Argentina First Time; Help, Please
 

(I've re posted this to try and see if a new title will show in an Argentina search)

hola/hello

A friend has just invited me to visit at an apartment he has rented in Buenos Aires. I will go the end of December '07 or the beginning of Jan'08 and can stay in Argentina for 3 weeks.

I'm thinking 7-10 in BA probably divided in 2 to save the friendship and the remainder seeing some more of the country.

After reading previous posts, the NW, the falls and the glacier area near El Calafate sound interesting areas for outside BA travel. I don't know if that is too much to try and see or if folks have other suggestions.

My friend says domestic airfare is expensive; i am not sure of what other transport options/ distances are to other parts of the country.

I am an active (running, hiking, kayaking) architect who enjoys all kinds of looking at buildings/ and both city and countryside, the great outdoors and I speak passable spanish and italian ( I understand many italians settled in BA)

any suggestions both in and outside of BA would be appreciated as well as a weather guesstimate for that time of year.

I have travelled in Colombia, Ecuador and Peru but this will be my first side on the east coast of the continent.

thanks for any help

cheers
AndrewDavid (Victoria, BC)

If you're not on a tight budget and can afford to fly then yes you can see the falls and glaciers.

You can take an overnight bus to the falls from Buenos Aires and take a return flight to El Calafate which will run about $300 or so depending on when you go.

Personally, I didn't care for Buenos Aires. In fact it's one of the worst cities I've visited and I know I'm totally in the minority...most people love it. So I think 7-10 is too much...I would say 5. I would make your schedule flexible enough so you can add or take away days from Buenos Aires.

You will need 2-3 days for the falls and depending on what you want to do in El Calafate area, a minimum of 3 days.

oceania
Just curious about why you did not care for Buenos Aires.
Mary

I found many (not all) of the people to be very rude and racist (also in Mendoza) ...to me it was just another big city but it lacked character and originality (among other things). However, that was just my personal experience, most people love the city so take this with a grain of salt.

People please do not get defensive and flame me for my OPINION.

oceania, thanks for your information. why do you recommend the bus to the falls is it a scenic route, rather than flying

cheers
AndrewDavid

I'm not recommending either way, it's just a cheaper (but longer) option - plus you get a free night's accommodations and meal...I'm a budget traveller as you can tell ;-)

oceania, well everyone is a budget traveller just on different budgets eh. me half we between what i might spend if i won lotto super 7 and when i did 11 months in europe and nort africa for $3000! lol
thanks for your comment though; it's usually nice to do as many forms of transport and possible to get a feel for how things work in a country

i'm sorry I'm not getting more info from folks here tho
maybe everyone is out enjoying Argentina

cheers
Andrew

At the risk of sounding defensive or rude, I would be very interested in why you felt Buenos Aires was racist?

Not to be argumentative but I have to think that oceania had an unusual time in BsAs...or there is just more to the story.
I am Caucasian and have not noticed any racism in BaAs, although that does not mean there is none.
But I do know that in the 4 months we have lived here, I have not had one experience with rudeness , in fact, I and most people that I speak with regarding this subject, are charmed by the open friendliness of the people here and the warmth with which they recieve zillions of visitors ... I lived in NYC among other places and I love NY but I see a much warmer friendlier atmosphere here for visitors..even those who are clueless and don't speak Spanish are treated well.
So there is no doubt in my mind that there is more to this story and that oceania's visit/story is not typical of what people experience here.

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=35046378

Andrew/David, I am including the other thread you posted earlier, to keep your questions and answers together here on this thread...it might be helpful to you : )

About 7-10 days, our first visit here was for 2 weeks and we left not having left the city limits, never got to Colonia or the Falls or an estancia..there was so much to see and do here in the city.
We found that all of our plans and mapped out itineraries went out the window once we got here and started walking around and finding more things of interest than we expected.
It is easy to while away a lot of your day at cafes lol..just people watching and getting involved in conversations with Locals.
From dinner one night in a restaurant, we met a couple who were avid Tango dancers, from that we were invited to a Milonga... you never know how your day or evening will progress and on vacation- it is great to have that option to change your plans.
Give yourself plenty of time to let this happen.
You arrive early in the am but there is not a terrible time difference, we arrived from the West Coast of the US..we slept on the plane, arrived feeling pretty good. You will notice right away that people stay up very late yet get up early and put in a day at work ... we don't work and still have trouble keeping up!
There are many Americans and Europeans living here who love getting together with visitors and newbies living here, there is always something to do, so expect at least a week here to be crammed full of things to do.

Here are a couple of sites to get more ideas/answers from:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowForum..._District.html

www.casasaltshaker.net

I will be glad to answer any questions that I can but keep reading guide books and forums, there are many helpful people out there :)
ciao!

People like to assume however, I'm not white.

As I have already stated, this was my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE...I'm not saying that's how it will be for everyone.

Anyways, this thread is about Andrew's itinerary.

I don't assume anything, nor am I getting defensive, or flaming you for your OPINION, but I would also like to know more about why you found "many (not all) of the people to be very rude and racist" in Buenos Aires and Mendoza.

And yes, I know this thread is about AndrewDavid's itinerary.

Since posting about "rude and racist people and I didn't care for Buenos Aires. In fact it's one of the worst cities I've visited " was not part of Andrews itinerary either, it might have been better left out altogether, but since you brought it up, don't expect people (especially those of us who live here) to accept it without remarking on it.

Avrooster, my previous reply was not directed at you...not sure why you would think it was - but the defensiveness and assumptions can certainly be seen in Scarlett's post. Not sure why since I explained it was my personal experience and to take my message with a grain of salt...exactly the reason why I don't want to get into details.

But anyways...Avrooster to answer your question, my most memorable experience was being punched in the face and called some racist names when a guy tried to steal a taxi I had secured...the taxi driver was very apologetic and nice however. There are other stories but I think that sums it up but that's not the reason why I didn't like BsAs, as I said I found city characterless and ordinary. Mendoza is nice though.

Just as a reminder, I was asked why I didn't like BsAs when I gave my opinion not to spend 10 days there...this place is for opinions, help, suggestions after all Scarlett.

Oceania, I knew exactly to whom your reply was directed, but I wanted you to know for sure that yours truly wasn't acting in any of the ways I mentioned.

About the taxi incident, after quite a bit of research I am now sure you are a female and that makes the incident much worse. I apologize for my countrymen and hope you will give us another chance.

Andrew the bus from BsAs to the falls is a L-O-N-G ride, something like 16 hours. If you don't mind that, it is cheaper than flying.
In terms of time in BsAs, your architectural interest will be piqued, as there is a lot to see from historic through modern. I spent nine days and did not get to do everything I would have liked. BsAs is definitely urbane but the vibe is not frazzled. I did see some people running, and there are lots of gyms. BsAs is also a great place to walk.
Your Spanish and Italian will help - the version of Spanish spoken in BsAs is actually influenced by Italian. Many of the slang words derive from Italian, and the rhythm of the speech is more like Italian than typical Spanish. There are some pronunciation differences (most notably pronouncing double "L" as something like "sh."
I, too, had a negative experience one time during my visit (petty theft partly due to my own carelessness) but decided to not let it ruin the trip. Virtually all the people I met or interacted with were warm and pleasant.

I am sorry, I was not going to respond to this again, but I guess my will power is weak.
oceania, whether you are a man or a woman, it was a terrible thing to be punched or treated badly by anyone when you were in BsAs...it is a terrible thing if it had happened in your own home town.
While I take offense at the idea that "the people" of BsAs are all rude and racist because of that incident, I do feel terrible for you that it happened and that your memories of your trip are so unpleasant.

avrooster...I really do not think that you need to apologise for your "countrymen" who are on the most part kind and helpful people who would never think to behave in such a terrible manner. Your "countrymen" did nothing wrong..this was one person, we do not know where he even came from so I would not cast that slur on the people of BsAs..just on one disgusting jerk that unfortunately can be found in any city in the world without even having to look hard.

I wish oceania many happy trips to beautiful countries that will make her/him feel welcome...

Avrooster thank you for your post and for understanding, instead of pretending that this is an isolated incident and making excuses.

I had a great time in Iguassu and El Calafate and would like to visit other parts of the country but I don't think I would go back to BsAs...at least not anytime soon.

The taxi thing wasn't the only incident - I felt extremely unwelcommed, got bad service, dirty looks, etc. and similar experience in Mendoza. The other darker skinned people I met, also face similar treatment. But usually when they heard me speak and knew I was from either Canada/US, then they were nicer to me.

It's nothing to take personal or get defensive about...not everyone is going to like the same things and have the same experiences...this is part of travelling.

When I returned home, I actually met a guy from visiting from BsAs and I told him my story and he told me they probably thought I was indigenous (I was in Brazil before and got really tanned) and that there is racism towards them.

Andrew, so sorry to derail your thread. I hope you have a wonderful time in Argentina and like I said, most of the people I met love Argentina, I highly doubt you'll encounter any of this.

et al

hijacking of posts on Fodors comes w/ the territory so I don't mind being hijacked from time to time as the discussions are always insightful and generally everyone ends up kissing and making up. But yes back to my trip queries

for example oceania tell me about your experience in el Calafate as I want to head down there , local trips hotels etc as well as at Iguazu where I will also go details for 5 days =/- in the NW would also be appreciated

while I have the offer of a bed in BA now another friend has decided to join us so i've tentatively booked an apt at terassas papalermo www.terassaspalermo.co.ar as anyone heard anything about it

feel free to hijack as necessary

cheers

AndrewDavid

sorry that's terrazaspalermo.co.ar

A/D

now you can all make fun of my transcription skills!!!!

www.terrazaspalermo.com.ar

3rd time the charm eh

AndrewDavid

I like the neighborhood very much and I have been in several of the older homes in the area that have been remodeled...they retain character with modern ammenities. Good choice based on location, although I cannot say anything about the terrazas because I have not visited this specific house....

Andrew, I flew to El Calafate from BsAs on LAN - I booked online, I think it was $240 USD and roughly a 3 hour flight. There's no public transportation - it's either hotel pickup, taxi (42 pesos) and there are shuttle buses but they're pricey (50 pesos I think). Better to find some people to share the costs with.

It's about 20 mins into town. I stayed at America del Sur hostel (you can google them), very nice and welcomming place. As a FYI, everything is more expensive in El Calafate food, accommodations, other items...but you can find chocolatiers there that make fresh chocolate which you can smell walking around the tiny town.

The hostel booked 3 day trips for me (you can also go to a travel agency I suppose). If you plan on doing camping/trekking and don't want to lug your gear around, you can rent the gear.

My first trip was to Todo Glaciers (Upsala, etc) on the catamaran - to be honest, I didn't find it that enjoyable because of all the people on the ferry. It's a packed so make sure to book in advance and it's an absolute zoo going on deck - every time we came to a glacier or something interesting, everyone flocked to the side and didn't move. There's a line of people wanting to get their pictures taken and of course no one else can be in the picture so they wait until they can get a clear shot, limiting the number of people who actually just want to look at it. I'm not really sure if there's another option to see the glaciers...at least with less people but it was still nice, but not as good as Perito Moreno.

Second day trip was to Perito Moreno which wonderful...it's the reason why most people come to Calafate.

Third day trip was Torres del Paine, Chile which was also great - left 6am returned at 10pm - it's a 3 hour drive each way and you have to go through immigration at the border so be sure to have your passport. You also have the opportunity to change some money to the local currency.

I went in December, and it was quite cool and windy so be sure to bring a wind and rain proof jacket and fleece/sweater. I would also bring a packed lunch (there's a supermarket in town) as food is limited and expensive.

You need 3-4 days as a bare minimum.

As for Iguazu, you definitely don't need 5 days. You need one full day to see the falls and if you want to go to the Brazilian side (you need a visa which is $72 CAD) that just requires another day.

In Puerto Iguazu, I stayed at Lola's guesthouse (just turn left from the bus station, she's on the left hand side) - grandmother of 2 who speaks no English but if you want to practice your Spanish it's a good place to go. It's bare minimum (no free breakfast) but there's a kitchen, you get your own washroom...it's in a residential area (but a 2 minute walk from the bus station) ...it's more like staying in someone's house (she lives there too)...very nice lady though.

Just to warn you, it's EXTREMELY and I mean EXTREMELY hot there in December. The temperature was 47 degrees celsius...your constantly dripping sweat - the falls takes a good 5-7 hours to see so make sure you keep hydrated and lots of sunscreen.

Hope that helps.

thanks for replies everyone keep them coming

AndrewDavid

ttt

please help, thanks

A/D

Andrew, I would suggest for you to get a guidebook and also do some research by googling the info you're looking for...you're lucky to get this many responses, often many posts go unanswered or very little help is provided.

Great advice from Oceania!

oceania, your last response is interesting my previous experience was on Australia part of site and responses kept coming. i have some guidebooks and more from he library, but info is generally 2 years old at publication and besides there is nothing like the first hand experience chatrooms like this can offer

thanks
AndrewDavid

hello, Is it possible in order to save back tracking to fly from BA to Iguazu and then onto say Montevideo? What is the airport for the falls?

zThanks
AndrewDavid

Andrew, I live in NYC and my husband is from Argentina. I have been there several times.

Can you imagine going to the town of Niagara Falls and not seeing the falls? It is the same as going to Argentina and not seeing the glaciars. It is far, it is expensive, but just go. Google a picture of Perito Moreno Glaciar and you will see what I mean. When you are in Calafate, a boat tour of Lago Frias is a must.

As to Buenos Aires. It is a very nice city but 3 weeks is too long for a visit. We always stay at the Sofitel Puerto Madero. Go to Cabana de las Lilas for steak and to Parolaccia for great food in Puerto Madero, and night life. Walk from there to the area around Casa Rosada. Walk to Galerias Pacifico, walk all the way avenida Florida. You can manage without a car.

Be carefull not to wear expensive looking things and have a nice trip.

Also, rethink your options. There is nothing to see in Montevideo. Iguazu is beautifull but Niagara Falls are better. I would say, don't sacrifice Calafate for Iguazu.

Ana Laura
Thanks for your response. I have 19 full days on the ground to spend on my first trip to Argentina. Areas I would like to visit are Buenos Aires, Salta, Iguazu Falls, el Calafate and if possible a day or 2 in Uruguay. Is this too much? I assume all internal connections will be by plane. We arrive Dec 30

thanks
AndrewDavid

I live about 1.5 hours from Niagara and have gone there at least 30 times or so...I would definitely say that Iguasu are far superior...but that's a personal preference.

If you have the money to spend then yes you can do all that in 19 days. I haven't been to Salta so I can't speak to that.

It wouldn't make sense to fly to Montevideo from Iguassu since it's only 1 hour ferry ride from BsAs. I agree that there's nothing much to see in Montevideo, I would recommend that you go to Colonia instead if you want to visit Uruguay - it's sooooooo much better. You can even do it as a day trip.

And you will have to do some backtracking by going back to BsAs.

Iguasu - 2 days
El Calafate - 4 days (minimum)
Buenos Aires - 5 days
Uruguay - 1 or 2 days

I agree with oceania.
Iguazu Falls are amazing and the 2 days sounds perfect. I would definitely take a day trip over to Colonia and enjoy that day but still be back in BA for dinner..
Your trip is going to be amazing, I like the research you are doing now..any ideas on where you will be staying now?

Iguazu Falls...seven times the volume of water of Niagra. Not to take anything away from Niagra,but Iguazu is far superior in my opinion.

sorry oceania
i went back and found your comments about el Calafate duh good suiggestions. I spent part of this afternoon in the bookstore w/ a pile of guidebooks, always one of my favourite pastimes

cheers A/D

thanks everyone for your responses

I'm embarassed to say I will apparently see Iguazu before I see Niagra!

It appears the prospecting posting of someone "antartica " something and warnings about it have been removed by the greater force

I am still checking on BA apartments. I'm thinking a/c and a pool given what temps will be. Are there good public pools indoors or out in BA?

Starting w/ a weeek in BA Dec30
( including an excursion to Uruguay)

4 Days Salta and environs

4 days el Calafate/ Glacier NP

2 days Iguazu

2 unscheduled so far

not sure of order yet I guess it depends on internal flights

How about suggestions for a local travel agent to help w/ in country travels

thanks everyone

cheers
AndrewDavid

As far as a local travel agent is concerned, I suggest you try Isabel, who has always been very helpful in this forum.
http://www.buenosaires-tours.com.ar/
[email protected]

avrooster,

thanks for the referral. I will contact Isabel when I get back to Victoria next week (I am currently in Santa Fe, New Mexico)

cheers

AndrewDavid

You might look up Cintia Stella at WOW! Argentina also.
A friend of mine used her last fall for her trip here and everything was perfect.
I have heard a lot of good things about Cintia.