Which mode of transport to select?
 

All, This is the first time I am taking my family to Europe and plan to visit in May 2013. The dates are decided primarily based on school holidays and my job schedule.

I want to plan the month long vacation by myself instead of going through a tour operator and naturally all sorts of questions are cropping up. I will create separate threads for each one and link back to this one for completeness.

The question I have here is the mode of transport while travelling in Europe. I plan to spend a few days in Paris and a few in London read 4-5 ea. But the rest of the itinerary will be a whirlwind spending atmost a day or two in each city. I plan to additionally stay 3 days or more (if possible) in Rome. In addition I would like to go through Switzerland, part of Germany, Italy, Spain, Prague (?? "big if" but put due to the wishes of my wife :) )

I will be travelling with my wife (both of us in our late 30's), my daughter of 9 yrs and my mother of 60+ yrs. What would be your opinion in travelling? Should we take trains, or buses, car or my personal fave a RV?

The budget is not much of a constraint but between spending 500Euros and saving 1 hr and spending 200Euros we would pick the 200Euros definitely! :) A 100Euros here and there would be okay.

Would love your responses and apologies if I haven't put all the background!

Thanks,
Alok

I think we could do with understanding the schedule a bit better as say Italy is a big place, where do you want to go (city)?

You don't need a car in Paris or London and either take the train of fly in between (which also avoids having a right hand side drive car in a left hand side country).

If you literally mean "a day or two in each city", why would you need a car? In most cases, it'll just be an expensive liability: stuck all day, running up parking charges while you're sightseeing and doubtless attracting fines if you go through a "no traffic" sign.

Few visitors can cope with driving in London, Paris or Rome: no-one can drive in Venice (or, legally, in central Florence for most people). But trains generally go only to where people live.

You should assume you're gong to be using trains and/or planes a lot, and that any car you hire needs to be returned in the country you hired it in. Then plan where you really want to go to, using cars to fill gaps in.

Please do not start separate threads for each thought/question you have. That is very confusing to the responders who may see only 1 or 2 of the threads and not be able to understand your itinerary. It will also give you fractured advice. People will start asking all sort of questions you've already explained on another thread and you'll have to repeat information.

Since you're going to cities I would take trains between locations. You will be at a handicap with a car in cities and you will not be able to get an RV through the streets. In some places you'll only have a day or two. Why spend your precious time trying to navigate an unfamiliar city and looking for parking.

Look at how far you need to drive. London to Rome. Unless everyone is fond of looking at highways and spending lots of time in a car I would not do this. With a tight schedule you won't have time to drive on secondary roads. On a train you can buy some lunch/snack foods in the station and have a relaxed time. You can even indulge in wine/beer any time since you won't be driving!

Should we take trains, or buses, car or my personal fave a RV?>

An RV trip can be great if not going to mainly large cities - great for driving thru the countryside - there are so so many campsites everywhere - actually even in large cities like London and Paris and Rome - places where I have camped many times - London and Paris are yes right in the city.

Leave the RV in the campsite and take public transport around the big cities and then drive to another base perhaps stopping in a smaller town en route to diversify your experience.

Kids you daughter's age will love camps as my son did when he was that age - camps are full of families and kids playing and playgrounds, swimming pools, etc.

Will the 60+ year old love the camp grounds?

You want to drive an RV and you have children! Leave nothing but footprints and take nothing but photos.

Why wouldn't a 60 year old love camp grounds - they are full of 60plussers in campers!

Do you need to rent the RV? If so you would need to make a round trip to get it back to the rental station. Since most of your time will be in continental Europe you would be better off hiring the RV there rather than in the UK. Fuel is expensive in Europe and needs to be budgetted for, as do campsites - which are not that cheap! Every city has a campsite close by, and you can use public transport to get to the centre.

If you only want to visit cities then train or cheap airlines is the way to go. You need to look at a map and work out roughly where you want to go and a logical order in which to do them. Then look online to see how long it takes to fly, or go by train, between your chosen places. Work out whether you can do all the places you want to given the travelling time. If you find you will only have one night in a place you need to rethink your plans and cut places out to give you more time to enjoy fewer places.

Thanks everyone for the quick responses! That was fast :)

I was thinking of getting an RV and take the train in and around Switzerland for the experience. I was reading that the RV rental prices were lowest in Germany so was planning to start my journey from Frankfurt / Berlin / Munich.

My cities / POI: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...2765,86.572266

I am sure we will not be able to hit all those points but were added based off everyone's suggestions on their Places to Visit.

Will the 60+ year old love the camp grounds?>

exactly what hetismij says - you obviously have never been in European campgrounds that are full of seniors as well as young families.

<< you obviously have never been in European campgrounds that are full of seniors >>

That's a fact and I don't plan on ever camping again.

I posed the question because Pal only reference the child loving the camp ground. I thought you had purposefully not included the senior in your statement.

If you're thinking about an RV you would likely find this site interesting - start at the beginning.

http://www.soultravelers3.com/

and yes RV travel is very very popular in Europe, where in many countries they are called "camping cars" so if googling try that term for lists of dealers. Italians especially invade France in summer in their camping cars. The nice thing about European camps - folks from all over Europe - I spent years camping in Europe and lovely every campground I stayed in - most have good communal facilities like showers, restrooms to supplement that in the RV, laundries, food stores and most important to me cafes and restaurants and bars where you can easily socialize with Europeans - camps are the place to go if you do not want to meet other Americans!

I posed the question because Pal only reference the child loving the camp ground. I thought you had purposefully not included the senior in your statement.>

I understand - but I think the needs of kids are primo in planning trips and they often get left out of the interest mix and are made to traipse thru one boring museums and one boring church after another - with my young son when I camped with him we did that during the day with the carrot that yes there will be a swimming pool at the end of the day to splash around in and other games and play equipment for kids - something not found in many hotels.

And adrienne makes a cogent point - some folks - well many Americans at least that I know will simply HATE campgrounds - be it in Yosemite or in the heart of London or Paris. That I can appreciate but being old, like me, is not a drawback given that the RV has reasonably comfy beds, etc.

alok - I just looked at your google map and you have mostly cities (or congested towns) on your list. Cities don't mix with campgrounds and RVs. There are lots of very nice and interesting places in Europe that are not cities. Perhaps a new itinerary would be the thing.

As an example, I recently took a driving trip through the southern Czech Republic and loved it. Beautiful scenery, lovely towns, lots of history and helpful people. Perhaps something like this rather than Prague. You'll get the flavor of the country plus your camping experience.

Appreciate the insight on the RV and campgrounds.


Adrienne - I unfortunately may not be able to change the cities. Given our budget we may not be coming for another trip for another 10-15+ years and hence want to visit these ones now.

To get around the problem of major cities and traffic I was hence thinking of camping outside them and taking a public transport into city. Alternatively, we could rent a RV only in Italy for a week or so and then travel to Germany and Switzerland by train before moving to Paris and London.

One option I have is to fly into London, move to Paris and then do Switzerland, Germany and Italy; flying out of Rome else do the other way round with flying into Frankfurt taking train trips to Cologne, Amsterdam from there and coming back to Switzerland. From Geneva or so, move into Italy and take a RV to Florence, Rome, Naples and fly to Paris and then to London. Thoughts?

If you intend driving long distances, have you noticed the price of fuel in Europe? You will use a lot....

And if you are just doing cities, what is the point of staying miles outside in a campsite? Many campsites don't have good public transport connection and you will spend a lot of time going back and forth and will probably spend more than if you choose a B&B or hostel to stay in.

<spend more than if you choose a B&B or hostel to stay in.>

Are there hostels for families? I always assumed they would be for the backpackers and 20's crowd.

The reason to rent an RV was my personal wish of driving one. We don't get any opportunity in India :)

>>>move into Italy and take a RV to Florence, Rome, Naples <<<

Many campgrounds in Italy have bungalows you can rent. There are three outside of Florence on public transport.

>>>The reason to rent an RV was my personal wish of driving one.<<<

Last thing I would want to do in Italy where many streets are too narrow for compact cars.

I think once you look at the expense of renting the camper, gas, tolls, parking, campground fees and public transport to and from campgrounds to sightsee, it's not all that economical.

No, hostels are for everyone. How big is your family? You may find it works better to move less often and rent an apartment.

Why the interest in hostels? Are you on a budget?

I assumed that you had lots of money to spend on this trip since you were planning renting an RV which would be big money (to me) plus large fuel costs to run the thing all over Europe.

Hostels have indeed changed from decades ago. There are many with private rooms or 2 bed rooms or family rooms. There is a rating system and advanced booking. It's a whole new world from the backpacker era.

My concept of hostels was wrong then. My aversion to hostels was due to my thinking that they were not family friendly. With my daughter and mother I want a peaceful & family centric environment. If hostels provide that then I will definitely look into that option.

if I decide not to rent an RV then what options do I have to travel between the cities. For ex: Getting around in Italy from say Florence to Pisa to Rome to Naples etc. Would you recommend the public transport?

Some hostels are peaceful, some are not. You need to read the reviews.

The train system in Italy is good - perhaps not as extensive as in India, but the fast trains will be more comfortable. For all the info you need on trains spend some time reading this site: seat61.com

Thanks again for that site. I did start reading up on it as well as quite a few other sites.

My only worry traveling in a public vehicle is having to lug around all the baggage (5-6 check-in bags). I could put the heavy bags in a locker and travel light but I would always have to backtrack every few days instead of making a linear progress. So for ex: In Italy, with Rome as my base, would travel to Florence then Milan, come back to Rome and then go ahead to Naples, come back to Rome and then move to another country.

To tell the truth: I rather would prefer the Europe trains than the ones in India. They might be more in number and frequency but don't think they can beat the comfort that the European trains provide. In addition, the (non-)cleanliness is something that always puts me off.

<< Getting around in Italy from say Florence to Pisa to Rome to Naples >>

If I were only going to these cities I would take trains between locations. The train stations are in the center of the cities and very convenient. There are many trains per day to these locations.

Pisa is only an hour from Florence so I would stay in Florence and do Pisa as a day trip.

Depending on what you plan to do in Naples it could also be a day trip from Rome - about 90 minutes each way on the train.

If there are some small towns you would like to visit you can take day trips from the main cities via trains or buses.

How many people? Why on earth do you need that much luggage? I travel for months at a time with one carry-on size backpack or roller bag, and one day pack.

4 people only need 4 bags (21" size each) plus small carry on bags. Everyone should be able to handle their own luggage. Even the 9 year old can roll her own luggage (with some help on cobbles).

It's only a month and so what if you wear the same clothes over and over. If the women object they can pack some light scarves or some jewelry to make them feel as if they are wearing something different.

Europe has laundrettes and washing soap! :)

BTW - I'm a woman of a certain age and no longer terribly strong and I can get my suitcase on the train and lift it above my head to put on the overhead racks.

There's a technique for loading luggage onto a train.

Get grandma and your daughter on the train first and tell them to find your seats (most trains require reserved seats so you'll know ahead of time where you'll be sitting).

One person boards the train, the second person hands to bags up while the person on the train pulls them up. Then throw them in the corner of the vestibule and load the next bag. Of course you need to be quick but your wife and you should be able to do this easily since you're young.

Thanks for the bag loading tip. The number of bags are based on all the things we will be carrying back as gifts for the many relatives. If only it was as simple as taking chocolates for everyone :)

I think I am getting an idea of how to travel and the itinerary. I will spend the next couple of days refining it and then post it here for comments. Thanks again!

Out of curiosity: How much would I be looking to spend for a month long vacation for a family of 5? I trying to get a rough figure based on your experiences excluding air ticket flying into and out of Europe.

The hotels would be 3/4 star and eating would be normal.

Family of 5? Where did the 5th person come from?

There is no average amount of money. Hotel rates vary according to individual country plus vary between cities and small towns.

Eating normal could mean anything. I don't think that you can compare normal eating for grandma to normal eating for a 40 year old male. You could spend E10 per person on a dinner or E40 per person on dinner. Your budget also depends on how much you drink and what you drink; how many times you stop for an ice cream. Sodas for the 9 year old will cost more than beer or wine.

I'm confused about the lodging. You were asking about hostels and now you want to stay in 3/4 star hotels. They're at opposite ends of the price spectrum.

I can tell you what I spent for dinner (for myself) in Prague 2 years ago - between 10USD and 26USD (these prices include 1 to 2 glasses of wine). It all depends on where and what you eat but this is a guideline for you.

I paid $50 for a single room in a pension in Prague. You can look up pricing on hotel web sites and many restaurants also have web sites with pricing.

Last time in Paris I spent between $35 and $72 per day.

In addition to food and lodging you have transportation and sightseeing.

This is where a guidebook is handy. Guide books give you pricing information and rate hotels and restaurants.

If gifts (do you absolutely have to?) would require extra luggage either:

1. Mail them (that will also avoid excess baggage fees)
2. Buy them at your last stop
3. And buy small, light things - scarfs, jewelry - the prices in India will generally be (much) better

Actually the family size is 5. It was a typo earlier. My bad :(

I did think about hostels earlier but somehow can't wrap my mind around it (pre-conceptions but still nervous on booking one). Decided to stay in a hotel or apartments if available for a couple of days.

Given a choice I would buy gifts right here in some mall in India :) but that brought from Europe tag (even if a few cents) seems to generate a goodwill for the next few years :)

Basic rules for keeping to a budget (these are the same rules that apply to traveling to large cities world wide).

- Don't eat near main squares and main tourist attractions. Walk a couple of blocks away for more reasonably priced meals.

- Many countries offer substantial breakfasts (Germany, Czech Republic) - eat hearty at breakfast and have a small snack lunch.

- Limit your stops for drinks and snacks. Carry water bottles/snacks with you in a day pack (particularly for the child). Refill your water bottles from the tap - you'll save money and be respectful of the environment.

- Apartments are the way to go, especially with 5 people. Also look for small hotels and pensions which are cheaper. In Prague I stayed outside the center for a cheaper rate and took the tram into town (15 minute ride). This worked well for me but perhaps not for 5 people traveling together with different needs to sit down, rest, nap during the day and the need for the hotel/apartment to be accessible.

- Some countries have regional train passes that are good for families. There is one such pass in Bavaria where you pay a set rate (approx. E30) and 5 people can travel with one ticket during off peak times.

If you have the Let's Go guide book series or perhaps Lonely Planet then get copies and read the introductory sections for travel tips.

Dear All, Thank you for your suggestions and insights. I wanted to circle back and update on what my final trip looks like:
Duration: 30 days.
4 days London -> 4 days Paris -> 10 days RV into Amsterdam, Black Forest, Switzerland -> 12 days Italy (Venice, Florence, Rome and Amalfi)

Considering air tickets, hotels, food, sightseeing, gifts etc I expect to pay around 15-16K Euros for the whole trip netting to about 100-125 Euros per person per day.

One question I had though: Are Euros acceptable in Switzerland or do they use a conversion rate for their local currency?

An RV from France and drop off in Italy. Have you looked into the drop off fees?
Some places will accept euros but if they do they use their own exchange rate. Go to an ATM and pull out some Francs.

Alok, you have to use the currency of the country, they might be nice and help you out but you will pay a poor exchange rate and it is kinda rude. London is sterling you ken?

@alok_europe_dream RV in a circle through Europe back to where you started: if you want to do cities, check out towns that are an hour or so outside those cities but with good public transport to them. That way you can commute to your city sight seeing and be back in the evening in your RV. For instance, Amsterdam has a great RV space that's 30 minutes outside of the city, Venice has a great campsite, also for RV's on Burano and you get to "commute" to Venice by boat - bus. And so on. If you love driving an RV through Europe, just go for it. Indeed, you'll never have this opportunity again. Lots of Europeans do the same in their summer holiday. And may can be wonderful, not too busy, spring weather in southern Europe, you'll love Switzerland and the Black Forest.

In Switzerland change to Francs.

There is no RV park on Burano. I repeat, there is no RV park on Burano. There are no motor vehicles on Burano.

There are campsites near Venice but they are on the mainland. To me, not staying IN Venice means you miss much of the magic.