>>>Lack of pride in your country is a modern illness - a variant of the anomie sociologists batter on about.<<<

I can say that love my country, and I absolutely adore my language, but that has nothing to do with pride. And I don´t think I am ill, saying "I am proud to be Xxxxx" just sounds so horribly pompous.

I'm old enough to remember when it was a staple of British comedy to send up British people who believe abroad to be absolutely bloody (even while travelling there) and expect everything to be the same as it is at home ("Tea like mother makes"). Nowadays, we'd like to think we're all much more worldly-wise, but such people do still exist, and I'm frankly avoiding places where the cheap-flight-stag-weekend brigades are going these days. So you needn't feel alone: and if we're honest, bunches of almost any nationality abroad can have their own irritating qualities.

What's intriguing is the anxiety the OP points to. Why should people who inherited New York, Chicago or Montreal or Toronto as part of their national heritage feel out of place in London or Paris? As few of us who live here had anything to do with making the history of the place as of you. Most of us live in buildings and parts of our cities and countries that are no older or more elegant or sophisticated than where you live. We're all heirs (and have plenty to be proud of and to cherish in that respect), but few of us are founders or creators (and therefore have no special claim to fame).

Well, I don't take the advice seriously, but the U.S. government does advise Americans overseas to hide their identity. They don't put it that way, of course, but if you read the advisories, that is clearly what they mean, and it is for the sake of safety. A shame.

When I go to a party I ask what people will be wearing. Not so I can hide my inner slob, but so I will fit in. I do this less than I used to do, though, because my inner slob is getting harder to hide.

When I travel somewhere new, I want to know how people will dress there. It might be fun to try to fit in, not because I am trying to hide that I am American, but because I am going somewhere I think I will enjoy. I will also try the food, listen to the music, bring back souvenirs to make my home feel a little bit more like the place I've been. Do I do this because I hate America? Of course not. Does the grass seem a little bit greener in places I go to vacation? Yup.

It is unlikely that I would buy a dirndl any more, as I did in Vienna when I was 21. And I probably wouldn't attempt to wear any more exotic dress that might make me feel self conscious. But if all the women in Paris are wearing scarves, it is fun to try that style on for size.

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and I can't imagine anyone else from England contemplating pretending to be something else.
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so people in england don't hang on to their heritage as some do in america?

british asians are commonly referred to as 'indians' or pakistanis no matter how long they were here. many also see themselves as part of a 'community'.

do you know any british people of italian heritage (even second/third generation)...i know many and they tend to be as clannish as their italian-american cousins. they wave the italian flag and commonly refer to the fact that they are 'italian', nevermind that they don't have an italian passport. would you say they are just 'pretending' to be italian.

i never met a british aussie who didn't constantly refer to the fact that he is australian. are they pretending to be australian?

same for south africans.

No-one from England pretends to be Irish or Dutch, in the way that some Americans are claimed to pass themselves off as Canadian. It's the two extremes we see here from many Americans that puzzles me: some wanting to be in denial, others feeling the urge to proclaim their affiliation at every excuse - and showing wholly unAmerican intolerance of anything smacking of less than 100% support for the regime in power.

The complexity of genuinely belonging to several different tribes is a different thing altogether.

sorry flanner. i misunderstood your post. i didn't realise that you were referring to the tiny minority of american travellers who pretend to be canadian.

since you referred to your own irish heritage i thought you were referring to americans' identifying with their nationality of family origin.

i agree that the dichotomy is strange. no matter if they are ashamed of it or proud of it, their americanism is a force that looms large for most americans. that's why 1/2 the posters here say that americans are loved in europe and the other half say that they will be hated. few americans believe that their americanism won't even be noted (which is typically the case).

'Every Australian colleague I've ever had has basked in his or her country's sports teams' endless succession of world championships ("C'mon Aussie").'

Well, I for one feel no reflected glory whatever in the successes of Australian sportspeople, Nobel Prizewinners or anyone else. I endorse Padraig's position -my nationality is a lucky accident of birth. There are aspects of my country I feel happy about, others that make me cringe.

Despite the "cultural cringe" that makes many Australians abroad loudly advertise their nationality, at home we tend to be not very comfortable with displays of patriotism, so I guess we're more like Europeans than Americans in that respect. Flying the national flag outside one's house, for instance, is rare, and to many people raises the suspicion that the resident is eccentric, and quite possibly a gun owner.

When I open my mouth on the Continent everyone thinks I'm American. When I open my mouth in America everyone thinks I'm Canadian or English. I'm Irish and proud of it. I will have to wear a green leprechaun suit.

>eccentric, and quite possibly a gun owner.
That translates into "crazy and stupid" or a Nazi (or both) over here. I can only advise everybody not to display the "being proud" attitude, if they want to be treated with respect. I doubt, there's a single person in this country (except Nazis) that thinks differently.

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I doubt, there's a single person in this country (except Nazis) that thinks differently.
>>>>>

due to fairly recent historical events, germans fear overenthusiastic nationalism far more than any other country in europe. they are not a representative measure of overall attitudes towards feelings of national pride.

For whatever reason, I simply think that America tends to be a more patriotic country. I'm not saying this is good or bad, just that it is. Do other countries, for example, have a song similar to the "I'm proud to be an American" song?

It is disappointing to realize that other people put you down for it, but Americans can be guilty of putting people from other countries (and their own) down for not being patriotic enough.

>>>due to fairly recent historical events, germans fear overenthusiastic nationalism far more than any other country in europe. <<<

I don´t know. I am not German but being "proud" really sounds like banging your chest with your fists KingKong style. Loving your country is not the same as being proud of it.

I'm absurdly proud to be English every two years - from the opening game to the quarter finals of football tournaments. Then I start insulting a certain swede.

I love my country and am proud of many of its accomplishments. I'm sure that everyone can point to something that their country has been involved in over the centuries that did not make them proud. Nonetheless, I would not want to live anywhere other than in my country. I do not go around proclaiming my nationality when I travel but then again I'm sure when people hear me speak they know where I'm from. I try to be kind and respectful and civil to everyone regardless of their nationality and hopefully they reciprocate.

<< so I just find the concept of wanting to blend in for the 3-1/2 days I am a guest, a tourist, a real bit odd>>
Well, Leslie, I guess a good test for the sincerity of your convictions would be for you to show up in Paris with flip-flops, flamingo pink shorts and a lime green top. May I suggest a Panama Jack Hawaiian shirt, shorts and white bucks for your husband. No one will mistake you for a local.
Of course I am being absurd, but we all try to blend in, even if just a little bit.
(If you dress like what I see in my part of Florida, you will wear ear muffs and a winter jacket if the temperature drops below 60. LOL)

>due to fairly recent historical events, germans fear overenthusiastic nationalism far more than any other country in europe. they are not a representative measure of overall attitudes towards feelings of national pride.<

Actually, Switzerland feels the same way. We rarely display public emotions of patriotism. Instead, we pay our taxes on time, vote three-four times a year, go on lots of walks and hikes, eat our cervelat and bratwurst on August 1, never think of air-conditioning in European hotels and watch 10 vor 10 in the evening. That's our way of being a patriotic Swiss!

But maybe we aren't representative of overall attitudes either.

I'm Canadian. Love my country, but would not proclaim it, sing about (sorry, but would feel a little strange singing God Bless Canada), don't have a flag at home, don't put one out on our national holiday, might get a little misty if one of our athletes outperforms at the Olympics...and I'm probably a typical canadian. Am I proud of Canada, sure, I think my country has made some contributions to the world stage...do I wear a Canadian flag when travelling, rarely, and if I do/did it would be because I think our country has a good reputation (perhaps somewhat affected now because of Afghanistan)and with a perception (note word) that I might be treated better for being identified as one.

Do I wear B.U.M. shorts and a Led Zeppelin t-shirt to Paris, never on your life. Do I scan the web to see what people are wearing there? Never. But I don't think it is wrong to dress "neatly" when I go to what is called the capital of fashion. Is it wrong to want to look good? I speak french, watch french movies,I read french history, I read french books...and someday plan on spending parts of my year there. So I don't see problem trying to immerse myself into that culture, at a deeper level than just going there. Part of that are the little things like clothes, "Madame/Monsieur" entering a shop, etc....

If I go to the Vatican, do I wear shorts? No. And why is that? Because that is part of the culture and shows respect.

I've seen some very rude, loud, disrespectful tourists in my time. That's not me. I've seen train wrecks/dog's breakfast' of tourists (from all countries) who look like crap (in my opinion). Maybe, just maybe, it would like OK in their own country, but I respect myself too much to want to dress like that. Part of who I am is how people see me, their first impression.

When I go to Florida, I wear shorts and t's...when I go to France, Africa,...

JoeTro--Thanks to country music, we Americans have a ton of absurdly patriotic songs that have no bearing on reality. "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free." As if the Norwegians and New Zealanders have the Gestapo breathing down their necks. Or how about "Only in America" about the son of a construction worker and the daughter of a banker who get married. I suppose that only happens in the US of A. That's the claim the song makes. And then there's that bit of musical genius "Have They Forgotten?" which wonders if we who are against the Iraqui Occupation no longer remember 9/11.

This is all symptomatic of a maudlin and insular brand of American patriotism that might explain why some of us prefer to be thought of as Swiss when we're abroad.

"We rarely display public emotions of patriotism."

Rarely, to be sure, but what about all those flag-waving, cowbell ringing Swiss we see at every World Cup ski race? Not quite so dour as the stereotype!