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We were upgraded from coach to business in 2002 on a flight from Minneapolis to Amsterdam. The flight was overbooked and we offered to give up our seats. Ended up they didn't need them and they moved us up to business class.
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skatterfly,
A question, not a comment: real data is often surprising. Unlike expert attorneys who know the answers to questions they ask witnesses in depositions and trials, I have absolutely no idea. M |
taggie
I am not saying "They will give you first class". I am trying to say that it is possible to get it. Everyone was saying "oh you can't get first class on an international flight, espically to Europe". Well my family got it because we were dressed nicely and we were exteremly nice to the flight booker. Looks and age have nothing to do with it, sorry for the mis-understanding. |
OK itsallgood....now I understand a little more clearly what you are saying. That's what this whole thread is about, discussing how different people have got upgrades like you did. Your story certainly reinforces what some people are saying about not dressing like a slob.
My reply to your first post was meant to be tongue in cheek, but I guess you didn't take it that way. Maybe I should've added a :)?? |
Like I say, It's all good! no worries! :) |
As posted by <b>itsallgood</b>,
<i>This is rather wrong what some of you are saying. They will give you first class going to Europe. I got upgraded for no reason at all when I traveled to Paris, France. I was even flying stand-by and when we boarded and there was extra seats in coach. My father makes us dress nicely when we fly just because he thiks its more apporiate. They said if we want they don't care if we go in first class. There was 4 of us at the time and the 4 seats in first class were scattered about. The lady that let us sit in first class even made the other people move so we could sit at least 2 and 2 together. If I would ever fly international again first class is the only way to fly.</i> This little story of yours was almost believable till you made a claim that they asked the high paying first class passengers to move to accomodate you and your family? WHAT????? You must live in some fantasy world! |
Amongst our extended family, here's how we have got our relatively few upgrades.
(i) Paying the full undiscounted economy fare. ("oh this is a full fare ticket - I'll see if we can upgrade you") (ii) Flying home at very short notice due to a family berevement from the other side of the world(the travel agent had apparantly mentioned it to the airline who had put a note on the system) - this is particularly good airline PR stuff. (iii) prebooking my seat, there was a change of aircraft that meant my seat was now in the business class section. They didn't bother to reallocate. Whilst the seat was in the business class section, with plenty of space and recline - it was Economy service throughout. (iv) Paying first class on the longer leg, they upgraded us to first class on the much shorter domestic leg that we hadn't paid for. (v) and once, and only once about 15 years ago my aunt asked the BA check in man, is it a jumbo? - Yes it is madam. Oh could I sit upstairs - let me find out - yes you can. There was a bit of a scandle about 15 years ago with an employee of a major British Airline being arrested for offering upgrades for cash. Most airlines now seem exremely reluctant to upgrade passengers unless there is a blooming good reason why they should. Many a time I've seen a crowded and cramped economy cabin with an empty business class cabin. With the introduction, by many airlines, of a premium economy cabin, I would think that the majority of economy class upgrades in the future, if they happen at all, will be to this cabin and not to business class or first class. |
To AA Frequent Flyer: I don't think that's a fantasy world at all. I've been in Business Class when they ask people to move to accomodate upgraded passengers to sit together. When many travlers are traveling alone they really don't mind moving. Why is that so hard to believe? If it happens in Business, I'm sure it can happen in First Class too.
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Well, you believe what you want to believe, and I know what I know. :-)
International first class (Europe, Asia) fares range anywhere from $5000-10,000 per. Many of these people willing to pay that kind of money have their favorite seats which they are able to reserve and expect to have once boarded. No self respecting airline, or any employee that wants to keep their job would even think about approaching these passengers with that suggestion, especially for people on free upgrades. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. |
When my daughter was 12 she flew from NY to Florida alone to visit family. On the trip back home the flight attendant gave her a seat in First Class. (This was her dream come true.) When she got off the plane she couldn't wait to share the experience with us complete with all the details of the menu and serving style...then she looked at my husband and I and said, "I am never flying coach again!"
...however, she did and still does fly coach. |
once... when my son and i were flying from frankfurt to philadelphia...we were the only two passengers in first. on a jumbo jet. the two of us and 4 flight attendants assigned to the front cabin. coach was packed like sardines. i asked the FA, "why don't you move some of those people up here?" and she said, "we can't. it's not up to us." i found that very strange. once we were up in the air, what difference would it have made.
a tip for upgrades: do dress well, do smile, do be polite, do have a (perhaps even faux) reason like a birthday, anniversary, special meeting in the morning story to tell. you can always use, "i'm on a secret government mission." |
AAFrequent Flyer, I think you're going overboard here. No one is suggesting that an attendant is demanding or even requesting anybody to move. But it is not beyond belief (as I've seen it happen), that an attendant will pass among the passengers who are alone and ask politely if they would consider moving to allow two other passengers to sit together. Believe it or not there are some people in this world (yes even those who pay for first class) who would gladly oblige them. There really are some very nice people in this world, even if you haven't met them.
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Oh, yes, and just for the record, I'm sure you're aware that a very small percentage of the people in First Class actually paid those fares for their tickets. MOST, I repeat MOST, first class tickets are FF upgrades, freebies, or other concessions.
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This debate is often framed by which side of the 'divide' one is on. In other words, did a person pay the full business/first class fare and accordingly adopts an entitlement/territorial attitude; or is one flying on a deeply discounted ticket and looking for a freebie?
As someone who has flown for both business and pleasure for some 25 years, I've been on both sides of the debate. The fact is, many of us flying full first fare don't "pay" for the ticket --- our employers or clients do. I recently flew NYC to London and the fare was approx. $7000 rtn. This is an absurd sum of money particularly when one realizes some coach seats were sold at $399? If I were travelling for pleasure and could not get first/business/upgraded on points I would opt for the $399 even if I could afford the $7000. I would most certainly appreciate an upgrade for "free" but I don't bother asking because, as previous posters have noted, a) the airline KNOWS who you are and will upgrade based on their database and, b) its pretty rare they hand them out nowadays for no good reason because they need to justify/protect the $7000 vs $399 price spread. This is why, when they are oversold and are upgrading, they arbitrarily set a "standard/dress code" that they believe both suits business class, and more importantly, fits in to business/first therefore minimizing risk of "disruption" to the "product" and the people who paid full freight. |
And another thing...
Its worth repeating, be nice to gate agents. The power they have to arbitrarily upgrade (I'm speaking primarily of overseas flights, domestic is still "easier")is virtually gone. But, when there are reasons to upgrade, the gate agent makes the judgement call. Flight attendants only upgrade people on funky airlines like Ecuadoriana or TAP (I've witnessed this) but I've never seen it happen on airlines with, shall we say, more formal attitudes toward business. If your company is a good client of an airline which you'll be flying coach for pleasure on then have your travel rep contact the airline's client rep and ask that you be flagged. Sometime it works. As for airline employees flying "free" upfront, this used to slightly peeve me (especially when they seemed to out number paying passengers) but now my view is so what? It's one of the only remaining perks in a tough industry. |
PS "Patrick" you are wrong. Most people up front are not there because of upgrades or point awards --- they paid. The major airlines have pretty sophisticated allocation models that limit seat availability for such purposes. I speak of overseas flights --- domestic (and US carriers in general) is easier to upgrade with points simply because the seat/product "valuation" is much lower. So, if I were running an airline I'd upgrade full coach fare domestic passengers all day long because the price of doing so and capturing their goodwill is minimal relative to the risk of losing them to a discount airline alternative.
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AAFrequentFlyer
Sorry I couldnt reply I was in Arizona. Actually yes they did move people so my family could sit togethter. They didn't "demand" them to move, they asked and they 'paying' customers didn't care so they moved. You can believe what you want but I know what happened. I AGREE with Patrick. What he and I are saying does happen. |
Cervantes, I can't tell you about all airlines but I KNOW how it works on American. Dozens and dozens of frequent flyers on American who fly back and forth have coupons and upgrades to move to first class. As long as the seats are available they get to use those coupons. So if there are 12 seats in First, as many as 4 or possibly more (more are released for regular FF mileage users if they are still unsold close to flight dates)are on regular FF tickets. Then if only a couple people have purchased full fare First Class tickets, others can use their status or upgrade certificates to move there.
The last time I flew American to London in First, there were a total of 8 people there. The two of us were bumped there from Business because our connections had missed in Miami. There were two couples (four people) who were all flying on FF mileage awards --I know because we all talked at length. The other couple was an American Airlines pilot and his wife who were flying to Europe for a vacation. I can't state this as a fact, but I'd be simply amazed if they paid full fares. So the bottom line is that on that flight ALL passengers in first class were not paying full fare. Maybe that's not the norm, but it happened then. I also knew a very well known tennis pro who used to always book business, but when he was recognized at the airport he was invariably upgraded to First, and according to him so were many celebrities. Those are in addition to the people there with the regular award certificates and the ones with "upgrade upon availability" coupons. |
<b>Patrick</b>
You are talking about getting upgraded from J to F. AA does not offer double upgrades with miles or certs. So, basically you are paying an expensie fare to begin with to have a chance to get upgraded. Do op-ups happen. Yes they do, more from J to F than from Y to J. So, it is possible that few of the flyers up front were upgraded, but they are not flying on cheap fares. <b>itsallgood</b>, In you post you wrote "they <b>made</b> the others move", so that's what I was basing my reply on. What airline were you flying? |
Maybe I didn't make it clear. All eight people in first class on my flight were flying FREE. We had used miles for free business class tickets and got bumped up. The four were using FF miles for FREE First class tickets, and I have little doubt that the pilot and his wife paid nothing.
Many frequent flyers with a lot of miles do what I do -- they don't use their miles to upgrade -- they use them for free tickets, either in Business or First. And even when traveling on a free ticket in Business, they can easily get moved with their elite status to First if seats are available. Other frequent flyers who BUY business class tickets but have elite status are likely to get bumped or use their certificates (coupons or points) to upgrade. |
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