Airlines are ANTI-AMERICAN
 

Dear Travelers,<BR><BR>Many of you already know that the major airlines, Delta, American, Continental and Northwest, have decided to completely cut commissions for tickets booked through travel agencies. You may think this does not affect you if you already book your tickets directly through the airlines or online. The airline's decision may affect everyone. <BR><BR>The airlines know that the majority of tickets sold are booked through travel agencies. They know that if they eliminate commissions they can save some money. What I want to know is why the airlines are still paying commission to travel agencies outside of the United States, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands and Canada? Wasn't it the US taxpayer's money that bailed the airlines out this past year? Why is it that if I worked in a travel agency in say, Afghanistan, the major airlines in the United States would pay me 9% commission on every ticket sold? Maybe next time the airlines should ask Afghanistan for "bail out" money. If you pay taxes, this may affect you.<BR>Eventually travel agencies will stop issuing airline tickets. Wouldn't you if you were asked to work for nothing? When that day comes you will only be able to purchase tickets directly through the airlines themselves or on an airline owned website like Orbitz or Travelocity. The only place to purchase tickets from an unbiased source will be eliminated and the airlines will not lower their airfare less the former agencies' commissions either. If you plan to fly this may affect you. <BR><BR>The Travel Agency community has asked these questions to their Congressperson, Senators and even the White House and has not gotten any answers. Why these issues seem to be non-issues to them is a mystery to any of us. If you find you have similar questions I suggest you call your favorite airline and ask them. The bottom line is your money and that is the only thing airlines understand. <BR><BR>Thank you,<BR><BR>Joyce Korman<BR>Lloyd Travel<BR>Portland, OR<BR><BR>American Airlines Pays the Following Commissions to Foreign Countries with NO CAPS:<BR><BR>BELGIUM 7%<BR>FRANCE/UK/SWITZERLAND 7%<BR>SPAIN 7.5%<BR>SWEDEN 7%<BR>GERMANY 7%<BR>POLAND 7%<BR>NETHERLANDS 7%<BR>AUSTRIA 7%<BR>HUNGARY 7%<BR>ITALY 7%<BR>CARIBBEAN (EXCL PUERTO RICO AND US VIRGIN ISLANDS) 6%<BR>CENTRAL AMERICA 6%<BR>SOUTH AMERICA 6%<BR>URUGUAY 6%<BR>COLUMBIA 6%<BR>MEXICO 6%<BR>HONK KONG 7%<BR>SINGAPORE 5%<BR>THAILAND 7%<BR>TAIWAN 7%<BR>MALAYSIA 5%<BR>PHILIPPINES 7%<BR>JAPAN 7%<BR>FIJI 7%<BR>SRI LANKA 7%<BR>S AFRICA 7%<BR>NAMIBA 7%<BR>LESOTHO 7%<BR>BOTSWANA 7%<BR>BAHRAIN 7%<BR>QATAR 7%<BR>UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 7%<BR>EGYPT 7%<BR>OMAN 7%<BR>SAUDI ARABIA 7%<BR><BR>IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND NOT LISTED ABOVE 9%<BR>IN THE PACIFIC AND NOT LISTED ABOVE 9%<BR>IN THE ATLANTIC/EUROPE/ASIA AND NOT LISTED ABOVE 9%<BR><BR>UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0%<BR><BR>WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? Just a little more information to add to the anger. It appears from the above listed commissions that if we were in Pakistan we would get 9% commission. Osama was probably funding his terrorist camps with American Airlines commissions. Go figure.

Trust me, Joyce. What I am about to say is going to be much less harsh than inevitable wrath you're going to suffer from other posters.<BR><BR>Your argument would work a lot better -- and sound more sane -- if you avoided the phony-patrotism shtick.<BR><BR>Yeah, right, like we're all believing that Osama's evil is funded by airline commissions. <BR><BR>This is about TAs gettting clipped by the airlines, so stop pretending that you're patriotic or looking out for "our" best interests.

I can certainly understand how YOU as a TA would be upset by this, but I still don't see how this affects travelers who book their own tickets. <BR><BR>You stated twice that this may affect us. My question is how? I already purchase only through Orbitz or Expedia, so what difference will this make to me?

Your argument is ridiculous. <BR><BR>If I lived in Afganistan I would have no choice but to buy a ticket through a travel agent. <BR><BR>Since I live in the US, I have choices. I ALWAYS elect to avoid travel agents becuase they basically just add additional expenses to the process. <BR><BR>The airlines, like US citizens, have choices. They don't need the travel agents in the US, so why pay them? Out of loyalty? Or (as you somehow suggest), out of patriotism?<BR><BR>Supporting dying industry is not a way to run a business nor a country.<BR><BR>Instead of complaining, I'd advise you to move to Afganistan and open up a travel agency in Kabul.

Told ya, Joyce.

JOYCE KORMAN IS ANTI-INTELLIGENCE<BR><BR>

Most of the smarter agencies already have eliminated issuing tickets only AND they are charging fees anywhere from $10-40 and that will probably increase.<BR><BR>If you want symapthy Joyce you have come to the wrong place...

I'm as baffled as anyone by this policy change. I'll steer clear of discussing politics but do have a decided opinion on travel agents. For those of us who are Internet savvy and accustomed to regular traveling, travel agents are rarely if ever a necsssity when booking personal travel. For business travel, i find the services of our good and reliable travel agent to be a godsend. rather than monkeying around and taking time to get everything lined up, our admin calls them with the particulars - when one of needs to travel, price range of hotel we need etc. They have our preferences on file (aisle or window seat, smoking or non-smoking room, preferred airline etc.) and in short order we get a call back with the options based on price and convenience factors and then a printed itinerary is delivered the next day. We're a small company but do enough traveling that we'd need one staff person to spend 1/4 to 1/3 of their time to organize and expedite this if we had not travel agent. There are also folks who travel very rarely and need/appreciate/will pay for the assistance. I think it would make more sense to have internet only specials for folks who want to do their own booking and leave the commissions in place for the agents. Just my two cents...

Joyce, you and your cohorts should have seen the writing on the wall. This was coming way before 9-11 and to throw patriotism in our face is an insult. If you didn't see this coming you are in a sad state of denial.<BR><BR>The agents that will survive are the ones offering niche business or packages. You need to adjust to the times, this is after all a new century.

What a bunch bull! First, I question your statistic that most domestic airline tickets are booked through a travel agent (still must be some fools out there). Secondly, a travel agent is hardly an unbiased source. It's a proven fact that agents routinely book tickets not on convenience but on the price of their commision. A travel agent is a dinosaur in my mind. The only time I would even consider using one is if I was going on an around the world trip and had multiple stopping points. Face it, your being replaced by automation. The airlines can save money and so can the consumer by booking directly with the airline. I know you won't give me a free round trip ticket if I book four fligts through you. However, SW airlines will! Sorry, gotta go book my next on-line ticket.

Since when is a travel agency the only "unbiased" way to purchase anything? Your preferred suppliers pay you to steer customers to them. Now they put that money into web sites and advertise directly to their customers, with no need for a middleman like you.<BR><BR>I used a travel agent in 1986, and once was enough. I've booked all my own travel directly with hotels and airlines ever since. The internet has made it even easier. I've had no need for an agent for the last 16 years and do not forsee the need for one any time in the future.<BR><BR>Yes, my tax money unwillingly went to "bail out" millionaire airline executives. But who do you think gave them this money? The very same Congress that you're pleading to now, the ones in the pockets of the airlines. You may want to consider that during the next Congressional election in your state. <BR><BR>Corporations run this country and the airlines are corporations. If they want to eliminate entire industries, like travel agencies, they will. If they want to ship all manufacturing and tech jobs overseas they will. Better polish up on your cashiering skills, because Walmart will be the only game in town and they always need new "associates."

to the above poster:<BR><BR><BR>but the Airlines are not eliminating the TAs. What they are saying is "OK, Mr. Small Company, if you want to use a travel agent, YOU are going to have to pay for it, not us."

sorry my note "to the above poster"<BR><BR>is in reference to Owen O'Neill's response.

Now you know how the guy who used to fill your gas tank felt when he first heard of self-serv. Bubba's right, the travel agent business is a dinosaur. PS: The bottom line isn't our money, it apparently seems to be all about your money. Sounds like you might be able to move south of the border and still get your commission.

What the core issue here is probably that people are not traveling. The fact that this and the other TA thread are as active as they are and not taking a back seat to a destination thread shows you what kind of straits the airlines are in. All the airlines loss money not just from 9/11 but the down turn in our economy. <BR><BR>I would like to see people getting out and traveling again and perhaps this would expand this industry and increase the options for travelers. Until then just looks like less travel, less deals, less middle people like TA.

You know what the best part of all this will be? When the travel agencies are finally run out of business, we will no longer have to wonder if all the so called helpful advice on Fodor's is really just TAs posting incognito to recommend their preferred suppliers! The TA threads of the past few days have proved that this site is literally crawling with them. Good riddance!

Joyce-<BR>Maybe if you didn't waste your time posting bogus information and researching airlines statistics and instead DID YOUR JOB (novel idea) you wouldn't have anything to complain about in the first place. Seems to me TA's know very little about their industry at all and are incapable of providing the service they claim to be an expert in. Stop placing blame on others and realize, once and for all, that your lack of knowledge is what is making you a dying breed - NOTHING else.

Actually, people are flying again for leisure. Business travel is down and that has to do with the economy and corporations cutting costs. A lot of companies have in-house agents and they recoup the commission money spent of travel.<BR><BR>As to Travel Agents wanting special treatment from Congress, no way. Where was the hand out for the auto workers when NAFTA caused their jobs to be shipped to Mexico. And where was the hand out to the textile workers and the rest of the workers who lost jobs because they were either being shipped overseas or downsized. <BR><BR>Sorry, travel agents you can't compete in today's economy, you close or get into another line of work....

Did you ever notice the travel agents screaming the loudest aren't working????

OK,<BR>I have to confess.<BR><BR>I use Travel Agents.<BR><BR>I use one to clean my house, one to clean the pool. One does my landscaping. Another walks my dog and washes my cars.<BR><BR>Oh, for travel advice and ticketing? Of course I only use the Internet.

I have, Now that's cold!

joyce,<BR>travel agents in the uk do not get airfare commision and have not done so for nearly three years.

I've seen too many posts about the demise of TAs on this Web site lately and I can't stay out of it any more. To all TAs: I used to believe that, since I spend several hundred dollars on an airline ticket, hotel, rental car, etc. I'm certainly not going to quibble over paying an extra $10-25 to have someone else sit on the phone for ages with the vendors, save me the long distance charges, etc. However, I have never, repeat never, had a good experience with the TAs I used. And, before the advent of the Internet, I used them for years--they were the only game in town, after all. I'm a nice person, I do my homework, I even gave the agents recommended hotels, flights, etc. But none ever got even the simplest thing right. From being put in a hotel in the business district of Munich when I asked for one by the Christmas Market (costing me a fortune in taxis) to a flea bag hotel in Florence to one who forgot to order the airline tickets, I've seen incompetence and it's sitting at a desk with posters of Hong Kong behind it! <BR><BR>I gave them another try last fall for a Disneyworld/Disney cruise package I bought for five people. This was through a "specially trained Disney agent" at AAA. Right! Horrible, horrible plane connections and "sorry, no other Delta flights that day. Besides, if you want AAA to change the flight we have to charge $25 per person." Keep in mind that they chose the flights and the airlines arbitrarily--their choice, not mine. I called Delta myself and found out there were 8 flights that day and they kindly put us on direct flights!<BR><BR>Sorry I rambled, but Joyce, there's a bigger reason why people don't use TAs anymore and you're deluding yourself if you think it has much to do with money. <BR><BR>Thanks for letting me vent, folks. Now back to your regularly scheduled travel postings.

Joyce? Are ya there? Any response to your Dear Travelers? <BR><BR>By the way, I see that United will follow Delta, Continental, Northwest, and American to eliminate TA commissions. Other airlines?

Yesterday I called my TA for a ticket on AA to Nashville. Her computer said 391.50. She checked Orbitz and it was 220.00. She said buy it. I paid her 25.00 to do it for me cause I am going into a daylong meeting. Less competion = higher prices for all of us. Am I the only person in the world that pays someone to do something I don't have time for?

Ah...the beauty of a free market. You have the privilidge to pay for a TA. Delta, et al have the privilidge not to.<BR><BR>

Great TA story:<BR>Through a TA, I booked a room at the Camelback in Scottsdale, and ran into a disaster. The room wasn't ready, then they gave us the wrong room, We ended up sitting around for four hours waiting for the room.<BR><BR>When I got back, I told the TA about it to complain. She feigned sympathy and said, "If I were you, I'd write to the hotel and complain!" Oh, thanks for your help.<BR><BR>Here's the punchline: A year later she called to inform me that I had not paid her. I fortunately had my old credit card bills, which showed she had been paid, and I faxed her a copy. Which was followed by a letter from her saying that she hadn't been paid.<BR><BR>Guess what? She's now out of business (and probably blaming the airlines for it).

Joyce is an example of the reason I don't use travel agents. They don't make any sense and don't understand business and think people should be forced to pay them money and support them when they don't want their services.<BR><BR>The bottom line is, if you are offering a service that is of value to someone in our society, you will get paid for it. If you don't, you should find another line of work. People who find TA services of use should pay for them. People who don't (like me and many others) will do our own travel research and booking. If TAs deliver such useful services, clients should be willing to pay for them, shouldn't they? Those who find TAs useful and a time-saver can pay for them. This is really very simple, it's the same for any occupation or business. <BR><BR>What is "un-American" is to expect laws to be passed that force businesses to pay TAs money when they don't want to. I don't know of any other business like that (although there may be one, I'd be curious if there were) -- where the manufacturer/supplier is forced by law to pay a commission to a vendor of their product, which can also be purchased directly from them (by phone or an office in major cities or the internet) and which many people prefer to do because they find a middleman not useful, but obstructive and time-consuming.<BR><BR>I think clients who use TA's services should be the ones who pay for them.<BR><BR>As far as airlines paying foreign TAs a commission, so what? I don't know if it's true, but if it is, I would imagine there is a good reason for it. Namely, that US airlines don't have a big presence in foreign countries and this is just a sales incentive for those agents. This is a business, if that works for them, why not? I'm sure they aren't doing that out of charity but because it makes sense financially. In fact, it makes sense to me, to try to increase US airline sales in foreign countries. It also contradicts the thesis that agents are "unbiased" sources of info. That is really funny. I also only buy tickets from the airlines themselves or web sites like Travelocity. Web sites run by a consortium of airlines do not raise fares, in fact, they often offer the best deals (ie, opodo.co.uk in Europe).<BR><BR>(oh, yeah, the idea that TAs keep airline ticket prices low is hilarious)

I agree with Owen. TAs will have to specialize to survive. <BR><BR>My company also uses an agency for business travel, and it is worth the time savings to do so. However, I think the agency works hard to keep the big corporate accounts. They are easy and pleasant to deal with, because they know if they weren't, my company would find another agency.<BR><BR>I would also consider a tour put together by an agency if it was something special. I know people who use them often for all-inclusive trips and find the convenience worth it.<BR><BR>I do agree, though, that the days of calling an agent for every vacation are over.

I was an Executive Secretary to one of the Vice Presidents of a large bank in the US before I had children and decided to stay home. We had a large, well-known travel agency handle all of our corporate travel and they were forever messing up preferences, frequent flyer miles, hotels etc. I had to double check everything and spent countless hours on the phone trying to get things straightened out. I was not only doing my job, but the travel agent's job as well....

Why are t/as so frustrated about this? if they save so much money they should charge a fee for their services instead of making all air fare consumers pay for their comissions. Orbitz and those sites are doign fine but t/a make the majority of ticket sales so they shoudl stop crying and get to working.

Newsflash! This just in: Silent movie stars protesting the use of sound in the movies. Film at eleven...

You go Joyce- she is so right. And why do you think you are paying more to use a travel agent..it just isnt true. It is true that it is sometimes cheaper NOW to buy on the internet and its certainly everyones right but you are also paying a fee there whether you see it or not. I have no idea why everyone on here are so angry at TA;s....in the past our commission from the airlines etc was paid directly from the company and was not a charge to you. You will soon find the airline fares rising and yes her statistics are correct..most airline tickets by far are done thru an agency. We are only working and making a living like anyone else and working very hard i might add....thanks for your time<BR><BR><BR>W

I'm not going to argue Joyce's point, but to Sam I say, the federal gov't DOES bail out private industry in many ways (see subsidies, tariffs, the deal the airlines recently struck). So that line of reasoning isn't valid. And I did get a good "Fly Free" trip to Puerto Rico through a travel agent lately.

Use travel agents if you want someone to do the work. Pay them. Don't use travel agents if you want to do the work. Either method is totally acceptable. Unfortunately for those that aren't computer literate or don't have a computer are the ones who will suffer with commission cuts. They do not have the choice.<BR><BR>But, enough about commission cuts agents. They happened. The airlines aren't going to change their mind. <BR><BR>A plea to all agents quit writing about this to Fodors. This is an internet site devoted to people who want to do it on their own. Why continue to waste your time? You aren't going to change someone's mind. No one is going to come to you for business because you posted here. <BR><BR>Agents complain about the public on their sites, well I'm complaining about agents on this site. If you want to post as the public, great. But stop with your problems already.<BR><BR>Let's move on from airline bashing, agent bashing and all these ridiculous issues.<BR><BR>