Most frequent flyers will NOT use miles for a free ticket, as this practice is one of the worst possible use of miles. Most that I know, including myself, will use miles to upgrade from cheap Y tickets, and here is why:

J ticket to Europe - 90K miles gone.

A cheap Y ticket to Europe - between $400-700, depending on the season. Upgrade with miles - 50K miles, but as a Plat or Executive Plat you will get about 20-25K miles back, depending on your location, So, it actually costs only about 25K-30K miles. Besides, the actual flown miles help you to requalify for your status, whereas a free ticket = nothing. So you see, the real frequent flyers, especially AA FF, because of the ability to upgrade from any published fare, will not use miles for free J tickets. You could take a survey on <b>www.flyertalk.com</b> on the AA foum and I'm willing to bet that about 90% of the people there will agree with me.

Speak for yourself.
I usually go to Europe for more than 90 days at a time. I have yet to find a round trip ticket for that length of time in coach for less than $1500.
I've been using the many, many miles I get through various sources at the rate of 90,000 a year (each of us do this on our own accounts) and still have enough to do it again the next year, so getting the miles back and spending $3000 for the two of us is not such a good deal.
In addition if we bought a coach class, we couldn't do two stopovers which are included when we do a business class ticket.
For example we flew from Florida to New York (first class because there is no business class) stayed there three weeks, flew business to London and stayed three weeks, then flew business on BA to Berlin. Several months later we flew home business from Paris to Miami. All this was on a free 90,000 mile ticket. If we had used 50,000 miles each after buying those $1500 coach seats, we couldn't have stopped in New York -- would have had to make that an entire separate trip, and we couldn't have gotten that business class on to Berlin either. So trust me -- it was a GREAT use of our miles.

By the way we are not elite status despite all our miles because we don't fly that much -- our miles are earned other ways -- through personal and business credit cards, phone service, I-Dine, and a host of other things. So we also wouldn't earn back miles at an increased rate.

I realize my situation may be unique, but trust me, I feel it is the BEST use of my miles for travel.

You did say frequent flyers, didn't you?

My point was and still is that FF do as I posted, and the leisure flyer lucky enough to collect enough miles fo 1 or 2 trips a year do it as you described.

And regarding checking with flyertalk, I'm sure you will have a hard time there finding many people who do what I do -- stay in Europe for three or more months at a time and do two extended stopovers. In fact the vast majority of them are business travelers working with a whole different set of &quot;rules&quot; or &quot;standards&quot;.

Regarding those other four people with FREE first class tickets. They explained it to me. The men were business partners (their own business) and had racked up thousands and thousands of miles. This was the way they justified taking their wives to Europe -- the airfares didn't cost them a thing. So I'm not so sure I'm totally alone in getting free tickets.

In fact when I book my tickets the maximum advance time ahead, AA has two tickets in business class available for total miles and two or more for upgrades. Invariably if I haven't called the first day possible, they tell me the &quot;free tickets&quot; are gone, but the upgrade ones are still available. So clearly I'm not the only one using the full mileage awards.

Award and upgrade inventory changes all the time. For the real FF there is a great Sabre availibilty tool that could be checked for award/ugrade availibilty so there is no need to do the 330 day thing, which I find very amusing. I never had to reserve a trip more than about 3 months ahead, and yes I also used miles for a free ticket, but when it counts and makes sense. My upgrade requests always clear because I know which particular flights still have inventory or when it becomes available again. That's when I buy a ticket, so dear Patrick, the FF game is fun, but it's for the real FFlyers.

Enjoy your long trips!

Obviously we come from two different worlds and are on two different wave lengths. I don't just &quot;have&quot; to reserve 330 days ahead. And I would never be happy booking just 3 months ahead? Why? Because I know where I want to stay. And my apartments in London and Paris, for example will be booked if I don't do it almost a year ahead. So I can't or don't want to book them and then play games with what date I can fly. This is not an inconvenience to me, it's how I like it.

I didn't know it was a &quot;contest&quot; between those of us who gather miles for leisure travel and those who fly all the time for business. All I care about is getting my miles to make my trips more enjoyable and more attainable by saving my money. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if I'm a &quot;true&quot; Frequent Flyer, which is apparently somehow bordering on god-like or not, all I care about is myself. Call that selfish if you like.

I always fly Northwest... what does that have to do with anything?

If it was NWA, then it was not really First Class. It's you basic Business Class configuration. NWA does not have 3 class planes, only 2. The only 2 US based airlines left that offer true First Class configuration are AA and UA. What you were upgraded to is the equivalent to Business class on the other 2.

I stated before, that 1 class upgrades do happen, although it's like winning a lotto these days, but the ultimate double class upgrades just don't happen.

And I wonder how long AA will keep up their 3 class configuration? For the past two summers now our AA flight 63 from Paris to Miami only has two classes -- coach and business. They dropped the First class on that flight at least two years ago.

There are 2 First Class configurations on AA. The Atlantic with the suites and he Pacific with the coffins :-). The Atlantic suites are just wonderful.
Anyway, AA has these on 777s only. The cties that are still served by 777s are: Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, Rio and Buenos Aires.

AA has no choice but to keep F cabin on at least 3 of these routes, Tokyo, London(a must), and Frankfurt. So I do believe they will keep the 3 class comfig for some time to come.

OK, do you think it's now time to move on, and you can agree to disagree? ((a)) ((b))

Gee Bud, the last few posts haven't been anything about agreeing or disagreeing.

NWA

(Replying to AAFF person) Do you not know your airplanes??? DC10s from NWA have a &quot;true&quot; first class for there long international flights. NWA planes that don't fly international would have a more &quot;business&quot; seats. The plane I flew on had very nice seats where you could even put your feet up (kind of like a lazy boy feel). You have got to be kidding me when you say NWA doesn't have a &quot;true&quot; first class... Do you even ever fly international on NWA??? ... please child you make me laugh...

NWA has <b>World Business Class</b>. You could call me any name you like, but the NWA seats are nothing more than business class seats on 3 class airlines. Yes, they have a nice recline, yes they have a foot rest, and yes they are quite comfortable, but nothing that compares to true first class <b>flat bed personal suites</b>. Besides, they only run 2 class planes and World Business class name is their invention, not mine. So at best you were upgraded 1 class up from Y.

Sorry!

Some of NW's international planes have, or are getting, the newer World Business seats, which have 176-degree of recline, and should be slightly better than AA, UA or DL's business class seats, but not as good as CO's. That includes the brand-new A330-200/300, and some of its 747-400s. However, some of its older planes like the 747-200s or the DC-10s will not get those seats.

USAirways have a row of First Class seats (6 seats) on its new A330 to Europe, but they don't sell a FC ticket. So, those seats are given to their best customers in business class.

Just a quick reminder people........on most airlines in the USA you are not allowed to upgrade at the gate for an international flight. It must be done 24 hours ahead for security reasons.So for those of you &quot;going on your honeymoon&quot;etc.-don't bet on it. Nowdays,everyone seems to &quot;on their honeymoon&quot; overseas.
Most people that are upgraded are done on how much they have paid for their ticket and with their loyalty to that airline (ie FF miles,etc.)Yes folks, there are people that buy business class seats but there are still alot of FF mile people too sitting up in Business.

AAFF

Maybe you read between the lines... In the way I used &quot;please child you make me laugh&quot; is NOT calling you a name. It's called sarcasm, maybe you've heard of it!?! :)

as posted by dutyfree...

<b>on most airlines in the USA you are not allowed to upgrade at the gate for an international flight. It must be done 24 hours ahead for security reasons</b>

so, that brings up couple of questions.

1. You say mot, so some airlines are exempt?

2. Before you answer no.1, stop. This is simply not true. People get upgraded with miles, certs, money or for free up to boarding time, and sometimes, after they boarded. It happens daily on any given airline.

dutyfree and AAFF

I actually agree with what AAFF just said, it's true. There's a first.

We once got upgraded to Business on Alitalia (8.5 years ago and flying out of Milan) just because I asked nicely. We were flying with a 15 month old child and our Chow Chow dog. I wonder if pooch got extra speical attention in the livestock area. Our child slept the entire time. We haven't been that lucky in a long time.