after-dinner mints at Kauai Pasta - comments, please!!!
 

((r)) Aloha, everyone! We just got back from our 2 week trip (12th sensational one!) to Kauai (trip report to follow soon), and I wanted to share the following restaurant experience to get your feedback:

After having heard some positive buzz about Kauai Pasta, a new casual Italian restaurant in Kapa'a, Kauai, we decided to give it a try last week. The owner-chef was the executive chef at Roy's on Kauai for several years, and the word was that this restaurant was a good value for fine Italian food in an unassuming setting. We found all of this to be true, and were impressed by how efficiently well-run this family operation was, as well as by the quality and generous portions of the food on the limited menu - they did everything well. We had decided by the end of the meal that we would definitely come back when we return to Kauai next year. At the end of the meal, along with the bill came the after-dinner mints; but these were not your ordinary after-dinner mints - the front of the wrapper was labelled "testamints", with the 1st "t" clearly in the shape of a religious cross, and on the back side of each of our wrappers was a different Bible quotation (New TestaMINT!). While this alone was somewhat disconcerting since there had been no previous context to it, i.e. no religious paintings, etc., when I opened the wrapper, the mint, which was in the shape of a Velamint, was clearly engraved on the surface with yet another religious cross - nothing else, just the cross. At this point, I felt quite unsettled and very uncomfortable, and it quickly displaced the positive feeling I had had up to that point for the restaurant - it just seemed like an inappropriate venue for these religious references and was a curious choice, given that it has the potential to alienate a fair percentage of their clientele. Before we left, I went up to the chef-owner, Russell Stokes, and while praising him on the overall experience of the restaurant, I let him know that I felt uncomfortable with these mints being handed out in a restaurant setting. He responded as though I had 3 heads, incredulous that I would feel uncomfortable with this, and he simply apologized for the fact that I felt uncomfortable by it (you know, one of those "non-apology apologies").

So, here's the bottom line - we WILL give Kauai Pasta another try next year, but most of the people of varying faiths with whom I have discussed this incident have also felt that this was a rather strange and inappropriate thing for the restaurant to do. Now, dear Fodorites, I put it to you - what say you about this???

Mahalo for your feedback!

Just asking, margot55, would you have felt the same if the mints had a buddha on them? If the owners choose to give out free "testamints", you are free to take them or leave them; or dine there or not, as you wish. What's the big deal?

Indeed, there are Buddha "EnlightenMints" available! Good question. Would the Haole visitor or tourist to Buddhist lands take offense to an "EnlightenMint" at the end of the meal? What if the restaurant served Halal or Kosher food? Would it offend the tongue or other sensibilities? Would the mint taste as minty by any other name? If I were the restaurant owner I am sure I wouldn't offer Testamints, primarily for concern of somehow offending the sensibilities of some customers as seems to have happened here.

Maggi - I would have felt the same way, whether Buddha, Star of David, etc. The issue is NOT about eating it or not eating it - I am fully aware of that choice - the "big deal", as you phrase it, is that while the chef-owner is absolutely entitled to be passionate about his faith (and more power to him!), it seems just as inappropriate for him to pass out these mints with the check as it would if instead he handed out religious leaflets with the checks. For example, I have no problem if he wants to wear a cross in the workplace - fine! But handing out these mints crossed a line for both me and my husband, one that borders on proselytizing...in any case, this is why I'm interested in the feedback, so thanks!

I agree. I stopped having my car washed at a place that left a flyer on my dash each time proclaiming that Jesus loved me and I needed to embrace him -- or some such thing. I only wanted my car washed -- not a conversion!

Patrick - looks like the only difference between you and me is that I support separation of Church and Restaurant, while you support separation of Church and Car Wash! ;)

Good one. But actually I support both those!

mmmmwell, margot55, Hawaii is a little different from the rest of the country. I used to work at an ad agency and we had one guy in production who was passionate about his Christianity. With the owner's permission, he conducted a small, unintrusive Bible study in one of the conference rooms every Wednesday. Anyone who felt like it could join in. At every Christmas party, we would also have him say grace to open the party.

No one ever blinked or thought twice about it. Not everyone was Christian; everyone just figured that if he was the most passionate about his chosen religion/denomination and it didn't bother anyone, until someone said they were offended it was not hurting anyone. Then one day a guy from New York pointed out that you would never find such a strong support for a preferred religion on the mainland, even in open-minded ad agencies. (He wasn't offended, just pointing it out. ) People were so surprised to hear that!

We go to Galangal, the vegetarian restaurant run by Hare Krishnas, because we like their food. People work their meal schedule around La Bamba, which is wildly popular Mexican food, because they are closed on Saturday on account they are devout 7th Day Adventists. And, when I go to some nonprofit board meetings, it opens in prayer. No one ever thinks twice.

Maybe the restaurant got a discount on the mints, or maybe they were given them free. Or maybe they have regulars who find the custom touching, what would I know? Now, if they'd served wine and wafers aftet the meal, I'd start getting suspicious, but after dinner mints???!! :)

About the flyer incident, ANY unsolicited flyer is annoying - the medium, in that case, is the message for me, and I don' like it! On the other hand, other media suit me quite well. Cathedrals in Europe are visible for miles, ditto temples and mosques in other lands, and I'm not about to see them torn down on the pretext that to build such imposing, literally, messages is wrong. Besides I'll take after-dinner mints over people ringing my doorbell or telephone, or jamming my email box, any day.

I'm with you, Sue! Much ado about nada.

A little unusual - but try to add it to your collections of unique things that have happened to you on your travels - sometimes thngs that start out as initially negative to us have a more positive aftereffect - like getting stranded in an airport and meeting some fascinating people.

Whether this owner was expressing his strong religious beliefs, thought they fit into his restaurant theme, or a really unique marketing tool (you have already given him some increased marketing here) - who knows.

Hmmm...some interesting perspectives so far! And while it doesn't change anything about my own visceral reaction to the experience, I really do appreciate your thoughtful responses. Let's hear more...

Interesting thread, and concept. Personally I like a mint have dinner and couldn't care less what's on it.

I don't think it matters what *we* think, as it's not *our* restaurant. If the owner chooses to *advertise* his faith in that manner, it's his choice.
Regardless what he chooses to advertise, what religion, what lifestyle, even what recent movie he thinks you should see!
Since it's not a chain restaurant (although even franchisors may have that option) you had (have) the choice to take the mint, or leave it.
It doesn't sound like you were forced to pick it up, or eat it.

Then when *you* open and operate a restaurant, you too can choose to distribute mints.
Or not.

I agree. Much ado about nothing. If you are offended by the after dinner mint, politely refuse it. Heaven help us (no pun intended) if small business owners can't offer FREE mints with whatever message they choose. Your right is to decline the mint or take your business elsewhere.

I am with Margo and Patrick. Yes, Margo had a choice but she did not know about it before her dinner.
For the same reason we never eat at one local restaurant with a big sign "Christian meals." I don't know what this means and I don't wish to find out but at least they are open about it. My choice is not to eat there.

margot -
I have stopped going to a local ice cream place because they have the Jesus fish on their sign. Since I am Christian, I shouldn't be offended, but it makes me wonder how friends of other faiths would feel if they decided to go to that ice cream place. Excluded perhaps?

BUT I recognize that the owner of this private restaurant can do whatever he chooses to do because it is his restaurant...I would just make the personal decision not to go.

I completely understand that others responding do not think that this is such a big deal, but to me it is the top of a very slippery slope.

I have a copy of the Rev. Niemoller quote on my office wall "In Germany they first came for the communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist..."

I try to keep that in my mind at all times. My friends and family roll their eyes whenever I get started.

"it seems just as inappropriate for him to pass out these mints with the check as it would if instead he handed out religious leaflets with the checks"

I agree 100 percent; I would have found this unsettling, too. It's not the same thing as conducting a bible study group by invitation, or operating a restaurant that's clearly run by a religious group or individuals who observe specific religious beliefs (kosher, closed on sabbath, whatever).

What next? A drive-by minting. An independent business owner can do whatever he wants, within the law, and you have the right to not do business with him. Oh Heavens, he attacked you sensitivities with a message-bearing mint AFTER you ate there. We need a law to prevent that from ever happening again (sarcasm). I'm not saying it's good business practice because it offended you, but maybe this man feels that others enjoy it or that he is serving a higher calling by spreading the Word.

Much ado about nothing, I guess!

What I am really confused by is Renee. Why would a Christian stop patronizing a business because of what "others might think". Just because there is a Christian symbol on the door. WWJD? I'd think Jesus would invite everyone to sit and "break bread (er, ice cream)" with him no matter what their religious views.

Honestly, if this is all people have to worry about, we are truly a lucky people.

if the restaurant serves good food, I would go back, at least the entrees aren't in shapes of religious signs. Although I do think it's kinda weird that they did that to the mint, I think I would have eaten it anyway, free mint~

I think of a Jewish friend and wonder if he/she would feel welcome in that establishment. If he/she wouldn't, I cannot feel comfortable there either.

WWJD? Maybe not put the symbol up?

In margot's defense, she has never expressed and agitation or outrage, nor said that the restaurant owner shouldn't give out whatever mints he choose. She merely described her visceral reaction and asked whether we also found it "strange and inappropriate." Of course we have freedom of religion end expression, it's just that there are appropriate and inappropriate times to exercise those rights.

margot,
My reaction would have been similar to yours. Yes, the owner can do whatever he wants to, but WHY would he find it necessary to do this? What's his point? Who cares? Where's the humility?

Margot, looking forward to the rest of your report as this was great reading!

-Bill

Yes, EXACTLY, Anonymous! In fact, I have already stated that despite my reaction, we DO intend to go back to the restaurant next year! I did not intend for this post reflect any hostility, just wanted to bounce this off the board for perspectives - I must admit, though, that I am somewhat bewildered by the rather harsh tones reflected in some responses...in any case, keep 'em coming!

I guess I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think nothing of a business "imposing" their personal views on their customers.
I guess it is "politically correct" to accept it because it is of a religious nature". But would the feelings be the same if the owners were members of KKK and passed out mints in the shape of little white hooded men? Or if the mints were wrapped with the words "we support pro choice" and had "abortion is the right of women" stamped on them? Or what if they were in the shape of swatiskas? "Gee, if that's their belief, why should it bother the customer", some of you would seem to say. Or is it only because it is an expression of their religious feelings and not political feelings that make it OK?

I started to write a long response to this thread, and while editing my post noticed that Patrick had pretty much made the same point I was aiming for. And much more eloquently!

So I'll just summarize by saying that
I, too, would have been a little uncomfortable, or at least surprised. Someone mentioned that the owner is free to put whatever message he wants on his mints. Maybe, but it's not an unlimited right. Someone else mentioned the "slippery slope" theory. So if he had racist quotes on his mints, would would be okay? Where do you draw the line?

To answer my own question, I think some of the harsh responses here are people drawing the line in favor of this because they are comfortable with being in the majority that they symbol on the mints represents, as Patrick mentions. But as reneeinva pointed out, you need to put yourself in others shoes. If you were part of a minority (race, religion, whatever) how would you feel about this? Just something to think about.

I guess most people don’t mind it because the alternative is unthinkable: not being able to express your views at all.

The vast majority of people would object to mints with the KKK emblem being passed out, and would hopefully vote with their feet and not patronize such a place. But to prohibit the expression of the sentiment in the first place would be worse, in my opinion.

The price we pay for a society in which people can follow their beliefs is that we must also be ready to defend the right of people to espouse views that we find repugnant.

Since I have young kids and order birthday goody bags etc. I see catalogs where they sell tons of strange religious stuff: Lollypop crosses, chocolate praying hands, religious mints, WWJD gum. I think it's very creepy: who wants to see a kid sucking on a cross or nibbling on Jesus? It's a weird way to market and merchandise faith, in my opinion. I would not have like that restaurant to give me a mint. My husband is Jewish, and I'm not religious. There is a time and a place. When you go into a restaurant, you have the expectation that you're going to order food, they'll cook it and serve it, and you'll eat it and pay. To slip in a religious element, even if it is just a little testamint, is off-putting. I would have hated it. Maybe even resented it. Not because it's a huge gesture, but because it feels overzealous and sneaky and not part of the deal.

Patrick, As others have said, you have the choice to walk out the door of any business you choose.

I understand your point, Renee, but I do see some conflict between it and the words of Jesus, "If any man deny me...."

margot, You concede the right for the guy to be passionate about his religion; the mints are part of that. I'm sure he would tell you they're given out of love. Maybe not the kind you're familiar with, but love none-the-less. Accept it for what it is.

Patrick: I totally agree!

This reminds me of what Alaska Airlines used to do (not sure they do it anymore). They would place a little card on your food tray , usually under the roll or dessert with one of the psalms on it. It always bugged me and I would always return it to the flight attendant, saying "No thank you".
-Bill

Beachbum and others: You may have a choice to walk out of a business that does something you don't like, but in this case, OP said the mint came with the bill.

I was going to say the same thing, Beachbum. You've already supported that restaurant by the time you're given their "propaganda"; what good is walking out?

And you've conveniently failed to acknowledge my question how the religious propaganda differes from other forms of political progaganda. You see to be saying "it's OK, because I agree with what he was saying". What if instead the mint had a sign of the devil and said "there is no such thing as God or Jesus"? Would you still feel the same?

Again, following up on Patrick's point about what if you didn't agree with the message. (I've got to stop doing this!) Kind of reminds me of the ongoing school prayer debate. Great so long as it's YOUR prayer. What if the kids had to recite passages from the Koran?

But getting back to the original poster's situation, I wouldn't mind it so much if it was a restaurant where you might expect this, such as one run by a particular organization, or an ethic place closely tied to a particular religion. I think what concerned me, and presumably margot55, was that it was so out of place. You had no clue beforehand, so you couldn't choose to "vote with your feet" beforehand.

I'm thinking it's a hospitality and respect issue, rather than a religious one or even freedom of speech in general. At a restaurant, you have a certain expectation not to have the owner's views impressed upon you, making you uncomfortable. How would any of us feel if the mints had promoted a political candidate whom we don't support? Even if the testamints are offered "with love," it's misdirected, as margot's "visceral reaction" attests.

=-O

OHMYGAWD!!! Christians on Kauai!!!
Run for the hills!!!!!

Yet another reason not to go to Kauai.

Ain't it great that we live in a country where the guy CAN give out these mints and we can argue about it on an i'net travel board AND margot55 didn't have to take off her berqa face covering to eat the mint alongside her hubby? :-?

BTW, M55, check your e-mail and the US Mail. Happy belated "monumental" B'DAY you Wonderfully Wicked Wahine! >:D<

Judy, Anonymous, and Patrick - you have nailed my very issues exactly and very concisely - thank you.

Well said, Kal.

Kal - yes, all those things ARE wonderful, but I still remain troubled by this specific situation nonetheless; however, as stated before - WE DO INTEND TO GO BACK THERE, despite my strong feelings about what happened. Will certainly report back after we do to let everyone know if they've changed their "Mint Policy"!

P.S. to Kal - got your e-mail, sweetie - mahalo!

I'm with sfamylou, would you want to lick a cross? Or eat Jesus hands chocolate?

I went to a Thai restaurant the other day. There was a large Buddha with food offerings in front of it on display. I saw this as an opportunity up to discuss religion with my 12 year old daughter. We asked the waitress about the offerings and what they represented. And we talked about our faith and the differences. Is this any different from what Margot55 experienced?

It honestly never would occur to me to be offended by someone else's practice of their religion.

Granted, the mint was served after the meal; but margot can certainly choose not to go back. And I still don't understand why the mint couldn't have been accepted in the spirit it was given.

You may not believe me, but yes, I would agree that if I'm on private property, as long as a law is not being broken, the owner of that property has a right to try and sell or tell me anything s/he wants - political, religious, or otherwise.

"You see[m] to be saying "it's OK, because I agree with what he was saying"." And you seem to be saying, "It's not okay because I disagree or am uncomfortable with what's being said."

I know this will get me flamed... The religious right is continually accused of being intolerant. Where's the tolerance in the reactions of nonreligious here?