a move from midwest to California, need your help!
 

We are a middle class family of 5 who has always lived in the Midwest. Husband and I are in our early 30's. I would describe us as having traditional values (kind of like the TV shows from the 50's), I stay at home with 3 small kids, husband and I are both college grads, most of our social life centers around neighbors, family and church. Our only hobby is golfing and we do sing in the church choir.<BR><BR>My husband's company has decided to expand to California and they're offering him a sales job (he'd be the first) anywhere in California he chooses. It sounds great to us but really not sure which areas to consider. We are in the preliminary researching stage and would like to select perhaps 4 areas to consider, then come out for a week and visit the areas we've considered. I don't know which areas to even begin to consider....North, South, East or West. Can anyone familiar with California offer us ideas of regions we might want to consider. We will most likely rent a home in California as opposed to purchasing. Thanks so much! Patsy

The first thing that came to mind when I read your post is that you are probably in for the sticker shock of your life. I hope that your husband's company is offering him an incredible raise to move to California because he will have to make a significant amount to support 5 people on one income and still be middle class. <BR><BR>I would look at the smaller towns in the central valley, maybe outside of Sacramento. I assume that in setting up a sales office, your husband would have to be near a population center rather than out in the sticks. The cost of living is less in the central valley than in southern California or in the Bay Area.

I think northern Ca might be your best bet. As J above says the housing is very expensive but the central valley does offer some better deals. <BR><BR>There are also some small towns in Ventura county in southern CA that offer a pace and lifstyle that you may prefer. They are located along Highway 126 in a little valley that is very nice.<BR><BR>Good luck

Wow, what an exciting and kind of scary prospect for you and your family! I think you and your family need to take a trip to California, spend at least 10 days and see what appeals to you. As J Correa states, the cost of living in California is significantly higher than the midwest, but you probably know that already. California is a very large state and the weather, housing prices, political climate, school systems, landscape, etc. vary as extremely as the difference between snow capped mountains and the desert. Pick some criteria and try to visit a few areas in the state that match. It sounds like a close community will be important to you, so I'd steer you away from the dense urban areas. Give us a little more info and perhaps we can make a better recommendation.

I agree with J Correa that the Sacramento area would be your best bet in terms of cost of living and as far as your values are concerned, Sacramento is also a better fit since it tends to be more on the conservative side as compared to some of the big cities (Los Angeles and San Jose). Sacramento is near the base of the Sierras about a 2 hour drive to Lake Tahoe. There are also plenty of golf courses in the area. Although the summers can get hot (90's), it is a dry heat. Nothing like the humidity in the midwest. <BR><BR>San Diego would also be a good place to look into because the people there also tend to be more on the conservative side and the cost of living as well as the coastal location are a plus. It will be more expensive than Sacramento. <BR><BR>In terms of income, I think that it will be very difficult, if not impossible for a family of 5 to live on one income, unless your husband will be making something in the neighborhood of $120,000/yr. or more.

Thanks so much for the quick responses!! My husband will be guaranteed $89,000 his first year. Hopefully, if all goes well it will increase some each year thereafter. Luckily, both our cars and student loans, credit cards etc. are all paid off. We really don't live too high on the hog so will try to budget accordingly so I can stay home with my kids for the next few years until the youngest gets into school. It sounds like the $89,000 won't go too far but we'd still like to try! Patsy

Someplace like Sacramento would be best for you considering your income/values. $89,000 would be fine in the Sacramento area because (even tho' there are a lot of Bay area transplants that have skewed the numbers) it is still a gov't town. Being the Capital means there are thousands of state workers plus lots of local gov't entities and the Feds. The reason this is important is that a gov't middle manager makes about $65,000 per year. And they would certainly be called middle class. That income level doesn't go far in LA/SF/San Diego - but is fine in Sacramento.

I think you will do fine with $89K a year in the Sacamento area, esspecially if you don't have debt or an expensive lifestyle.

In California, housing decisions are all about compromise. The truth is you could live in any area on $89K per year, just depends on what you are willing to compromise on. You will not be able to buy a home in most major areas, only Sacramento offers you that opportunity.<BR><BR>Start your research on these 4 areas:<BR>Sacramento<BR>San Francisco Bay Area<BR>Greater Los Angeles area<BR>San Diego<BR><BR>They all have access to airports, freeways and varied housing options. Personally, I would stay away from Central California with the exception of the Sacramento area. The central part of the state has no airports, which may be necessary for a sales person Getting from the central valley to any of the urban areas above is a major, time-consuming hassle. Also, it is not the prettiest part of the state, which is why the coastal areas are the most expensive places to live.

sacramento does get pretty darn hot in the summer. <BR>if you wanted closer to the ocean, consider la mesa outside of san diego. it is a nice community. (it can get hot occassionally in the summer too but you are only 20 minutes from the ocean.) the commute to/from san diego can be a bit of a pain during rush hour but if your husband has control over his schedule, he could work around that.

I agree with Sacramento and its surround.Lots of families have transplanted there in search of affordable housing. There are many new communities sprouting up. Rents will still reflect the housing market in the area. Housing prices in most of California are ridiculous(greens fees only slightly less) In all honesty, it may be hard to support a family of 5 on 89K in California and live the way you probably are used to in the midwest.That sounds obscene but I think it's a realistic appraisal. Also ...the state budget has gone through enormous cuts and will still endure more. Unfortunately one of the hard hit areas is education. The state supposedly has limited class size in the primary grades but according to my teacher friends that may well take a big hit.

I have to chime in also that Sacramento would be a safe bet. It's somewhat more conservative then other parts of california, and as stated above also, 89K won't go far in Los Angeles, my husband and I own a one bedroom condo in Hollywood and were just offered 250K for it.. all 800 sq. feet! I think with children and all of that, you definately would have a tough time of it in San Diego, Los Angeles, or Bay Area.. even Orange county is pretty high up there. <BR>Good luck .. definately come to CA before you jump in, my parents are moved here from the mid-west 40 years ago and are STILL getting used to it... (they wouldn't go back though.. can't imagine shoveling snow again).

If you go to www.homefair.com it has many interesting calculations for people who are relocating where you can compare for cost of living between the midwest and California towns. Also gives info. re schools, crime and lots more. Might be worth a look.

Such great information!! This will all keep me quite busy! Is anyone familiar with Fullerton/Brea area in Orange County? A by chance acquaitance 2 years ago mentioned this area and how much she loved it..? Should I look into this area as well? Thanks, Patsy

There was a long thread about the Fullerton/Brea area a few months ago. try a search. Otherwise, I agree that it's very difficult to live on that amount in San Diego. Not impossible, but not easy. To get an idea of the cost of renting a house in San Diego, look at the web site of our local paper at www.signonsandiego.com. On Saturdays and Sundays there are lots of ads.

I don't want to be a party pooper but $89K for a family of five in Orange County would almost put you at poverty level. I now live in the midwest but lived in Cost Mesa (Orange County) for several years. If I were ever to move back to CA, I would look North and like several people above would highly consider Sacramento area. Cost of living is much better and your reasonably close (90 miles or so) from San Francisco or Lake Tahoe and Sking. While I do not dislike SoCal, I would only recommend it to single or couples w/out kids. PS: A nice house in a decent area in Orange County will easily cost $400K (probably closer to $500K or $600K). And that's a house with approx. 2,000 sq. ft.

I would check out: <BR><BR>Upland/Claremont<BR>Carlsbad<BR>Petaluma<BR>Thousand Oaks

I'm a Midwest transplant (Hoosier) who's been in Calif. for 17 years now. Lived in Bay Area &amp; Santa Barbara, while going to college. If you'd like more feedback (since I'm a fellow Midwesterner who came from a traditional family) &amp; like the other poster stated...*still* adjusting to life here. It's not the conservative vs. liberal part...as I'm pretty liberal! Instead, it's the cost of living &amp; missing the strong seasons we had back home. Also, neighbors generally keep to themselves more (in metro areas) than they did back there. However, this varies a lot! From one neighborhood to another, it can be very different. And, one can always try to get neighbors knowing each other more, too, by having block parties, etc...altho' again, not that common out here. Lastly, perhaps you could let us know how long you see yourself staying? If this would be a short-term situation, then, your choices might be different then if you want to be here a long time. For example, if you only have one year out here, maybe go for the 'experience' of it all &amp; pick something very *different* then home...like I did when I first came out here &amp; went to school. Santa Barbara is so gorgeous &amp; a terrific size! (Metro area...150,000) If you only had one year &amp; were renting &amp; it's not a matter of impacting finances forever, I'd look at little 'paradises' like Santa Barbara. You *must* visit it, when you're doing your state survey. It's 2 hours north of L.A....start of Central Coast California. If your husband has to fly lots &amp; lots, it's not as goood a choice as some places though. Other top picks...being a Midwesterner &amp; seeing lots of Calfornia, as I have? Nevada City (not too far from Sacramento, but with a small town feel, while at the same time, great culture...lots of urban transplants!) Has nice fall colors, too! Grass Valley is close by &amp; also well-regarded for families. Within Sacramento area, more....check out Davis, where UC Davis is. Cute older homes, etc. My main complaint w/the newer regions of Sacramento are all the somewhat boring housing developments. (same applies to certain regions in Southern Calif...like Orange County.) Places like Nevada City &amp; Davis have a real sense of a 'town' to them &amp; nice, older architecture. I enjoy the Bay Area, but it's sooo expensive. So, again, if it was short-term...or, you're okay w/stretching a LOT for awhile...then, it's a spectacular region to live in. Offers so much...many close-by escapes (ie Monterey, Point Reyes, Napa, Gold Country, redwoods, &amp; a bit further away...Lake Tahoe &amp; Yosemite.) And, some towns have an old-time feel. Lastly, Southern California...besides Santa Barbara...then, a good family, area is Thousand Oaks/Westlake Village. However, this does not have older architecture...which may or may not matter to you. Hope this helps! If you'd like to share more ideas, just let me know how to email you. Thanks! :-)

Again, thank you! We are planning to make this a permanent move...hopefully. I read an article that stated there are actually some towns (not just little pockets within the town) where the majority don't speak English. Is this possible? It states that most things including voting ballots, DMV test etc. are printed in several languages and very easy to live in California without speaking English. I attended U of Chicago and am very used to and love diversity etc. but this is quite surprising. Do I need to learn a foreign language to survive living in California? Do most residents speak several languages? Am I going to have difficulty not speaking a 2nd language? It sounds like I'd better get studying if this is the case. Patsy

No, you do not need to learn a second language to live in California. Many official forms are printed in English on one side and Spanish on the other. Other languages are available on request.

If having forms printed in English and Spanish will bother you then you might want to reconsider relocating to California. <BR><BR>Also, as PamSF stated earlier, we're having a real crisis with the education budget right now. You should follow the story in the papers and see how it turns out before school starts again in the fall. With three kids that would be a big consideration for me. And private school will probably be out of your budget.

Spike is absolutely correct in saying that there is a crisis in funding for education in California. However, there are still very good school districts, and not very good districts, with most in the middle somewhere. Housing costs tend to be higher in areas where the school district is very good.

Most Californian's primary language is English. I speak English and Spanish and it has been so long since I have spoken Spanish that I have forgotten so much that I have trouble with the language.

i would consider san diego. it's beautiful. i think you could survive on 89K a year, but then, i don't know what the expenses are like for a family of 5. look in north county - i think it's more reasonable than central San Diego. <BR><BR>golf in san diego is HUGE. so many courses, and callaway golf is in carlsbad. san diegans are outdoors 10 months out of the year (if not year round), so expect an active lifestyle and plenty of sunshine. <BR><BR>you don't say what your husband will be selling, but pharmaceuticals and biotech is very big in SD...if your husband's company sells either of those things, you'd be set. <BR><BR>also, i hope you were kidding about the language thing. i guess things are different in other parts of the country, but CA is very diverse. San Diego has a large spanish-speaking population, but you don't need to know it if you don't want to know it.

p.s. you mentioned that your life revolves around your neighbors. i want to warn you (and may catch some flack for doing so): neighbors aren't that friendly in California. I grew up in CA, and rarely knew the names of my neighbors. I did have neighborhood friends when I was young, but the truth is that people tend to keep to themselves (I lived in San Jose and San Diego until 2000). You are more likely to meet your friends through your interests and your children. Neighbors are not unfriendly, but don't expect a freshly baked pie on your doorstep.

I agree with Wendy about neighbors. I've lived in CA my entire life. We've usually known the neighbors well enough for them to watch our house while we're gone and to chat a bit in the driveway, but we've never really socialized with our neighbors. There are some neighborhoods where the people know each other well, but I don't think that is the norm. Like Wendy said, people aren't unfriendly or rude, they just tend to keep to themselves.

I have lived in CA my entire life. Grew up in central CA and have lived in So.CA for over 20 years. The L.A. County area is good for business (I am in sales as well) and I think that your family would be really happy living in the Santa Clarita valley (Valencia area north of L.A.). Last data showed this area as the 5th safest place in America for a city of it's size according the FBI. The public schools are excellent (I have 2 kids)- many CA distinquished schools in the area. The temp runs about 5 degrees hotter than the LA basin, but we do not get the &quot;June gloom&quot; that hits the basin from around May to July. You are close to the beach (35 minutes to Ventura or Santa Monica or 1 hour from Santa Barbara), 1 hour from the mountains and really close to downtown L.A., Hollywood or the westside. There is real sense of neighborhood in the area and it is great place to raise kids. Many members of the law enforcement and people that work in the entertainment industry live there because it is close enough, but still far enough away from L.A. Housing prices are going up, but there are still quite a few really nice homes that are reasonably priced. San Francisco would not be my choice and Sacramento is OK, but you are stuck in the San Joaquin valley (hot, fog) and pretty far from the coast. If you decide on that area, the areas around Folsom and Rocklin are nice. Have fun living in CA!

Glad to hear that I'll be OK with the language thing....although, it certainly wouldn't hurt me to learn a 2nd language for my own enrichment. I taught elementary school for several years prior to starting my family so I'm all too aware of the crisis that many a district is suffering. As for neighbors, we have become close to several neighbors here through our kids. If for not having kids, we too probably wouldn't have met many of them so we'll do just fine there and won't expect any pies...LOL. Just found out this morning that we are coming into some unknown cash from my husband's grandfather (died before Christmas at age 98). It should be around $25,000 which will really help our savings account!!! I've having a ball reading up on all these great areas. They all sound great! Thanks so much!

I would also suggest that you consider the Sacramento area. I would look a little north in the Roseville/Rocklin area. It is a little more conservative and may be a little more like home. These cities are in Placer County, so it will cost a little more to live there. It should still be in your price range, though.

I grew up in Pittsburgh, PA, but moved to the Sacramento area (Roseville) 23 years ago. We raised two children here and overall have been very happy. The weather is certainly better in San Diego and other areas closer to the coast, but the cost of living is lower here and most people would consider it safer, both in terms of safety and lack of earthquakes. I enjoy going back to East to visit, but have never been tempted to move back. If you have any specific questions, feel free to E-mail me:<BR>[email protected]

patsy,<BR><BR>it sounds like you guys are all set. now, go to san diego! you'll love it.

Dear Patsy,<BR>I too moved from a more modest environement (both in surroundings and family structure to Cali). I have lived in Sacramento, Davis, Tarzana (San Fernando Valley) and Lake Arrowhead (outside LA).<BR>For your type of family (which is what my parents had) would be great for either Davis or Lake Arrowhead.<BR>Davis is primarily a college town, but it's small and very safe. It's the kind of place where you can leave the doors unlocked and you don't hear any city noises. Lots of pollen though so watch out if you have allergies.<BR><BR>The other option is Lake Arrowhead and surrounding areas. That is where I live now and prefer it. My husband is also in sales and has access to all of LA and San Diego from this location, reaching the farthest areas in about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. The real estate is shockingly reasonable up here, and the climate is nice. Most of the year would have an average of 70, never getting above 90 in the summer (and only for a few days if it reaches that). We do get some snow in the winter and it's nice to have all 4 seasons. It is also the type of area where you can leave your doors open, as it is a nice community oriented area. We have lived here a year and know all our neighbors and are active in the community. They also have excellent schools (curriculum) in the area. This is where Michelle Kwan lives, went to school and trains, and the high school cheerleading goes to national finals every year.<BR>If you want to more specifically, I'd love to help you out. My email is [email protected]<BR>Hope you find what you're looking for!

Everything is about negotiating. I would do some research and find out exactly what your husband's profession is paying on the west coast. My thoughts are that you could probably get more than 89K per year, plus perks like relocating expenses, etc. I realize that this is more about which area, but needed to pipe in to make sure you don't settle for anything more than you deserve. Anyone else???

I was raised and schooled (through college) in the Mid-west, moved to CA at 22, went back for 3 years about 5 years ago and returned because despite all the troubles out here, life is pretty good, but ...<BR><BR>Schools:<BR>Contrary to teacher union spin, the problem with CA schools has little to do with funding and more to do with stupid spending. There are decent public schools, but nothing compared to what you are more likely used to unless you are coming from and under achieving urban area. Since you stay at home, you will have the time to supplement your kids education which is generally needed even in so-called &quot;good school districts&quot;. The higher achieving districts here (80 %-ile) translate into about the 50 %-ile of the national averages.<BR><BR>Housing:<BR>If your move is permanent, you will want to buy a home. Word of warning, California is very pocketed. You can live 3 blocks from bad crime areas and spend $1M for your home (West LA). You should definitely rent or have your husband's company pay for short-term housing (at least six months). You would be even wiser if you could get them to pay for 2 or more areas for 3-6 months each.<BR><BR>Areas:<BR>If your husband is in sales, he will most likely have to travel, but will it be driving or flying?<BR>If flying, consider north San Diego or south Orange county, good access to Lindberg Field and John Wayne airports. Also consider Ventura, because Burbank and LAX are not too far. I have friends who live in Elk Grove (near Sacramento) who chose the area because of access to the airport there for similar needs.<BR><BR>Santa Barbara is an interesting option, but it is sooooo expensive there. The locals are also a bit full of themselves. I lived there for nearly 4 years and wouldn't go back except for long weekends via the train. I would maybe suggest slightly further north, i.e. Lompoc/Santa Maria through San Luis Obispo but you will be isolated from any city life and only puddle jumper airports.<BR><BR>Politics/Taxes/etc:<BR>Our governor and most legislature people are mind numbed union goons. From 1998, California's government grew 40%. During dot-com boom revenues were good but now ... things suck. They never consider cutting spending only raising taxes. Wouldn't it be great if we were able to spend stupidly and generate big debts and then demand pay raise because we are incompetent.<BR><BR>You will find transition hard, but after several years you'll wonder why you didn't do this earlier.<BR>

Wow Patsy, you've gotten some really great advice but I'm with nolists. I would first think about where your husband's greatest sales prospects are &amp; how he'll be travelling to make sales calls. If it's by air, try to situate near one of the smaller airports. if by car, figure out where his prospects are, get a map &amp; a compass &amp; draw some circles. Travelling is one of the biggest issues in CA. The traffic is terrible. Also, there are companies that specialize in relocation. Maybe your husband's company would spring for you to consult with one of them. Good luck!

Patsy - several years ago we move to California and lived in the Rancho Cucamonga area. It is near the Ontario airport and has affordable housing. The neighbors were very friendly and we really enjoyed the area.

Learning a 2nd language would be great, especially if you plan to get back into teaching some day. But what you really need to do before coming is practice your driving. Find some neighbors and head out onto the freeway. Make sure that you are all in SUVs and have cell phones in hand. Now, line up 4 lanes wide and leave .2 feet of space between the vehicles in front and in back of you. Get up to 70 mph and slam on the brakes several times. Weave from lane to lane trying to get ahead of others. Honk your horn and apply your makeup while talking on your cell-phone and eating a bagel. (NO CREAM CHEESE, that stuff is too fattening for Californians!) Oh, and a very important tip, DO NOT use your turn signal until AFTER you have changed lanes. It's just not chic to let anyone know what you are about to do! Now, do not exit the freeway until you are a few feet PAST your exit. Then take a sharp right and zoom over the median strip into the exit lane. THE SECOND that the light in front of you turns green, wail on your horn to get the car in front of you moving. <BR><BR>And left turns...well, we'll save that for another day.

Barbara,<BR>Isn't it stinky down there? So many times when I am in Ontario or Rancho it smells like cow manure (dairy farms). <BR>It would be interesting to know if you are in a part that doesn't get that foul wind!!

Unfortunately, I have heard about the terrible CA governor and the over spending in CA. California has the highest taxes and yet the bond rating just went down to the lowest of the 50 states. It does sound like the state is close to bankruptcy....not that this will ever happen. Now my husband is getting &quot;cold feet&quot; because of what he's been reading about the political and financial problems within California. He's decided to put off any relocation decisions for a month or so. If we do go through with it (which I suspect will happen) his company will pay for all our relocation expenses etc. Anyway, I'm kind of putting things on &quot;hold&quot; for several weeks and then we'll decide for sure one way or another and take it from there. You all have given me so much help!! I really have been reading up on all these great areas.

Yes, California has financial problems right now, but so do most other states. In great part it's due to Federal policies which are not controlled by the Governor. I'm not a fan of Gray Davis, but it's unfair to give him all the &quot;credit&quot; for this. Also remember that California has the fifth largest economy in the world.