You could cut out some travel by basing yourselves in Interlaken and doing Montreaux by train as a day trip.

You can explore Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen, Grindlewald, etc from your home-base.

hilary - I take it you are going by train - in those wintery areas cars can encounter icy roads, etc - but if going by Europe's fantastic rail system to that many places be all means look at the Global Eurailpass that lets you in most of your countries hop any train any time - all the way to Tromso if you want.

Take overnight trains to save daytime travel time and also save on a night in a hotel. For lots of great stuff on planning a European trail trip check these fine sources: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

The pass if over 25 is automatically first class and that IME of decades of European ail travel has definite advantages, especially for folks hauling around often too much luggage - usually a lot more empty seats to put luggage on, etc and bigger seats.

Being young and energetic doesn't mean you have to come up with a bad plan. You say you want 'constructive rather than hurtful' and that's fine. But what happens when you perceive what is in fact constructive as being hurtful? In simple terms without meaning to be 'hurtful', your plan sucks. It's about your PLAN, not about you as a person.

You have no doubt done what most do. Come up with a list of places you think you would like to visit and then divided the time available by the list to arrive at a 'days' per place list. That is the wrong way to go about it. It is the equivalent of trying to stuff an elephant into your suitcase.

Start by deciding how many places you can visit given the amount of time you have available. To do that, you need to consider the practicalities of travel.

First as already mentioned, every time you move you lose at least half if not most of a day. So you must count 1 day for travel between places each time you move. You cannot count it as both a day moving and a day IN a place.

Second, in winter it gets dark as also already mentioned. The sun will have set by 5pm. That means you should figure on being in your destination for the night before then unless you want to be two young women walking dark streets.

I suggest you use a simple formula to begin planning. Start with 4nights/3 full days per place. If you have 60 nights that means you should be looking at around 15 places. You might spend a night less in one or a night more in another but that is a reasonable average. It also limits your moving days to 25% of your total time.

The common desire is to 'see as much as possible'. The problem is that people confuse the word 'much' with the word 'many'. They are not synonymous. The way to see as 'much' as possible is to spend time IN places not Between places. In travel as in mnay things, less is more. The less you move, the more you see/do.

Your latest list is 19 places. Cut it some more.

How are you planning on travelling Oslo-Tromsø? There is no train line north of Bodø (except for the Narvik-Kiruna-Lulea line on Swedish railways). You will spend a lot of time travelling if by rail and bus and Tromsø is out of your way if you are travelling Narvik-Kiruna. There are lots of activities in Tromsø so maybe worth the visit though. Cheapest to fly Oslo-Tromsø and bus Tromsø-Narvik.

Hi all.

@halfapair thanks for that link, I'll check it out. Thanks for the Switzerland suggestion, to be honest though I fear that if we spend more than four nights in one place we'll get bored! If we have six nights in Switzerland I feel as though it's better to split them up evenly (three in Montreaux and three in Interlaken). What are your thoughts?

@janisj we have looked into the Eurail Global Pass, it gives us 15 days (24 full hours each) worth of rail travel. While in Switzerland we may also purchase the Swiss Card.

@PalenQ thanks for your advice on the rail pass, I will make sure to look at these options before we purchase.

@dulciusexasperis I just feel as though people could be a bit more encouraging. No need to make me feel stupid, believe it or not I have actually out a lot of time and effort into this. Of course I agree I would never want to out my sister and myself in danger. I've revised my itinerary and put it below, would definitely love to hear your thoughts.

@dyoll We have booked a direct flight from Oslo to Tromso, because we booked it so early it was extremely cheap.

My current itinerary includes flying direct from Kiruna to Stockholm, staying a few nights there then getting the ferry (as suggested) to Helsinki. I would love your opinions. Thank you all for helping me shape this itinerary, I really appreciate it.


Here is a revised itinerary.
-4 nights in Paris
-3 nights in Montreaux
-3 nights in Interlaken
-2 nights in Fussen
-2 nights in Oberammergau (in Bavaria)
-2 nights in Mannheim (staying with friends)
-4 nights in Prague
-4 nights in Berlin
-3 nights in Hamburg (staying with friends)
-3 nights in Copenhagen
-3 nights in Oslo (staying with friends)
-3 nights in Tromso
-3 nights in Kiruna (including one at the Ice Hotel)
-3 nights in Stockholm
-3 nights in Helsinki
-4 nights in London

<<in winter it gets dark as also already mentioned. The sun will have set by 5pm. That means you should figure on being in your destination for the night before then unless you want to be two young women walking dark streets.>>

In the Nordics, the sun sets much earlier than 5pm during Dec/Jan. It starts setting at about 3pm in Stockholm & probably no or little daylight in Tromso. People walk about these cities after dark, I wouldn't worry about it.

<<Frankfurt has no particular Christmas market.>> I don't believe this is true, I have been to the Christmas market in Frankfurt 3 years ago.

hilary0993 - Travelling abroad is great fun, but can also be exhausting. You will find yourself constantly thinking about language and cultural differences, etc. And this can wear you out. You will want to plan a little "vacation from your vacation" in the middle, if you can. Something relaxing where you can take a breather.

After several trips together, DH and I have instituted some "rules" for our trips.

We try to stay at least 3 nights in one place to keep from feeling like we're rushing from place to place. We like to stay several nights - up to 7 - in one place and use it as a base to see the nearby sights; especially in large cities which have so much to offer.

In Switzerland we stayed in the little town of Lauterbrunnen for 5 nights, got over our jetlag, day-tripped to Montreaux and went up to the Jungfrau, and saw other nearby sights. We were never bored.

Do plenty of research on the places you're going and you won't be bored. Take time to stroll, people watch, window shop, etc.

You are a nice person, Hilary. Fodorites could learn a lot from you.

At your age, I think you can move at this pace. I could not. But most 20 year olds don't need vacations from their vacations. Go for it and have fun. I am impressed you are planning this far in advance!

20 years old - take a strong look at the Global Eurail Youthpass - a 2nd class pass and normally I extol the benefits of first class but for younger folk you can put up with a less relaxed ride and save a ton of money!

Still too much moving for me but it's much better than it was.

When I was in my 20's and backpacked Europe for 2 months I hit about 20 to 25 destinations in a 2 month period. I had done zero research before leaving and my whole travel plan consisted of "land in Amsterdam and see what happens". No itinerary, no pre-booked lodging and no idea of what I was going to do. I had a Eurail ticket that was good for two months of unlimited travel in 17 countries and I put it to good use. It was the best time of my life and looking back I wouldn't change a thing. So in comparison to what I did your itinerary looks very manageable. You'll have a blast, trust me. :)

FMT why don't you start a thread and call it:

Things Old Travellers to Europe Seem Not to Understand

FMT, you traveled the way my 3 kids did at 20. I think they also had a blast.

Now cold, I think you're being facetious.

Julie - I think for myself and most 20 somethings the travel and experiencing as much sensory overload as possible is the best part of the adventure.