Hi Suzanne. I just got the Harbor Court on hotwire for some guests coming to town next week, and Kal, a fodors regular, has gotten it a few times through hotwire too. Of course, there's not guarantees, but I don't know what other hotel it could be.<BR><BR>Sean, Suzanne is from New York City. I think we can assume she can handle herself in the Mission. My cousin (female) lives there and has never had a problem.

I agree that anyone with good radar and a little common sense shouldn't have any problems in the Mission. <BR><BR>

I've got bars on my windows and a homeless guy who recently decided to live on my front stoop. I used to live on the edge of Harlem. I take the subway after midnight. I don't think I'd feel uncomfortable in the Mission district! But I think I'd rather stay close the water.<BR><BR>Can anyone comment on the Marina area vs the Embarcadero? I assume that both are close to ferries/boat tours/bicycle rentals? <BR><BR>PS I definitely want nightlife (relaxed bars or brew pub-type places) but I doubt I'll be able to stay out past 9 or 10...I can never shake the east coast time schedule. So...if bars close early it doesn't matter much to me.

suzanne,<BR>You've gotten a heap of great suggestions here. I would second spending some time in the Castro, both for the mellow neighborhood and beautiful examples of Victorian and Edwardian architechture. If the weather's good, take a cab from Castro & Market to the top of Twin Peaks and walk back down.<BR>I know you mentioned brewpubs, but if you are into wine at all, check out the Eos wine bar at Cole and Carl Streets(right next door to the Eos restaurant). This is in Cole Valley, - a nice small neighborhood on the east side of Mt. Sutro and close to the Haight. You can order anything from the restaurant menu and have your meal in the more relaxed setting of the wine bar. My favorite thing is to drop in late in the evening for chocolate cake and a glass of port.<BR>Welcome back, and have a great time!<BR>

Marina is a somewhat sterile, upper class suburban neighborhood. Not really all that exciting for a visitor.<BR><BR>The Embarcadero on the other hand is more of a commercial area. It pretty much closes down at the end of the workday.

<BR>Suzanne, despite Sean's naysaying, I think you'll be perfectly comfortable walking from the BART station to the area around 16th and Valencia, should you want to go to any of the many very good restaurants right near there. As a fellow NYC dweller, I would avoid walking on Mission itself at night, but that stretch of Valencia has a lot going on and should not pose a problem. I don't think anyone was recommending you stay in the Mission.<BR><BR>Check out http://www.walking-tours.com/cityguides/ for info about those free tours - very interesting and not the same old stuff.

Aloooohaaa suzannee and S'spike.<BR><BR>What a co-inky-dinky!<BR>Just returned from a 3 day conf. in SF!<BR><BR>The past 3 days were absolutely gorgeous weatherwise! Shirtsleeve nights.<BR>It was so clear you could see the gullpoop on Alcatraz and the rivets on the GGate!<BR><BR>I just checked out Hotwire and saw the "red B" which shows it's a "boutique" hotel, for $82. The past 3x we've purchased it, it's been the Harbor Court. <BR>For a few $$ more and if ya schmooze 'em just right, they may upgrade you to a Bay Bridge view room.<BR><BR>A lot of good restaurants close by, Boulavard, Chimaya, Palamino's, Gordon Biersch Brew Co. to mention a few.<BR>Short walk to all transit.<BR><BR>This trip found me at The Orchard Hotel on Bush. Very Nice hotel with good, friendly service. Large Rooms.<BR>About one block up Powell from the St Francis and the Sir Francis Drake.<BR>It's restaurant, Solea, prepared a great lunch...Very good continental breakfast (included ham, other cold cuts, cheese, hard boiled eggs cereal as well as the usual cont b'fast fare.) included in the room price. A block from Masa's.<BR><BR>We ate at Tiramisu on Belden and then at Le Central on Bush. Great meals at both. Excellent service at Le Central especially since there was around 22 of us for dinner.<BR><BR>Back to work...109 and counting.<BR>Mucho mahalos,<BR>Kal

Great job Caitlin! Why don't you recommend to suzanne that she visit the tenderloin as well? How much more evidence do you need to finally realize that the Mission is a dangerous area?

Aloha Kal! Hey, Michael Bauer just reviewed Solea in the Orchard Hotel and had lots of nice things to say about it, but said it could use a few more diners. We might have to check it out soon.<BR><BR>Sean, perhaps you'd be game for a fodors get-together at some of the hot spots in the Mission and we could turn you around on it? Let's see, we could:<BR><BR>dine at the Slanted Door or Bruno's or Firecracker or Foreign Cinema or Delfina (my fave!) or Blowfish Sushi to Die For or Luna Park or La Taqueria (always makes the top of the list for best burritos in the city) or crepes at Ti Couz<BR><BR>We could have martinis and manicures at The Beauty Bar<BR><BR>See a movie at The Roxy<BR><BR>What do you say? I promise we will keep you safe and sound. You can't knock until you try it with the right group of friends. Perhaps Suzanne, Kal, J Correa, Grasshopper, Lucy, Oaklander, Kam, J, L, Caitlin and Snarla would like to join us? I think we're long overdue for showing some fodorites how to have fun in SF. Anyone game?

What a great idea! There are so many people on this board from the bay area, why not?<BR><BR>But Im going out of town on the weekend of Oct 19-20 and Thanksgiving week, and if the A's make the playoffs then Im going to that-so other than that , Im game.<BR><BR>Ive been meaning to go the Foreign Cinema anyway, and itll be a way for some of you to see the good side of the Mission!<BR><BR>C'mon Bay area fodorites, lets make it a date!

Susan Spike, Thanks but no thanks. I used to have a rotation as SF General Hospital. I am all too well aware of the "ambience" of the Mission District.

I just booked the Harbor Court Hotel on Hotwire for $82 - yay! Couldn't have done it without you guys. Thanks for the tips. I'm out there Sept 21-23.

Hooray for Suzanne!<BR>Be nice when you check in, I'm sure that will be no prob., and if they are not full they may move you to a Bay View for a slight charge. <BR><BR>They told us $30 extra one time but someone in our party (ahem, Hint: It wasn't me) got a "case o' the cheaps". Said if we were staying more than just one night she would....Shouldn't that work the other way around?<BR>Last time were were ready to pay the extra $$$, they were booked for some charity marathon and the Dodger series.<BR>Snooze=lose!<BR><BR>Sue'spike,<BR>If you wanna put together a SF-Mission GTG, I'm game. Betsy may be too...as long as she doesn't have to do the GTGing like the last one and we'd love to meet Kam so we can discuss the general ugliness of Napa Valley. ;-)<BR><BR>Oaklander- Outta town on Oct19-20..You going to NOLA for the 49ers game?<BR><BR>Mahalo,<BR>Kal "Any excuse to get outta town" Kahuna

And here's a website I found recently re "art stuff":<BR>http://www.thinker.org/<BR><BR>And another brewpub I just remembered is "The 21st Amendment" on I believe 3rd St.<BR><BR>Also, see if your local bookstore carries "7x7-SF" magazine. Pretty slick and very helpful.<BR>www.7x7mag.com/start.asp<BR>

Hi Suzanne. I have a couple suggestions for you. First, I'd like to reiterate that in spite of Sean's insistence, the "hip" part of the mission is pretty safe. This is the area on Valencia St. between 16th and approx. 18th, including parts of 16th and Mission St. The mission is a big neighborhood and there are plenty of places I wouldn't want to walk around at night (24th and Mission is a definite gang hang out) but I think from what you said that you don't require a white-bread environment. The mission is one of my favorite places to go out in the city, with plenty of good bars and restaurants.<BR><BR>Someone also mentioned visiting the Castro and taking a cab to Twin Peaks. Well, it's not an expensive cab ride or anything (under $10), but you'd have to pay to get back and for the guy to wait. I live in Twin Peaks, so I'll offer up my bus route: catch the 37 Corbett at Market and Castro. It kind of meanders around (20 min), but if you wait almost to the end of the route, and get off at the top of Crestline Drive, there is a short trail that takes you up to the top, where you can then walk up the trails of the two peaks. You can catch the bus back down at the same place, or walk down the steps across the street to Burnett (which is the start of the line and where the bus sits before it's time to go). I'm lucky enough to see this view most every day and it's beautiful. Don't bother though if you can't see the top of the peaks/Sutro tower from the bottom. The fog really socks us in sometimes.

Actually Im going to Hawaii for my mother-in-laws birthday bash! Flying on Greyhound-I mean SUNTRIPS-only paid $170RT from OAK-HNL<BR><BR>BTW,.......the raiders rule!!, But I grew up in the late 80s and early 90s when the only game in town was the niners and they grew on me bigtime, So I think most people in my age group like both.<BR><BR><BR><BR>

I think that we should be careful in suggesting the Mission to Suzanne, as she is traveling by herself. I think that it is well known that it is a dangerous neighborhood.<BR><BR>Mel, the gangsters don't just stay in one place, as you have alluded to. What's to say that the criminal element will not invade the "hip" area only 8 blocks from the so called "gang hang out." I think that we should not be suggesting to a visitor that she be wandering in such an unsafe area. I agree that for a resident who knows the area, it might be okay, but even then I do not go to the Mission. I have seen all too often the type of criminal activity that occurs in ALL areas of the Mission District.

Sean, do you have anything to offer this travel board besides dire warnings of danger in SF? Do you visit other cities? Because I never see you comment on anything else. You seem to be here for one purpose only and I have to wonder why??? Have you considered counseling for your irrational fears of San Francisco?

Suzanne,<BR>I have to agree with everyone about embarcadero section. i only made one trip to SF and had a great time. I stayed at the hyatt right across the street from the historic ferry building--it is beautiful at night. Every type of transportation is right at your doorstep. I see all of the negative posts about SF and can only say our stay was the most enjoyable time we ever had in any city. have fun. dela

A regular here, I happen to live in SF, so I think that I know what I am talking about when I say that the Mission is not recommended for a tourist, especially a female travelling by herself.