Advice on Moving-Boston vs. San Francisco
 

Hello. I know this is a travel website and I am posting a message about moving, but I would appreciate some first hand advice and trust you fodorites. I am also having a hrad time finding websites that offer real advice on moving. In the past I have found tons on being an expat abroad, but there isn't much for the U.S. OK. so hubby and I will be moving from Europe to the U.S. early next year and the 2 areas under discussion are Boston and San Francisco Bay Area. I am a U.S. citizen born in San Francisco and grew up in the Bay Area. Hubby is from Ireland. We have both travelled quite a bit around the world and have lived in London, The Netherlands and currently Paris. We have always settled just fine in every place, but we knew we wouldn't be there forever. This move will be for at least 5-10 years so I guess I'mm a little scared. Especially since I've never been to Boston. We have been researching jobs, cost of living and everything else that goes along with it. We've found that Boston is about 10% cheaper to live in than SF even considering a bit less pay. Do you think this is about right? My husband works in the pharmaceutical industry-clinical side and I have experience in Insurance underwriting, admin. and much else as we've been travelling for his job I've just had to fit in anywhere, although I have a background in Psychology. Most of the pharma companies we've found are on the west side of Boston. What areas can anyone recommend around here. So far we've checked reantal prices in Brighton. Also in the city Back Bay and Beacon Hill. Can we find a 1 br apt for $1000-1200 in a nice area? I'm also a little worried about 6 months of winter-hubby just says I'm soft. If anyone can offer any advice we would greatly appreciate it. I guess mostly for Boston as if we move to SF we know what to expect. So far my pros for Boston are a new place, closer to Europe and what can be a plus and minus is being right in the middle of both our families...
I'm finding I'm researching this move so much and yet in teh past when we've moved we had a week or 2 at the most to prepare! Kind of silly. I guess after a few years out of the states this girl is a little nervous to move back.
Thank you to everyone in advance. I think I've included most of the specifics, but feel free to ask more.
Thnaks,
Susan & Pat

Closer to Europe is a biggie on the plus side! You will not find a decent apartment in S.F for under at least $1500. We should all have such nice choices! Good luck!

I live in Boston so maybe I can help. I don't think you should have a problem finding a 1 bdrm apt in the Boston area for around $1200. Neighborhoods that are nice but less expensive are Brighton, South Boston and Jamaica Plain. The Back Bay or Beacon Hill may be doable on your budget, you'd have to check it out. Other places to consider are Charlestown, the North End or Brookline (where I live).

Plusses to being in Boston are an easier flight to Ireland and a very strong, large Irish community here. South Boston, although becoming more diversified, has a very large Irish population. I know many people from SF that have moved to Boston and vice versa so I think, besides the weather, the cities have a lot of similarities. Let me know if you have more questions regarding neighborhoods or Boston in general. I really love it here.

I hate cold winters myself, so would go with San Francisco. Even though it would mean most likely living a little ways outside the city (Oakland for instance) to afford an apartment.

For me I find I 'fit in' better on the west coast than back east. Something about the atmosphere and the people is simply different.

I used to live in New England and moved to Seattle years ago, as a point of reference for my opinion.

Re: weather in SF.

Mark Twain was reputed to have written: "The coldest winter I ever saw was the summer I spent in San Francisco."

mm

There's no reason to live in Boston proper (Back Bay, Brighton, etc.) if hubby will be working in the western suburbs. Save money and commuting/parking hassles and times by living closer to work; most of hte western suburbs are very nice.

Go to Boston.com and look at prices for rentals in the areas you're considering. For example, they have 400 listings for one-bedroom apartments in the Back Bay, of which only about 5 are for rentals under $1000.

I would wait to see in what town you or your husband gets a job before deciding on where to live in Boston.

I think Back Bay/Beacon Hill might be out of your price range. Will you have a car? Brighton is located between Boston Univ. and Boston College and has a high student population.

Brookline is an excellent place to live but can also be pretty pricey.

All of these areas, including Jamaica Plain are worth looking at. Sept. 1st is the big apartment turnover date because of all the colleges.

Two things to consider when looking at apartments--is there parking (if you have a car), and does the rent include heat. That can make a big difference in the cost.

There is a lot to do in Boston and the surrounding area, and it does seem like a good base for you to travel to see family. Good luck!

CW

I've just returned from a trip to Boston and really enjoyed it. Now, I haven't lived there so I can't compare my experience with the experts, but I would be very tempted to go for Boston.

I am also a SF native and, while I love living in the Bay Area, the thought of exploring a new place while I lived there would be enticing. Boston reminded us a lot of San Francisco, but has the added historical connections.

As someone who sounds like they love to travel, I think you would appreciate how close Boston is to so many other places and cities of interest (not to mention Europe.) Is there any way you can visit Boston before you have to make a decision?

Perhaps others can chime in regarding how they manage the weather (the only big drawback that I can see.)

Good luck!

We moved from the UK to New England, and have now lived in CT for many years. Hubby had job offers here and in SoCal, so we had a similar decision to make (we could not afford a scouting visit, so took the plunge sight unseen. Yikes!) Have to say, we love New England -- the changing seasons, varied landscape and terrain, many small towns if that's where you like to live, and some great cities close by, too. It had a more familiar feeling, which helped the homesickness. (We do take a break from winter with February visits to Florida!)

You mention that your hubby is in the pharma world, so you might want to also look at CT -- Pfizer is headquartered in New London, in the southeast corner of the state, and living is probably cheaper there than in Boston.

We've visited SF and enjoyed it, (for a visit) but New England is home for us. We're midway between Boston and NYC -- hard to top that! (YMMV, of course.) Good luck with the decision. For us, one of the deciding factors was the shorter flight time to the UK (and cheaper fares, so we could actually afford to go...;-))

Good luck in your decision, and keep us posted!

Are you just looking at cost or are you looking at atmosphere? As Suze has stated there is a difference in atmosphere between Boston and SF. SF is a very different mix of people than Boston--like Suze I find that I fit in much better in SF and that is the most important factor for me.

SAB, interesting, thanks for the post with similar feelings to mine.

Maybe in part it's because i was born & raised in So Calif. While I think New England is incredibly beautiful (lived in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont) I consider the west coast home (and could happily live in LA or San Francisco, besides my beloved Seattle).

Have an old friend from high school days (right after the boys came back from the Civil War) in suburban Boston who went to college and med school in Boston area, then went to San F. for internship-residency, then came back to Boston for a while and bought a house in Back Bay, then went back to Oakland. She said she was boomeranging like that because she was very attached to both places. I always thought I would either finally move to the Bay Area or back to Boston, and am still surprised I'm not either place. Boston always feels like home to me, no matter what, but the Bay Area often feels like the place I should have moved to when I got out of college (as I planned once upon a time...).

So it's a close decision for many people, which means -- good news -- you'll probably do well either place. You may feel like SF is home, SusanMac, but perhaps it's changed in some ways so that it isn't what you remember. And there's a lot to be said to be as close to Europe (Ireland) as you can be in Boston. But both places will require pretty good salaries, as you probably know.

Hi,

Our medium-sized pharmaceutical company (former biotech co.) is hiring in the clinical development department, here in South San Francisco. Your hubby should look at all the biotech/pharma companies in "Biotech Bay" (the Bay Area.) Also, I would be happy to pass along a resume within our company...if you post your email contact info, I can send you details about the positions and company.

Have you considered Philadelphia? It's a great city and has lots of Pharma jobs, the weather is warmer than Boston, and it's cheaper than both SF and Boston.

A major factor is how much weather matters to you.

Boston doesn;t have 6 months of winter. It doesn;t really have much more winter than NYC or Philly. But - unlike SF - or Ireland - it does have a real winter - with substantial snow and temps down to zero at times.

Personally - I love the change of seasons - and the differences between them (although I do like winter better than summer) but some people just do hate the cold.

Have you spent any time at all in real winter weather so you can judge?

Other than that - to me the cities are more or less a wash - with Boston having the advantage of being nearer europe - and SF the advantage of a little more sophistication.

In a simialr situation, I chose Boston over SF and haven't regretted it. But I think if I had chosen SF over Boston I wouldn't have regretted it either.

I'd say Boston is far more than 10% cheaper, though, especially if you are ever thinking of buying a house.

Have lived in both cities and think SF is a far better place to live. I think SF is much more welcoming and generally just a more hip city. Boston has a terrible infrastructure and traffic. The same could be said about the Bay Area but it seems somehow more worth it there.

I would plan on more than $1200 for a one bedroom in Boston if you want something really nice.

Thank you for your responses! They are very helpful and on a positive note. Yes, being closer to Europe is a plus-even though our holidays will be Ireland and SF to visit family-if it's cheaper to get to Ireland maybe I can sneak in another trip within Europe before or after our Ireland visit. I do agree a trip in winter may be a necessity. Are flights to warmer places from Boston fairly cheap at this time?
My husband Patrick has already researched the amount of Irish in the Boston area along with the gaelic football clubs(his last stint at football before he packs it up)! I'm hoping it won't be packing up because of injury to an already injured knee. Then I wouldn't have a skiing partner.
wyatt92-can you tell me more about some of the areas you suggested. esp Jamaica Plain, Brighton and Brookline. I heard there was a part of Brookline thats nice and a bit thats dodgy? not sure if this is true maybe I'm thinking of somewhere else? It looks like the pharma companies are on the west side. It may be a good option to live closer in that direction, although I would probably work in the city. We also don't want to be too far from the atmosphere of the city.
suze and a few others spoke about fitting in better. Can you give me an example of what people are like. What are the main differences? or explain atmosphere. We're sort of used to not fitting in while living in Europe and my in laws won't give up calling me the yank and that if we have children some day his parents won't mind having yank grandkids.... we are looking forward to settling in so yes atmosphere matters.
I know SF isn't the warmest place, but it doesn't snow. I wish we could make a visit before we decide, but there is no chance. We are leaving Paris Nov 1st and having our last long travelling horah for 3 months before making our way to the states and starting jobs and saving for a house.
What is important to us is what our lifestyle will be like. We live simply and don't need the big house, cars and just stuff. We do like doing nice things like travel, going to dinner and having many things to do in our surrounding area.
AZWildcat-my email is [email protected] if you wouldn't mind sending on some info about your company it would be greatly appreciated!
I love SF and the surrounding areas have so much to offer-not to mention my family is there. After so much moving around somewhere familiar would be nice to settle in. Although the adventurer in me would do fine to go to Boston. You all must think I have a split personality or something by not being able to make up my mind.
Thank you I appreciate all your comments you gave me more to think about.
Regards,
Susan

Hi Susan,

Brookline is a great area, definitely no dodgy places. It's an interesting place because it's really located within Boston (just west of Fenway Park) but it's a separate town. Super easy to get into the city and out to the west suburbs. It has a wonderful school system and that, combined with it's proximity to downtown, make it pretty pricy, although I do think you could find a 1 bdrm for $1200. The neighborhoods within Brookline that are closest to Boston and have a more urban feel are St. Mary's (Cottage Farm), Coolidge Corner, Brookline Village, the Longwood Medical area and Washington Square. I live in Washington Sq, just off Beacon St and I love the neighborhood. I'm right on 2 T lines so I can get into the city very quickly. South Brookline and Chestnut Hill are further from the city, don't have as easy proximity to the T and have a more suburban feel.

Brighton is adjacent to Brookline and it's a little less expensive. It's where Boston College and Boston University are located so there's lots of students. I wouldn't rule it out though, it's a safe area and rents are a little less. Jamaica Plain is located on the other side of Brookline and is an up and coming neighborhood. It has a diverse population along with some funky shops and restaurants. Rents there would also be a bit less than Brookline or other areas of the city.

I've probably left a lot out so let me know if you have more questions.

My two cents...

I too am an SF native. I went to college right outside of Boston and then lived in NYC for many years aftwards. It probably had a bit to do with my age at the time, but I had tremendous culture shock in New England and never felt like I fit in. It's very very beautiful and charming, but it felt very puritan and, most importantly, not very cosmopolitan. It is fairly racially segregated and felt very white to me. Not to mention the winters were longer and colder than many parts of the eastern seaboard. I was very happy to leave the area when I graduated. Because I also lived in NYC, which I absolutely loved, I've come to the conclusion that my inability to embrace Boston wasn't really about leaving California, but had to do with many of the factors listed above. I try to be fair and think that I would maybe feel differently if I lived in Boston as more of an adult, but even in post-college visits to the area, I don't feel the urge to ever live there again.

I think that you have some pluses to going to Boston. The location mid-way between Europe and CA. Maybe the Irish connection for your husband. I'm totally biased, but think SF is a better choice. I moved back here from NYC and I'm continually amazed at what a great place it is to live (living costs aside). There are year-round opportunities to go hiking and do outdoorsy things. The state is gorgeous with so many places to take weekend trips, etc.

As for attitudes, SF is wacko - anything goes. I feel that it is a bit more cosmopolitan than Boston, however both places are pretty liberal.

You can be happy in both places, really. It just depends what you want.

One idea to consider...

Our nephew lives in New Hampshire and commutes to Boston daily. Cost of living is way below that of Boston, which makes the commute worthwhile...about an hour each way.

As much as I like travelling to the Bay Area, I'd pick Boston over San Francisco as a place to live. I like the four seasons, the varied coast line within a short drive, mountains a couple of hours away (nothing like the Sierras but respectable skiing, the close proximity to so many different rural and urban areas.

One thing I meant to add in my post is that the proximity to family that I've re-gained by moving back to the Bay Area is really a plus. After having lived so many years away from family, it's nice to be able to go to family events that come up, but that you would never have flown back for if you were back east or farther away. This fact on top of the other things I mentioned are what made the move back to the Bay Area such a good one for me and my husband.

>>the varied coast line within a short drive, mountains a couple of hours away, the close proximity to so many different rural and urban areas.<<

That's an excellent description of the San Francisco Bay area !!!

Stu Dudley

StuDudley ==>

Interesting point! It would be fun to debate which coast has more and better of what. But I don't think that's what interests SusanMac.

JimM

>>>Interesting point! It would be fun to debate which coast has more and better of what. But I don't think that's what interests SusanMac.<<

A friend of my sisters is a travel editor for a Camden Maine newspaper. My sister drove her up the coast from Santa Barbara to Monterey. When she returned to Maine, she wrote that she saw more of the coastline on that one trip, than she had seen in 20 years covering Maine. She did not say which was the prettiest - just that in Maine, access to the shore is somewhat restricted. In California, there are many, many regulations that go to extremes to allow public access to the coast.

Stu Dudley

Boston has a better baseball team and think how close you'd be to Montreal -- if you have enjoyed living in Paris. I'd take New England any day -- having lived on both coasts. p.s. it's real lobster in New England, too.

You're getting great advice on both sides of this but as one who has lived in Boston for almost 20 years but grew up in NJ/NYC....Boston winters are DEFINITELY longer than other places south of us. It's not the December/January/February are that bad. Yeah it can snow a lot and be cold but that can be fun too. It's that Spring rarely arrives before early to mid-May so March and April (when you're dying for some nice weather) are generally very chilly, wet. For the past two years, I have been known to wear winter fleece gloves to my son's late May baseball games.

With all that said, I still love living here although i think SF is a great city. I do think we are less expensive and more convenient on a budget than SF. But we are definitely less sophisticated and not as ethnically diverse. Brookline/Brighton would give you more diversity and access to the city and some great ethnic restaurants.

Good luck with your decision!

My 2 cents for what it's worth...
I live in a beautiful coastal town about 45 north of Boston.

Though I love Boston, I would choose SF in a heartbeat, perhaps based on weather alone. The above poster is correct. "Nice" weather does not arrive until June and by November it's very cold and can snow. I got married late May and we were freezing at our photo shoot outside. One storm can drop 3 feet of snow on you, and temps may be near zero, but with wind chill, we had several stretches last winter that were 20 below. I love the snow and love to ski, but when you're up at 3am shoveling to get to a meeting because you know traffic will be crawling.... it's a little much. It's prime time for travel agents in the winter when everyone wants to escape, so I don't think you can expect any deals for trips away.

Boston IS also very Puritanical. An exaggeration, but it seems the sidewalks roll up at midnight. It's also much more a college city, for better or worse. I also find the people less friendly than those in CA. I'm a bit biased - I have never lived in CA, but SF is one of my favorite cities - after Venice and Paris.

There are lovely areas around here - Cape Anne, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, VT, Maine, but if you have family in SF, especially if you have been away for awhile, I'd think it would be nice to be back near them. CA is so beautiful and diverse!

If hubby does not yet have a job, and you plan to rent, you could always move if the area you choose doesn't suit you after a period. Good luck! Let us know what you decide.

Thank you all for your input. The description of areas is helpful wyatt92. We will look into these neighborhoods.
The talk of what each coast has to offer is an interesting one. I wouldn't mind knowing the differences although wouldn't be a deciding factor. One thing I loved about SF is there is so much to do in the surrounding areas-hiking, skiing, beach, wine tasting....
Going to baseball games again sounds fun, although being a SF native I always supported the Giants.
Is it difficult to find apartments with a garage?
Thanks again.

An aspect to living in the Boston area that I really love and appreciate is how many different places I can go for a getaway within a 3-4 hour drive. I can go to Cape Ann for georgeous beaches, fantastic seafood, antiquing, quaint shopping. I can go anywhere in Cape Cod and an island trip to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket where I really feel I've gotten away. I can go North to my choice of Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont for a weekend with endless options to explore and enjoy - skiing, sledding, lakes, rivers, ocean. I can spend a weekend in Providence, go to Newport and a but further I can easily go to NYC or into Canada. Over the many years I have lived here I have loved going away for 2-4 nights to B+B's, inns, luxury hotels and resorts, camping, log cabins, ski condos and anything I desire it is easy to find and do. Just thought I would throw this perspective out. Living here feels like all of New England is your home not just Boston.

If you come to dread winter and are able to afford it, planning to escape it to Florida, Carribean or Mexico sometime over the winter is the key. Also the more you can participate in winter sports the more you will come to like winter. For me personally what I hate the most about the weather here are the months of November,March, April. They are shoulder months and usually very dreary, cloudy and depressing months. When April comes I think it should be spring but it isn't. December, Jan, Feb I don't mind because as long as it is sunny out eventhough it is very cold and snowy I don't mind and these months tend to be sunny and bright, when it isn't snowing. The lack of sun in the months I mentioned is what gets to me.

I'll attempt to give my view of the differences of people without offending anyone.

New England folks are more set in their ways, "staid" is the word that comes to mind. Liberalness comes more from an everyone minds their own business kind of attitude. There is a strong and generous spirit and a sturdiness and self-sufficiency that I believe comes from choosing to live thru all those long harsh winters! That said, some of my best friends are Vermonters.

People on the west coast have a more laid back attitude. The friendliest shopkeepers I have met anywhere were in San Francisco recently. I believe the liberal attitude is truly embraced, not just as a side effect of keeping to your own business. Racial and sexual preferences receive more acceptance (mixed race couples or gay couples do not so much as turn heads in Seattle, San Fran or LA). I have a long-held personal theory that living in a milder climate shows in the generalized personality of its people (look at all the smiling native people in sunnier climes such as Mexico, the Caribbean, Hawaii).

These are my own extremely personal observations from living on both coasts of the U.S. (4 states back east, 2 states out west).

I agree with Suze. New Englanders are not puritanical in the sense that they disapprove of the way others live, more that they think it rude to stick their nose where it doesn't belong. There is also a sort of provincial thing. It's your family, your neighborhood, your city, your state, and New England in that order. Everything else is kind of not that important. Of course I'm generalizing but I have never found people in this area to be unfriendly just unwilling to intrude. As far as the weather, it's not the cold or snow but the constant wind from November til May that makes everyone walk very quickly with their heads down. No one will smile at you outside because their face may freeze off. This is not restricted to Boston. I have seen this phenomenon in Buffalo and Chicago also. You however know the SF attitude and only you can judge how comfortable you will be.

Hi SusanMac,

Suze and Shaz have some good points. I moved from the UK to the Boston suburbs over 3 years ago. I think I can take one more winter and I thought I loved snow!!

It's very, very cold here and we definitely get cabin fever even though we take 2 winter vacations in Nov and Feb (Hawaii, UK, California, Florida, Crete ...anywhere warm!)

I've been to California 4 times and prefer it to Massachusetts but chose to live in the NE to be closer to home (the UK). I'm not terribly unhappy here but the winters are brutal and really the travel times don't seem to matter much because, hey we only fly home twice a year at most.

Move to SF, be near your family, an advantage especially if you intend to have kids. You can take a vacation in Boston (preferably in the fall :) !

Good Luck!!_

Hello SusanMac, haven't read every post but just want to suggest that you check out the cost of living in SF before you make any final decisions. I love SF but you really need a large income to live in SF. On the SF Chronicals webpage which www.sfgate.com there is an interesting article under the Real Estate (they call the section Home & Gardens) about a gentleman that purchased an 800sq.ft. cottage. You might find it interesting.

But other then the financial end, the traffic and so forth it is easy living here. Best wishes to both of you with your decision.

San Francisco is most definitely the more expensive option (it would still be my pick but rents are out of this world).

Hi SusanMac,

I have never lived in the San Francisco Bay area (only visited it twice and it rained both times). But I did live in Boston and in the Boston area for quite a few years while going to graduate school (Boston University. I confess I do love Boston, even though I am a survivor of the Blizzard of '76 and was there as well in the Blizzard of '95-96.

Although what everybody else said about the harsh weather in Boston is certainly true - and while for me it was even harsher because I come from sunny and warm Brazil - I would not think twice about choosing Boston. I found the people there to be friendly and helpful, and not necessarily any more conservative than your average American (well, I livef in Central Illinois before going to Boston...). Actually, I find it strange to think that California would be any less conservative: look who is governor there!

As to places to live in the Boston area, I would consider Watertown. It did not use to be as expensive as other parts of the city (I think it was cheaper than Brookline) when I lived there, and it was of easy access both to the Western suburbs as well as to the downtown area.

But when I spent time there in the 90's, I chose to live in Gloucester, on Cape Ann. A perfect choice!

Thank you for all comments. Suze you did a great job of exolaining without offending I think. I now have a better understanding. Even though I will have to get used to snow at the moment we are leaning toward Boston. Thanks to everyone comments about what to do in Boston and the surrounding areas you have me excited about exploring a new place. My husband and I are looking forward to settling somewhere for awhile after moving 3 or 4 times in 3 years to different countries! Hopefully where ever we decide that housing bubble will burst!

Good luck Susan. Let me know if you need any further info on neighborhoods, etc. Boston is great, you'll do fine.

While I live in the SF Bay area and think it's a wonderful place to live,
Boston would be a choice if I were younger. MA is big in the internet world and housing has got to be cheaper. You still are in a blue state and have a serious Irish community to support you.

hey, thanks. my pleasure. this post was interesting because it made me think about what i love best about both coasts. while my own living experiences were Los Angeles to New England to Seattle, it's similar i feel to your question.