I Love Oaxaca, but...
 

My dilemma is this, after a 3 week trip to Oaxaca last fall, I'd love to return. But it's a hard place to get to from my airport, Sacramento. Last time my 2 flights became 3, leaving during the night and arriving a zombie. Other options aren't much better. So I'm wondering if picking a location, such as Puerto Vallarta, easier to get to, will please me as much.

I liked the ambiance of Oaxaca, that it isn't largely a resort, but a Mexican community where one can go before the winter season kicks off and visit a beautiful colonial town not overrun with tourists in condos. In fact, I don't think there are any condos in Oaxaca. I also like that there's a resident English-speaking community and a library where I can volunteer my skills.

Having just begun considering PV, I know that it's hilly, too. It has an historic center and there's a library. But I wonder if it's more resort than Mexican town. The size of the population seems to be similar, not too big, not too small. I imagine there's a resident English-speaking community and wonder if they'll include short-term visitors in local activities. Traveling alone as I do, that can be a plus and while a have a smattering of Spanish, I don't delude myself that I'll sudden acquire proficiency.

I'd appreciate comments, especially from regular visitors and residents who may know what I'm asking. Will I find a welcoming place to which I'll want to return regularly? I felt relaxed in Oaxaca and confident I'd return, but the flight situation has gotten worse, rather than better, since last year. I'd love some advice, please.

PV's historic center isn't historic at all compared to Oaxaca's, where, for example, some churches (at least Santo Domingo) and the founding of the city date to the 1500's. But certainly more appealing architecturally than Cancun, for example. And arguably the most attractive large beach city in spite of the high rises. So, if colonial architecture is high on your list, then there's no comparison. Have you checked routes to Mexico City, American had a couple of good schedules. 1 option on that route would to take a bus directly from MEX to Puebla after arrival, then spend a day or 2 there resting up and seeing the city before taking the easy 4 hour bus ride to Oaxaca.
Another option would be to investigate Guanajuato and San Miguel, if being around English speakers is important. The routes to BJX seem more accessible, and you'd get your fix of colonial architecture that you can't get in a beach area. Except in Veracruz and Campeche, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
All that said, things in Oaxaca are volatile right now. Keep on top of how the protests are going. It may influence your decision.

Thanks for the heads up on the demonstrations. There were some while I was there, more disruptive before I was there. What I saw was just in the vicinity of the zocalo, so more widespread now?

American flies, I believe, to Puebla and yes, I could go on by bus from there. But that, and the other possibilities, are no less difficult than the Aeromexico flights. I'm getting too old for marathons and the point, after long difficult trips over several continents, is to find a place I can hop to easily.

I have also thought about Guanajuato. In fact had thought seriously about going there, then shifted to Oaxaca (mole!). I may have to give it a try.

Tell me what you like about Veracruz.

Thanks, baldone.

If you like colonial architecture and moles. Puebla is the place, along with Oaxaca. Puebla is wonderful, definitely worth a visit.

The demonstrations in Oaxaca are very bad right now. There are serious roadblocks going into and out of the city, people can't get around, in, out. Google and see.

Why don't you think about visiting a great colonial city aside from Oaxaca, and then a beach that is easy to get to. Merida would provide both-- fly into Cancun, stay in a smaller beach town on Caribbean like Puerto Morelos which is 20 min south of Cancun airport) which now has a real grocery store Chedraui, gasp, but otherwise is a very Mexican laid back no condos kind of place with great seafood and snorkeling, and then bus easily to Merida. Time to go home, fly from Merida or bus to Cancun and fly from there. Or just go to Merida, great colonial city with smaller town feel around the historic area.

Merida is oppressively hot in summer but by mid-Oct is gets nicer and Nov. is very nice.

American has a good network of flights from DFW to Mexico. You'd get non-stop flights from there to Guanajuato (easy land transport to San Miguel de Allende), Querétaro, and Puebla, and twice a week to Mérida. (I'm thinking of cities with a strong colonial heritage.) Some of the flights will be on smaller American Eagle planes, but the flights aren't long.

I love Mérida. It's become my favorite large-ish city in Mexico. I was just in San Cristóbal de las Casas in Chiapas state and fell in love with the place. But, yeah, talk about a long trip to get there. It meant connecting in Mexico City to Tuxtla Gutiérrez, the capital of Chiapas, and then an hour by land to San Cristóbal. It's a wonderful small colonial/indigenous city. It reminded me of a smaller version of Oaxaca. But almost no one speaks English. Very few Americans go there. The foreign community is mostly Western European.

Puebla may be bigger than I'd like. But Merida is another I seriously considered, but the problem is the city is flat, isn't it? It may sound a bit silly but for some reason hills are important to me, don't ask me why, but a flat place seems lacking and something I just realized recently while assessing choices. But I should take another look. Maybe ease of getting there would go a long way toward balancing the terrain thing. I think Merida may the first I investigated and I know it, too, has a library.

I'm sorry to hear about the renewed demonstrations. I was told by a resident there that the problem is that the government is trying to institute higher standards for teachers and it isn't going over well with the less educated ones. Less educated meaning teachers with junior high educations. Change is tough.

Jeff, I had a friend (American artist) who lived in San Cristobal for a time and loved it. But, yes indeed, getting there. Maybe I just have to get past my hills fetish and give Merida a try.

Mérida is flat as a pancake. You won't find any hills there. But the Mérida English Library has an active cultural program and makes extensive use of volunteers.

www.meridaenglishlibrary.com

San Cristóbal would provide you with hills. The drive from Tuxtla (quite warm) to San Cristóbal (quite chilly) takes you from 1,700 ft to 7,200 ft in under an hour.

Sounds not unlike the library in Oaxaca which is a great draw for me. A pancake, huh? Sigh. Maybe it'll be a good thing one of these days. Like a house without stairs, be prepared.

The Merida English Library is right around the corner from me. It's a very pretty and indoor and outdoor space with lots going on. I'm a member and volunteer who helps lead the house tours through Merida.
There's also all sorts of other places and things for gringos to do here if interest. let me know if you want more options.
We're flat as a pancake here, though.

I think I'm going to have to pay Merida a visit, hills or no hills. I may have to reconcile myself to less-than-ideal flight schedules to find a place that gives me most of what I want. One to stay a while and to return to regularly has different criteria than if I stay a week and move on. I want at least the possibility of conversation and focus and as a former cataloger, a library fulfills both requirements. I feel at home if I have books to shelve or records to update.

Thanks emd3, Jeff & cybor.

Well I can tell you more about Puerto Vallarta, but honestly I am not sure it's what you're looking for.

<I wonder if it's more resort than Mexican town.>

That completely depends what part of town you are in, where you go, what you do. It can be uber-touristy or you can be in normal working Mexican residential neighborhoods. PV has both.

<I imagine there's a resident English-speaking community and wonder if they'll include short-term visitors in local activities.>

Yes there is, and yes they will.

<Will I find a welcoming place to which I'll want to return regularly?>

Hard to say if Vallarta will speak to you, or not. I fell hard in love the very first trip in the early 90's when a friend took me. And have gone back 1-2x/year ever since (so about 27 trips to date I think it is).

PV is a bit honkey-tonk, lots hussle & bussle, noisy... it's a vibrant lively city. It's visited not only by the gringo and snowbird crowd from NOTB but it's also a vary popular destination for nationals who come to Vallarta for family beach vacations.

Please feel free to ask any specific questions. I'm happy to help if I can. Do you want me to post links to places I have stayed, so you can see what lodging is like?

siempre, suze

<may sound a bit silly but for some reason hills are important to me>

You'll think you died and went to heaven in Puerto Vallarta then (lol)! It helps to be a billy goat in that town!!

Suze, regarding hills, yes, I see them. And in every place that has interested me except Merida. To get an idea, I grew up in the SF Bay Area, in Paris was in Montmartre, lived 25 years in Bisbee AZ (in Tombstone Canyon) and now in the Sierra Foothills. All except my birthplace I chose and it was quite unconscious until I began this search.

Posada de Roger is already a saved site, probably from one of your posts. Generally I'd get an apartment for a longish stay but in Mexico eating out is not prohibitive so I think I'll consider hotels as well, all depending on a good monthly rate. Yes, I'd like to see where you've stayed.

I may have to do a "progress".

I rent apartments (condos) these days (for about the past 5 years or so). But I don't "cook" in them. I still eat out often!

Places I have stayed myself in Puerto Vallarta:

Hotel Posada de Roger
http://hotelposadaderoger.com/
PdR is my go-to budget hotel. Clean, safe, sunny, friendly, centrally located. I’ve stayed there at least a dozen times over the years. You can request a small frig &/or coffee maker for the room.

Emperador Hotel
http://hotelemperadorpv.com/ourhotel.html
It’s cheap and it’s beachfront that’s what it’s got going for it. No pool. Only stayed there one time.

El Escondido
http://www.vallarta-getaways.com/rent/
Vallarta Getaways is a fabulous local agency. I’ve been a guest at Escondido 3 times in units 1 or 4. Look under the Old Town Unique Rentals tab for other offerings.

Selva Romantica, Safari studio building
http://puerto-vallarta-rentals.com/selvaromanticaken/
I rented direct from an owner at a discounted price, but recently went thru 'PV Kid' for another rental successfully. Selva has an amazing infinity pool and spectacular common areas. Downside at the moment is current construction in the neighborhood nearby.

Vista del Sol
http://puerto-vallarta-rentals.com/vistadelsol715/
This is where I stayed last month, my sister was with me so we split the cost of the 2 bed/2 bath unit. There aren’t smaller units in this building or I’d be there more often.

Mission San Francisco Homes
http://tropicasa.com/condos/Mission-...sa-Grande/1278
Stayed here many years ago, but appears it’s up for sale not for rent now.

Places I have not stayed (yet) but have visited in person and would consider:

Hotel Rosita
http://hotelrosita.com/

Hotel Encino
http://www.hotelencino.com/

Hotel Porto Allegro
http://www.hotelportoallegro.com/s/home/ing

PlazaMar (condos)
http://puerto-vallarta-rentals.com/plazamar/

Posada Rio Cuale (condos)
http://www.vallarta-getaways.com/ren...-condominiums/

For a large English speaking lovely city check out San Miguel de Allende.
Clean, architectural pleasing & Peaceful unlike Oaxaca at the current time.
While Oaxaca has much to recommend it it has a real down side.
Constant demonstrations by both the unions & police is tiresome even without the current violence,
High prices, abject poverty (only city in Mexico I have seen people eating out of garbage cans) open prostitution both near the main Mercado & the Artisan Market is distressing.
It would be the last Mexican city I would return again.

San Miguel is not on my short list, though I realize many love it.

MmePerdu, your comment about Puebla being too big puzzles me. Oaxaca is a pretty large city. Maybe you stayed mostly in the historic district but it is bigger than just that area. Puebla has a compact historic district like Oaxaca. Yes, the city spreads out further but you likely would mostly be in the historic area...

Also, Taxco is VERY hilly...and easier to get to than San Cristobal. Just fyi.
.

Merida is also a large city, but historic area is also fairly compact...

According to my 2014 LP, the population of Oaxaca is 260,000 and Puebla 1.5 million. Merida 830,000 so just about in the middle.

I was mostly in Centro but did get out, a couple of day trips and to Abastos Market. I take your point about compact historic districts. Part of my concern about the size of a place is air quality, though I realize geography is a big factor. Also proximity to countryside, nearby in Oaxaca.

Rather than go in the fall I'm now thinking about March.

What happened to Puerto Vallarta? ;-)

Nothing's happened to Puerto Vallarta, no decision. Going SOMEWHERE in March, I hope.

You might enjoy the colonia 5th de diciembre
http://setfreeinmexico.com/colonia-5th-de-diciembre/

Do you know Bruce & Mary?

No. I just thought that neighborhood might be of interest to you, and knew about their blog and do think their photos give a good sense of that particular area.

Merida is now at 970,000 people, but when you're in the historic center, it doesn't seem anywhere near that big of a city.

D'uh! I didn't even think of Taxco. I was there a couple of months ago. You want hills? Taxco has them! I can't tell you anything about the expat community and those types of resources, though.

Bruce and Mary do get around. They used to live in Merida.

As for walking the historical center of Merida it's probably best to see one or two different neighborhoods on each excursion - there are 11 main ones and many smaller barrios. Wear good shoes and take taxis and buses when you can.
Here's a little info on the neighborhoods.
http://yucatan.travel/centrohistoric...-blanca-Merida

Each barrio has entertainment in their park on a rotating basis once a week.

Because we're the capital of the Yucatan, a main tourist destination for people around the world and have a huge uncounted population of students from the many universities, etc we have too many new food and rentals to count. There are new ones popping up everyday. Lots of new galleries making appearances, as well.
Things are still very affordable here but we'll see.

Anyhow, some people like Merida some don't. We recently had Canadian tenants who hated it. Thought it was too big, too hot and everything else.

That's interesting because I thought I'd really like Oaxaca but I didn't. I don't care if I ever go back. I didn't think it was that attractive, too much of a big city for me, and dirty and gritty. I didn't like Puebla that much, either.

Puerto Vallarta was okay for me, but a bit too much hustle for me and it doesn't have great beaches, either. If I go to a coast, I want good beaches, more like the Yucutan Peninsula. It wasn't a place I'd want to keep returning to and spend a lot of time in. Too many Americans, also.

One place I did really love and would like to go back was Guanajuato. It has hills. I have no idea if there is some big expat community there, I sort of liked it because it felt more authentic to me and I could speak Spanish. For example, when I was sitting in the main square (which is quite small, and it is really a jardin, not zocola like Puebla or Oaxaca), some guy was leading his donkeys home at night in a line down the street right in front of me. And this was one of the main streets in town. You would never see anything like that in the middle of Puerto Vallarta or Oaxaca. Even when I went on tours, such as a day bus tour, it was only in Spanish. But I know there are some English expats there as I met some when I was in the bus station going to Mexico City, and they said they came every summer for a few months or something like that.

Guanajuato is smaller than any of these places, though, so maybe you wouldn't like that. it isn't a village, but more like 175K for the city and its surroundings.

Guanajuato was actually the place in Mexico I'd planned to go, after enjoying spending a week in Alamos, Sonora. Friends said they wanted go, then backed out. So onto the back burner it went and other places, mostly in Asia that year, replaced it.

Maybe time to go back to the beginning and consider it again. It appears to have better flight options and also less expensive ones. I've pretty much ruled PV out now, I think too much of a resort for me. Beaches are incidental for my purposes. I actually do prefer smaller places although like having the libraries that come with the larger towns. But I suspect Guanajuato offers the ambiance I'd enjoy.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I Know the woman, Michelle, who has a good blog about living and traveling in Mexico. She used to post here on Fodors MX forum some, but not much anymore. You might be interested in her blog entries and photos about her 2014 trip to Guanajuato. Those posts are here:

http://www.buyplaya.com/blogs/rob_ki...e/2014/04.aspx

Really nice, emd3, thank you.

<I've pretty much ruled PV out now, I think too much of a resort for me.>


well that's unfortunate, because Vallarta is so much more than a "resort". Just ask the 250,000 people who live there ;-)

Suze, I realize it's more than a resort. I didn't feel I needed to enumerate all the reasons I think I'd like other places more. Maybe I can clarify for myself while I do it for you. The beach city aspect isn't for me. I confess, in all the photos I've seen, I preferred the look of other places. While I'd like some conversation, I think there may be too much of an expat presence. The whole condo thing puts me off. All the wonderful restaurants you list is, for someone like me, a red flag for an atmosphere that may appeal to me less, rather than more.

No choice will be perfect, but the purpose of my question was to solicit opinions from the Mexico-philes here, including you, and find a place with more of what I want. A comparison of our profile pictures may tell the tale, that we're very different sorts of people. You're social, I'm an introvert. Neither better nor worse, just different. So maybe not so unfortunate, for me.

Knowing more now, I would never recommend for you the specific neighborhood I stay in! It is more a Key West, Provincetown, Waikiki kinds of vibe in Zona Romantica. But that's one very small area of Puerto Vallarta.

btw~ I'm not a social person. I just happened upon a very handsome zumba instructor last trip. I'm very private. I travel solo most of the time and stick to myself. I never go to the beach. You're reading my personality incorrectly.

You could go to Vallarta, live in one of the colonias, volunteer at the library or school, speak only Spanish, not hang with expats. That's the beauty of the city, there is a place for everyone.

I think you should go to Guanajuato.

"You're reading my personality incorrectly."

Apologies.

Accepted, but not necessary. I was just surprised to read your 'observations' about my personality, because that's so not me.

Just when I think about commenting about Veracruz, I think you've decided, so I don't :)
Anyway, it's a lively city, often with Jarocho music in the plaza. It's a port city, so the water near the city is often polluted, but further away from the port, it's better. If that matters. Tons of history, with French influenced architecture. The San Juan De Ulua fort is interesting. Nice aquarium. Mexico's biggest coral reef is nearby. Mandinga lagoon is popular for seafood and fun: http://www.johntoddjr.com/103%20Mandinga/mandinga.htm
The ruins of Zempoala are nearby: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cempoala
El Tajin is worthwhile, but a long day trip.
I really enjoyed the classic Veracruz Cafe Del Portal.
Couple of big markets near the malecon.
Xalapa is 2 hours away. Nice anthropology museum. Hilly with the Perote volcano in view. Nearby is Coatepec and Xico. Coffee and waterfalls. In Coatepec you can smell coffee roasting throughout the town.
There are few English speakers in Veracruz. You'll probably find more in Xalapa as it's a university town.
I doubt you'd find an easy flight, however. But, since you asked. Best bet would be fly to MEX then bus to Xalapa and base there for some time, and then on to Veracruz.