Yes, it's another France itinerary question, with kids...
 

Hello lovely people!

I am well into planning a 2-week itinerary for early/mid June in France, mostly, and I am seeking a reality check on the complexity of our itinerary plus activity suggestions. My husband and I are traveling with our two children aged 9 (boy) and 12 (girl). My children have never been to Europe but they are good, seasoned, travelers in the U.S. We live near San Francisco and travel 4 times a year to various locations on the East Coast and Midwest visiting family and friends. We always manage to throw in some sightseeing and they do pretty well with it. We also regularly road trip and camp in California including the weekend 4+ hour trek to Lake Tahoe during ski season. My husband and I both speak enough French to communicate and meet people, and I have driven in Europe (Germany, Spain, Greece). My husband and I have been to France, and so we would like to see some new places while introducing the kids to some fun and and important highlights. Here is what I have so far, and the only non-refundable reservations are Paris and Chartres.

Day 1-4 PARIS (June 8-11): Fly into Paris on a Saturday and spend 4 days, 4 nights in Paris at a 3-star Hotel du Palais Bourbon in the 7th arrondissement. Plan to see important and kid friendly points in Paris: Tour Eiffel, Louvre, neighborhoods, etc., have dinner with some old family friends, plus a possible trip to Versailles. Any unique suggestions? The first day (a Saturday) we know we'll be jet lagged and we might take an afternoon Air BNB walking tour of the Marais, and markets, just to stay awake and take in some of the ambience. We will take the "family tour" of the Louvre at some point. I've heard it's good to buy some cheap scooters for the kids upon arrival at a store called Decathelon so they can use them around and in the parks during the trip.

Day 5-6 LONDON (June 12-13)

Day 5: Take the Eurostar early to LONDON. Hope to store luggage at Gare du Nord, and just use a couple backpacks for overnight (possible?). Tour important sites like Tower of London, Westminster, etc. Stay in Kensington/Hyde Park, possibly see an evening play. Stay in 3-star Eagle Hotel. We know we'll return to the UK some day for more of a deep dive, so this is just to have a quick, fun, experience with the kids.

Day 6: More activities in London. Late afternoon, return to Paris on Eurostar. Pick up a rental car at station and drive to CHARTRES where we'll stay in a good 4-star Best Western on June 13, right near the Cathedral.

Day 7-8 LOIRE VALLEY

Day 7 (June 14): Morning, look around CHARTRES and the Cathedral and begin the Loire Valley portion of the trip. This is flexible, but we plan to possibly drive down to Orleans and see/tour Chambourd castle. My son knows about Joan of Arc and thinks she's really interesting (if you have kids, tell them to watch the Joan of Arc episode of the "Who Was Show", very funny). Currently we are booked to stay that night near AMBOISE in a beautiful chateau that has a pool and grounds, and is built into a cliff with a troglodyte parking garage (? LOL). Might have dinner in Amboise and look around the town if there's time that evening, might do that the following day.

Day 8 (June15): Morning, nice breakfast and possibly relax a little, let the kids swim before checking out, then spend time near Amboise and Tours. We have nothing specific planned but it looks like there is a lot to see and do in that area. Mid-afternoon/evening, take a long drive down to Dordogne where we will stay in a very interesting guest house near THERAC. It's in a vineyard with its own little medieval chateau and pool on the grounds.

Day 9-10, and ?11 DORDOGNE REGION (June 16-17, ?18)

Day 9 (June 16): Visit the caves at Lascaux museum, learn about cave people, and add other activities that make sense. It's a Sunday, will the museum be open? Stay in Therac guest house, and explore the grounds there as well as the vineyard, do a tasting, relax a bit.

Day 10:

• Option 1: Activities in Dordogne region until mid-day, then drive to Narbonne or medieval village of Poet Laval to spend night of the 17th

or

• Option 2: Activities in Dordogne all day, stay in Therac guest house a 3rd night on the 17th (possibly the preferred option - a 3-night stay)

Day 11-13 (June 18-20): ARLES/PROVENCE REGION

Day 11: June 18, drive to Arles in the morning from wherever we spend the night, with possible interesting stops and/or beach break, on the way. Stay at a charming B&B at edge of Arles that has a pool and nice, large grounds with animals.
Day 12: June 19, Stay in Arles, activities in Provence region
Day 13: June 20 stay in Arles, activities in Provence region

Day 14-15: RIVIERA (June 21 and 22)

Day 14 (June 21): Please note: we are not interested in the Nice, Cannes, Monaco (other than dropping our rental car in Nice and taking the train out). Have done it, don't need to repeat.

• Option 1: Drive directly to ANTIBES from Arles, have fun doing boating or nature activities and looking around in Antibes. Stay in central Antibes at Le Place hotel, experience Festival de la Musique in evening (summer solstice).

OR

• Option 2: Drive to Nice, drop off rental car and take train to GENOA

Day 15: Depending on options for Day 14, either wake up and start the day in GENOA, or get there by train as early as possible (it's about 3-4 hours from Nice with a possible train change right over the border). Take a tour of historic old town, sample foods, experience a day of Italy (wish we could make it to Portofino or a pretty fishing village but it sounds a bit ambitious for one day). Perhaps a Segway tour would be fun. Stay in Palazzo Grillo Hotel or an airport hotel. Note: we plan to go back to Italy for a more extensive trip some day but we probably won't see Genoa then. We just want to give our kids a little taste of Italy, and historically Genoa is an important town: birthplace of Christopher Columbus, etc.



Day 16: Fly Genoa-Paris-San Francisco.

I know this is long, but I appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Thank you!

No need to go to Orleanas for Chambord Castle, the biggest in the Loire Valley, - kids may be interested in the soupe de chiens or daily feeding of the hounds at nearby at Cheverny Chateau:
can easily hit both in one day as they are near each other - but times of dogs' feeding may be out of sinc with you -Cheverny castle itself is a minor chateau.

If kid loves Leonardo be sure to stop by his mini-villa, the Clos Luce, in Amboise not far from the chateau, which is definitely worth touring IMO:

https://www.google.com/search?q=clos...w=1280&bih=625

Just outside Amboise is the unique Pagode de Chanteloup, which is free I believe - the only remnant of lavish chateau that was pulled down and sold off in pieces to settle some back taxes some king probably imposed - all that was left was the Pagoda - reflecting an infatuation with all things Chinese around in the 18th century - you can climb up the pagoda last I knew:

https://www.pagode-chanteloup.com/?lang=en

On way out of Amboise towards the south it is easy to stop by Chenonceau - the most popular and considered by many to be the most beautiful. Azay-le-Rideau would be easy to hit by taking local highways between the two - to me Azay is my favorite castle - looks nicer on outside than inside most will say - but definitely worth a stop.

And finally the Amboise Chateau in summer has a Son-et-Lumiere - Sound-and-Light Show with headphones translating into English and there may be some English seances - hundreds of locals dress up in old-time garb and perform some kind of spectacle:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ambo...w=1280&bih=625

And do buy the International Driving Permit - sold at AAA for about $20 (It'a an official translation of your driving license's words into several languages - required by law in both France and Italy. And respect the speed limits in France, which have just been lowered as speed cameras are everywhere and speed limits are strictly enforced.

And book the Eurostar train to Paris and back ASAP - often months possible in advance to score deep discounted tickets over full fare - book your own at www.eurostar.com - www.seat61.com has great tips on doing that yourself online - general train info also www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

I count 7 lodging stays in 15 nights. That would be too many for me, but since you've already booked everything this is probably not the response you were looking for. I'd skip Genoa for sure, but I admit Genoa isn't high on my list of big Italian cities. It just wouldn't be worth it to me to make any special effort to get there. I suppose an afternoon and evening are OK, but I'd rather have another full day in/near Antibes and just chill on the last day. I would probably also leave London for another trip. I'm allergic to one-night stays, although others seem to find these flash visits enjoyable.

Others may know where it is, but I am having difficulty finding Therac on a map. I have found a Thenac in the Dordogne, and we stayed about 12 kms away in 2016. If that is the place, it is not ideally situated to visit the caves which are 100+ kms away. So where is it ?
There is a big difference between travelling from there to Narbonne ( 350 kms ) and Le Poet Laval which is nowhere near the Dordogne and is 600+ kms away in the Drome. I presume this is an error and you mean some where else.
I agree with Jean that you are trying to do too much in the time you have. I will be honest and say it is not a trip we would do on our own, let alone with children. I know the days will be getting longer, but I like to be at my base at a reasonable hour to get settled. You need to take into account jet lag and also the time it takes to travel between these places, and that to get one full day in a place, you need two nights. One full day is not a lot to devote to these places. You want this trip to be enjoyable and memorable for the right reasons. Dashing about all over the place to try and cram as much into the time you have does not do it for me.

I think the whole thing is crazy, but where the heck is Therac? It's not anywhere in or near the Dordogne that I know of.

I'm glad you'll be visiting Lascaux, where the first thing they will teach you is never to talk about "cave people."

OK -- Coming from someone who truly loves London (more than Paris even) and visits at least twice a year . . . If you are keeping the rest of your whirlwind plans -- I would not squeeze in a trip to London. Unfortunately you say Chartres is the only non-refundable bit. Sure London is wonderful - and you say this is only a quick look-see - but you won't even get a taste of London in 1.5 days. You mention the 'Eagle Hotel' - I'm not familiar with that -- could by any chance mean the Royal Eagle? If so - no I would not stay there. It is in Paddington and not near anything but Hyde Park. But in any case - I'd re-think the whole idea. The rest of your plan is hectic enough - I'd just stay in Paris and save London for another time.

People often say this trip is just a quick look at somewhere and they will come back again in the future. I often wonder how many actually do. Why not reduce the number of stops, spend a bit longer in the ones you choose, and actually have time to be able to enjoy them. You will be less stressed about trying to keep to an exhausting schedule and still keep the younger members of the family happy. I would say no more than four stops in two weeks. That is still more than I would like, but better than what you are suggesting at the moment.

You know your family best and what pace might work for you. For us, that pace would be too much. We just got back from 12 nights in Paris with our kids. They are 7 & 4, so younger than yours, but we were glad to take it slow so as to reduce stresses and have plenty of pigeon-chasing, playground jaunts, and ice cream breaks.

Some highlights for our kids:
-Our day at Versailles was unexpectedly amazing, as we focused almost entirely on the gardens and park. We took the train out, arriving at lunchtime, walking around the palace straight to the grounds, where we ate at a stand in the garden. From there, we wandered the garden, rented a rowboat, rented bikes and spent a ton of time exploring the deserted lanes very far from anything, took a peek at the Hamlet area, and then walked right into the palace about 45 minutes before closing, when there was no line at all and hardly anyone left inside. It was a phenomenal day and my kids so enjoyed being able to run around free of any agenda for most of the afternoon.
-Ateliers des Lumieres (the new-ish digital art museum that currently has a Van Gogh exhibit) was arguably the biggest hit of the week. I'd consider bagging the Louvre and seeing this. That's what we did! I figure my kids can see the Louvre when they are older. We did go to the Orsay where I had made them a scavenger hunt of sorts and my 7-year-old in particular enjoyed it, though we kept our visit to an hour.
-We loved the playground at the Tuileries Garden (the one in the Luxembourg Gardens was closed for renovations during our trip, and may still be for yours), and we ate lunch at the cafe in the park (food was nothing to write home about, but was great to enjoy wine while our kids played) and my husband and I also took turns visiting Musee de L'orangerie while the kids played some more.
-The kids thought St Chapelle was gorgeous, though we only stayed about 10-15 minutes.
-As expected, Eiffel Tower was very fun for them. Later in the trip, my daughter bought an art set and sketched the tower on a bench in Champ de Mars while my son played on the playground and we all ate crepes. That memory is definitely a highlight and it's hard to find those moments if your sightseeing itinerary is too packed.
-But still, I think pigeon-chasing was their favorite, and it was nice to have an itinerary that allowed for them to spend time doing that whenever they wanted (e.g. over an hour in front of Notre Dame, which now seems particularly special) instead of hurrying them along to the next thing on our itinerary.

We avoided doing too many sit-down restaurants and got a lot of sandwiches and quiches to go, and ate them in parks and playgrounds. Worked for us.

Enjoy your trip...I'm sure it will be wonderful no matter what you decide!

Well it is rushed and not what I would do,but hey. I might drop into Nimes or Avignon around Arles.

Genoa/Genova the old town is fascinating and I have no idea what an official tour of the place would be like. Much of it is very souk like but with tourist tat thrown in. If you hunt high and low you will find all the foods of Africa in an alley somewhere.

Too many details. Too many places but if you are in Chartres don't miss the Maison Picassiette. Miraculous is an understatment! https://www.chartres.fr/sortir-a-cha...n-picassiette/

I know these are not on your list and are a way from your planned route, but if your son is interested in the life Jean of Arc then her birthplace in Domremy in the Vosges is imho far more interesting than Orleans with regard to her life. Nearby is also a wonderful Roman Amphitheatre at Grand.

But I also agree with others than you are trying to do too much in your time in France. Drop London if you can, and slow down a bit. You will all enjoy it far more that way.

My kids were obviously the exact opposite of yours as they would absolutely have hated this sort of trip; they liked to stay put in once place for a nice long time - at least 4-5 nights. They still do [and they are 31 and 28]. So it won't surprise you when I say that I agree that this is much too full for me. I too would drop London, and stick to Paris, the Loire, Dordogne/Provence or the Riviera then back to Paris. If you drop Genoa, you might manage 2 out of those three but honestly there is so much to do in each of them that there is really no need to do so.

I second this. We just came back from London and Paris with our 7, 5, and 1 year old, and Versailles was one of our favorite parts of the entire trip.

I agree with Bilbo that Genoa has some fine offerings in the back streets. But to pinpoint it as an historical setting for tweens seems misguided, especially given the current story line that it wasn't Christopher Columbus who discovered America, anyway. I can't picture my kids at 9 and 11 giving a hoot about being taken to where he was born (and they were history buffs); nor can imagine them wanting to have wandered down a souk-like alley. They would have been saying "where's the gelato?"

And to echo Ann,my kids (on countless trips to Europe) absolutely hated the uproot-and-move routine and were monsters in the car when we did that too often.They preferred to feel settled for a few days.

Yeah it's rushed but if you know your family and they are ok with that type of trip I don't think it's crazy. Some people, especially kids that age get bored quick and like to keep moving. I even think the London side trip is OK. No of course you won't get to see much but maybe the kids will enjoy the train and when they get home get to tell their friends they went to London. But I probably would drop Genoa. I personally love Genoa but wouldn't go there for one night, and I don't think it would be a highlight for kids that age. If the goal is for them to get to say they went to Italy how about keeping the car and driving over the boarder and visit a couple of towns just past Nice (then drive back to Nice to return the car and fly out of there). On the other hand if your return flights are already booked out of Genoa, then I'd drop one of the other stays in France and add two or three nights to Italy and stay in Camogli or Rapallo or somewhere for 3 days - better than staying in Genoa and still close enough to get there for a flight.

<<ow about keeping the car and driving over the boarder...>>

Well, that would certainly be something for the kids to remember!:)

Wow!!! Crazy itinerary. It is similar our first trip to Europe in 1977 before I became a "smart traveler". Too many 1 & 2 night stays and too much driving. On our trip, my mother & sister "bailed out" half way through the trip - they couldn't take it any more. Not much to see out of the back seat of a car. We arrived in Lucerne mid afternoon on a Saturday, just as all the shops & cafes were closing - until Monday. We spent the remainder of Saturday & all day Sunday don't nothing (mom & sis departed on Sunday). When we returned home, my wife said she would never go on a trip like that again with me. Two years later, we returned to Europe and visited the same places (Amsterdam, Cologne, Rhine/Mosel) - but this time we stayed for 2-4 nights to visit the places we missed on our first trip - which was almost everything.

I also live near San Francisco. We visit Europe (mainly France) twice a year for 1 month each trip. Consider:
- Last year our November flight from SFO departed 2 1/2 hrs late because of non-weather problems. Those travelers with connections probably missed them
- last year, our return flight from CDG in Sept was cancelled because of mechanical problems,. We returned home 1 day late
- in 2017, our flight to Italy was 6 hours late and we needed to be re-routed through 3 different/new places. We arrived at our destination at 10PM
- in 2015 our flight from SFO was cancelled because of mechanical problems, and then the flight crew & pilots "time out". We arrived 1 day late

How will any of these problems impact your plans?

Stu Dudley

And Stu didn't even have kids to contend with!

Yes! I am planning my trip to France now, and have added this too. Looks super interesting

Jean d'arc slept everywhere for goodness sake. Why not study the path of the Black Prince for example?

Sure hope the OP finds her way back here . . .

Why???? She didn't hear what she wanted to hear.

Stu Dudley

Could be, but I wouldn't just assume that is the case. She is brand new and may not know there are so many responses.

Drop London and Genoa

If you do buy/rent scooters in Paris, Le Parc Butte Chaumont is a short metro ride from central Paris. It offers lots of hills that would be fun to scoot on, and is an extremely pleasant central city park enjoyed by locals.

Again - Melissa didn't hear what she wanted to hear. Don't waste your time providing recommendations.

Stu Dudley

Thank you for all of the kind responses!
 

I very much appreciate all of the responses offering me advice! I'm touched that people would spend the time. Thank you!

I apologize for checking out for a week. I'm a busy mom with 2 young kids and lots going on. I try to do the planning on the weekend when I have blocks of time to focus.

I've been to Europe many times for both business and pleasure, and to at least half of these places on my own. Our goal is to do 1-2 things a day. But, it's been years and I've never attempted this type of travel with kids aged 12 and 9. I'm going to take some time to sift through all the responses I will get back (hopefully individually) with follow up questions.

At this very moment my son has 2 friends over and they are all begging for pizza! C'est la vie!

Merci beaucoup!

Thank you! This is wonderful advice. I will look up the feeding of the dogs and more. I really, really appreciate your response and that you took time to go into detail. It's extremely helpful.

melissa - We have taken 3 trips with kids and/or grandkids to France and I really believe it is important to travel with your family whenever you can. It's great that you are planning this trip. It appears you have done quite a bit of research and have come up with a lot of fun things to do. I have done some pretty crazy trips myself but I do agree with others that this is very ambitious.

I know you've been to Europe before and your goal is to only do 1 or 2 things a day but when I plug your destinations in to google maps (Paris, London, back to Paris, Chartres, Amboise, Dordogne, Arles, Antibes, Genoa) plus add a few day trips, it comes up to approximately 3000 km (a little less than 1900 miles). For perspective that is about the equivalent of going from New York to Atlanta to Chicago to St Louis. Even though the London trip is via train, it is still LOTS of travel time with lots of checking in and out of hotels.

Since your trip is only about a month away, I'm not sure how much of your trip is locked in. I hope you can trim a few things to reduce the travel time and spend more time enjoying some of the fun places you have chosen.

Dropping Genoa and thanks for London advice, etc.
 

Hello all posters! I'm still sifting through all the responses and note that I'm only allowed to send 2 posts in 24 hours so I'll be addressing a few suggestions together in this post, and then some later. I am signed up for email notifications regarding posts in this thread, but I've only received 2 notifications since my first post more than a week ago. This post has location headings for those people who don't want to read the entire thing.

PARIS: 4 nights, unchanged. We booked a great kids/family tour of the Louvre through AirB&B, of course the Eiffel Tower, a bike tour of Versailles, and a family walking tour of the Marais. I left a full day with nothing specific planned so we can be spontaneous. I'm excited to discover our hotel is very close to the Rodin museum. New question: my mother in law, who is 89, sent me the key to a restaurant in Paris called Restaurant Lasserre. In 1957, on a trip there with her best friend, she joined or was given a membership to the "dining club" and mentioned that we might try to go there. Now, I looked it up and it seems to be an iconic place, and expensive. I would not want to take my children there. Would it be advisable to hire a hotel babysitter and dine there with my husband?

LONDON: Thank you to the person who gave advice about our whirlwind trip to London and back. I appreciate your comment about bad hotel location, and potentially bad hotel. So, we canceled the Royal Eagle and re-booked at the Z Hotel in right in Covent Garden. The room looks tiny, but it shouldn't really matter. It will be easier with a central hotel, and now we'll go to a show given proximity to the playhouses. I floated the idea of not going to London and I was out-voted by my family, so I will embrace the craziness of the quick trip.

LOIRE: I really love the detailed suggestions about what to see with kids along our route! Thank you!!

DORDOGNE: Sorry to those who were mystified trying to find Therac. It's actually Thenac, and I have bad handwriting which I transcribed badly. Thenac is very close to Bergerac. This is about an hour and 20 minutes to Lascaux. To me that's not far if there are interesting places to stop on the home to lodging. I would love any suggestions about that. We're leaning toward making our reservation in Thenac 3 nights.

ARLES: Unchanged, 3 nights at a charming place with grounds and a pool.

GENOA: To the people who chimed in about Genoa, thanks, very helpful! We've decided to drop it based on your advice and comments. It was hard to do because I love Italy, and we were going to take a cheap flight out of there instead of driving all the way back to Paris. However, I'm noticing that Marseilles has flights close to the same price (Nice is more), and the train costs even less. So, we might drop off the rental car and opt for a more relaxed train return to Paris. We are still trying to decide how to do the last couple days of the trip, whether or not to keep the day and night in Antibes.

More soon. We are trying to simplify, but it's hard! So many beautiful places...

Laserre is beyond my idea of expensive - appetizers at 100 euros? OK, if that suits you, but hardly anything would make a drop of caviar be worth it to me (especially with all of France at my doorstep). Up to you, though. It sure is pretty (but so is my back yard).

PLEASE, PLEASE do not stay in Thénac. For those of us who live here in the lovely Dordogne, Thénac is nothing but an ugly, out-of-the-way stop on one of the local railway lines. Don't stay there. Don't even stop and see it. Find a place within about a 25-km radius of Sarlat, focusing on the south and the west. Some villages to consider: Castelnaud, Vitrac, Beynac, La Roque-Gageac, Le Coux-et-Bigaroque, Le Buisson, Cadouin, Le Bugue, Meyrals, St-Cyprien,Tamniès, St-Géniès, Marquay, Monpazier, Belvès, Montignac, Tursac...gosh,there are SO many! But please, NOT Thénac!

I'd pick Chinon or Loches in the Loire, with Amboise and Blois as runners-up.

Just quick: >> I'm only allowed to send 2 posts in 24 hours so I'll be addressing a few suggestions together in this post, and then some later.<<

I'm not 100% sure but I think you've hit the threshold that allows free posting. From observation I know it is 'around' 5 posts, so you should be good to go - off probabtion ;)

more 'just quick' (don't have time to post more right now) . . . The Z is in a wonderful location. You can walk through the back of St Paul's church garden (this is thesmall 'Actors church' - not the Cathedral) to get to the front ot the Covent Garden Piazza, the street performers and you are 2 blocks from the London Transport Museum and about 5 blocks from Trafalgar Square.

>> Thenac is very close to Bergerac. This is about an hour and 20 minutes to Lascaux. <<


Like St Cirq - no, no, no!!!!!! Thenac is 1 hr 50 mins from Lascaux. Same time to Sarlat, Beynac, Roque Gageac, Castelhaud. It is the middle of nowhere!!!! Remember, just like choosing a home - the three most important things to consider are location, location, location. You would not choose to base in San Mateo to explore the Sonoma/Napa wine country would you?? You do not want to spend 4 1/2 hrs in the car each day "getting there" to visit the wonderful sites in the Dordogne.

Consider the advice of people who have "been there"!!!

Stu Dudley

StCirq and StuDudly, thank you very much for the comments about Dordogne! Point taken about Thenac. I love it when people are opinionated, I find it refreshing. The lodging there, Chateau Panisseau, looked so extremely nice on the Internet with 5 star customer reviews and people saying it was a good base for "exploring the area". Didn't know! I guess it depends on what "area" one is exploring and they probably mean the surrounding wine country close to Bergerac. Le Google probably needs to fix it's maps also. They indicate a shorter drive.

So, I'm taking your advice. Now I'm holding a couple of reservations for 24 hours while I decide on either Sarlat-La-Caneda or Montignac for 3 nights. Trying to decide. The place in Montignac might be better for my kids because it has a pool, a trampoline and huge grounds. But I think I would love the more bustling Sarlat-La-Caneda. It's nice to have some good options and the prices in that area were very reasonable. The other thing I could do is reduce it to 2 nights and extend in Amboise for a night because we're only currently there for one.

We are going to train back from southern France at the end. Now I have another question, about trains. Perhaps should post elsewhere, but does anyone have experience with OUIgo, the new low-cost, high speed train? It's sooooo inexpensive, and we were going to drop the rental car and try to take it back to CDG Paris from the south the day before our flight home. How dependable is it? Would you place a gamble on it's not being canceled? It's only about 69 euro for my entire family to go from Avignon to CDG and we don't mind packing our own picnic. But, I heard they sometimes cancel and then you have pay last minute prices for the TGV, if it's not full.

Thank you again everyone!