Why Hate Rick Steves Thread
 

Seems like Fodors editors have struck again.
The Steeves thread has been cut off from new postings. Nothing like supporting freedom of speech.

I would like to get my opinion in. [Hey, I may get barred yet.] For my first post retirement trip to Paris, I found his book helpful.

It gave me a quick overview of the major places to visit and provided me with some very valuable ideas quickly. For that trip, his succinct style was helpful.

On subsequent visits to Paris, when I was much more confident in my own knowledge of the city, I turned to more descriptive books, ones that provided greater depth and more detail.

Unfortunately, I think Rick tends at times to be too quick and too dirty. I really have never seen any justification for his ranking of Gimmelwald other than it was low cost, a feature which is often consistent with less quality. I have been to Gimmelwald more than once. The last time I went my main objective was to look seriously around to see if he knew something I didn't.

I also find some of his commentary about the great museums to lack the kind of knowledge that characterize the presentations in the Michelin Green guides.

On the other hand, Rick has found a market for his product. If success is measured in money, then there is no argument. Although he is as much huckster as he is traveler, his product sells.

His style appeals greatly to the people who think a successful tour of Europe is measured by the number of cities visited, the number of famous churches entered and/or viewed, and the total number of museums dashed through. To some extent that mentality pervades this forum, particularly when message titles like "10 Cities, 5 Countries in 4 days" seem to abound and purport to be descritive of a trip that is the "best ever."

I don't measure the success of my trips that way and, as a result, I don't measure the value of his books as highly as I did when I started visiting Europe again.

He is the Dr. Suess of travel books. Although good for beginners, and written in an easy to read style, I now find that Steeves' books don't have the content to sustain me when the objective is to acquire a more in-depth knowledge of the great vistas of Europe.

Freedom of speech? That doesn't mean permission to paint an essay on someone else's private property.

Best wishes,

Rex

Curious as to why thread was pulled - didn't seem offensive last time I looked

"Although good for beginners, and written in an easy to read style, I now find that Steeves' books don't have the content to sustain me when the objective is to acquire a more in-depth knowledge of the great vistas of Europe...."

And,IMO, you have hit the nail right on the head.

Dear bob_brown:
I value your opinion, but please please don't compare a travel entrepreneur like Rick Steves to Dr. Suess, who is/was a much beloved, highly sophisticated and absolutely brilliant creator of tales for chidlren and adults alike.
It's blasphemous! You should be doused with Ooblick and thrown into McElligot's (sp?) Pool!

Fortunately, or unfortunately, some of us "older" folks never heard of Dr. Seuss when we were growing up.

LOL Bellastar.

Bob, I see your point. I've said that before that RS is a <i>starting point</i>, not the end-all be-all.

Whether not he can rhyme, over a lime or on a dime, or with a mime, due to fodors editors, we do not have the time.

;)

Jules

Jules

My only experience of him is looking at the UK bit of his website after people had mentioned him here.
As a visitee rather than visitor, I was irritated by some elementary errors.
He also got up my nose a bit with his attitude to the inhabitants as quaint peasants. The &quot;funny foreigners&quot; thing is a bit outdated.

The konked out thread of which you speak is at http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34846740. It was so long that I didn't have time to read the whole thing nor respond. Later.

Oh, I don't know...could it have been that the 2nd reply in original thread started to doom previous thread?

I don't know if the crisis in the middle east or summer heat has shortened our fuses but that discussion got heated with several accusations and attacks on OP.

If you can't say something nice, why say anything? If you disagree or don't care for other peoples OPINIONS, just consider your vast superiority and let it go.

MvK

People get slammed all the time...and more than a few have been accused of being trolls.

But this is a lot like being in school again: Sadly, The First Amendment doesn't apply.

Jules

His tour suggestions (like the Dingle peninsula) are great, full of detail. Worth buying his books for those. It is when he has to make judgement calls (hotels, restaurants) that he and I have a difference of opinion.

Diane

Steves is a competitor to Fodors so I really don't blame them.

Good grief Dukey...you must be older than dirt!!!!!!! LOL I am over 60, and Dr. Suess was a big part of MY library. Green Eggs and Ham, the Cat in the Hat...oh yes..wonderful stuff!!!!

It is interesting how perceptions differ. Bob Brown believes that a mentality of rushing through the sites pervades this forum. I, on the other hand, believe that anyone posting the type of message title he cites: &quot;10 cities in five countries in four days&quot; will be slammed, sometimes mercilessly, by the vast majority of posters who prefer a more relaxed pace and more in-depth visits.

I have seen people complain here that everyone is a budget traveler, while other people complain that everybody here spends too much money.

On the other hand, there are those who think most of the posts are by insecure, fashion-obsessed snobs, while others think the majority of posters are boorish, insensitive folks who insist on doing things their own way even when all around them are laughing at them for it.

The people-watching right here is right up there with the cafes of Europe.

&quot;Nothing like supporting freedom of speech.&quot;

The First Amendment applies to the Government, not private Internet forums. What if I came to your house and painted &quot;Bob Brown is a #$%*&amp;&quot; -- would you erase it or let it remain to show your unflinching support of amendment numero uno?

Last year a friend who hadn't been in Paris for almost 40 years, emailed me that she had &quot;just found&quot; the most marvelous tour guide - Rick Steves. She was so excited about the book, that she bought a copy for a friend who was going was going at a different time.

I hated to burst her bubble, so I kept my mouth shut - that in itself could have been the eight wonder of the world. Since she was staying with a friend who has lived in Paris since 1968, I didn't think that Rick could/would do much damage - at least not on this trip.

I agree with Bob Brown, he too simplistic and sometimes irritating to a seasoned traveler.

We saw him at an appearance at the Book Passage in Northern California about 17 years ago. He didn't come across as the sweet guy with the runksack (sp). IMO he was slightly arrogant and steered the questions back to himself and of course the reason for his appearance - the sales of his books. I can only imagine what 17 years and $$$$$$$$$$ have done to his personality.

I do watch his PBS shows occasionally, not like I used to. His French pronunciation drives me up the wall. Is he dumbing it down for newbies, or after all of these years does he think that he is speaking French - or any other language?

Nina

I don't think that some people who have posted here about RS have actually read his books. Some of the characterizations are overly harsh.

His travel style doesn't appeal to the Fly family, but he's not as &quot;If this is Thursday it must be Belgium&quot; oriented as some people assert. It's very useful for novice travelers.

Also, he focuses on places he's personally visited, that's why his books are not as all inclusive as others, and why he will include, for example, a Gimmelwald.

We are here only because of the courtesy of Fodor's to host this forum.

<i>If you can't say something nice, why say anything? If you disagree or don't care for other peoples OPINIONS, just consider your vast superiority and let it go.</i>
LOL MarkVonKramer ... I hope you meant this to be funny?

Yes, suze and Nikki, well said. I sit and sip, don't post often on Europe. People watching is superb.

I like Rick Steves. His shows and books helped me a lot when I was a novice traveler 10 yrs ago. I still enjoy them, even though the bad puns get old.

I'll reserve comment on what I see as the more disturbing aspect of threads like that one...well, two words: &quot;junior high.&quot;

Rick Steves' city and town walking tours are the best we have found. He also gives great practical info on locations of tourist offices.

LOL Nikki, but thank goodness, <i>they</i> do let us out now and then, so we really can sit in a cafe in Europe and people watch.

MarkVK,

LOL ..I grew being taught (and later taught my own children) &quot;If you can't say something nice...&quot;

But I have to admit that I love Alice Roosevelt Longworth's version, from her days as celebrated Washington hostess:

&quot;If you can't say something nice, come sit by me.&quot;

Byrd

Keep in mind that getting the down side of places is just as important as hearing the good things. I for one want to hear both the bad and the good!

I have no strong feelings about Rick Steves' books, though we did find his museum tours handy in Rome. But I can see where a very sophisticated, experienced traveller would find them too 'junior'.

But Suze, I just wanted to say that Fodor's doesn't offer this site as a 'courtesy' or any kind of social service. It's a business. They sell advertising space and products through it and they draw potential buyers through these forums. That's fine with me -- that's how business runs and I certainly benefit by the information I get here. But you can be sure that the minute it stopped being profitable, this website would cease to exist.

Scarlett,

That statement was meant to try and lighten the mood around here but also convey the message that this is NOT required reading and responding!

I've seen political blogs with less venom.

RS is fine, Michelen is fine, they are all fine, just a matter of taste, opinion, and financial position. If some here could just answer the OP without accusing of working for RS PR or some other &quot;deal with the devil&quot; reason, we would have about 1/3 less to read and get some real learning done here.

MvK

hdm- It's a courtesy for me. Since I never read the ads, never buy Fodor's guidebooks, or have ever spent one cent as a result of posting here.

But hdm's point is still valid, suze. This forum exists because it's of value to Fodor's, not as a courtesy to us.

Don't get me wrong, I love Fodor's and am very appreciative that it's here. But we are also &quot;of use&quot; to Fodor's. Witness the fact that they used quotes from Fodorites in the new guide books.

OMG. Fodors could be stealing my intellectual property?!? I knew I should have read the fine print of that #*%&amp;# user agreement...

Jules

I always buy a Rick Steve's guide AND one other book for any new locale. Rick's for the practical and mundane - i.e., &quot;Turn left after exiting the train station to find the official taxis&quot;, and the other for more in-depth looks into sites and museums. I find this provides me with balanced information.

The so called experts who destest Rick Steves do so, in my opinion, because they are jealous and think they could do it better.

So, if you think you could do it better, go ahead and try. You don't like Rick Steves? Don't buy his books and shut up about it already.

For the record, I don't have any of his guidebooks but the industry trashing Steves on message boards probably sells quite a few books because people are curious.

Suze, they rent your eyeballs to advertisers. For money. $-)

kswl -- but Suze's eyes are shut the WHOLE TIME, and she's &quot;Thinking of England&quot;.

;)

More power to her! :D

Oh jules, it has been a long time since I heard that comment, LOL!!

Crefloors, you forgot to mention my favorite Dr. Seuss book of all time: &quot;Oh the Places You'll Go&quot;! :)

Does anybody watch Rudy Maxa?

Johanna

I do watch Rudy. In fact he's right after Rick on Saturday afternoons on our PBS station. I watch 'em all.

Well, yes, Crefloors, I am over 60, and I am sorry to tell you that I am not alone in being &quot;ignorant&quot; of Dr. Seuss.

As to the Fodors forum...hmmm I am not one of those who believes that Fodors &quot;hosts&quot; this forum out of the goodness of their hearts.

Let's see...there is

e-mail address harvesting and re-sale
using &quot;quotes&quot; in new guidebooks
getting all the free research material as to what is going on in various locations, etc.