What's with people's fascination with ruins?
 

At the risk of sounding like an illiterate, but I never understood the fascination with ruins. I love history as much as the next person, and I think monuments like the Colosseum, Pantheon and Segovia Aqueduct are very impressive to see in person, but let's face it some ruins are in such a bad shape they are basically a pile of rocks, especially Greek ruins.

I cringe when I hear Fodorites recommend a visit to Delphi or when I see Olympia and Mycena listed among the top 10 things to do in Greece.

Why would someone walk miles in scorching heat to see a pile or rocks when they can be sipping a cocktail on their balcony in Santorini and admiring the caldera views?
Do some people bore themselves intentionally so that they sound more cultured?


What's so special about this?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...27598ea3cd.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...0ab6d5d0b5.jpg

I really loved Delphi - the setting - thoughts of folks consulting the oracle and IMO it is more than a pile of rocks but you can visualize the grandeur:

https://www.google.com/search?q=delp...w=1879&bih=922

I would highly recommend a visit to Delphi as it is a special memory to me - especially after tourists had gone and the place took on a mystical aura. Sometimes those pile of rocks can evoke a special atmosphere and hint at the grandeur the place once had - a special place for ancient Greeks.

What's special about Delphi is the setting. But all that remains from that temple is three columns.
I can't justify driving two hours to see three columns but whatever floats your boat, Pal.

That's Delphi from above. I'd rather be knitting :Dhttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e92a5430d8.jpg

Isn't the caldera a ruin?

If you count the importance of an archaeological site by the number of "rocks" then you really lack on education....
If you are expecting an ancient restored Disneyland stay home or go to Las Vegas. Just my opinion.

Clausar, I can count a hundred things that are hisotrically inportant but which aren't worth visiting. Take Hadrian's Wall, for instance. Very little of it remains.

If an archaeological site requires a lot of imagination, you can have a better idea by looking at reconstruction pictures.

Frankly, I think the only reason some places get touted as must-sees is due to the marketing genius of tourism offices and their attempts at conning tourists out of their money.

Why would you want to sip a cocktail on Santorini when you could drop acid at Delphi and speak to Apollo?

Good question, I don't know why I like ruins, I just know I do. They don't bore me at all. I'm interested in seeing the layout and setting where ancient people lived, worked, governed, and played.

On the other hand, why would someone want to bore themselves sitting on a terrace sipping wine and admiring the view in Santorini? I don't drink alcohol, and while it's beautiful there, I can't personally sit and look at the same view for hours saying "wow". A few minutes maybe, an hour at the very outside, and then I've seen it, let's move on.

Different strokes.

Our experience has been that a really good guide can turn a pile of rocks into an unforgettable story and experience. And vice versa.

Indeed.

I love ruins but French Impressionist painting makes me gag. I'd rather stare at a bunch of rocks than a Monet. Horses for courses.

Ruins create their own aesthetic. Asymmetry, erosion, and randomness form its own natural beauty. They are sites of quietness, where once the mundane, frightful, and great events occurred. They are more honest and inexact than many places we value.

When one goes to an archeological site that isn't as impressive as the Acropolis, Delphi, Olympia or other well-known sites you can get an impression of what they must have been like when in their glory.

When you go to a site that has only foundations, a few walls, a column, a statue, and bases of temples you have to use your imagination . . . and imagination is one of the most important and valuable aspects the human mind has. If you can't see the trees beyond the forest then you have no insight, imagination on what things may have been like. I get as much enjoyment from a scanty archeological site as I do from a major one. I have a brain, I can almost see what that scanty site may have been like, feel the people who walked around and worshipped at those sites.

I feel sorry for someone like the OP who can't think BIG, who can't IMAGINE what a 2,000+ year old site may have looked like, the people, the atmosphere, the excitement of being at there. He sees a bunch of rocks I see history!

I think of all the places I have ever been, I was the most taken with Delphi. Mycenae is a close second. And I found Olympia magical.

It is the authenticity that grabs me, among other things. That I am looking at the foundations of the city inhabited by Agamemnon. That this pile of rocks is where people consulted the oracle of which so many tales are told.

Traveling through Scotland, one sees many castles, some well preserved and others in ruins. I prefer the ones in ruins, by far. I have spent hours photographing such places. I don’t even really want to see how they looked before they were in ruins; I like the ruins for themselves.

But what do I know? A trip to Europe that consists of seeing rocks, reading, and getting to bed early sounds wonderful.

"I think of all the places I have ever been, I was the most taken with Delphi. Mycenae is a close second. And I found Olympia magical.

It is the authenticity that grabs me, among other things. That I am looking at the foundations of the city inhabited by Agamemnon. That this pile of rocks is where people consulted the oracle of which so many tales are told. "

Nikki said it for me.

Now.... who's going to defend the opera??

I supposed we loved the ruins (of Greece last Fall) as to their sheer antiquity. It spoke to the civilization and culture of what existed then, and the wheres and hows of what came to be. When we saw Mycenae, we werent as bowled over as when we saw the treasures excavated from its gravesites which are in the National Museum, a gem of a collection of 3,000 years B.C. on the first floor alone (all we had the time and energy for). Exquisite treasures. In our current world of instant gratification, of Amazon, and products coming off the boats from China, we appreciate the genius, inspiration of such early civilizations. And then there's the glory of Ephesus. We find that it's best to educate yourself BEFORE visiting such places. It amazes me when people I volunteer with talk about their vacations, where they literally just "show up" at a destination, listen to a tourguide talk for hours about a place, recall absolutely next to nothing by the time they return home, and then seem disenchanted about the place -- perhaps they'd have enjoyed that cocktail in Santorini more -- which we did too, but we can do that anywhere -- the Acropolis, Delphi, Ephesus, and all the others are one of a kind and we feel privileged to have seen and experienced them.

Thanks Alice for a well-balanced amd realistic opinion .

I agree that museums make for more enjoyable sightseeing in my opinion. At least you can see the treasures that were excavated from the archeological sites instead of wandering around a bunch of rocks trying to guess where Leonidas or Polydamas used to do number two.

While we love museums, there is something about an antiquity caged in glass that lessens its use. The explanations are welcome, but not that the fact that it was transported now to be inert relic.

Loackerwafer
My husband and I went to Greece last fall for my birthday. I have always dreamed of seeing the Acropolis. To me it was amazing. To my husband it was a pile of rocks. When we saw more ruins he said to me " more rocks". One day on the island of Crete we visited the Palace of Knossos. My husband was excited to see a palace. When we started our visit he looked at me and said " I thought it was a palace? It's more rocks." Yes, we also sipped wine on our balcony while looking at the beautiful sunset on Santorini. I married a wonderful man who really isn't into travel or sightseeing, especially ruins ( rocks) but goes because I love it. His passion is food. He loves to eat. He enjoys our vacations because we can spend time together sightseeing and eating . I read him your post and he started laughing.

I shouldn't have thought that question was too difficult to answer. You could apply the 'what's so special' prefix to most things, really. What is special about ruins is that they are often thousands of years old and people enjoy the process of coming into contact with evidence of ancient civilisations. There will also be the fact that 'filling in the gaps' and using your imagination to reconstruct the ruins of just enjoying a day out in the sun, strolling round and seeing things can be enjoyable. If you have to ask, it means you don't like ruins, so maybe...just don't go and see any?

We were fortunate enough to have seen the original Altamira before it was closed to the general public. Since then cave drawings have become a minor interest. I find it extraordinary that our predecessors, depending on the cave, wanted to communicate with others up to 30,000 years ago. I will let the experts quibble as to the meaning of the drawings, but I was always struck with the perspective and proportions of the animals, considering when the drawings were created. And while I scorn Disneyland and other manufactured fun, where billions of people are seduced into thinking they are experiencing an individual event, I think Lascaux II is different. It is a tribute to craftsmanship and dedication to recreate the origin as best they could, with attempts to emulate original materials and techniques. I think one must take into account, intent and the current understanding and need to protect the past.

Because ruins don't usually look like this

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/v...html?gallery=4

Sorry, I stand corrected, my daughter says the Acropolis does.

I don't think this is a stupid question at all. I say this because I was just telling someone I felt the ruins in Greece were just that, ruins. I am glad I went and went after seeing the ruins in Rome so felt a bit cheated. I've also seen standing stones and wondered why did I hike in mud pits, sheep poop and blowing rain to see stones shorter than myself and not impressive? I went to see for myself. I like to come to my own conclusions. We all don't like the same things and that is what makes life so wonderful. So the next time I'm in Greece, it will free up my time to see and do something else.

This thread calls into question why do people travel? I can never understand going to France and going to Disneyland. Or go bunge jumping or to spend countless hours shopping. I can't understand seeing 14 cities in three hours? What is the point? What do you see, learn, and understand? Why do people travel and then look for food and other familiar things from home?

Why do people decide to visit a country and then ask what to see?
How come so many people now plan their trip as if it was a business meeting and their trip reports sound like it will reviewed by an anal retentive accountant? Did they actual enjoy what they saw?

We have only been to one Greek Island but our trip to Sicily with its extraordinary Greek antiquities has become one of our favorite trips, as has scaling the Mayan temples in Tikal, Guatemala.

I happen to enjoy ruins, and sipping cocktails at sunset or earlier. But what is a ruin? Does it have to be old? Big? Made out of stone?
Is this a ruin or just somebody's broken dreams? In some cases perhaps they evoke similar introspection.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...fea82da751.jpg

I like the new name, loacker, it adds a certain something to your attempts at humor.

I like ruins because you can climb around them, see remains of architectural details still in their place, and see the evolution of a building.

but really, you can ask the same question about anything. I like churches too. Not all churches- sacre coeur was the most boring one I’ve been too, yet it’s in all the guidebooks. But some churches have an element about them that makes it amazing. Sometimes it’s art, or relic or a window, or a well. But you don’t know until you go inside. Ruins are the same. Stupid to skip when you don’t know if it could be the next one that captures your imagination.

Personally I wonder the same about people whose Greece itinerary looks like this (Athens, Korinthos, Delphi, Olympia, Mycenae) Did they enjoy what they saw? Was their itinerary planned by an uptight librarian with no sense of fun? More importantly, did they actually see Greece?

Greece is not only about ruins. That's ancient Greece. Modern Greece is about taking things slow and sampling meze in a local tavern. It's about experience village life in Halki and learning about Orthodox Christianity in Meteora.
Santorini, Hydra, Naxos, as touristy as they are, and even downtown Athens, are more reflective of modern Greek culture than Olympia or Delphi.

People always ask how do I live like a local?

Go the supermarket and buy toilet paper and make an appointment with the dentist.
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There are many ways to visit a country and only one includes living like one segment of the current population. How I spend my day, is very different than my neighbors spend theirs. Many waste their time by working and taking care of their children.

I find that the ruins of African Greece and Greece Major are far more impressive that those in the home country, but that is partially because there are fewer earthquackes and partially because Italy fascists havn't been there to rebuild them. Still I like to stretch my childhood memory of learning about the subject, working out where the the baths were and why they moved/changed, I also like to see if the repairs have worked, often you find the repairers put the stone back upside down or on its side. I guess once the engineer always the engineer.

Personally I wonder the same about people whose Greece itinerary looks like this (Athens, Korinthos, Delphi, Olympia, Mycenae) Did they enjoy what they saw? Was their itinerary planned by an uptight librarian with no sense of fun? More importantly, did they actually see Greece?>

Of course all those places are in or near lovely small towns except Athens - they do not spend the whole time traipsing around ruins.

"Why would someone walk miles in scorching heat to see a pile or rocks when they can be sipping a cocktail on their balcony in Santorini and admiring the caldera views?"
You could always visit off season you know. :p The best time to see the Greek ruins is during Autumn and Spring.

The site of the oracle of Delphi is really astonishing. I was there during March, felt as if I traveled in time. The museum has done a great job in helping you understand how magnificent this site was on its greatest moments. The energy of this place is really interesting as well. Same goes for the Acropolis, Olympia and Poseidon's Temple (Sounio). If you cannot conceive that, then such destinations should be left off your bucket list. Just pick the best islands and go and have fun. Some find history boring, I don't. Just a matter of taste. People who like culture and ruins don't think that they are better than others who would rather unwind by the seaside. They simply appreciate older civilizations. The good thing about Greece is that you can combine it all ;) Great places for that are Naxos, Santorini, Tinos, Crete, Rhodes, Hydra, Aegina, Paros, Samos, Kos,Spetses, Lesvos and more...

FYI
Santorini was the cradle of the Neolithic civilisation in the area of the Cyclades, which has been destroyed by the eruption of the volcano around 1,650 B.C. In Fira, there are two main museums, the Prehistoric Thera Museum, which presents the most significant murals found at the prehistoric settlement of Akrotiri, and the Archaeological Museum of Thera, which hosts statues and discoveries from the Archaic, Geometric, Hellenistic and Roman Periods. The archaeological site at Akrotiri is definitely worth a visit as it was constructed around 4,500 B.C. and was covered by ashes and lava due to the enormous volcanic eruption around 1,650 B.C., and thus, it was preserved intact through time.

Naxos is a Cycladic island that has a long history and can offer to its visitors important archaeological sites to discover. Portara is the symbol of Naxos and the first thing you will see on the cliff above the port as the boat approaches the island. Portara is a gate, which is the only remain of the ancient Temple of Apollo that was constructed on the island in the 6th century B.C. In the 6th century B.C., it was also constructed the ancient Temple of Demeter, the goddess of grain and agriculture. It is located in a short walking distance from the village of Ano Sangri, and it is an ideal place to explore the history and ancient culture of Naxos. Outside the village of Melanes, in the countryside of Naxos, can be seen the remarkable statue of Kouros. It lies on the ground, at the exact position, where it was found by the archaeologists. It is 6 meters long and dates back to the 7th century B.C. Historians believe that this huge statues represents either a god or a local hero. Another Kouros statue is located 200 m from the first, and there is also a third statue in the village of Apollonas.

The island of Delos is unique for the lovers of history. You can visit it with a day-trip from Mykonos. Delos is uninhabited. According to mythology, Delos was the birthplace of God Apollo, and the ancient Greeks considered it a sacred place, building the Temple of Apollo and a theatre for performances. In the archaeological site of Delos, you can also see the Street of the Lions to the way to the temple and admire the findings of the excavations in the Archaeological Museum.

Culture island hopping can also be done in the Dodecanese and specifically on the islands of Kos and Rhodes. Rhodes is worldwide famous for its Medieval Town. The Medieval Town of Rhodes is one of the best-preserved medieval cities, and thereat, Unesco inscribed it on its World Heritage List. During the Byzantine Period, Rhodes was an important trading post between Alexandria and Istanbul. In the 7th century A.D., the Arabs captured Rhodes, and the Knights Period started in the 14th and continued until the 16th century. Walking around the Old Town of Rhodes is a unique experience of medieval beauty and multicultural character between the East and West. In Rhodes,you can also admire ancient sites, such as the Acropolis of Lindos, where you will see the Doric temple of Athena Lindia, the Propylaea of the Sanctuary, the Hellenistic Stoa, or ancient Kamiros.

Kos is the hometown of Hippocrates and ancient medicine. In the front of the Castle of the Knights, in the centre of Kos Town, there is a plane tree, under which, according to the myth, Hippocrates, the father of Medicine, used to teach his students, while you can also visit Asklepieion. In the antiquity, Asklepieion was a medical centre, and it was built to honour the God of Medicine and Health, Asklepios. It was built during the 5th century B.C., and Hippokrates had taught also there his students, the doctors of the antiquity.

I love them because we do not have anything like them in Australia, assembly are such a young country. I can look at them for hours and try and try and visualise what it looked like it it’s original form, how people lived and went about their daily lives. I can stare at them for hours, but can also stare at the landscape for hours as well, and after just getting up close and personal with some Monet’s and a Van Gough I will at that to my list. So much to see in the world and so little time.

anniesweetiepie...thank you for that wonderful post.... brought back a lot of memories.

I happen to live near two extraordinary ancient monuments, a complete circuit of 1st century Roman walls in Lugo and the world’s only still working Roman lighthouse in La Coruña, which the architect dedicated to Mars. It may be encased in a baroque sheath but 38 metres of the original structure remain. It’s not about rubble, you know.

What makes ruins special is their direct connection to history. It's not so much the imagination required to visualize what they might have looked like, but rather what happened there. Historical knowledge allows you to understand the significance of literally standing on the spot where historical things happened. If that doesn't move you, then I'd say you lack imagination.

For some reason many of the posts logged into this thread have been deleted.

Anyway . . . some people's junk is another person's treasure.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Some people see rocks . . . others see history.

I like to fill a flask with good booze then go to enjoy the ruins.It makes for a better trip...Why do people sit around and stare at the water?.No big thing since the earth is primarily covered with the stuff.

You're welcome Gwendolynn! I'm glad you liked it. That is exactly why I like sharing travel tips: I get to relieve the moment :)
Summer is almost here... Can't wait to get back to the islands!!!

Anniesweetiepie, what an evocative description! IMO the sense of history which pervades these ancient sites is indescribable...I had goosebumps while visiting Olympia, the Acropolis. Sounion, Ephesus and countless other "ruins" and found the whole experience thrilling, to say the very least. Delphi is on the agenda for our trip to Greece next may, also Knossos and Akrotiri.

For the most part DH is also interested and happy to go traipsing around historical sites with me, except for the time he refused to go to Aspendos after two weeks in Turkey, claiming "one amphitheatre is just like the other"! Needless to say I've never let him forget it, lol :)

As a fellow Non-Ruins person, I thank loackerwafer for starting this thread. I've always been a bit embarrassed by my lack of feeling for ruins so it's been nice to learn that there are others out there of education and intelligence who share my lack of interest in this aspect of travel. It's also been very interesting to hear others explain why they are so interested in ruins, and to hear so many opinions expressed resolutely while not denigrating those of others who don't share theirs. Thank you all. Now I return to my own interest in bread and circuses without apologies.

There were plenty of denigrating remarks. They have vanished.