Winter 2016. 6+ weeks. More rural than urban with car - where? (LONG)
 

We usually leave Toronto for the winter - going somewhere different every year. It seems every other year we are somewhere in Europe. We were unable to travel in Winter 2015 due to health issues (and of course it was the coldest bloody winter in Toronto since the year Dot).

We're determined to go away this year but Richard's recovery from his knee replacement surgery has been slower than expected (perhaps our expectations were a bit optimistic). It means we're wise to shape our travel style around his current mobility (and any improvements will be a bonus).

Ordinarily we would spend several weeks in a town/city in an apartment and explore it - then spend a few weeks on the road with a rental car exploring the countryside. This year we will likely have a car the entire time and stay rural. That way we can drive right up to a rental villa and do day trips from there. (driving is fine for him - walking is coming more slowly - committing to being in a town right now would be a major mistake. And we love day trips - happy to go up to 90 minutes in one direction)

We'll keep it flexible and possibly add time in a city if Richard's mobility improves closer to departure (and traveling at that time of year it's easy to book at the last minute). Right now I'm trying to decide on our broad geography.

Note we do not mind resort/beachy places in the off season - we're used to towns being quiet - and the best restaurants are the ones still open in the off season we've found. Overall flatter terrain is likely better than a massive number of hill towns for our day trips. Also weather isn't a huge deal - above freezing is our hope and not too rainy (that last part is a wish but often the reality of winter we realize)

Following are considerations:

Italy:

- we've spent a lot of time north of Rome ... love it but would like a different area
- have recently spent time in Sardinia so also not on the list
- Sicily is a consideration although we spent over a month there in a similar fashion
- Puglia is also a consideration - have spent some time there but its geography is large and we did love it
- probably the most serious contender right now is Calabria/Basilicata - other than two nights in Tropea haven't spent any time there
- Up the east coast - Pescara etc? Have never been but weather might be a consideration

France:

- Nice area? Maybe base near Menton and we could travel into Italy for day trips/overnights? Know the area well from multiple trips but never have had extended time there
- we loved Corsica - spent a week there in January a few years ago. It's a consideration for at least part of the time and could twin well with Nice/et al
- Provence/Burgundy/Dordogne - also know these areas well from multiple trips but not extended stays - a consideration

Spain/Portugal

- Southern Spain - base in/near Malaga? This is the hardest one I think. We were booked to go to Spain and Portugal this year and we had to cancel it. Our itinerary was full of the wonderful sites in Southern Spain (Alhambra, etc) and I just don't know if we will be able to visit them right now. And I don't want to add pressure/stress by having all these wonderful sites so nearby. I think it will wait
- same thing with Portugal - we had a great itinerary in Lisbon and north but it's very hilly and not a practical choice for us - I think?

Croatia:

- spent over a month there in March 2012 in a similar way with a car - loved it

UK

- haven't spent any time in the UK for years - I suppose the most significant barrier we see is cost. The Canadian dollar is so weak versus the Pound. Also rainy weather is a bit of a consideration.

If you're still reading - thanks!

Any suggestions most appreciated.

Your need for a flatter terrain and an easy-going sightseeing agenda makes me want to suggest Nice/Menton, and area which claims to have more sunny days than any other spot in Europe (give or take a few, I would guess).

If your 6-week span includes February, Menton has a somewhat legendary lemon festival.

I don't know if you want all six weeks there, but for a slower paced/recuperation holiday, with dips into the Italian Riviera for some better food ;), could work out nicely.

I do think Lisbon/Portugal is way to steep. Basilicata is quite mountainous, and the weather can be wintry away from the coast. Don't know about Calabria.

Does your husband's recuperation make him wary of uneven surfaces? Italy -- maybe especially southern Italy - is so lacking in modern sidewalks and good nighttime lighting (winter days are short), it would lead me in the direction of France and/or parts of well-developed southern Spain.

Thanks sandralist for your quick, thoughtful response.

Uneven surfaces aren't the problem - he is actually walking very well but just has very limited range. But steep would be awkward.

We are hopeful that in another 6 weeks (the time before departure) he will have some more gains but don't want to put undue pressure on him.

Our window is likely last week of January to first/second week of March. The lemon festival sounds fun.

If uneven surfaces aren't a problem then I would suggest Salerno as a possibility, because you can visit Pompei from there and beautiful Paestum. Plus eat lovely food. And Naples is easily reachable by train if he's up for that challenge. A great deal of the Amalfi coast would be off limits due to steepness, but some of it is accessible and flat if you can deal with the drive on a sunny day. And you can head to points south of Salerno for beautiful vistas and interesting truly southern Italian towns.

This is the official website for the lemon festival in Menton

http://www.fete-du-citron.com/lemon-...vents/?lang=en

I'm not quite clear I understand why not being able to walk well would be okay in rural but not urban areas. I guess that means you would just drive places and only walk from car to wherever you are going, I guess, and then from the car to the rental, and stay in a lot. Compared to a city where you couldn't drive around the urban area.

If so, you couldn't consider staying actually in Malaga, it's a city and you'd have to walk a lot. I'm not sure if you think it is a small town/village or what, but it isn't. You couldn't visit the Alhambra if you can't walk a lot. You could stay in some rural area in southern Spain, of course, and not go to any big cities.

>> suppose the most significant barrier we see is cost. The Canadian dollar is so weak versus the Pound.<<

Don't discount the UK if cost is the main issue. Perhaps you have made the 'rookie mistake' of looking at the Can$2 = £1 and €1.45 and figure the pound is too high. It doesn't work that way. Now, <i>some</i> countries in the Eurozone will be cheaper than others . . . because their standard of living is lower. But some eurozone countries will be much more expensive - and they all use the same currency.

Your costs in 'real money' ;) would be about 7% or 8% more than for someone from the States in either zone (because the US$ is stronger). But just currency-wise the £ and € are about the same 'value'.

You may want to go to Italy - great. But don't choose it because you think their currency is 'cheaper'.

I'm surprised you say that Janis.
To me, living in the Netherlands, the UK is expensive, and often not worth the added expense, even as my home country.
France, Italy and Spain are all better value.

Don't get overly excited about the lemon festival in Menton. It was okay for a couple hours but nothing too great.

We spent a few days in Villefranche sur Mer one February, and the weather was more than acceptable for us (we are from Minnesota), so you might want to check that out for rental possibilities. I was surprised that there were more interesting things to do on the Cote d'Azur than we would have anticipated.

Perhaps you do not need to be entirely rural and could find accommodation in a smaller city/town with parking right at the door. Several years ago we rented a very nice apartment in Sansepolcro (a town in the Arezzo area so further north in Italy than you probably want to be) that had parking right outside of the door.

Elizabeth have you considered Ireland btw ?

>>I'm surprised you say that Janis. <<

Them's the facts ma'am :)

You are in the € zone so the calculation might be different. >>France, Italy and Spain are all better value<< while other € countries will be more expensive for you. But that doesn't relate to the £/€ rates vs the CAN & US dollars.

Yes, I didn't imagine you'd want to be at a lemon festival for more than a few hours.

Agree from experience that the UK is overall more expensive than France, Spain and Italy -- where I consider the standard of living to be higher and in particular quality of life better than UK, but not surprised to keep reading on Fodor's to ignore this. Neither Ireland or the UK would be places I would go in winter to escape bad weather.

This place near Vence looks charming and nicely priced. Being near a largish town like Vence would make for easy shopping, but you are well situated for lots of day trips.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/VacationR..._Provence.html

Well, on second thought, the bed arrangment in that place I linked to probably isn't going to work for somebody needing to give their knees a break. But Vence is a nice semi-rural location, central to a lot of things, and where you should be able to drive right up to the door in most rentals, and winter prices should be attractive, as well as the weather.

I agree, in general, that the UK is more expensive. Someone will always take the stance that it isn't but we don't have to agree, even with an "expert".

However, it can depend on how one spends their money. By that I mean, in particular, how we choose to find our accommodations, usually the biggest outlay on any trip. I'm prone to pointing to Airbnb but I also put my money where my mouth is and I've made plans for the spring, all in Airbnb accommodations and all very affordable, including London. I'm fussy, want an ensuite, top reviews and want to be close to a tube station and with some work, I'll admit, have found myself exactly what I want at a price I can afford, about on a par, or even less, than what I'd pay for a room where I live in the US. Wherever you decide to stay, do have a look at their website before you spend more than you'd like.

I want to clarify "...what I'd pay for a room where I live in the US." - an Airbnb room. Also, many Airbnb hosts give good discounts for a stay of a week or more, making it an even better bargain. So many users of the site can't all be wrong.

We spent a few days in southern Andalusia in February 2012 and it was terrific. Trip report - http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ruary-2012.cfm

Does it have to be Europe? The weather would probably be better in South America or parts of Asia.

But if it has to be Europe, I love Nice in the off season, and it does have good public transport.

While I agree with janisj that England doesn't have to be expensive, there is no way I would spend the winter there if I were traveling to escape bad weather. (I grew up there...)

Since you mentioned the Adriatic coast of Italy, I would suggest Le Marche, where I live, and I'm only slightly prejudiced. I really like the town of Senigallia, which is near where I live. It's a beach town, but unlike most beach towns, it has a lively historic center all year round, with interesting little shops and great restaurants. The town is very flat.

Inland there are lots of charming towns, hill towns and towns in the valley. Even many of the hill towns are pretty flat once you get up the hill.

I live about 20 km inland, in the foothills of the Apennines. Here, it doesn't freeze very often, and almost never stays below freezing all day. We get snow that sticks around all day about 1 year in four. On the coast, it rarely snows at all. It can be drizzly and foggy, though, for days at a time.

Fano is another seaside town I like, but Senigallia is my favorite. Pesaro is larger than either, but in my opinion lacks character. Ancona is in a scenic position, but is urban in an unfortunately unplanned way. Most of the other seaside towns near here fold up in October and stay that way until April. I don't know the towns south of Ancona very well.

The cost of living is fairly low here, and off-season rentals should be quite affordable. Food costs about the same as elsewhere in Italy, but restaurants (and rather good restaurants at that) are reasonably priced.

We have to be frugal where we stay in the UK. Some places you get good value and some places not. It is cheaper than some US cities. I hear all the Canadian snowbirds talk about the difference in their dollar to ours. They still come to Fl but just eat cheaper and buy less. Many have winter homes here.
I hope it comes back up for you.
We have been looking at Edinburgh and we can get a nice accommodation at a reasonable price even with the exchange difference. Apartments are the way to go for that and eating in a few meals. I have to watch my bar bill more than anything.
We have been looking at Spain, White Towns of Andalusia for winter.

Elizabeth--

When you come back to look at all of the responses you got, will you also give out some advice? Can you tell me which of the places you mentioned in your original post you have actually visited in the winter and then comment on how they were as winter destinations? We too feel that quite a lot of the world's weather, even if it is not very warm, is better than the cold, snowy, icy and crummy climate we are from.

And, if you are open to a place other than Europe, I have a thought. We've spent time in Merida, Mexico, an old colonial city in the Yucatan. It is absolutely flat. You can drive quite a few interesting places within your 90 minute parameters. It is one of the safest cities in Mexico and doesn't have the crime issues that scare so many people away. Cost of living is cheap. Rentals are very reasonable, and you could find one where you can park outside your door. But, since winter is peak season, you'd probably need to start looking for a rental right now.

Hi Elizabeth

So glad to hear you are still planning your winter escape. Sorry to hear Richard's recovery wasn't at the "hoped for" rate, but I am glad that he is seeing regular progress.

I'm not sure about your comfort with Spanish, but I've talked recently with some friends who are excited about Colombia. Accommodations are reasonable and the weather much more agreeable than by the blustery lake.

Wherever you choose, I know we can all look forward to some wonderful stories upon your return.

tC

so many math majors . . . >)

Yes -- London can be expensive -- or not. But in the rest of the UK, not so much. Especially in smaller towns and villages. My point was not that the UK is cheaper. It was that the <u>Exchange Rates</u> are very comparable. The OP isn't the only one to make this miscalculation - because the € is 'cheaper" vs the $ does NOT mean it is a better <u>exchange rate</u>.

Apples and oranges. The OP said >>The Canadian dollar is so weak versus the Pound. << . . . It is no weaker against the £ than it is against the €.

Going somewhere else is TOTALLY understandable and TOTALLY fine . . . but NOT because of the exchange rates . . .

Elizabeth. I can probably help. One is not allowed to advertise here (I tried to post a link, but they thought that was what I was doing, and they took down the post- fair dos). Email me if you want. Addy on my profile.

You won't find it hard to be cheap in Europe n winter. The world's your oyster, babe

There are days I'm too stupid to be allowed. It wasn't here I posted. It was the other place you asked

Wow - thanks for all the help! I've tried to comment/answer questions below

- Salerno is an interesting idea which we could twin with something further south. Thx

- Christina - yes your "guess" is right. Re Malaga - I should have said near Malaga to be clearer that I was looking for a rural drive in/drive out place to stay but have day trip access elsewhere. As I mentioned I am leery about the South of Spain given our canceled travel plans from earlier this year and my knowledge that we would want to visit all the fabulous sites/cathedrals, etc. As things are now he couldn't do that kind of standing/walking around museums, etc.

- re the Pound - I shouldn't have used the exchange rate as my reason (lazy writing!) it's the relative value of goods in the UK versus some of the other areas we're considering. And I think most agree the UK is more expensive than the other areas we're considering. However that's by no means a deal breaker

- Villefranche sur Mer is lovely - will look at it as a base. And yes a small town with parking at hand would fit the bill as well. Probably my first preference but am remaining open to ideas.

- And we remember Vence fondly from other trips - will have a look at it too but not that house! LOL - we are such klutzes we'd fall from the kitchen into the living room twice a day!

- Haven't considered Ireland as a winter destination -- same for Scotland

- thanks for the trip report Gardyloo -- Gibraltar was on and off our itinerary many times (the one we didn't do)

- We've spent quite a bit of time in South America and loved it. Parts of it can fit the driving holiday scenario. Europe is so easy for us to get to at the last minute flightwise given it's off season and we don't want to book until we're more certain (which is ruling out Asia and NZ/OZ for me). But I should reconsider SA (and take into account AA's suggestion of Columbia as well)

- I'm going to have a closer look at Le Marche thank you - that area has interested us for a long time

- julies - I have noted where we stayed in winter below:

- two months in Rome
- Tuscany (Lucca for a month) and Venice and area (month)
- two weeks in Sardinia
- one week in Corsica
- Croatia - month of March in Istria and Dubrovnik
- Amalfi coast/Puglia
- Nice area (but not for very long)
- Paris for 6 weeks mid December to end January
- Barcelona for two months (it was Springlike actually)
- a few nights in Amsterdam

We would go back to any of the places above in a heartbeat, despite pretty crummy weather in some of them (it snowed for a week in Lucca!). But we're happy if it's above freezing and we dress well for the rain (and I'm from Vancouver originally so maybe I'm more tolerant of rain). As I mentioned we even like the deserted beach towns in February!

Re Merida - we were near there last year and loved it. Rented a car and drove around the ruins but didn't spend time in the city. (Westjet just launched a direct flight from Toronto with airfares under $500!). I'm not sure if 6 weeks would be too long though?

- and Sheila - thank you so much for the info - I saw it on the other link and will drop you a note. Very interesting idea!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Have you considered Malta? I think it's one of those love-it-or-hate-it places, but I was one who loved it.

And if you are re-considering South America, I have to say that I had a very lovely time in Colombia: http://www.fodors.com/community/sout...r-colombia.cfm
Cartagena could make you forget winter exists! :)

Thanks Amy! We spent a week in Malta (I forgot!)in March 2008 sussing it out as a winter destination for us. We loved it but weren't sure we'd spend 6-8 weeks there. But now you mention it I should definitely reconsider.

And obviously Columbia needs to be on my list of places to visit!

I commented elsewhere on Colombia. Haven't been yet, but from my research I'm not sure it would work given the restraints you have listed.

Hot Artichoke Dip - people love this!!

Ingredients

1 – 14 oz. can artichoke hearts 398ml
drained & chopped
1/2 cup freshly grated Parmesan
cheese 125ml
1 cup mayonnaise 250ml
1 garlic clove, minced
dash lemon juice

Instructions

Mix all ingredients. Bake at 350F (180C) for 10 minutes. Serve with crackers

LOL - wrong thread! But a great recipe!

Elizabeth--

You say you spent Tuscany two weeks in Sardinia and one week in Corsica. And, I believe you also said you spent a month in Sicily at some point (maybe not winter though). I believe you said you really liked Corsica. Why did you prefer it to Sardinia? And, how did both of these places compare to Sicily? We just spent three weeks there in October and really liked it. Also, were you on both of these islands in January, and what was the weather like then?

We've often talked about a month in Venice after Carnival is over. What month were you there, and were there any problems? We were there for 5 days over New Year's once and had fine weather. Another year we spent a week in May and had aqua alta.

Thanks.

julies:

We were in Corsica in January and Sardinia in early February (different years). Don't have a strong preference either way - enjoyed them both very much.

Sardinia is similar to Sicily - Greek ruins (not as many or as well preserved)and beach resorts. We stayed one week in Cagliari and one week outside of Alghero. We enjoyed day trips from the latter.

Sardinia may have a slight edge for food although the Corsican cuisine is really good!

We had great weather in both places - bright and sunny with daytime highs of 7C-10C. Sat outside for lunch or drinks several times.

Re Venice - we were there in February overlapping with Carnival for one week. Weather was a mixed bag - some rain/lovely sun/cool - but we always had good weather when we needed it.

We had acqua alta one night - amazing! Pic below outside our apartment

http://lizandrichardsa.typepad.com/....61e4bf3970d-pi

And here's a link to our blog - you can see the nice weather we had

http://lizandrichardsa.typepad.com/p...beyond/venice/

Sardinia blog

http://lizandrichardsa.typepad.com/2...ly/b-sardinia/

Some Corsica here

http://lizandrichardsa.typepad.com/p...way-to-venice/

The canary Islands and Morocco

bilboburgler - Canary Islands are interesting. Which then reminded me of the Azores which is a possibility too.

LiZ--

Thanks for the links. I've started to take a look at them but will spend more time on them later.

I had a couple other thoughts for you: Cyprus and Crete. Haven't been to either one, but they are on our list.

I'm not going to get into the cost issues of the UK. But the UK could be an issue for your husband's knee. Generally speaking, it will be damper there than in many of the other places you're considering. Does dampness/humidity bother your husband? If yes, in any way, then pick someplace that's drier overall.

Some people aren't affected at all by humidity or a chilly dampness. Others, even with replacement joints are. I have mild to moderate osteoarthritis in one knee and oddly enough, I find that it actually feels better in a warm, humid climate (Singapore, for example). Mine reacts more to the weather as it changes (from dry to damp or vice versa) but then is fine once the change has taken place (the worst, for me, are the hours before the rain arrives).

Anyway, just something to mull over. Good luck with your trip planning and with your husband's recovery!

(If it were me, I'd go to Mallorca, probably Palma or Soller -- I'd like to see the almond blossoms, there are good deals to be had on rentals, the sun will be shining -- clouds and rain too, admittedly, and chilly at night -- and while there will still be people around, it won't be crowded)

Lots of great ideas for now and future trips!

Before the knee replacement weather wasn't a huge factor for him but we don't know how it will respond. Since we would like to visit Ireland and Scotland I think it will likely be a different time of year.

Regarding 2 suggestions above, spent a March in Marrakech, cold & rainy, no heating in the hotel, thought I'd freeze to death.

And Mallorca, read George Sand, 'Winter in Mallorca'.

Although either place may be sunny and warm, but not reliably so.