What restaurant guide for Italy would you never leave home without?
 

I'd like to get some suggestions for great places to eat in northern Italy this fall - Florence, Venice, Verona, Varenna.

I've heard that "Cheap eats in Italy" is good... but I can't seem to find a version that's been updated in the past few years and wonder if that'll be a problem. (I'm still looking into it). I am also checking out www.slowfood.com.

Any other thoughts?

As for what I'm looking for, I've been accused of being a Foodie... and I am fairly adventurous! But mostly I am looking for great "value" places, authentic little gems, though I may splurge once or twice, if I think it's worth it.

Thanks for sharing! I'm getting hungry just thinking about it...

Faith Willinger's book, The Food of Italy, has great recommendations, although it is only for Northern Italy, but that should work for where you are going...enjoy

OOPS...sorry, the name is "Eating in ITaly" by faith willinger

What restaurant guide would I never leave home without?

My nose and a sense of adventure. They seem to serve me better than any guide I've tried.

Since I'm vegan, I never leave home without a list of restaurants from Vegdining.com and HappyCow.com.

I did this for Italy, and basically do it for any place that we travel to - foreign or domestic. We've enjoyed some great spots worldwide.

I would go with "Cheap Eats..." than patrick's nose and and sense of adventure. I never could count on them and they never served me any good.

Bill

Sandra Gustafson's book is now called "Great Eats Italy." There is 3/1/2002 version with that name and 6/1/2005 version of "Great Eats Italy: Florence, Rome, Venice."

I used the former for my trip to Italy earlier this year.

The Michelin Red Guide, hands down. If you want "cheap" they have "good value" listings for great food at good value.

Why would anybody want to go to Italy and "eat cheap"? (Just asking...)

We used Great Eats a little bit in Rome (and Paris) and it was very hit or miss. We did best when we found out of the way places with locals eating in them (not that easy to do - but you know what I mean) or took the advice of the person we rented the apartment from.

bill boy, I never knew you traveled with my nose? But sorry it didn't work for you, it works great for me.

I never even think about taking a restaurant guide. While out and exploring keep an eye out for restaurants that interest you. Check them out. If the restaurant is serving great looking lunches, there is a good aroma, the place looks clean, the patrons look happy and relaxed then make a reservation for dinner.

After dinner it is fun to take a late evening stroll and find other interesting restaurants for the upcoming days.

Mangia!!!

Thanks for your responses!

Yes, my preference is to find out where the locals eat, if I can... and of course I will ask my hosts. The guide will be a backup... which could, at any time be veto'd by my nose!! :-)

I'm looking for a guide because of my experience in Portugal last year, which was wonderful for the most part.. but I found the food incredibly hit and miss. A friend whom I met for a few days in Lisbon, had a Rotard guide with her (not printed in English, as far as I know - a shame!) and when we used it, it made SUCH a difference price and quality-wise. I don't mind spending, if I really do get something exceptional. But when you find the right places, you shouldn't have to pay through the nose! Pardon the pun.

So this time, as I only have two weeks in Italy... I want to be a bit more prepared.

Hi AltheainTO,

I don't travel with any given guide book, however an absolute MUST are my notes from the good people here on what restaurants they found delightful in their travels.

If it works out with our adventure, I try to give one of the recommended spots a try, otherwise I use the "Patrick method" and just trust my scents (and good sense, hee) and try a new place. Also, it has been my experience, that hotel personnel have paved the road to new delicious places.

A mix of all three is nice, after all, how will we ever get new restaurant rec's if we don't try new places!

Hee, have fun with it, and enter text into the search box above, such as "Florence restaurants" and watch the tempting trattorias unfold!

Best wishes, Tiff

For any towns we plan to visit, I always consult Slowfood.it. The Italian version has listings of restaurants all over Italy. Even though,I am by no means fluent in Italian, I can figure out whether it's a place I'd like to try. I've never been disappointed. The English site is: http://slowfood.com/
The registration is free.

I agree that the slowfood site is wonderful, but the information is limited. However it is very good for recommendations. Better still is the book Osterie d'Italia by Slowfood. It is updated regularly and only the best make it into the guide. It is in Italian but easy enough to follow if you have some basic vocabulary. This is the very best guide for eating in Italy, IMO. You can buy the latest edition online or in most book shops in Italy. Very good information on opening times and more. They have an English language eating guide for Rome.

I like Sandra Gustafson for eating in Paris more than anywhere else. Italy? I think she is just so so.

I have ALL the books on eating in Italy, and I find that reading a lot, and taking copies of the appropriate Michelin Red Guide pages, recommendations from trusted fellow travelers, and buying a copy of Osterie d'Italia is the best way to go for me.

i've found the suggestions of hotel staff to be unreliable. all too frequently they have a vested interest in promoting nearby spots.

i've found slowfood to be invaluable for the smaller towns in italy but tend to rely more on suggestions from this board (corraborated by the "patrick method") in the cities. i do like the idea of checking out the lunch crowd and then making a dinner reservation.

dining is such a subjective enterprise comprised of many factors: food, service and ambience not any of which several will agree upon. as with film or book reviews, one must have some initial affinity with the individual critic, dip their toe in the water and, then, make a decision.

Just to avoid confusion, the Osterie d'Italia, referred to in Tuscanlifeedit's post, is a book published by Slowfood. It's contents are available free on the the Italian Slowfood site:
www.slowfood.it
After you register and log in, there is a link entitled "Osterie d'Italia." Click on it and then select the region of Italy you want.

Hi subcon, I agree with you about restaurant reviews, as well as book and movie reviews.

In fact "some of us" just got told off on the US Board because of a negative comment made about a new restaurant in my area. There were some positive comments made but also a comment that the food was greasy and salty. Not my type of food, and the person that gave the review likes the type of food that I do so I sure don't feel like I need to check this place out myself. But a new poster really got upset because he loves the restaurant. But it turns out that the other restaurants he likes in the area are not my favorites, so yes, we all have different opinions.

And one of my favorite restaurants in SF was hated by some people I know. I didn't realize they liked quanity over quality.

I love going to my favorite restaurants but I push myself to try new ones. And unless I get food poisoning (that has happened twice, yuck!) I just chalk it up to an experience that I would not have had if I hadn't ventured out. Have found some fantastic places that way.

BTW, with a new (to us )restaurant my late husband always liked going in for a drink or glass of wine (if there was a bar area) to get the feel of a restaurant. He would then ask to look at the menu. Another thing he would do if he didn't feel 100% sure about the hygeine would be to check the restroom out. One time (can't remember which one) in SF he did that and when he returned from the restroom he pulled me out of the place before I even got to finish my glass of wine, LOL. His thinking was of course if the restroom that the public has access to is not clean what is the kitchen and hygeine habits of the restaurant like. Good thinking!

Best wishes to you Altheain for some great restaurant finds. And btw, a fish restaurant that I like in Venice is the Restaurant all Madonna. When you cross the Rialto Bridge from the San Marco side, turn left and about two calles down in the dell Madonna. You will see this restaurant about half way down.

Do check it out before making reservations though as I haven't been there for awhile and it many have gone "downhill" as it has become very well known.

I have always been terrible at keeping info on restaurants when I travel but have vowed to do it in the future!

Mangia!!

<<<Better still is the book Osterie d'Italia by Slowfood. It is updated regularly and only the best make it into the guide. It is in Italian but easy enough to follow if you have some basic vocabulary. This is the very best guide for eating in Italy, IMO. You can buy the latest edition online or in most book shops in Italy. Very good information on opening times and more. They have an English language eating guide for Rome.>>>

I second the Oterie d'Italia. Even though it is in Italian, it is up to date and you can get by even with just knowing the names and addresses of the restaurants in this guide. A restaurant that appears in this book gets a sticker they can display in the window or on the front door. Look for it, even if you don't get the book. And as rbrazill stated, you can check it out on their website.

Another book I would recommend highly is Italy for The Gourmet Traveler by Fred Plotkin. My copy is dog-eared.

Awesome, thanks to everyone who responded!

I just ordered Slowfood Osterie d'Italie guide online. I noted your recommendation in Venice too, LoveItaly. And I'll do some more searches beforehand... such fun.

Thanks again!

Hi Altheain, I just happened to think of another restaurant. It is an old institution in Verona. It is I Dodici Apostoli. It is near the Piazza Bra in Verona. It is expensive, am not sure of your restaurant budget, but everytime I have eaten there the food has been fantastic and Italian friends love to go there if they happen to be in Verona. Beautiful restaurant! But again, do check it out because we all know places can change from time to time although I think this restaurant is such an old institution in Verona it probably hasn't.

Hmmm, maybe I can start remembering some more restaurant names. And I hate to "think" on Sundays, LOL.

Oh, just remembered a place in Florence where my Italians friends that live in Florence and I always make sure to have at least one lunch at while I am seeing them.

It is in the Piazza Republica. On the north side of the Piazza is the Savoy Hotel. Look at the Piazza, toward your right. I can't remember the name of the restaurant at the moment but you can't miss it. In front of the restaurant building are a lot of umbrella tables. Or is it that the tables are under a very large awning? Oh goodness, having a senior moment, LOL. It is a great place to relax at when you have done a lot of walking as the tables are shaded, the service is excellent and the food is wonderful. And of course you are never rushed to leave the table. Think you would enjoy it. For some reason I always have lunch there versus dinner but I would think their dinners are just as wonderful.

<i>&quot;What restaurant guide for Italy would you never leave home without?&quot;</i>

My own, of course.

But since none of you can get your hands on that information (yet), there are a few people I would trust and neither of them posts here.

Faith Willinger is definitely at the top of my list but, to get current information that isn't in her (somewhat dated) book, you have to be in contact with her.

Same is true with Maureen Fant, who's been a must-read staple at the New York Times for years. Her book is newer than Faith's but these books can never offer the latest &quot;tea&quot; or the newest entrees because the world of publishing is much slower than the world of food and fine dining.

The great thing about both ladies is that you can pay to spend a little time with them. Faith offers private cooking courses in Florence and Maureen offers guided restaurant tastings through ContextRome/ScalaReale in Rome. These are two terrific ways to get the latest, most current information on food in Italy.

You may not be able to meet or dine with her but every Venice officiado knows, you're not a member of the Venice cognoscenti unless you own Michela Scibilia's <i>&quot;Venezia Osterie &amp; Dintorni - A Guide to the Eateries of Venice.&quot;</i> It's not available anywhere on the internet and there are a limited number of copies to be had in Venice, especially in English. Michela is a well-known native Venetian and, even though her forte isn't reviewing food, she knows the real deal when she sees it. I've often found that certain natives know where to go to find great, authentic cooking. Michela is one of those.

Opinions about food on this board are like everything else, everyone has one and one must tread carefully to find one with any thoughtful meaning to support it. However, once you spend some time here reading and get to know the taste and personality of the contributor, it gets easier to edit opinions that you would never consider in any other circumstance.

OP -- After having been in Portugal, I understand your restaurant concerns as we had some pretty lame meals there despite my best efforts (including a gastronomic destination restaurant in Lisbon we went to for our anniversary dinner.) There's a real monotony to the cuisine and an indifference to its preparation in many places. My experience in Italy is that it is very difficult to find a bad meal, even when eating for value. [Except for some places in Venice that cater primarily to tourists.] For the most part, I side with the person who told you to check out menues as you are strolling around and follow your salivary glands. Since I used to cook in NYC in an Italian restaurant, I'm pretty proficient in understanding a menu in Italian, but you can venture inside and ask for an English version in most cases (as I recall.) Good luck and enjoy an experience that far surpasses your Portugese culinary experience.

Even if you can't meet her, you <b>can</b> buy Michela Scibilia's book on line:

http://www.teodolinda.it/ing-osterie.htm

And, by the way, NYCTravelSnob, I think you meant &quot;aficionado&quot; and not &quot;officiado.&quot;

I guess I don't understand recommending sources that are unavailable to most posters here. And not quoting them as a courtesy.

What, please, is the point other than to show that one is more on the inside than anyone else?

Althea,

Another good web source for Florence is the Divina Cucina website. She lists excellent eateries in every price range and neighborhood.

www.divinacucina.com

Nice work, Eloise. Last time I checked, that website wasn't available. Good for Michela!

Of course I meant &quot;aficionado&quot; but sometimes I like making up my own words. It's the hip-hop girl in me.

As for tuscanlifeedit, what a party-pooper! I love when someone on the &quot;inside&quot; shares a terrific find. Who on earth wants to be on the outside of great information, especially if it improves the quality of a travel experience?

When trying to find restaurant ideas, I look everywhere I can. When planning a trip last year that included Venice, Ferrara, Bologna (and Tuscany and Rome), I used many of the resources already mentioned (except those in Italian), as well as guidebooks (especially the less-common, more area-specific ones), the chowhound and egullet websites, and any web-based information I could find.

What I noticed, rather obviously, is that there's less info (especially in English) for the relatively-smaller Italian cities. I also noticed, however, that quite a few Italian restaurants seem to have websites. I like looking at restaurant websites to see what the restaurant looks like, and also if they post a menu, the kinds of items the restaurant is likely to have. The restaurant website doesn't help with info re quality, but does help with factual matters. I can see, for example, if the menu includes items that are likely to appeal to me.

As for posts by others, of course I used those too. Most helpful are those that give details, both about the restaurant (both the food and the dining experience as a whole) and about the poster. It makes it easier to tell if their experience is the type you're looking for. Least helpful, of course, are those that say &quot;went to Guilio's Ristorante - it was great&quot; (WHY was it great?)

That being said, specifically, last year in Venice (yes, only one night in Venice this time) we ate at Osteria Anice Stellato. It's out of the way, in the Canneregio, on a quiet side canal. As our hotel was also in the Canneregio, it was a nice walk for us. The restaurant had a low-key, typical Italian restaurant decor (nice but not fancy); mostly Italians (couldn't tell if they were Venetians), though same tables of English-speaking guests. We shared a starter of spaghetti alla chitarra with l'astice (spiney lobster); then followed with John Dory and sea bream (oratine); I had dessert and hubby didn't. The starter, in particular, was delightful, though the rest of the dinner was very good too (though my oratine had more bones than I would have liked). The &quot;pane integrale&quot; was very good too. The bill was 100E, and included a 35E bottle of wine. Probably that doesn't fit in your &quot;value&quot; category, but we enjoyed a place that was a bit out of the way. (Later, I saw it mentioned in, I think, Food &amp; Wine magazine.)

Well tuscanlife, sounds like I'm on the right track: I'm taking www.divinacucina.com's cooking course while in Florence. Must read her site more closely for listings, and of course ask Judy when I meet her!

Also to all of you, thanks for the (&quot;inside&quot; and &quot;outside&quot;) information! As for budget, I am prepared to pay $100 pp+ now and then. That IS Canadian dollars, BTW :-) I just want to make sure that whatever I pay, I get what I pay for... Finding small, reasonable, wonderful, out of the way places, though, are the real treasures to me. Even in my hometown of Toronto, I'm constantly on the lookout. ;-)

Thanks again... I've got an awesome start.

Chow! Venice is a fantastic guide to restaraunts in Venice. Variety of places and prices; detailed directions of how to get there, and written by 2 regular posters on the slowtrav board.

Were right on with every place we tried!

Anne

I just had to put in another vote for The Michelin Red Guide. When my husband and I went to Italy, we had some guide books, I also took the recommendations from this board and from other magazines, sources, etc. I would &quot;cross reference&quot; the place with each of my resources to see if the restaurant was recommended in more than one of them.

But honestly, EVERY place we tried that was in the The Michelin Red Guide was EXCELLENT. My husband and I are hoping to get back to Italy next year and we've both said to each other, the one item we MUST take with us is the The Michelin Red Guide.

A dissenting voice on Chow ! Venice, I'm afraid. We took it with us this June &amp; thought it was rubbish. Also not impressed with Fred Plotkin. Have used the Michelin Red Guide &amp; Osterie d'Italia with some success.

Earlier, NYCTravelSnob had written:

&quot;You may not be able to meet or dine with her but every Venice officiado knows, you're not a member of the Venice cognoscenti unless you own Michela Scibilia's &quot;Venezia Osterie &amp; Dintorni - A Guide to the Eateries of Venice.&quot; It's not available anywhere on the internet and there are a limited number of copies to be had in Venice, especially in English. Michela is a well-known native Venetian and, even though her forte isn't reviewing food, she knows the real deal when she sees it. I've often found that certain natives know where to go to find great, authentic cooking. Michela is one of those.&quot;

Well, I'd like to announce my induction into the inner foodies circle in Venice.

I bought her book at the Accademia bookstore. Quite a few copies available, in fact. Price is 12.90 euros. There's also a French version I remember seeing.

It seems so easily available that even I was surprised. As Eloise said, it's apparently available online (but I've not checked).

I've not looked at it at great length, but there's overlap with some other guidebooks. For example, she recommends Da Fiore, Al Covo, etc. (just like everyone else).

I first became aware of her through the documentary &quot;The Venetian Dilemma,&quot; which I saw at the Film Forum. See this link to the documentary:

http://www.parnassusworks.org/characters.htm

I'll quote from my blog:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T624528CB

&quot;7:30: Dinner at restaurant near hotel, mentioned surprisingly in Scibilia's guide to Venice eateries. Couldn't figure out her story is. She complains about the lack of infrastructure for locals in the documentary (&quot;Venetian Dilemma&quot;) and wrote a guidebook for places good for locals, but then the guidebook gets translated into English and a tourist like me buys it?! I saw the book in Accademia's bookstore, but found the restaurant first in Time Out.&quot;

I had dinner Rivetta (Castello 4625), listed on p. 52 of her guidebook.

&quot;Much frequented by gondoliers,&quot; she tells us. But so does Time Out Venice.

The menu has four languages, but the food was actually quite good. It was a three-minute walk from my hotel.

I'm <b>eagerly</b> awaiting NYCTravelSnob's guidebook to Venice, which I'm sure will be full of insider information that 14 million tourists to Venice have somehow not managed to uncover. You've my e-mail, NYC, so you can get Marilyn to send me one when the guidebook is ready.

I don't want to miss out on my next trip to Venice. :-)

--Well, I'd like to announce my induction into the inner foodies circle in Venice.--

It does take more than owning a book or a half-day visit to truly know and appreciate Venetian cucina. Congratulations on the self-induction, anyway.

--It seems so easily available that even I was surprised. As Eloise said, it's apparently available online.--

Easily available? Well, that depends. It used to mean you had to go to Venice and then venture into a Venice bookshop and either look for it or ask for it. Millions of tourists never venture into Venice bookshops and millions more don't purchase online. At least you had the will and motivation.

Michela's book, as mentioned in &quot;Venetian Dilemma,&quot; is her second edition. The first edition was much harder to come by and, to my knowledge, was never available via the internet.

It makes perfect business sense that Michela, being a graphic designer and all, embraced the &quot;Venetian Dilemma&quot; opportunity and produced her own website. Her website hasn't been around that long. Even so, it helps to know that &quot;teodolinda&quot; is the name of Michela's grandmother, otherwise, you may never realize that the link Eloise provided has anything to do with Michela, or her book, if you simply relied on Google.

--I've not looked at it at great length, but there's overlap with some other guidebooks. For example, she recommends Da Fiore, Al Covo, etc. (just like everyone else).--

Her books were designed to celebrate &quot;Venetian-owned&quot; osterie and to inform the visiting public of &quot;authentic&quot; establishments. She does not critique food and does not &quot;recommend&quot; specific places. (Read the &quot;Intro.&quot;) Naturally, many restaurants in her book will be listed and reviewed elsewhere.

Venetians, like most Italians, do not think of their restaurants as a &quot;scene&quot; like many New Yorkers do. Most Italians consider themselves better cooks than restaurant owners. It's very difficult to create a &quot;new&quot; restaurant or a restaurant &quot;scene&quot; in Italy because Italians love tradition which explains why they return to the same places over and over again, especially in the older, larger city centers.

I have to laugh every time I hear &quot;where do the locals eat?&quot; I'm always dying to respond &quot;At home!&quot;

How interesting! Michela Scibilia's grandmother was named after a 6th-century Longobard queeen...

I assure you that I was unaware of that interesting detail -- since I claim no personal relationship to Michela Scibilia -- and that I found the information about her book through Google.

Isn't it interesting that aev90210 has only contributed to four threads (click on the name) and chosen to answer to me?

Is this a snob from Beverly Hills? A cousin of NYC in California? :-)

&quot;It does take more than owning a book or a half-day visit to truly know and appreciate Venetian cucina. Congratulations on the self-induction, anyway.&quot;

I understand that, but I think that you're missing the irony and jest in my post.

After all, it was someone else who first brought up the Scibilia guidebook, no? There's an implication in that post that this is some secret black book, and I'm just saying that it's probably not such a great guidebook.

And I find it funny that I bought it right at the Accademia bookstore.

I'm sure that lots of tourists go there -- I didn't go through great effort to get this book, and this adds to the irony of this all.

I find this very funny and entertaining.

One would think that a self-proclaimed &quot;NYCFoodSnob&quot; or &quot;NYCTravelSnob&quot; has something better to offer.

In the end, it was no better than someone who went to Venice for 24 hours.

:-)

Let me repeat. I'm very much looking forward to learning about Venice from one of the great experts on this forum. As I wrote:

I'm <b>eagerly</b> awaiting NYCTravelSnob's guidebook to Venice, which I'm sure will be full of insider information that 14 million tourists each year] to Venice have somehow not managed to uncover.

I don't want to miss out on my next trip to Venice.

Maybe you should've taken her suggestion from around a year ago to eat the the Brek cafeteria near the train station. Would've saved yourself some money.

By the way, to give you a sense for what's in the book:

&quot;... and where do the local gourmets eat?&quot; (p. 13)

Agli Alboreti, Al Covo, Fiaschetteria Toscana, Da Fiore, Santa Marina and Alle Testiere.

Ok, I've not been to Venice in six years and was only just there for 24 hours. Even with my casual knowledge of Venice restaurants, I see three familiar names on this list.

Where can meet for an aperitif? (p. 12)

&quot;exclusive&quot; Harry's Bar (for a Bellini), Monaco -- Gran Canal (sip a Martini to live piano music)

Well, I'm so glad that Scibilia is able to tell me that I should go to Harry's for exclusive bellinis. Very useful information. :-)

But to be honest, I'm not &quot;criticizing&quot; her book. I'm interested in know what makes this book special (I'm sure someone can give me page references -- it's only 80 pages and doesn't take so long to read, especially if you're familiar with Venice, and, as I said, I am not).

I'm also looking forward to all the secret recommendations that one particular expert seems to know about but doesn't provide.

Tis a shame. :-)

What restaurant guide do we take? Our wonderful Italian friends who live near Orvieto! They take us to some of the most splended eateries... mostly in out of the way places that we would NEVER find in a million years!
Carol