I just clicked on the name of the poster and now I'm really confused. Is this the same oneillchris who posted the following:

"We always skip Madrid,Bilbao,Barcelona,Zaragoza,Pamplona. Big cities are big cities everywhere and although there are some beautiful edifices, how many churches do you really need. IHMO"

So if he doesn't believe in visiting big cities, then sure, the idea of having a car makes even more sense.

But even more confusing, is this also the same oneillchris who just today posted that when he attends a hockey game in Montreal he always parks his car and takes the Metro? No, this must be another oneillchris!

Chris, I have to tell you that I admire your sheer bravery/stupidity for driving in Rio and Sao Paulo. I lived in SP for a year and went to Rio too. I'll never forget seeing the metro bus careen around the corner in Rio, tip over, and see all the injured get carted off, then see those left over help get the bus back on its wheels and drive off.

The driving in South America is insane, and I found myself at equal danger in Rome and Paris as a pedestrian.

As far as I'm concerned, driving around, finding parking and navigating streets in a car in any major city is just plain unnecessary. It contributes to an already big congestion problem and is unnecessarily expensive. But that's me and my budget-mindedness at work.

I can't imagine anyone telling you not to drive in Tuscany -- heck when I go that's probably what we'll do too.

Is your "biggest issue" with taking a train is "(FEAR)" that you'll not be in control of where you're going, perhaps lose your luggage, or god forbid, have to interact with some locals? One can't help but wonder.

But I will tell you this, Europeans aren't nearly as obsessed about personal freedom to drive wherever it pleases them, and they do still manage to live meaningful happy lives, even carless in Tuscany I'm sure.

Happy travels.

Jules

The decision also depends on your traveling party and destinations. While 2, 3, 4 people touring the countryside together works out nicely in a car, I sure don't want to rent one as a solo traveler visiting major cities.

I can't recall any posts saying "cars are useless" and speaking for myself neither budget nor "fear of driving in a foreign country" have any part in my decision to go by train. It's simply more practical and more fun for me.

A car in the big cities is a hassel and time consuming. A car to travel in surrounding areas is perfect.

In a city, you have to learn your way around, find parking places (which can be hard to do), and many hotels charge for parking. Four trips, in one day, in a taxi in Rome cost around $$25-$30.
Car rental at least as much.

When we lived in Paris, my father rentd a spot in a garage just so that he would not have to drive around and end up walking .5 to 1 mile to his office.

A car is perfect to tour the Loire Valley, but if am only going to Orleans, why rent a car?

When I was in Denver, I was rediculed for taking a $27 taxi ride once. If I drove, it would have cost $4 in gas plus $20 for a full day of parking. Also, I did not have to worry about drinking too much.

Chris
I know there will be reprisals here, but I'm going to defend your position re:renting a car. My DH always rents a car, and I always navigate. We've had some very interesting experiences in some of the bigger cities in Europe, but have had many a laugh as well. And yes, we've gotten lost (an interesting drive around Florence this past April) but I wouldn't trade our "road trips" for anything.

I would typically join my DH in Europe after he had been there for several days, and would take a train from ZRH or FRA to meet up with him. I enjoy those relaxing train rides, but must admit that it's liberating to be free to make stops at will when you have your own four wheels.

That said, DH would NEVER dream of renting a car in Bangkok. We also did not rent in Rio. But in Europe, after having been a visitor there, twice yearly, since 1978, there is nothing he/we enjoy better than driving our rental car in Europe.

That's my 2 cents!

simpson, I'm curious. If you were flying to Paris (or Rome) where you were staying for a week and then leaving to travel for a couple more weeks -- would you rent the car on arrival for your week in the city? Or would you wait until you were about to leave the city and then rent it?

Hi
I'd like to join the fray. My Wife and I always rent a car. She drives and I navigate. We don't rent when in a major city, but when we leave. We use Public transportation or walk. Driving is easy, the name of the place is written the same on the map and road sign. The roads are usually good if not fair. It gives us the freedom without depending on a bus or train schedule. We've driven in Paris when we brought the car back, not much different than NYC. we use up to date road maps, especially in Central Europe. It allows us to go to out of the way places in our own time. This year we're picking our car up when we leave Berlin and are going to the former East Germany. we can make changes in our itinerary as we go along.

We rent upon arrival, and drop it off when ready to fly home!

aeiger
I hope you enjoy the former eastern Germany as much as we did. We ventured to Erfurt and Suhl and spent a few days there. We also stopped along the way in Gotha but not for an over night.

Enjoy!

OK, but what do you do with that car if you don't have occasion to use it for a whole week in Paris? Do you permanently park it in a garage, or do you say you park at your hotel or apartment and drive everywhere IN Paris? Like do you drive it to dinner in the city or drive it to a local museum? I'm not being argumentative here, but really trying to understand why if someone is staying IN a big city like Paris why they would want or use a car for that whole week -- partly because it seems like an inconvenience and definitely because it costs a whole lot of money between the rental and the parking.

Or what I meant to say was, does your answer about picking up on arrival mean you DON'T spend a week in a city? My question was WHAT IF you did spend a week in the city, would you still rent a car for that week?

Patrick
We'd still have the car, yes. But do we walk? Yes, of course. But we also are free to drive to other parts of the city if we want to. We typically do not stay in a city for a week at a time.

Not topping,replying.

No the issue was never to limit anyones freedom to choose, my issue was that some people are so adamant about not choosing a car. Just read how hostile some of these posts are. I just say it can be an option for some, not everyone wants to travel a la backpack, In Montreal where I live we have a world class metro...Never been on that one either.

And for all those who find it so difficult to beleive using a car in paris is unusual, we have been to paris 8x and used a car downtown everytime. Why would you park it!!! Anyway anyone who thinks Rome and Paris are chaotic have never driven in Rio or Sao Paulo.

Again if its because of budget or choice, fine but having talked with many travellers they are often confined because they are too phobic to use a car.

Oh one last thing, the issue about my "wives" paese versus my wife's paese, my mother tongue is french so please excuse the faux-pas oh grammatically correct one. Come on guys leave the personal cracks out of the board.

Wow, Chris, are you saying you've never even tried using the Metro in any of these cities? And what makes you think that only backpackers use this efficient system? That's really too bad that you completely discount this mode of travel; for what reason(s) I won't speculate publicly.

And you say "Why would you park it!!!" What do you do with your car when you get out to sight see? Do you? Or do you just "see" everything through the car window? Wow.

One more time, I cant beleive the reaction to this post, such polar replies, PS Thanks Simpson!

Again no one is faulting anyone for using public transportation, great if its for you!

What I'm saying and its evident in the replies is that here we have a tendancy to be nego on the car rentals!!! Why

Take for instance my last trip to Rome my wife and I got lost on the Veccio Apia which if I,m correct is the Apian Way! We stopped at a restaurant and enjoyed the best meal of the trip!! I'm sure the bus doesn't stop there and certainly not the Metro and how can getting lost on the apian way be a nego!!!

Come on guys, I'm not dissin public transport but not evryone wants to travel on a budget.

Whats important is the travel, not how, but what I'm saying is a plug for car rental versus diminishing PT. Thats all.

OH by the way the last time I checked neither the Bus Nor the Metro could take you for a jeep ride along the Littoral coast between Rio and Sao Paulo.

Your Cheeky Pal
Chris

I have written about my eccentric British friend here before, but he would be one to agree with oneillchris. He would absolutely not ride on public transportation and would not walk any great distance across a city either (he had a Title). He would take his car to every city, Paris, London (where he lived), Rome, Naples and many other places where I wasn't with him.

One time a few of us were dining in an outdoor cafe in Rome and watched until we were halfway though our meal as he cruised by looking for parking. We laughed every pass he made, but he would wave and circle around again.

I miss him!

Oh SeaUrchin, although he was not titled, your friend sounds like the friend I had in SF. The only time he had been on public transportation, the Cable Cars, in something like 20 years or whatever was when some friends of mine were here from Italy. We almost got kicked off the cablecar as we did not know how much to pay, how to get a transfere etc. It was too funny.

I miss my dear late friend also. Some people stay in our hearts forever.

Chris,

I prefer public transportation in Europe because it's so flippin' EASY and accessible, as compared to the western U.S. where you have to have over 100,000 people living in a town to get a decent bus system.

Unlike you, however, I am flexible. I have rented a car -- on a Greek Island where there was no public transportation (to my knowledge)...otherwise I do prefer public transportation, be it subways, cabs or buses.

I don't think most of people posting to your question are "anti-car" as much as you are "anti-public transportation."

Hasn't anyone told you that just because you're rich enough, doesn't mean you have to buy it?

Jules

Car travel in europe can often be the best way to go - and we have done numerous road trips. Even for a mixture of cities and counryside it makes sense - but in the cities you put it in a garage for the duration. And we usually pickup the car in the first city we leave and drop it in the last city as we arrive.

But to have a car to drive around the center or any of the major cities is extremely inconvenient and expensive. You are constantly looking for garages to put it in - since street parking is next to impossible - and being caught in traffic that could be easily avoided by public transport - or feet.

And yes - I do have a car and live in Manhattan - but don;t drive it around Manhattan for the reasons cited. It's great for going to the country, for going to work in New Jersey, even for going to the outer boroughs, etc - but essentially useless in Manhattan - since you have to pay $30 plus everytime you want to park it.

I'm reading this posting and find it sometimes incredulous or even hostile. I posted earlier that we use a car to get around. We don't rent if we start in a major city, but rent for the rest of the trip. I grew up in NYC and as soon as I hit the driving age I stopped using using public transportation. I lived in boston for 17 years and could almost count the times we used public transportation. I recall being in the State St. station w/o air conditioning and the smaell of urine all around. It was a great teacher. I wish people were so adament about which is best, we all have our reasons for using whatever transportation we want.