toddler at home. He/she is not going to remember anything about this trip to hawaii only you and your wife will. As some intelligent posters have stated, your child may have hard time adjusting to the time change and may be fussy, also tour and excursions do not allow small children period!! if your toddler is anything like mine, he gets irritable if we are up late at night past his bedtime (8:30 p.m.) as well. You will not be able to go out at night and stay for any length. Think about being at a fabulous luau and it's 8p.m. Hawaii time (VERY late in any other time zone) your child is irritable and grumpy and you have to leave before even finishing the show! Other considerations, your child may require more speialized food than you do which may be hard to find there, or expensive. Childrens diets can't be changed all the time like ours. <BR> <BR>Even if your child is good and well-behaved I don't think he will enjoy this trip which will take away from your enjoyment. It may be hard to leave him home, but use this as a time to reconnect with your wife and enjoy yourselves.

topping!

 <BR>Answer for Dumbfounded: <BR> <BR>If you read my previous post, I KNOW my child doesn’t sit quietly and curteously for an entire long flight. Adults that have sat near my child and me during a lengthy flight, always have been more than considerate to my child and understanding, just as I have acted before a child and now with a child, which IMO makes a big difference in a child’s behavior. <BR> <BR>Teaching children to be courteous at any age is a good thing. I don’t expect my child to grasp the concept of courtesy at 16-months, but children are always learning; and I, as a parent, must try to teach my child to be considerate all the time regardless of their age. All I can do is be as <BR>neighborly as possible towards the passenger sitting near my child, and in return I’m expecting the same. Fortunately, I have sat next to great empathetic people during my air travels with my toddler. If I feel I can handle my child or children on an 8 hr. flight, then that’s my business if I <BR>take them along, not the person who can’t handle it, or has some child phobia or has it stuck in their head that all children are intolerable during long airplane flights. <BR> <BR>My situation is that most of my immediate family resides overseas, and traveling with my toddler is a must. It is what it is, and children will always be on lengthy flights for one reason or another, just like an adult would be, and YES you might have to sit near one, just deal the best way you <BR>can...basically that’s the REALITY! <BR> <BR>As far as drugging my child...NEVER!! Are you saying that a child can only be good, quiet or still for a long period of time if drugged? You’ve stated you have worked with toddlers, I beg to <BR>differ!

SickofLisa: <BR> <BR>Oh no, did I get on your nerves? I didn't mean to...NOT!! <BR> <BR>I wonder what kind of names you would call a child kicking your seat on an airplane. Better watch out, someone might kick more than you seat if you don't quit your belly aching. <BR> <BR>Relax!! It's only a post on Fodors Travel Talk! I can't believe it got to you that way, HA! <BR> <BR>Don't fret, I'm outta here!

I think most children flying these days with their parents are generally well-behaved. Unfortunately, all it takes is one bad experience to ruin it for someone forever. However, one rotten apple (spoiled child) should not spoil it for the rest of the infant population. I certainly wouldn't want to be prejudged by how another woman my age acted on a plane. Especially the one who decided to paint her nails, bringing everyone to their knees from smell of polish remover and the polish itself. Or the woman who perched on the arm of my seat with her handbag up my nose while waiting to use the toilet. On that particular flight, a bootie in the rear would have been the least of my problems.