Whose repsonsible?
 

I just received notification that I must pay a parking fine incurred in Gent. The owner of the Inn, a most amicable fellow, helped me get a parking receipt. We went to the machine together and he walked me through it. Unfortunately he did it wrong and now I have a 25 Euro fine. He tried to squelch the fine but could not.

Who is responsible for the fine?

Er, Gent is Belgium, and if it was your car you are responsible I'd say.

Sorry, Het, you are absolutely right about the location, my mistake.

The fine amount could be one heck of a lot more in my experience. It was your car and I am sorry that "he did it wrong." Sounds as if he has done everything possible to get the thing "squelched" so I think it's time you paid up and moved on.

I just received the notification about 1/2 hour ago and now I have to pay for a wire transfer as well.

What a silly question - who else besides you can be responsible for a fine you incurred - you expecting the hotel guy to pay for your mistake?

Who is responsible for the fine?>

Who would you think is responsible if not you?

Obviously the instructions were confusing for someone who spoke the language, let alone for someone who did not.

Truthfully, if someone made a mistake on the reliance of my information, I would feel responsible.

Your car - your fine.

My parking ticket experience in San Quirico...

"As the others packed, relaxed a little more and downed one last coffee, I walked to where I had parked the rental car so I could drive back to the hotel and help load us up.

As I approached the car, I wondered, “What’s that on the window (even though I instinctively knew what it was)?" Yep, it was a parking ticket for parking in a “residential only” parking area. In their one minor lapse, the people at the hotel said it was fine for us to park in that area, but obviously the ticket stated otherwise.

The ticket was 35 euros, but by the time I got back to the hotel I decided it wasn’t enough to make a stink about, especially since we loved our time here. It turned out the German guests (who also had a parking ticket) were making stink enough for two. The husband was getting flustered and talking in rather high decibels, and the girl at the desk called a couple of places to see what she could do to help. I just put my ticket next to theirs on the desk and waited for the eventual outcome.

I had made up my mind while listening to her on the phone that if we had to pay, then we’ll pay. Remember, “Attitude is everything!”

Obviously our German friends had a different mindset, because when she got off the phone and softly said, “You both have to pay the ticket,” he picked up the ticket and threw it back on the desk. As his face reddened, he replied (well, kind of yelled) in no uncertain terms he wasn’t paying. He then stormed off (he had another night to stay, so I don’t know how it was resolved, but needless to say his day was pretty much spoiled ... not by the ticket, but how it had affected him).

The girl at the desk said she would take it over to the police station and get it paid, and then she apologized again. “No problem,” we said, and packed the car..."

My advice...pay the fine. It's not worth the hassle.

((H))

Well since you say "he tried to get it squelched" I assume he is aware of the fine. Sure it would be NICE if he offered to pay but since he has not offered, I think at this point you'll have to suck it up and pay it.

I can use my bank to transfer the funds.

I like to try think about what The Ethicist (the column in the NYT Sunday Magazine) would say. I think he would say that the owner of the Inn's good intentions absolve him of responsibility. I think he would add that in trying to help you he did not assume responsibility for the parking of the car, only for assisting you to the best of his ability; that the best of his ability wasn't good enough is not relevant. And, lastly, punishing him for his good deed would be bad karma, would it not? If we all did that, no one would ever help anyone in this world.

Pay the fine. As a percentage of the cost of your trip, surely it's insignificant.

I can use my bank to transfer the funds.>

Maybe to avoid the wire charges contact the hotel owner and ask him to pay it if he can charge your credit card with no additional fees.

But wow - someone tries to help out out of the goodness of their heart and then you want him to pay for any mistake - now that is an Ugly American IMO.

You, of course, are responsible. But, look the ticket over and perhaps you can pay it online. This happened to us in Spain. We went to all the trouble of getting a check in euros, sent it off only to have it returned to us, and then had to go online and pay with a credit card !! Look it over and good luck !

I no longer have the ticket, but have the instructions as how to send the money.

Palenq

I have considered contacting him to avoid extra payment which I will probably do first.

I always expect you to have the nastiest interpretation and comments. As noted, I said the fellow from the Inn was a genuinely nice fellow. Nor did I rant and whine about his behavior. Nor have I asked him to pay for this or threatened him with some false review. SO much for ugly American assertion.

You sir, are nothing but the fundamentalist of these boards. If there is harsh way to look at something and say it, that will be your predictable response.

Well, I think you are legally responsible, of course. Is he morally responsible? I see your point, if a hotel in its capacity tells a guest something as to how things work in that city, I would think they might feel some responsibility for doing it correctly. I think some very special or rare hotels might want to pay it if it were their fault for the mistake. But I wouldn't count on it, of course.

Tell you what you can do, if you want to pursue this (pay it, of course), you can write him (or email him if that is your correspondence method) with a copy of the fine and say you are going to pay it. You can easily copy and make a PDF file with your email of the ticket. Then you can just say you unfortunately got this ticket due to some mistaken instructions about ....whatever, and you were sure he'd want to know, if only to make sure other guests do not have this same occurrence.

Then see what he does, but hotels are not usually going to send you cash for tickets, anyway, and if you've checked out, they can't lower your bill at this point. He might offer you a discount or free stay, but if you aren't going back, that won't do you any good except it might make you feel better.

Did you request his help, or did he notice you parking and come out unsolicited to tell you to do it his way?

You, sir, need to suck it up and pay the d---d bill, one way or the other.
You spray epithets about others around, but you, sir, are an equal abuser. IMO

<But wow - someone tries to help out out of the goodness of their heart and then you want him to pay for any mistake - now that is an Ugly American IMO.>
But this was spot on. Sorry, but You're Done Here, indeed. You haven't a leg to stand on.

You don't need us. Be a mensch.

To tell you the truth, I think the e-mail came from the Inn owner. There is no way the Town of Gent would have my e-mail address until they went directly to Hertz. The Inn owner has the ticket in possession.

What is odd, I wrote in measured words until Planeq usually rudeness. But people usually read what they want not what is written.

I do think you're responsible, but I like Christina's idea, which seems fair and might net you some recompense.

Pal's not usually rude, just harmlessly clueless and abnormally fixated on certain issues like foie gras and bullfights and British royalty and promoting train sites. It's a medical marijuana thing and can easily be ignored.

Trying to personalize this, as a home owner/sometime rental person in France (not Belgium, which might make a difference), if I had told a tenant I would try to help him/her take care of a parking or other ticket, I would have. It would involve a trip to the préfecture, and I probably would have had an answer in 5 minutes as to whether I could pay the fine on behalf of the offender, or whether the offender needed to deal with it, or whether it was up to the car rental agency to pursue retribution. And I would have communicated that precise information to my renter.

How come the Inn owner has the ticket? Do you not have one? Is it because his address was registered for the car rental? Why would that be? That's not normal, IME.

Trying to personalize this, as a home owner/sometime rental person in France (not Belgium, which might make a difference), if I had told a tenant I would try to help him/her take care of a parking or other ticket>

and if you actually made the parking machine work - OK in your burg there is none probably - and you messed up and the client got a ticket would you pay for it?

That is a tough question - I may well have if I were the owner of the place and it was my fault - but am I morally responsible to do so for coming to someone's aid in the first place - a tough question for sure - for the owner - not IMO for the person who got the ticket who should just bite the bullet and pay the rather miniscule fine, keeping in mind the hotel owner was just going out of his way to be nice.

Update from the diseased feral ugly American

I wrote the Inn owner an e-mail asking if he would pay the fine directly and then charge my credit card. My bank wanted $35 fee for a 25 Euro wire transfer.

The owner of the Snooz Inn in Gent wrote back and said he was ashamed of the conduct of the Town of Gent, because we made every effort to get to get a parking receipt correctly. Additionally he appealed to Gent to squelch the ticket. That is the reason he has the ticket in his possession.

I told him among other things, there was no need to be ashamed of the actions of others particularly a bureaucracy.

The owner insisted in paying the fine which I declined and asked that he pay the fine directly and charge me so I do not have pay the usurious transfer fee.

I wait upon his response.

I omitted certain facts because I did not want to appear self-serving and did not accuse the owner of anything but not understanding the parking machine's instructions. Also as noted above I eschewed emotional language in my description of the situation. Even before I received a request for the fine I recommended Snooz Inn (maybe even on these boards, I do not recall) to others and gave him 9.6 on Booking.com.

But SOME of you are judgmental twits, but you knew that already.

Is "usurious" a measured word?

I'm pretty sure "twit" isn't, but then I am one, for failing to have sympathy with the OP for taking a $35 fine (or 25 Euros), and an additional $35 transfer fee, this seriously; and for finding the original question, which is whether a well-meaning innkeeper should pay instead of the OP, quite entitled.

Newbe

For the benefit of your narrative, I suggest you read things out of order,out of context and ignore all the detail. And if the twit fits.....

And if you do not think $35 fee for a 25 Euro wire transfer is usurious than you you must either work on K Street, for a bank or Goldman.

That seems like a good solution, actually, to have him pay it directly so you don't have to pay the wire transfer fee.

My bank charges $40 for any wire transfer, I asked recently as I wanted to open a CD account at another bank. I even have a "platinum" account or whatever they call it due to the amount of money I have in total at their bank. I thought they might waive it for such customers, but they said they charge everyone $40. I think I could get a cashier's check free, but not a wire. I do think that is usurious as I can't imagine it really costs anything, it's just done by computer isn't it? Maybe there is a little labor if you have to talk to someone to set it up, but still.

And if you do not think $35 fee for a 25 Euro wire transfer is usurious than you you must either work on K Street, for a bank or Goldman.>

Or likely not work at all and have inherited wealth- I understand that $35 is probably a flat fee for any amount up to a certain point but in any case it is usurious IMO.

Most people would just ignore the ticket unless going back to Belgium again and risk getting stopped by the cops for something so I applaud IMD for at least not shrinking her/his duty to pay the ticket - the local authorities however should make it easy for the person like IMD to pay by credit card - they certainly could if they wanted but probably don't want to incur the 2-3% fee they would then have to pay.

I don't know why some of you are jumping all over the OP. He asked a legitimate question (and last I saw, that is what this travel board is for). He never slammed the Inn owner (unless "most amicable fellow" is suddenly a negative connotation of someone).

In our sort of similar situation in San Quirico, we had to make a really quick call on whether to dispute the ticket with our hotel or just pay and go on our way (which is what we eventually did).

As a long time Fodorite, IMD can fight his own battles, but some of the responses to his post are why more than a few people on the board are getting fed up and leave. Maybe before you post messages calling people names, you should count to ten.

((H))

As a long time Fodorite,>

August 2013 now is a long-time Fodorite? Not that it makes any difference - the problem to me with the OP statement was that it implied the hotel owner should be responsible - that's how I read it and I think it was not meant to be read like that. But maitaitom makes a salient point.

"As a long time Fodorite"

PQ, I guess as "a regular poster" would have been better terminology, but it is so unusual for me to ever have a salient point that I got caught up in the moment. (:

((H))

I agree, Pal, not to mention that he is now calling me a twit. I mean, I don't care, but this style of posting -- omit detail, then mete it out in dribs and drabs and call names when you are disagreed with--could be called trolling. That is my answer for why I am jumping on him now; I didn't initially.

<And if you do not think $35 fee for a 25 Euro wire transfer is usurious than you you must either work on K Street, for a bank or Goldman.>

Yes, I am independently wealthy. You must be of meager means. And yet--you traveled to Europe. That cost more than $70, I reckon. What percentage of the cost of your trip does $70 represent, I wonder? More than 50%? Poor you indeed.

Thanks Tom
____

The Inn owner as an entrepreneur, nice fellow, and life-long resident of Gent wants his city to be welcoming to tourists and responsive to residents. This is natural.

I have gotten into more trouble renting cars in Europe than poker hands in Vegas. There was the time I almost went off the cliff in the Dolomites. The time I took off someone side view mirror at the airport in Palermo. The time 80 pounds of octupi broke out of its bags and stuck up the trunk in Spain. The time the car rental agent forgot to meet me at the airport at Kayseri, Turkey and I just left it without a receipt with the airport manager. Or the time in Cesme, Turkey when I left the car at a hotel from The Shining. The time I put a dent in the car but it was in the place as a previous driver so it was never detected. The time I could see the hotel in Sevilla but could not get there, so my wife got into a cab and I followed him.

I think I will take the train whenever possible in the future.

I think I will take the train whenever possible in the future.>

Now you're talking sense!

Glad it all worked out OP, and just my two cents, never thought you were expecting the innkeeper to pay, your question was civil enough. Some of the responses were just plain rude and snarky.

Our rental car was scraped in a parking lot in Montepulciano last month. Not our fault, a scrape and run, but we rented it, our responsibility. Yesterday we got the bill from Hertz Italia. DH figures it was still a lot less than the years of NOT paying for extra coverage and we are still ahead of the game. So of course we are just going to pay for it. The extra costs of traveling over the years.

Nice use of "usurious"

I will say IMD is one of the finest scribes in the history of Fodor's with such a commanding command of the language - sincerely said and meant - a way with words that brings them to life!

Thanks Social, Chicago, and Palenq

You were travelling around much too fast. It was probably a speeding ticket. Six days in Paris and 8 days in London would have been ideal.

Do you remember the VERY old Woody Allen joke. His ex-wife Louise Lasser received a ticket and Woody said, "It couldn't have been a moving violation."