Tourism Leakage
 

Hadn't heard of the expression before or how one-sided the flow of money was for all the package tours that tour companies put together for Europe. Since most of us here tend to book our own accommodations and seek out local restaurants, I would imagine few here and on other travel forums would be doing packaged tours.

But there must be a significant number of tourists who visit Europe that way.

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023...edium=referral

I can see a lot of Americans or other nationals visiting for the first time buying packages or some kind of organized trips. These group tour companies must get terrific deals to use certain hotels, restaurants, coach companies for them to be able to net 80% of the profits? (or is it 80% of the actual price that people pay for these packages?0

Just an astounding figure.

It may be the case that people who plan their own trips are in the minority or maybe even outliers. Yet online travel booking companies like Booking.com and Expedia are obviously making a lot of money too.

I did one trip a long time ago with American Express. Nothing memorable about that trip either. First time to Paris/Europe was this university extension "course" where you nominally take some classes during like 1 or 2 week trip, where we stayed at I think it was some kind of dormitory or former convent or something like that in the 16th arrondissement. We got breakfast and we took courses on French language or art (one was about the Belle Epoque period). That was only an hour or two per day, though it was a long time ago.

They gave you a packet with some basic guiding info, like how to find them relative to the nearest Metro, how to get from the airport, etc. Very useful for first time international visitor. And we would go do some extra things with other classmates. I tagged along with two other people to a few things, renting a bike and riding around and they talked me into going to Epernay/Reims, spending the night there. They had done some kind of research or one of them did. No Internet access for us, no smart phones then and much fewer people who could speak English.

Still you had to figure out the Metro and some other things for yourselves, whereas in a packaged tour, I would think you'd be taken everywhere by coach so maybe less incentive to venture out on your own.

Return home, you wanted or at least I did, to research more trips. Can't recall if it was the Fodors forum or elsewhere but one of the first things I learned is that holiday apartments may be a better choice than hotels for some people, on some trips.

​​​​​​​

don't get me started on cruise ships

pollute the water
feed/entertain customers on board
use imported cheap as chips staff

reminds as the old adage about HQ staff

"seagulls, fly in, eat your food, squak a lot and crap on you"

My late husband and I did a couple of what you are calling “packaged” tours in Europe. One we enjoyed and one we thought was a rip-off but that was because we did not look at what was offered very closely.

there are, IMO, various reasons people take them and they are good reasons for the people who prefer to do that.

I had people I knew and worked with who seemed intimidated by the fact that I travel ALONE and to some foreign country. I always try to reassure them that I understand their hesitance and that I think they could do the same things I do if they do some research , etc. but I have never been sure I was being very convincing despite my intent

I used to think I would be interested in doing some of the Road Scholar trips when we were retired, but they seem to have gotten more expensive than the old Elderhostel trips. Also, since the pandemic we have known people traveling on group tours who have experienced Covid spreading during the trips.
Road Scholar does offer interesting programs. So does our college alumni office -- but very pricey.

It is my impression that group tour packages make a lot of their money with day trips options.

That article is all over the place. First it complains about your money going somewhere else if you book a tour implying you should travel independently. Next it complains about people booking short term places like Air BnB's which is people traveling independently. Then they suggest you solve tourism issues by going someplace you don't want to go instead of the place that has the things you want to see (don't go to Croatia, go to Albania). They talk about going to one of the hundreds of Greek islands that don't get much tourism while neglecting to tell you those islands are not easy to reach and would be difficult even for experienced travelers to reach.

The article seems to think you should only go to undiscovered places that don't have the infrastructure to support travel. It also implies it's a European only problem. The US gets people from Europe booking tours to the US. It's like telling people don't go to NYC, go to Albany.

True, don’t think it’s realistic for people to skip Barcelona and visit Girona or Tarragona instead.

People heard of Barcelona, not those other towns.

Did anyone notice that "Washing machine leakage" is a related topic?!

As many travelers, we made. a transition from fully guided to fully DIY touring. As we aged, we started reverting to tours again. I can see the point but even though the tour company is making the most, there are still local people working in the venues. I do object to hordes of people descending from a massive ship; feels like overfishing.

This is another one of those articles saying my way of travel is better than yours. Along the same lines of be a "traveler not a tourist" which I always find annoying. We haven't taken a fully guided tour - yet - but who knows how our travel will change as we age. This article did make me think back on our day trip to Devil's Tower in Wyoming last summer. We spent the previous night an hour away, used my husband's senior lifetime national parks pass, spent several hours hiking, made sandwiches from our cooler, ate in our car and then headed to South Dakota. Our contribution to the local economy was little to nothing. The local ecomony benefitted from the many tour buses that were there at the same time as us and those passengers shopped at the gift shops and stopped for lunch in the nearby town of Hulett.

Anybody writing under the heading of "Conscious Travel" is just a little preachy for my blood.

For sure.

I'm fairly certain the term "tourism leakage" came out the academic side of the hospitality industry in the last 15-20 years. I think there's some "there there" with regard to over-touristed places and it's certainly the case in developing economies but the linked article is pretty fuzzy on all fronts. There's little substance and no explanation for what comprises the percentages (which is as high as 95% elsewhere) of leaked money.

It and pretty much everything else google surfaces for tourism leakage is really just part of a marketing pitch to travel differently. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But for now it's a fairly niche segment of the market.

I was on a packaged tour in Mexico, the tour guide encouraged us to buy local souvenirs, to eat in local restaurants. Not all tours are created equal.

Cruises bring some business to locals, they are not 100% bad.

Don't get me started on the cheap British airlines like Ryanair and Easyjet, not to mention the proliferation of Instagram "travelers".

It was the British who invented mass tourism according to Wikipedia (Thomas Cook). Because it's affordable to the "masses".

Article said the 80% comes from some UN agency.

Yeah some tourist destinations are chafing at over-tourism. Some residents in Barcelona are talking some action and supposedly there's some backlash on Mallorca as well.

Certainly understandable, tourism taxes infrastructure of a place, the overcrowding, traffic resulting in higher prices and rents for people who live in these places.

But I'd always assumed these places more or less made that bargain, to bring in tourism money, they were willing to endure some of these ills. Certainly it's the city and the region funding all this tourism outreach. Who pays to keep all those tourist offices open and run all those ad campaigns?

Especially with cruise ships, yeah they're not dining as much in local restaurants or staying in local hotels, not only not paying the hoteliers but also not paying the hotel taxes. But it seems undeniable that a lot of businesses organize around cruise ship arrivals.

We all have a travel style to suit our needs. Seeing the world is such a joy, and there's no right or wrong way to do it.

Amen to that!

I took my first ever coach tour of a location. I had concerns that it was not my style. I confirmed that it was not my favorite travel style - but I'm glad I took the tour. It was a tour of the Holy Land, led by someone I knew and I really enjoyed being with a small group on a HUGE coach / tour bus. There were only 16 of us on a coach with more rows than that and even couples sat on opposite sides of the aisle. Plenty of room to stretch out. I got tired of the in and out of a big bus though.

I DID cringe a bit over how encapsulated we were. We stayed at a hotel that was full of other folks on similar tours. The dining room tables had place cards for our company and/or the specific bus we were on. The buffet dinners were really weird. I suppose an Americanized version of several options that always included pasta noodles with thin sauce next to it, always a beef, chicken and fish entree option. Big salad bar. Lots of choices on both the buffet and salad bar. The food was good but just strange.

During the day we stopped at locations for lunch that were pre-arranged. Those varied from small family owned restaurants to big banquet hall type venues. The small family owned restaurants reflected local cuisine. The one in Acre / Akko was the best. Tucked in behind and literally under the mosque - which we had visited shortly before.

The bus stopped twice (different days) at the same family owned gift shop (which also owned the banquet hall lunch stop) for "shopping time". That is common, I know. The same happens with private drivers. I don't really mind it. I'm glad to know the tour leaders have confidence in the quality of good and fair pricing.

But there was virtually no "spill over". A couple of people went out to a local market to buy sodas and snacks. We did stop at three local markets and spent money there. But being in a big group on a schedule limited the time to get out and shop and explore new restaurants.

It was the perfect timing and the perfect for me as I was not up to par and it was a treat to sit back and be taken from place to place. I knew and liked our guides. They really liked the local guide they've used before. So overall it was a good tour.

But, because it was that kind of tour, flexibility was limited as was time for spill over spending.

If I go back, I would like to do a mix of independent planning and private driver.

Sheesh, P_M, why ya gotta be so un-self-congratulatory? Haven't you been here long enough to know that there are right and wrong ways to do everything, and that if you don't do it the right way, you shouldn't be allowed to get out of bed in the morning?
[(

Thanks, I saw that. What I meant is that comment is badly cited and out of context.

I'm not advocating one way or the other on the topic.

Thanks starrs.

Lucie, :lol:

the author is a :content and values writer"

>> Next it complains about people booking short term places like Air BnB's which is people traveling independently.

That bit was "avoid Airbnb hosts who buy up swathes of homes". So, think about an airbnb management company being the host for multiple properties in your neighborhood. Having transient neighbors can be problematic. People who bring crime, noise, and no interest in the community. Demand from those companies increase home prices, which might seen good for some homeowners who live there. But that demand can make the properties unaffordable for people that you would rather have as neighbors. Yes, the article is a bit all over the place.

Excellent post, P.M. And travel styles may very well change with experience as well as age.

That's happening with me.

Guess I'm the only one who thought this was going to be about failure to heed the "don't drink the water" advice. BTDT

As to the actual post, I think it's got to be up to local government to figure out how best to deal with travel operators and then DO those things. And to higher levels of government to get out of their way. Someone needs to be looking out for the long term well being of those living there.

If locals are going to sacrifice their peace or their infrastructure, there's got to be a return on investment and a way to extract those costs from those that damage those things. Maybe restricting bus parking to easily controllable areas so that they must go through some sort of substantial payment system to make the place a practical stop. Or charging a steep exit fee to deboard a cruise ship. Resorts should be taxed to an amount that offsets their drag on the local economy. I'm at a bit of a loss how you'd fight group discounting at hotels and restaurants though or even if you should. Maybe go after outside ownership instead of discouraging successful business practices,

A lot of cruisers fly in early, spend money on hotels and restaurants at the departure port. A lot of cruisers shop and eat in port, hire independent tour guides, use Uber and taxis, pay admission fees at museums, and sometimes splurge out more than cheapo tourists who fly in on budget airlines and perhaps stay in hostels or international chains. A lot (if not most) cruise ship excursions (those you book with the ship) are contracted out to local tour companies and use local transport and restaurants.

That's in addition to the income that goes to the cruise crew who are often from impoverished countries and send a good chunk of their salaries back home.

As far as taxes, a lot of ports impose taxes and fees at each port of call.

I'd think at that point, tourists haven't actually become cruisers (or staff) until they've boarded and set sail. In the originating city, they're just visitors like everyone else. It's the next stop(s) on the route that'll get the brunt of it.

It seems like if the locals in cruise port stops aren't realizing the benefits they'd like from the visits, then maybe either the port fees on cruise passengers are too low; or there should be an additional price to deboard and enter the city; or the benefits of allowing cruise ships (and maybe big bus tours too) aren't reaching as many people as they should.

Me too.
I have a photo of a cruise ship that looks like it landed in a pasture on St. Croix.
We were headed down from the hills to shop in town for jewelry. When we saw the cruise ship was in, we turned around and waited for another day.
Now I wonder if I would enjoy a cruise...but I don't want to be one of those people in the crowd that swamp shops in small places.
Still struggling with that.

I'd like to agree with you P_M but I made a lot of mistakes on my trip to Paris. I guess the mistakes give me stories to tell.

exactly what is wrong with flying from A to B more cheaply?

they also give information about how to do it better next time.

It certainly contributes to over-tourism with its attendant problems.

[QUOTE=Fra_Diavolo;17442349]It certainly contributes to over-tourism with its attendant problems.[/QUOTE

oh ok let’s make it harder and more expensive to get to the place you want to go even if you already live there

See the excellent doc 'The Venice Syndrome'. It addresses this issue head-on through the lives of 5 disparate Venetians.
It'll get ya to thinkin'.

I am done. the card-carrying member of GETT

I am talking about the hordes of tourists for example in Portugal. Probably 80 people in line were from cruise tours (which one can tell from their badges) and the other 500 had gotten there some other way, like Ryan Air. It's mostly the Brits going on their cheap package holidays.

[QUOTE=Dukey1;17442350]We're talking about it in the context of "tourism leakage."

As somebody who has used Ryanair, Wizzair and EasyJet several times, I'm feeling defensive here. Hey, if I had the means, I'd gladly pay the cost of a ticket on a major airline to get from one city in Europe to another; but I don't, so there we are.

The budget airlines may not be a barrel of laughs (or a gathering of Luis Vuitton-carrying travelers staying in spacious suites at 16-star hotels where the staff waits on them hand and foot and treat them like they're royalty), but I, for one, am glad they exist.

I like Iceland's rules. They only have a limited number of hospital emergency beds, so will not allow more than one ship above a certain size into the full international waters so they can manage an emergency.

[QUOTE=LucieV;17442364]As somebody who has used Ryanair, Wizzair and EasyJet several times, I'm feeling defensive here. Hey, if I had the means, I'd gladly pay the cost of a ticket on a major airline to get from one city in Europe to another; but I don't, so there we are.]

Yeah, It's been awhile, but I've also used Ryanair a couple of times, and don't feel bad about it. If local governments have an issue with over tourism then they need to address the problem, rather than blaming budget airlines. Until then I'll weigh if the extra cost is worth it for a major airline or find a more economical option. For Portugal, I choose to fly TAP which was much more budget friendly than the alternatives. I'd rather spend my money at the destination.

Yeah, I like that one, too. Canned lima beans are not a substitute for fresh asparagus.