You are derailing the thread guys. This is not a Train vs Plane debate.

But anyway, you're welcome.

Once you’ve posted, it’s out of your hands! If it turns into a train vs plane discussion, so be it.

Exactly. Please stay home then as well and check your privilege and your impact as a global traveler pleasure

But there is a need to take personal responsibility for the measure in which you'll be contributing to a likely 2nd wave of infections and deaths.

One of their measures (Senegal's was) will probably be to prevent Americans and Europeans, who come from hotspots, entering the country.

But you'll travel to international airports presumably. So there's your answer.
I suggest people stop elective global air travel yes. For a number of reasons.

"Please stay home then as well and check your privilege and your impact as a global traveler pleasure"

Climate change affects far more people than this virus and for long term, unlike the virus, and it has a much worse impact than the virus.

We should stop all modes of travelling which is not sustainable. Stop flying, sell your car(we know the electric cars are not a solution), stop taking cruises. You can still travel by walking, biking, canoeing/kayaking, sailing, dog sledding, horse/camel etc. riding,ski touring and so on. Any maybe, just maybe travelling by train.

For people still just wondering about visiting this year (setting aside the various and important ecological considerations), in a television interview yesterday, President Macron said "we'll probably just be vacationing among Europeans this year."

Reading these comments, it's quite apparant that many of you don't live in areas dependent on tourism. Lucky you.

I hope Portugal and Spain does not feel that way.

Last evening I received an email from Air France cancelling my mid-June IAD-CDG flight. Anticipated, of course, though I was surprised they cancelled almost 6 weeks in advance...

"Under the best-case scenario, Greece will be open for business and welcoming tourists in July, provided that the EU has agreed on health protocols for travel, the country’s prime minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, said on Monday.Speaking to CNN’s Nic Robertson in Athens, on the occasion of Greece easing its Covid-19 restrictions, the Greek PM said that it is going to be a very “different summer” this year.

Referring to the country’s tourism sector, PM Mitsotakis said tourists are not coming to Greece at the moment – “during the first stage” – and that the real question is if the country will we be able to have tourists come later in the summer.

The PM said it is possible only if specific (health) protocols are agreed “hopefully at a European level”, which may see travelers getting tested before they fly to Greece and then carefully monitored upon arrival with an antibody or a PCR test.

“Τhe tourism experience this summer will be slightly different from what you’ve had in previous years, with more social distancing, maybe no bars and no tight crowds but they (tourists) will still get a fantastic experience in Greece provided the global epidemic is on a downward path,” the PM said, adding that the best-case scenario sees Greece “open for business” as of July 1.

“We’re working and preparing towards that but of course it involves airlines – because most people fly into Greece – and very strict but also enforceable protocols,” he said.

When asked by Robertson to give a percentage on how big the economic loss may be, PM Mitsotakis referred to a contraction of 10 percent.

“…It is going to be much worse if we don’t open up at all for the summer… It is going to be a very different summer but we hope that the worse is behind us,” he said.

Referring to how well Greece managed to contain the coronavirus from spreading in the country, PM Mitsotakis that what he keep as a legacy of the crisis is the sense of collective success.

“I dare to use the word pride. Greeks haven’t been proud in a long, long time,” he said.

The coronavirus has so far infected 2,632 people in Greece and the death toll has reached 146, still among the lowest among EU member-states"

https://news.gtp.gr/2020/05/05/pm-mi...greek-tourism/
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...tl-ldn-vpx.cnn

"The PM said it is possible only if specific (health) protocols are agreed “hopefully at a European level”, which may see travelers getting tested before they fly to Greece and then carefully monitored upon arrival with an antibody or a PCR test."

I doubt getting a test so I can go on holiday will feature high on the list of priorities for hospitals and GP's. And I assume a month-old test will not do, so I'll have to find a test within 48 hours of flying, and get the results in time, and then cancel my flights and hotel if the test is positive.

I'm sure that allowing only European tourists this summer will have an impact, but the majority of tourists in Europe are actually European. For France, for example, out of 90 million visitors annually, 70 million are European.
And with Europeans unable to travel outside the continent, that number may rise. It will all depend on what is open, and what restrictions are in place.

Just as the example for Paris, only 6% of the visitors are American, so I am always a bit taken aback at how important they claim to be for the French economy. In terms of spending, the most important tourists in France are Chinese.

<<Reading these comments, it's quite apparant that many of you don't live in areas dependent on tourism. Lucky you.>>

Quite the opposite, as least as regards most of the European residents who post here. I live in an area that is very heavily dependent on tourism, though not so much from Americans, and we are under strict rules now regarding staying at home, which the vast majority of people seem to be complying with. And we will be under strict rules until at least the end of July. . And I haven't heard anyone complaining even though it's a difficult time for many people. Never mind storming the local legislatures with flags and firearms. Of course, we're socialists, and that helps in times like this.

OK, so you can travel, at least a little bit, at some time in the future if this and if that and if another thing. When you get there, will the shops be open? Will restaurants be running as usual? Will there be nightlife? Museums? Theaters? Sports? If there is another virus case spike, will you discover that you have to leave immediately or be locked down? Will you be subject to a newly ordered quarantine when you get home? How much uncertainty could you tolerate?

I agree completely, IMO we should stay close to home and keep international travel for 2021 or later. We were in Andalucia early March when Covid-19 wasn’t a big deal and everything seemed normal. Then suddenly Spain went into lockdown the day before we were scheduled to fly out. Luckily we made our flights without any problems, but I know how tense it was until we were safely back home. Not something I’d want to go through again, nor wish on anyone...

>>>We should stop all modes of travelling which is not sustainable. Stop flying, sell your car(we know the electric cars are not a solution), stop taking cruises. You can still travel by walking, biking, canoeing/kayaking, sailing, dog sledding, horse/camel etc. riding,ski touring and so on. Any maybe, just maybe travelling by train.<<<

Welcome to 1870.

That said, I'm looking forward to a nearly tourist-free NYC this summer . . .

>What if the virus mutates<

All RNA viruses mutate. They don't self-correct when replicating like DNA viruses do.

COVID-19 is an RNA zoonotic virus.

You do realize you have to get a new Influenza vaccination every year. Mutation is the reason.

Thin⌚

Oh, yes, the Chinese spend big bucks in Paris. When Keith and I were in Paris last December the Chinese were buying out Dior, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Cartier, Laduree, Goyard, etc.

Every top restaurant we went to (Michelin star) was filled with Chinese. Cafe Nemours looked like it was in Beijing.

Thin,aristocrat 🍷

Who is saying or claiming that? I have never heard or read that claim.

The loss of employment, interest rates at nearly zero, and superannuation taking at hit, may mean a lot of people won’t have the funds to to travel.
kerouac I did notice at CDG the signs in Chinese, and at other places too.

I can imagine the first international (outside of Shengen) visitors will be from China.

Most likely Irish and UK.

“Most likely Irish and UK.”

I would like to think so too, but with the UK having the world’s highest Covid-19 death rate after the US, and still counting, somehow I doubt it.

I think most European posters here do. I know I do.

Point is: time to end that dependency. It's only brought us death, as it turns out. This goes the other way too: Coronavirus was introduced in NL by Dutch tourists who felt they had a right to go ski beginning of March.

>> Coronavirus was introduced in NL by Dutch tourists who felt they had a right to go ski beginning of March. <<

Rightly or wrongly this is what people have been doing over the years, even schools have vacances en neige breaks in February. We ourselves always took a short vacation during spring break, then another longer one over the summer, almost all involving international travel. All of this had been working reasonably well until the world suddenly came up against Covid-19...

The US death rate by population isn't much different than much of Europe. Better than many countries

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?...=IT&ceid=IT:it

The UK is better.

Ischgl, I presume? They should have reacted far quicker than they did and are now suffering major regret for their lack of action.

Hi Nick, yes I’m aware that the deaths by population isn’t much different in the US to some European countries, as I’ve seen those stats before. I was referring to the numbers in the right hand column of your chart, with the total deaths at about 74k in the US and 30k in the UK. What I meant by “still counting” is the thought that neither of the two countries yet has the pandemic under control.

Ireland, interestingly, has far fewer deaths than either US or UK, but a higher death rate per 1 million population. With each country having different ways of recording Covid-19 statistics it’s difficult to make comparisons.

I really don't want to travel this summer but our trip was already booked in June of last year.
BUT … I have just been informed that KLM cancelled our flight. Such a relief!
Now to get our money back ...

KLM cancelled ours from Amsterdam to Windhoek, ETD August 28!

You might consider visiting California!!! Especially the San Francisco Bay area
...............................Population (M).......deaths.....deaths/M

USA.........................328................... ....73,431........224
Calif...........................40................ ........2,460...........62
USA outside of Ca...288......................70,971.........246
SF Bay Area...............7.7........................334. .........43

Data as of 9PM Pacific Time yesterday

Stu Dudley

Oh wow! My ETD was June 17, booked this February using miles. If they are cancelling as far ahead as end August maybe it is because they want to rework their pricing...?

It probably has nothing to do with pricing...much more to do with load factors (ie flying empty planes) and the changes they will need to make in response to Covid 19.

Our Air France flight from IAD to CDG in June was formally canceled today. The trip is tentatively rescheduled for September but I was able to get a refund on the ticket.

This was out today: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN22J2A2

Which countries will be open for tourism this summer?
 

Europe is loosening coronavirus restrictions. But don’t expect to vacation there anytime soon.

ROME — It is the sort of development company that might catch the eye of anyone weary of lockdowns: The Italian island of Sicily wants to lure back tourists by discounting plane tickets and covering every third night in hotels. But even as European nations begin to emerge from stay-at-home restrictions, they are nowhere close to reopening as international vacation destinations.

The most optimistic countries — Greece and Portugal among them — hope there’s a chance they might be able to pitch themselves as safe options by the second half of summer. Others, including Italy, are looking to regional travel to partially salvage their tourism industries and economies, while they sort out when to reopen borders and whom to let in.

Our Air New Zealand flight from LAX to LHR in September was canceled, but that's because the route itself was to terminate in October, and they decided to shut down the route entirely starting in April. Now I just need to check who is in the Star Alliance I have so many ANZ airpoints I need to use, and am not planning on heading back to New Zealand or Australia within the next year or so!

If you want statistical comparisons, I find this site quite informative.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/