Well, I'm certainly not going to get into a discussion on what "noteworthy" travel might entail -- we all travel for different reasons!

But I agree that people contribute different things to this forum, and I think that's a good thing.

And I agree that personal animosity serves no one well, and that it can discourage new and old posters alike. I don't mind a bit of criticism now an again -- if I inadvertently post something that is inaccurate, for example, I appreciate it when someone points that out (nicely). Too, I think that debates can enrich us all. But to me, those are very different things than attacks.

BTW -- both IBanna and ibobi are monitoring this thread -- such great news! So keep offering your ideas about how IB can help us and how we, individually, can make Fodor's forums better for all of us.

I would imagine a lot of users access the forums using tablets rather than desk or laptops. I know I certainly do, especially when on the road. The development of an App, rather than just a mobile site may enrich and enhance the experience. The TA is next to useless but I find the Wordpress app really useful as I can draft posts offline and post when next online. For those who do write trip reports when travelling, it would make life a lot easier.

In answer to your question, what would make me want to stay with Fodor’s, some new life, preferably with a wider age demographic, more diverse opinions and above all, greater activity. I could be wrong, but I imagine that is what the powers that be are striving for. So far, their efforts (and I do welcome most of them) don’t seem to have reversed the decline. Maybe the world is moving from forums, to Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat etc. Even Facebook is now rarely used by anyone under the age of 40.

As a mentor of mine was always fond of reminding me "if you do what you have always done, you will get what you always get". Just maybe the changes implemented so far have not been radical enough.

I used to visit the forums daily and found lots of useful info here. However. when the format changed I never quite made the transition. I was finding posts on threads I was interested in were often quite redundant, very little new info. Also, now I am in well to my old age I do very little independent travel so much of my research is into small group adventure tours offered by various tour companies. Perhaps I am overly sensitive but I find there is sometimes an air of superiority from those who choose independent travel over a set itinerary with a group.

As a Canadian I would be insulted if US and Canada thread were combined. I used to respond to questions on the Canada threads but there again, found the questions covered the same ground and I didn’t have sufficient current knowledge of the destinations to make a meaningful reply.

The Air Travel forum was what got me interested in this form in the first place. I still have it bookmarked and check it now and then and always when I am going to a new destination. Air travel is so complicated these days I like to fly armed with as much information as possible.

I like what I've always gotten here. ;)

IMO alot of the opinions expressed hear are a bit outdated, written by well intentioned people who long ago established the way they like to travel. Therefore I am always reluctant to engage, sometimes I do post but it almost always ends in an argument eg a recent 'disscussion on coats for a woman for Europe this Christmas' became a argument of whether or not Australians wear thongs all year round. Its rubbish. And all subjective. I think that most travel forums (including TA) are becoming irrelevent anyway. Young people get their travel info elsewhere. The few posts I have seen here from young travellers is almost an after thought, one was looking for things to do at their destination, while on the plane. Its different now. My grand daughter is just 18 and off to Borneo and Thailand on Boxing day for 5 weeks on her own. She has booked (and paid) for it herself, knows where she is going and has booked some of the hostels, she has asked her cousins about their recent year long stay in SE Asia for their advice. So my point is that forums like this are, by their very nature a limited interest thing, that has had its time.
I enjoy the conversations and sometimes come across a trip report that is well written and interesting, but I get really bored with the same posters banging on endlessly about the same thing, like the poster who ALWAYS goes on about driving after a long flight, or the constant advice about jet lag...really enough.

Inreresting comments, missdonkey!

I'm not sure I follow your logic -- why do other people's opinions make you reluctant to engage? Why would whether those opinions are outdated or current affect your willingness to engage? Or why would whether others have established the way they like to travel affect your willingness to engage? I'm not trying to question your reluctance -- I'm just trying to understand it, if you are willing to share a bit more on the issue. (And of course, you don't need to do so.)

Does this statement mean that you believe that we ought to be able to agree about everything travel-related? From my perspective, there are some facts (like one's options for getting from place to place or what's on the UNESCO World Heritage Site list) -- but it seems to me that many issues associated with travel are subjective, and while that doesn't mean we need to argue, it would suggest that people will disagree. But maybe I've misunderstood your point? Please help me understand.

Sounds like your granddaughter is about to begin a wonderful trip! I wonder -- did you ask her whether she consulted, or considered consulting, Fodor's Forums? Maybe she would have some interesting insights into why she did or did not look here or its value (or lack thereof).

That would probably be me. ;) And it seems to me that if really were "enough", then no one would be asking us to comment on itineraries that call for them to drive immediately after an overseas flight. You are, of course, free to ignore me or my comments, all or just those ones!

I think of arguing in the sense of defending a position. Not in the sense of attacking someone. A lawyer argues their case.

Arguably :p if a person won't argue their position they might not hold the position strongly. Of course you can also convince them to see your position.

While I agree younger people have moved away from text based forums I don't get the impression they've abandoned the concept. An 18 year old may be looking at instagram images to decide but many slightly older are engaging. The difference I see is more that they don't stay and become part of the community. That might be because they're busy with other things.

Yes Nick that might be possible, on the other hand maybe they aren't really interested in your opinion, because of the way its argued. I don't think they are just looking at instagram either, in fact I know 'they' don't. There is a whole other world out there that we aren't part of, as it should be.
And I'm sure kja, you don't follow my logic, because you don't choose too, you seem interested in views that are similar to your own, in my opinion. Thats why I don't really engage here. Its clicky and parochial. Thats why it won't be around long. You get hardly any traffic because people don't feel welcome.
And yes I did ask my granddaughter about travel based websites in her planning. She didn't know Fodors and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to her.

"Its clicky and parochial."

You may be on to something. I have been a member since 2006, mostly asking advice at first and writing trip reports. From 2006-2012 we lived in Washington, D.C. and I would chime in with contemporary observations for a few months after we moved, then felt like I was no longer qualified to contribute because I was too far removed from real-time. We moved to Vienna, Austria for 7 years in 2012 (moving back to the U.S. this past June) and I focused on answering relevant questions based on contemporary experience, and will likely stop in a couple of months for the same reason. But many Fodorites feel differently, and perhaps Fodors will become a place where "old"* travelers go to reminisce.

We traveled quite a bit while in Europe, but rarely did I post about our many travels to France or Italy because they didn't seem like they met the well-curated and "approved" (or, parochial?) itineraries of the seasoned Fodorites. I shared instead about our travels to places less traveled.

*As for clique-y. Though I am 51, I was informed by a Lounge Lizard that I am "old." In the short months since returning we have taken a couple of off-the-beaten-path long weekends in the U.S. that were incredibly rich in history, sights, and culinary delights. But who wants to read about the travels of an "old" person?

Yes, fourfortravel, do report on your weekend trips. I imagine 51 is well below the median age of these forums especially the Lounge, a place I rarely visit unless in need of some light relief! Indeed, it would be considered Positively adolescent by some standards.

Not all of us are set in our travel ways as you seem to be convinced Missdonkey, but what if they are? People will only tend to contribute in their area of experience whether that be independent treks in remote places or an all inclusive cruise. I happen to travel independently and rarely take tours. If I say to someone say "I would consider visiting xyz because it is, easy, more flexible and cheaper" it is because I believe tha t8 be the case, rather than believing that all package tours are anathema.

I agree that some forums seem "clicky and parochial", some more than others. but consider that it may just be people that have known each other online for years and may have even met face to face and have formed "relationship" Some particular forums seem to go out of their way to exclude newcomers either intentionally or unintentionally. Personally, I find it unacceptable that some ridicule the questions asked by newcomers as stupid, forgetting that there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers. Some of us do go out of their way to welcome new members.

Missdonkey, you do seem very anti these forums which is fine and entirely your prerogative. As I mentioned previously, I too have become a little tired of these forums in recent years but have decided to stick around and actively participate in the hope that my own contributions will go some way to breathing some life into the forums. I urge to do the same and become an active participant. I would also urge you to consider asking your granddaughter to seek advice re her trip to Borneo. I for one have spent many months on the island over the years in some of the more remote areas as have a few others like Kathie. We really need the new blood here.

As for clique-y. Though I am 51, I was informed by a Lounge Lizard that I am "old."

That is taken out of context entirely. Anyone can go read the thread and see how the conversation went.

I (who do not consider myself a "lounge lizard" but am the person you are referring to) simply said that 51 is not "young"... because it is not. You claimed how "young" you are because of dress size, energy, fitness, etc. Many people, not just me, participating in that discussion agree that over 50 is simply not young any more... but that is not a BAD thing.

Not really very nice to misrepresent things to make your point.

banging on endlessly about the same thing

That's because new people do come to this forum (gasp!) and often ask the same questions that have been asked & answered a million times before. So to accommodate them we say it again.

A Somewhat Modest Proposal
 

I see that this thread has two themes: Trying to improve the site and also trying to increase traffic since clicks are money. A secondary theme is to discuss the Lounge as turn off or irrelevancy or a benefit to the site. These discussions are too narrow.

The internet is always changing. Forums are seen by some as old hat. Just tweet, post mems, tag friends, churn. Actual discussions with opposing views and new ideas , not so much. Yet this is the real heart of Fodors. TA has no threads that are allowed to go off topic, no real arguments of substance, no real followup to any given thread. It's great for "Where is the Relay store at CDG Terminal 2?" but little of experienced travelers helping a newbie plan out a three country vacation. We are not like that.

So, in view of trying to avert the feared death spiral that hangs over this thread, I suggest two things: One, remake not the format but the Fodors concept. Bill Fodors as the place for in depth travel advice and discussion. Get those PR guys and gals into gear. Make up a motto or tagline that will appear whenever Fodors ia mentioned.. Advertise to attract traffic (yep, that will require monitary investment). Fodors must distinguish itself from one shot visitor that wants a simple answer.

Then, add another function to Fodors. The Lounge is sometimes disparaged "because it's not travel." Exactly! The Lounge brings traffic from established users, but, being closed, no bucks for clicks. The stuff I suggest above is not my modest proposal. This is: Add general discussion forums that will allow all registered users to converse in depth. Politics: sure. Humor: Of course. Home economics? Car repair? Whatever: Absolutely. "But this will just bring trolls and rancor." Unfortunately, it could, so this enterprise extension will require a niceness police force. Maybe even pre-posting moderation of new members and previously disciplined members. There must be a way to do this as there are plenty of sites that remain rancor and troll free.

Will IB want to try these things? I don't know. I do know that when an established enterprise goes into decline, it must renew itself or die. I don't want Fodors to die.

What do you say? What does IB say? Should I copy this post into a new thread? If so, where?

Speak up!

AJ

This thread has 2.5k views! But only 55 posts.

So how to make all those lurkers participants? What would make people reading but not posting do something different?

Precisely!

Views without posting generate click counts, nevertheless.

Oh, right! How to increase clicks AND how to increase participation, and those may be separate issues.

Hi all,

Just to comment on some of this:

• The Fodorite Lounge isn't going anywhere. It's very popular with those who use it, and we worked to figure out new guidelines for entry, which we implemented early this year. The off-topic area of the site will be accessible to all, after they become Fodorites, i.e. core travel posters. We have no plans to create a new "lounge" just for new users who don't want to talk travel; there are plenty of places outside Fodor's for that.
• New posts and new user registrations are rock steady since the debut of the new forums. We definitely lost some people who either did not keep their logins handy, or who simply decided they didn't want to bother to learn the new layout; but since early 2018? Very steady participation.

Thanks all!

Paul

I would, for one. And I definitely don't think 51 is "old". Older than 16 or 26, but I was far more active with long distance/strenuous hikes at 50 than many people half my age.

If you want to get jumped on, try posting that you like cruising. I'm about to head out on a cruise with a 30-something friend in a few weeks, we will share independent guides in all but one of our ports. I will only report back on Acapulco, since it's the only port stop I asked about. It was subbed out for Costa Rica at the last minute. Turns out there is a ship's tour that does what we had planned on, anyways. Many people are planning to stay on the ship but I think we're sneaking off (my travel partner might be breaking some kind of rule for federal employees since there is a Level 4 warning for all of Guerrero.)

@ ibobi: Many thanks for that information! :star:

I'll wish you a most sincere bon voyage, and will otherwise not touch the topic of cruises. ;)

LOL...thank you.

suze, your full response in post #122 of the conversation is (emphasis mine):

"unless you think 51 is old

Yes I do think 51 is "old". You think that's "young"?"

Indeed, it is not really very nice to misrepresent things.

:lol:

Anyone can go read the entire thread for themselves (Greta Thurnberg Sweden is the title) you don't need to disrupt this one further.

Geez, I went and read that thread. That is exactly why I left the lounge last year! Never again will I venture into that forum.

mlgb--Try posting that you like to backpack, as in climbing a mountain and sleeping there;) People with absolutely no experience in that will comment, negatively.

Miss Donkey
I enjoy the conversations and sometimes come across a trip report that is well written and interesting, but I get really bored with the same posters banging on endlessly about the same thing, like the poster who ALWAYS goes on about driving after a long flight, or the constant advice about jet lag...really enough.[/QUOTE]

I agree, we get it but I am flying from east coast not West coast. My nieces are the same. They do trips everywhere and never go to a trave site like Fodors or TA.

OK. I've been on the road for a number days, often w/o good internet in Northern Mexico. First off, I apologize for some repetion and disorder in my response and will try to "tread lightly" and not get deleted. Here goes.
I agree with #38: " I think Fodors is getting full participation from its members, unless they want to change their profile."
I don't agree that Googled and 2nd or 3rd hand information or uninformed opinions have much value to making the forum a better place. Consider that Fodor's itself boasts "​​​​We hire local writers who know their destinations better than anyone else, allowing us to provide the best travel recommendations for all tastes and budget in over 7,500 worldwide destinations." Over 700 writers in all. Should not Forum participants adhere to the same criteria? Can you imagine their (Fodor's) credibility if they'd boasted: "We get our information from our crack team of Googler's so you don't have to." The problem with passing on Googled information, as one's own or otherwise, is that it's often: a) wrong b) biased c) out of date d) incomplete e) fake f) self-promotion. Geez, anyone that found Fodor's can surely manage a search on their own, can't they? I'd be insulted if I was the recipient of such simulated "expertise" and I think legitimate Fodorite's deserve no less. I'm of the opinion, from my experience here, that a question posted to Fodor's comes after some earnest searching, not before.
A couple of recent questions on the Mexico forum indicate that people very much value first-hand information over Google regurgitation. (Speaking of, I like this definition of regurgitation: {repeating (information) without analyzing or comprehending it.}
Here's one, (Zihuatanejo, Mexico) :
"Would appreciate your thoughts and comments ( from people who have actually been) on the Xtapa/Zihuatanejo area"
Here's another (Acapulco, Mexico):
"For anyone who has actually traveled in Guerrero or follows the news (not people who just go to Puerto Vallarta, for example)"
I recall a question where a poster was trying to decide between I think Panamá, some other place, and San Miguel De Allende México, where I live. The forum response was from an individual who had never been to any of the places asked about by the OP, nor was the responder transparent about having never been to any of the places in question. I suspect this goes on in other forums. Even if a poster is transparent, in many cases their input is not useful when compared to boots on the ground experience. It just isn't. As a PS, I don't care if people visit or even like Panama or San Miguel. Just be honest. So the dilemma is how can a newbie poster know if a response is transparent or not? Is not some self-policing on the part of other "regulars" in order? Yo, bro, just keepin it real.
I think Fodor's is a quality travel forum, and has found a good niche probably in 3rd place behind TA and Thorn Tree. That's not necessarily a bad place. It could be better, for many of the reasons I've highlighted.
Of the 3 travel sites I mentioned, this is what I use and look for when I'm planning/searching:
TA: General information, and for some hotel quotes/reviews and mostly restaurant recs, though I'll go elsewhere to book a hotel. Even then, it's well known that there are fake hotel/restaurant reviews and fake posts. Google, Booking or Hotels.com I think has better/more valid hotel reviews than TA. All the more important that Fodorites be honest. And the "roll calls" and "only 'x' more sleeps" are particularly wearisome. Likewise multiple DE input.
Thorn Tree: More hostel/budgety stuff than I do these days, but good info on off the beaten path of places in Mexico I don't already know. Which are few. But there are some pretty sharp contributors there that can sniff out fakes a mile away.
Fodor's: Country specific info, plus more intimate, first-hand responses from posters such as mmeperdu's, crellston, Daniel Williams, and mlgb, all of whom I'd trust for planning a trip. (I'm leaving out some; apologies). I really enjoy the Mexico trip reports (my travel realm these days, though Ecuador is on the BL) from those that make the effort, particularly because they made the effort, and I try to acknowledge said effort.
Google: Reviews of hotels, restaurants & sites in the local language. I like it a lot to supplement the above.
Speaking of participating more fully. #40 mentioned "I would be happy to share my trips and tips, but I don't travel in a noteworthy way by Fodor's standards, like what people would photograph and blog about." I disagree. I for one would like to see some posts w/pictures of PV, a place I've not been able to return to for some time. I've never seen a pic of PV here, even for all the hype. I say let the person reading decide whether it's in a noteworthy way or not. Is that not the essence of participating more fully?
Crellston suggested a couple of improvements. Mine are: 1) Let us be able to see the original question and previous responses (if any) when we attempt to answer. I'm unable to scroll back, but rather have to open a new tab to see the original thread. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? 2) Give us an opt out in settings that allow us to get notified or not on threads we've participated in/on. Rather than unsubscribe after the fact. Sometimes I'm one and done. If I wanna come back, I don't need to be nagged. 3) The Lounge. It isn't travel related. It's social media frivolity and nonsense. Just keep it off the travel page. Is MySpace still a thing? Funny, I've seen in other travel forums (TA) how some are loathe to be on Facebook. Is the Lounge any different.
My final take: I'm not convinced the forums need more participation simply for the sake of it. I do think it's imperative that Fodor's posters should strive to only speak from 1st hand experience and not dilute the content with 2nd & 3rd hand info which is, by its nature, of dubious origin and motive. I like that about Fodor's, and it should remain that way. That's what separates it from the other forums. At least from TA. I've been to every Spanish speaking country in North, Central and South America, save just a few (excluding islands in the Caribbean). I could spend all the live-long day posting in those forums, but I don't see the need. Or the point. I have plenty of first-hand experiences, but none as current as those of others, thus not terribly relevant. So I refrain from posting just to make myself be heard. Or to add to my post count.
It's a stretch, but to quote from "Field of Dreams", "if you build it, they will come". Keep content honest, first-hand and relevant, and posters will come. Otherwise you don't need them.
It wasn't a great movie, so maybe a not-so-good analogy?
Apologies for the long-winded response.

kja, but it is like beating a dead horse. You should see all the people flying into Orlando after drinking their weight in G&Ts on the plane and then head to the rental cars. I get it but we have worked shift work our entire life and know if we can or can't drive. We are huge advocates of public transportation and do that when possible.

I still think the one post a day kills off newbies. We still have spam in the am.

Your #1 -- you mean after you click REPLY you want to be able to scroll back up through the thread? Just use Quick Reply instead, and you can!

For your #2, go to My Settings, Edit Options, Messaging & Notification, Default Thread Subscription Mode. If you make a change, be sure to SAVE your choice at the bottom of the page.

Search is tricky, because Google literally spends billions of dollars to do what they do, and people are used to the most accurate and complete results in the world, in 1/10 of a second. We unfortunately don't have billions of dollars, lol! But we will keep iterating and making search better. It's a constant battle.

I'd love to do an app -- maybe someday! For now, we have a mobile-optimized skin that works great for reading and posting, which is mostly what people do on their phones.

The Suggested Topics feature is about to get a major machine-learning-assited update!

Funny you should say that about photos. We have a photo gallery feature we'll be adding to the forums soon!

New users can actually make up to 5 posts/day initially, and that number goes up quickly. There will always be some spam on a forum, but man, it's a LOT less than it used to be -- and this throttle control, plus the moderator team, is why.

Ibobi, I seem to recall that there is a way to harness Google's search function to consider only the content of a single website. Is there a way to use this ability in such a way that it becomes the search function for this site?

If you do a google search and add

+fodors

it will do that for you.

But you'll have to search on google/Chrome itself.

What I was thinking was can this function be incorporated directly on this site as this site's search function. Could Google sell this function to IB? Or a link on this site under search that would open this type of Google search?

I continue to be intrigued by the responses to this thread! It's funny -- many people's pet peeves are things about which I have no strong opinion, or in some cases, see as a strength of Fodor's; some things that I find anathema are on other people's most-liked lists. I return to a point I made early on, and still believe: Fodor's is, IMO, a stronger and more valuable place in part because we are all free to provide the advice or comments that we think best. I also remain convinced that we are at are best when we are kind to one another, even when we disagree. JMO.

I'm also delighted that ibobi continues to chime in -- thanks so much!