What do people think of Germany?
 

Hi, <BR>being german, I´m very curious about the reputation of Germany especially among people who´ve been here. Is it for you more the country of fairy castles and the Alpes or do tourists consider that it´s a powerful business point in Europe, maybe worldwide? <BR>And how did you like the people while being here? <BR>I´ve made a lot of nice experiences being in the states, made a lot of friends because a lot of people do have a certain relationship whith Germany, whether their ancestors originated from Germany or someone of their family came to Germany being in the Army. <BR>How are your experiences? <BR> <BR>Miriam

Ah, Miriam - you've provided a perfect opportunity for me. I've been living here in Kaiserslautern for the last 5 years, and we have reached a crossroad in that we have to decide if it is now time to go back home. My impressions of Germany and her people vary greatly. I have been challenged to think differently in that I am more aware of my own perceptions and how they can be cloud by "bad" experiences. I've learned that people are people and every region of the world has its fill of good and bad. <BR>As we consider departing in February, I'm a little sad as this has been my home for so long. It is where my husband and I began our marriage and it is the only "home" my son has ever known. As for the land itself, I fell in love with it from the moment we landed in Frankfurt. The fairy tale castles and rivers and mountains have exceeded my imagination. Images of the Rhein and Bavaria are permanently imbedded in my mind. As for the business side of Germany, I've always been fascinated with Germany's role in world politics and business. Unfortunately, I have not taken as much time as I should to learn more. But, I always enjoy a good chat with my "hosts" on topics such as government, work ethics, and cultural differences. <BR>That's all I have time for now, but I look forward to seeing others' responses to your post.

Germany is the land where, when I try to speak their language (which I do fairly well), people will invariably begin speaking English to me. <BR> <BR>Also, when people ask if I am American, and I say "No, I'm from Canada" ... a look of disappointment comes over them. <BR> <BR>My general take on Germany is that it is a beautiful country. I realize that it is an economic power with alot of entrenched engineering knowledge. The people have a rich culture and are generally very polite but distant. I feel more welcome in France, for example. <BR> <BR>I think it would be different in Germany if I came from a less humble background (e.g. academics, business leaders, engineers, are well respected).

For me the answer is both. Germany has been always seen as a financial, industrial and organized country. Many Americans stereotyped Germans as Bavarians because it is a beautiful area and most often visited. Once the wall came down & Berlin could be enjoyed as a complete city, I find it one of the most intriguing in Europe--so much history, culture, friendliness, etc. Having worked with Germans who teach English and live in all areas of Germany, I have a better appreciation for the diversity and strength of your country.

<BR>Miriam, Germany was the first European country we visited, many. many years ago. And we loved it. We've been back 2-3 times, love the food, and thoroughly enjoy the people. The countryside is beautiful, and we especially loved the Rhine area, with all the castles. On our last trip there several years ago, while climbing the various castles, my husband's knees just couldn't handle any more steps, so my friends and I left him in the courtyard while we went climbing. When we came down, we couldn't find him, finally found him in the ticket-taker's booth, taking tickets from a bus tour group. The attendant had had to leave to take another employee who was sick to the doctor, and he had no one to take his place. So my husband volunteered. Neither spoke the other's language, but it all worked out well!

I was stationed in Stuttgart in 1970-71. My wife and I enjoyed our time in Germany and go back frequently. I agree with the other poster. People are people. Germans have been great to us and a few have been rude, but I can also say that about my own country and other countries in Europe. You have a beautiful country.

I think that I started out as a person who loved the land and the castles. As I wanted to learn more, I discovered the economic, political role Germany plays in the European political scene. I am constantly trying to learn more or hear news about the events happening in Germany. I agree that you are going to get good and bad everywhere. I must say that I have had many good and only a few bad experiences. I find the history of the country so interesting and respect the people retoring instead of building new. I admire that they keep their traditions alive still. I enjoy the flowers everywhere and that things are made to be functional and pretty. If anybody is interested, you can subsribe to a free magazine "Deutschland". It has news on Politics, culture, business and science. You can sign up via internet. <BR>Glenn

Sorry, I just found the web site to get a year of the magazine for free, <BR>http://www.publication-deutschland.de/english.html. Enjoy !

I lived in Munich twice, once as a child and once as an adult. I think Germany is a beautiful country and that German is a beautiful language. I'm sorry I never mastered it. As for Germans, to be honest, it depends on the generation. I found a lot of my own generation (20s and 30s) to be quite arrogant. Of course, there are exceptions, but I've noticed this trait again and again, esp. in business relationships. As for the people in their 40s and 50s, this is the post-war generation and they are an interesting lot. They are softer, more hesitant about their place in the world and still appear a bit shell-shocked. But on the whole, I love many things about Germany, the language, the food, the beirgartens, the scenery, Berlin...

<BR>What a question as my hubby and I are both very divided in our feelings for Germany although we have been there now quite a few times. Being Jewish with relatives in our pasts who died/were killed in the war it is a difficult thing as we also think Germany is very attractive to visit with the mountains and villages with the flowers spilling out of the windowsills all over and the cobblestones streets so clean and neat. <BR>My hubby loves the wursts and other foods and just eats his way around and keeps saying how he likes how clean and well ordered everything is but then he makes some comment about the war and his dead grandparents he never even got to meet and that is a conflict. Business is nothing interesting to me but I loved the scenery and the people were 95% nice and my hubby says he feels so drawn to Germany especially to Berlin where he cried when we left and he says he likes hearing German as it reminds him of home as that was the language he first learned to speak so whenever we travel to Europe and leave Germany to go into say France he wants to go back to Germany within a few days so we usually do.

I always thought of Germany as an industrial nation with nothing left of their architectural heritage since they were bombed in WWII. (Germans are partly to blame for this since they will *tell* you how badly they were bombed in WWII. Frankly, if I were German, WWII is not a topic I would ever bring up.) Anyhow, I finally visited Germany, more or less unwillingly. We landed in Koln, took the train down the Rhine and Mosel rivers, ogling castles the whole way, and ended up in a little village on the Mosel just in time for the August wine fests. It was like a setting for Grimm's fairy tales. People were very friendly, even though most of them didn't speak English-- luckily my husband speaks German-- and I had a wonderful time. It completely changed my perception of Germans and Germany!

I have been to Germany twice (Munich & Hamburg) and have really liked it. The people are very nice, the food is good, the standard of living is great, and it's a nice, clean, efficient country. However, since I am Jewish I have to admit that I was reluctant both times to go to Germany and only did b/c both times I had friends in those places. I do not regret going and had some very interesting conversations with Germans that were something like "What is a nice Jewish girl like you doing here in Germany?" (Although I doubt they had ever really met any nice Jewish girls before). I found it very interesting that quite a few 20-something Germans are quite embarrassed about this period in their history and are even eager to leave their country (at least for a time) to live and work somewhere else. I am quite a WWII historian and do realize that the Germans are not solely responsible for this period of history. I plan on going back to Germany, maybe this summer, and drive along the Rhine and down into Switzerland. Now if I can only convince my parents that Germany is a nice country and that they are really leaving quite a hole in their travels by leaving out Germany! <BR> <BR>One more thing: as a New Yorker, I have always been astounded at how Germans really do cross only on the green light and how the stores close so early!

As a decendent of Danish immigrants that left Germany in order to avoid serving in the hated German army, I guess I'm supposed to be anti-German, but after one weekend airline employee fam trip in 1978, I've fallen in love with everything about that country. I've been back over 20 times for varying lengths of time. I love the scenery, the food, the history, the booze and the people. It's a cliche to mention German efficiency, but this stereotype is right on the mark - I set my watch by when the train pulls into the station. The airports and roads are well-marked and maintained. Every single place I've stayed has been clean and everything I've bought has been well-made and sturdy. German beer is the best both in quality and in the quantity you're given (huge). I can tell when I cross from Germany into Austria because the roadside suddenly looks trashy. There is so much that American leaders can learn from Germany as far as the educational system and employee relations. The problem is that we're too stubborn to adopt another country's ideas (such as 6 days per week of school, Gymnasium, 6 weeks of vacation). If only Germany were a bit more affordable, it would be the place I'd most like to retire to.

Miriam, <BR>My only visit to Germany was in 1995 with my then-husband and my parents. <BR>We stayed in the small town of Mitterfells in Bavaria about 20 miles from the Czech border. Being of German descent (on my mother's side), I had always wanted to visit Germany and was thrilled when we chose a place outside the "normal" tourist areas. This is an area where many people don't speak English because not many English speaking touists come their way.My husband was stationed in Germany for 5 months in 1984 and I had studied German for 5 months before we went. I found that as long as I tried to speak German many people were very patient with me. <BR>My most memorable moments: <BR>1)Sitting in a local gasthaus with 4 locals and my German- English dictionary. Tasting the local celery liquor. They were complaining about the "cheap cash-paid labor" crossing the border into Germany from the Czech Republic and other countries. <BR>2) A man at a gas station in Munich talking to us about his visit to Florida the year before. It does seem that the word "Florida" is a universal word similar to "Coka-Cola". <BR>3)Being let in free to tour the Castle Egg (Schloss Egg) as gratidude to the American army that did not bomb the area, but went through in tanks so as not to destroy the ancient buildings. <BR>4) Talking to Father Ermanold at a local Abbey. He told us about how the fathers during WWII were sent to Dachau. He teaches the student to collect stamps to keep them off of drugs and cigarettes. I now mail stamps to him from our trips to add to his collection. <BR>5)My father ( a veteran of WWII) talking to a gentleman who was of the same age on the streets of Mitterfels. <BR>This last experience held me in awe. My father was 70 years old and didn't know a word of German other than what I had taught him on the way over there. The German gentleman knew a few words in English. They seemed to communicate just fine though. They seemed to relate based on their age. They had both put the war behind them seemingly years ago. I know it sounds strange, but that is the way I saw it. <BR>Living in Florida, I come into contact with German tourists all the time. I try to help them out the best I can in order to help them feel welcome in the US. <BR>I hope to return to Germany some day. I really love the people. <BR>Kittie <BR> <BR>

Dear Miriam, <BR> <BR>My husband lived in Bitburg when he was a little boy (his father was in the service) so when he had the opportunity to take a six month assignment in Munich, we jumped at the chance. I had never been to Germany, and never thought much about it one way or the other. My father had been in WWII, but was very young at the time and was stationed in the U.S. He died shortly before our move to Munich, but I thought about him often and wondered what his reaction to our move would have been. I went to the Soviet Union for a month when I was a college student and we were very much in the middle of the cold war. Though my father thought of the Soviet Union as the enemy, what he asked me when I returned was "what are the People like?" This is the important question everywhere, I think. <BR> <BR>I am an at home mother and my background is in community work and the arts, so I am not a business person. My two cents worth on that subject is that I was impressed by how corporations and the government have worked together to support the culture's values. Some of that is no doubt changing as the market place becomes more globalized and as Germany struggles to assimulate East Germany. <BR> <BR>I loved that the shops are not open twenty four hours a day, though it was very frustrating at times. I love that people can actually make a decent living working at a bakery, for instance. Most people I met were reserved but friendly and seemed to appreciate that I used my struggling German. I loved the respect for the environment--bring your own shopping bags, no take-out cups, etc. At my daughter's private school, she was not allowed to bring anything in her cold lunch that would have to be thrown away. I learned how much we Americans value convenience. <BR> <BR>The country is breathtakingly beautiful in many places. We enjoyed the charm of local festivals. We loved the beirgartens and had our own favorite "family friendly" ones. <BR> <BR>We met so many friendly Germans in spite of not knowing the language well. We had our own familiar Obst and Gemuse stands, our favorite Italien restaurant, things that made us quickly feel at home. I feel as though I left a part of me there, and will always consider Munich a home away from home, even though I lived there for such a short time. Now my ears perk up at the mention of all things German. I look forward to looking up the web magazine that Glenn mentioned. Our subscription to Munich Found just expired, and it is too expensive to renew. <BR> <BR>I just returned from a week in Amsterdam and I had to squeeze in a couple of days in Koln and on the Rhine, as the idea of being so close to Germany and not visiting was too much for me to bear. <BR> <BR>

I think much of the bad rep that Germany has from WW2 actually belongs with Austria which got off scott free in the guilt business. <BR>Adolph Hitler was an Austrian as was Kaltenbrunner (the head of the Gestapo) and many. many of the SS members and commandants of the concentration camps. <BR>All the blame was placed on Germany but Austria was very much involved. Now Germany pays reparations to the victims as it has for years but Austria doesn't.

I have studied German history for a long time, and my mother's side of the family originated in Wurtemberg. So far my own travels have been only in the southern half of the country. For the most part, I have found the German people to be fairly friendly and helpful. They do seem much more reserved than the average American (if there is such a thing), but I have had good conversations with many on my travels. I also feel that the Germans have a well-deserved reputation for efficiency - hotel service is great, and yes, the trains do seem to always be right on time. Some of my own experiences there were as part of a business school study abroad program, so I have seen the business and non-business aspects of the country. I also had a chance to visit a German university (Freiburg) and learn about the school system there. Because of my own background as a visiting grad student in business and a former grad student in German history, I have an impression of a very complex Germany. I see Germany as a highly advanced economic and also political power that has done a pretty good job of overcoming its past problems. I have a hard time seeing Germany as a whole as a fairytale land of castles and mountains because of other influences in its history - such as militarism and nationalism. However, I think that the fairytale aspect was and is there in some respects, especially in some areas of the country. <BR> <BR>I do not completely agree with Greg on the German/Austrian issue. Because the tragedies of World War II resulted mostly from the actions of the German state, it deserved most of the blame. Certainly a large number of individual Austrians were heavily involved, but the state of Austria was taken over by force. Sure Hitler was Austrian, but he did what he did in the name of Germany (as a racially based empire that would include Austria among other areas). This is not to say that Austria itself had no role, but Germany was the main actor on a stage that included many accomplices such as Stalin, Mussolini, Hungarian nationalists, Ukrainian camp guards, etc. <BR> <BR>I have a very favorable impression of the Germany that exists today, and as much as I abhor what happened in Nazi Germany, I realize that Germany is a very different place now, and I have thoroughly enjoyed my travels there so far. I do go there for some of the fairytale aspects, but it is the complexity of Germany that fascinates me the most.

I also disagree with Greg over blaming Austria. While Hitler was Austrian, he acted on behalf of Germany. Austria had no choice on whether to become a part of the Third Reich, it was either submit or be overrun. I'm sorry, it peeves me when people blame Austria, I really love that country.. <BR>I have spent lots of time in both Germany and Austria. In many ways I really liked Germany - it's efficiency, dependability, etc. It was the easiest country for me to be in as an American. Bavaria is beautiful and the people friendly, however I spent most my time in the Cologne area. <BR>Austria was different in so many ways, sometimes better and sometimes not. austria is slow and laid back and with the exception of most Viennese, the people are the sweetest. I loved Austria's beauty most of all. Yet at times I wanted them to take a lesson in german efficiency - it felt like no one did anything in Austria but sit around and sip coffee at cafes. Just a couple of observations. <BR>I know you didn't ask about austria, but for me I can't talk about one country without the other.

I just got back from Baden-Baden. I've never been particularly interested in Germany, but I got the chance to go as a side trip from Amsterdam. I LOVE Germany! First of all, it was soooo beautiful. The Black Forest, the castle, the town - everything was charming. The people were very kind. While many of them (the older ones, in particular) were a bit formal, they were helpful and very friendly once I started talking to them.

<BR>This is from the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC web site at http://www.ushmm.org/education/history.html <BR>&lt;On March 11, 1938, Hitler sent his army into Austria and on March 13 the incorporation (Anschluss) of Austria with the German empire (Reich) was proclaimed in Vienna. *Most of the population welcomed the Anschluss* and expressed their fervor in widespread riots and attacks against the Austrian Jews numbering 180,000 (90 percent of whom lived in Vienna).&gt; That's what I have always read, that the Austrians wanted to united with Germany (the overwhelming majority of Austrians that is, not 100% but a very high percentage). BTW in Germany Hitler never got more than 38% of the vote. And Hitler was born in Austria, grew up in Austria and spent most of his life until the late 1920s in V

This is why I said that I didn't completely disagree with what you were saying Greg. In fact, I do agree with much of it. I think we are looking at things in two different ways. The Austrian leadership at the time of the Anschluss tried to maintain independence, but Hitler forced the issue. My own point is that Berlin was the source of the aggression and subsequent murders that took place in Europe. However, the Austrian government that was put in power was a Nazi one, put there at the demands of Germany. This is not to say that there wasn't a growing Nazi party in Austria itself. Hitler was indeed greeted with enthusiasm in Austria, and in fact, the idea of an Anschluss was popular with Austrian Social Democrats before the rise of Hitler. My own conclusion is that you can blame individual Austrians (and many of them), but it is harder to make a case against the Austrian state, since it no longer even existed as it had prior to the Anschluss. As far as Hitler's nationality is concerned, I think it is irrelevant for the most part. Certainly he did get some of his own racial ideas from other Austrian sources, but this was only part of his inspiration. Remember he did fight in the German army in World War I, not the Austrian. Hitler's idea of Germany was not limited to borders, but was based on race. Little of what Hitler did was in the name of Austria, but for the creation of a German Reich that would supposedly encompass all "German" areas. <BR> <BR>I think an even more interesting question is how much blame to put on the French state for things that happened there after 1940. Afterall, the French still governed half of their own country. However, I won't get into that here. <BR> <BR>There were many to blame for what happened in World War II it is true. For example, the Swiss banks. For example, the American government, which certainly knew of the mass exterminations in Poland and elsewhere. <BR> <BR>Sorry, if this got too far off topic, but Greg brought up an interesting issue.

To the original poster, I have to say I too love Germany. It is beautiful, fascinating and complicated. Also admirable in that the country has tried to come to grips with the WWII era. Unlike Austria. In my books, that gives Germany a big edge over Austria, in terms of judging them. On the other hand, I do love visiting Austria, too. Let's admit it, if we only visited perfect countries with perfect inhabitants, none of us would ever go anywhere.

Amen to that Kay! Germany has had more to overcome in reputation than probably any country in Europe's history, but it has done an admirable job. Of course it was helped by the Cold War too, but the attitude change there has been profound.

I went to Germany last year (visitied relatives in a village 45-miles south of Munich). <BR> Being Asian-american (filipino-american) I kinda had some trepidation about going to...please, don't take this personally...the land of skinheads. <BR> Boy, was I wrong! I also visited France & Italy on that same trip...and the Germans were the most friendly people!! Bavaria is really beautiful...and the people were very warm & helpful. I can't wait to go back! <BR> One thing I also noticed: Of the three countries I visited, the Germans looked/dressed the most "American." <BR> I saw more Nike/Michael Jordan/Dallas Cowboy gear there than most malls here in the U.S. Also lots of Levi's and casual clothes...much more casually "dressed-down" than the French & Italians. <BR>

I spent a wonderful vacation in the Bavarian Region about two years ago. I found it to be of breathtaking physical beauty, food was great and people were courteous, but somewhat distant, which is perfectly understandable. However, I have been told by Northern Germans that Bavaria is not "real German culture". So, Miriam, you tell us, are impressions of Bavaria what you consider impressions of Germany? I would like to think so, but apparently not even Germans believe that... <BR> <BR>I do have a hard time with the conspiscous silence that follows any reference to the Holocaust when talking with German people. Apparently it is something that they do not want to be identified with no more. Too late in my opinion...

Germany is a very varied land. As a tourist one tends to see the convivial beer drinking and the fairyland castles like Neuschwanstein. But those surface pleasentries tend to disguise to the casual tourist the sinews of a society that is more socialistic than ours, with unions being stronger and much more active in wage negotiations and in the professions. There is more state control over public utilities and the transportation system than in the USA. The educational system is more strict than ours, particularly at the high school level, with decisions on who is university bound and who is trade school bound coming as early as age 14. Yet young Germans are rebelling against the system with a don't care attitude and their teenagers are just as adept as ours at building walls to separate them from their parents and elders. <BR> <BR>The economic disparity between the Ossis and the Wessis (East and West Germans) in terms of outlook and income status is strong. I saw a cartoon, most un-funny, that described the situation well. The first panel showed two Germans, one West, the other East, divided by the vertical wall. Then the wall came down and, in the second panel, the two were hugging in a euphoric moment. In the third panel, the separation had returned with the Westerner standing on a very high DM symbol well above the lowly Easterner standing on a very short one. <BR>Unemployment is also a problem, with attempts to create jobs resulting in low paying employment, encouraged early retirement and restrictions on the length of a work week. The years of commuist rule in the eastern part will take generations to reverse. <BR> <BR>By the way, someone mentioned Ernst Kaltenbrunner. He was head of the SIPO and the SD, the security police. (If I recall correctly the letters stand for Sicherheitspolizei and Sicherheitsdienst) He certainly was one of the most sinister rascals of history. He condoned and ordered the murders and exportations of Jews and others. He incited the locals to lynch downed American and British flyers. (Not all of them made it to a Stalag to be smuggled out by a Col. Hogan.) Although Kaltenbrunner was perhaps not as infamous in the public domain as Himmler and the Gestapo, he was, in the minds of many, the epitome of evil. This is a grim subject, and I think it time for me to quit this line of thought. <BR> <BR>But for those of us going to Germany, enjoy it. Germans work very hard to have a good time.

I'm not much of a Web browser, but came across this question while looking for information on places in Germany for a trip my husband and I are planning next Fall - to celebrate our 20th anniversary. He was stationed for 2 years in Ansbach (before we were married) and loved the country, so the first European vacation we took was to Germany. When we stopped at a Stube for lunch and a beer, with one big swallow he said he was back 25 years - no beer on earth is better, according to him! After two weeks there, I was in full agreement. <BR> <BR>We liked Germany so much that we went back again 4 years later - and now are planning our third trip. <BR> <BR>We too were in Mitterfels - and very much enjoyed the smallness of it. Living in a large urban area (Metro DC), our travels to and through the small villages in Germany enchanted us the most. The people were invariably friendly and helpful. Lives seemed simpler and more genuine than our frenetic American multi-tasking society!

If a German tourist walked up to you on the street of your hometown and started grilling you about the extermination of the American Indian, would you apologize and appear guilty over events a few generations back?

Actually, I do feel guilty about the way the nations were/are treated. I'm not saying I know what I ought to do about it to make things right, but it irritates me when people insist that some atrocity is nothing to do with them if they're still reaping the benefits of it or maintaining the attitude that allowed it to happen in the first place.

IMHO, Martha's assessment hits the nail on the head. My comment had nothing to do with "grilling" anybody about their history's past, but about the attitude of evasive silence that does seems to sourround the topic whenever brought up in any way, either implicitly or explicitly. I will like to know how to interpret this. Is it shame, indifference, ignorance about that part of their history...? The answer to me has a lot to do with what to think of Germany.

I've had many a business trip to Germany and also lived there in 1993 for one year. I find Germany to be a very beautiful country and the order and precision they bring to many aspects of daily life to be very enjoyable. <BR> <BR>Although, I found many friendly people, in general, they were not as friendly as the people of other countries. Perhaps I should say they liked to mind their own business rather than say unfriendly. I lived in the southern part of Germany in a small town called Weil der Stadt and worked in Boeblingen, 10 miles south of Stuttgart. <BR> <BR>In general, the german people are very intelligent and there is a high priority on education. <BR> <BR>I liked the german cuisine, but found that I could not eat it on a daily basis. Being an American, I found that I missed the diversity found in the US. Fortunately, every small town in the area I lived and worked had at least one italian and chinese restaurant which were excellent. Throw in a yugoslavian restaurant from time-to-time and I survived nicely. <BR> <BR>As for this business about WWII and their conscience, I can only say that it was indeed a dark period in their history and one that I perceived as an embarassment to many. It really never came up in conversation except with one woman I was seeing. This woman was 40 yrs old and she brought up the subject. I should say that the year I was living there, the local tv stations were routinely running at least one WWII movie a week and that the topic of many talk shows was about the war. Surprisingly, I learned from this woman that WWII was not really taught or discussed in the schools and the youth were not really aware of what happened. Of course, they knew there was a war and that germany had lost, but details about the many atrocities were not part of that. For whatever reason, the german government and media were no longer holding back any of the details and this woman told me that many germans were shocked of the news and had a difficult time believing that such things could happen in Germany and by the german people. I was asked about my opinion of Hitler and was told that some german youth considered him a hero. <BR> <BR>I was equally surprised about the reaction of West Germans towards the East Germans after the wall came down. I can tell you that many did not look upon them with brotherly love. At first there was a warm welcome especially since they had a lot of money to spend which was something of a blessing since the germany economy was facing some, new, difficulties. However, with time they turned against the easterners as an additional drain on their social services and considered them very lazy and not really wanting to work. <BR> <BR>I think the 90's have been a troubling time for Germany and it's economy and way of life. Up until this decade, unemployment was essentially nil and they have a history of importing cheap labor to keep their streets and bathrooms clean. They pretty much survive on a single wage earner and their salaries were the highest in the world. Combined with their short work weeks and endless vacation and holiday time, their goods became very uncompetitive on the world markets which was something new to them. Companies tried to make changes, but the very strong trade unions had other ideas. The result was a lot of unrest, attacks on arab laborers, blaming them for the downturn in the economy, etc. I remember BMW finally buying an interest in England to build cars as well as, here, in the US, along with Mercedes. This was a first. Building German cars outside of Germany. The reason was very simple. In Germany, the labor rates were something like $40 per hour and in England and the US, closer to $10. <BR> <BR>I don't know how this has changed life in Germany, if any, since I haven't been back there in 5 years. <BR> <BR>Overall, my impression of Gemany and its people was positive and I have many fond memories of both. Of ourse, their culture and way of life is different. Not all good and not all bad, just different.

Maira and Martha, I guess this is why there will always be liberals and conservatives. Some of us prefer not to flagellate ourselves over our ancestors' mistakes. Horrible things happened everywhere throughout history and we should hopefully learn from the past, but I'm not paying reparations for events I had no control over. It's time to move on.

Thank you all for your opinion. I was very pleased to get so many, mostly positive reactions. <BR>Regarding the Hitler topic, I have to state that everybody in Germany is ashamed of what has happened. My generation, I´m 29, is very much aware of the guilty our country has when we look back what happened to the Jewish people, the homosexuals and the handicapped people. For sure some people are fed up with being blamed for something they weren´t taking part in. To speak for myself, my grandfather was inprisoned in a kind of concentration camp, because someone told the Gestapo that he was a communist, which he wasn´t, he just wasn´t, like the rest of my family in favour of Hitler. <BR>We will never forget that time and take all the blame for it but on the other hand I think that most of the countries have a kind of dark chapter in their history, it´s just not being made public in that way or was long ago. So please, when you visit Germany do understand that some people are fed up with being identified with Hitler, the WW2 and the crimes being comitted during that time. <BR>For Maira: the thing with Bavaria and the Northern part of Germany is more or less a joke like you´ll find it in every country. People in Boston surely make jokes about the people from the South for being slow and lazy and so on...In Germany it´s the same, people from Hamburg are said to be cold, to have no humour and to talk little. People from Bavaria are said to be loud, have no manners and take life easy. I live inbetween(Frankfurt), so luckily I´m able to make jokes about both. Don´t take it too serious... <BR>I hope that, although my English isn´t very good everybody understand what I wanted to say. <BR>Have much fun while you´re here and by saying that I offer my help if you have any problems. <BR> <BR>Kind regards <BR> <BR>Miriam

<BR>My point Bob Brown about bringing up people like Kaltenbrunner was to show that *Austria* should assume much of the guilt for the Nazi crimes that is laid at the feet only of Germany. Kaltenbrunner was an *Austrian* as was Hilter himself. As I read in a news story about Netanyahu of Israel visiting Austria last year::&lt; For most of the post-war era Austria sought to present itself as the first victim of Hitler's aggression. That stance changed only in 1993 when then-chancellor Franz Vranitzky acknowledged during a visit to Israel that Austrians had not only been victims but also "willing servants of Nazism." <BR> Austrian President Thomas Klestil visited Israel in November 1994 and recognised that * many of the worst perpetrators of the Nazi regime were Austrians*.&gt;This quote is from http://www.codoh.com/newsdesk/970921.HTML I cannot tell you how much it annoys me to see the blame all go to Germany when Austria has so much gulit it refuses to acknowledge. Austria has never paid any reperations to its victims. Hilter got most of his Anti-Semitic ideas when a youth living in Vienna from Georg Ritter von Schonerer who was an infamous Austrian hater of all that is J

Miriam, thank you for your gracious posting. My son lives in Hanau (near Frankfurt) and I have enjoyed visiting as many parts of Germany as I can comfortably fit into my three trips to your country, so far. More are planned. The bank towers of Frankfurt amazed me, even though I've been to New York.

<BR>Hi Miriam, <BR> <BR>Well, I've never been to Germany, but have shared a house in England with two visiting Germans who were students (One was working in the Arts). <BR> <BR>They both had brilliant humour and great tastes in Food!! <BR>By the way, I hope to get a job in Germany soon, wish me luck guys!! <BR> <BR>H.

What a wonderful discussion. Despite my 100% German nationality, I've never had any burning desire to visit Germany. In the 20 minutes or so that it's taken me to read through this forum, that has totally changed. I think it will have to move way up on our "hope-to" list. Thanks to all of you for sharing so much interesting info.

Because the Germans are taking part in bringing peace to Kosovo, I am more than willing to change my mind about them as a nation. For the past five decades, Germany has sat on the sidelines, willing to let America and its NATO allies shoulder the heavy lifting. At long last, Gemany the economic power is beginning to play its rightful role as Germany a bringer of stability to Europe. This will have its costs, not only in marks but also in the lives of its people. I for one have become very tired of Germans being forever critical of America and not willing to lend a hand themselves. Now that their laws have at long last been changed, I salute this long-overdue assistance.

Coming from a school girl's perspective..i"ve never thought much of Germany because in school, we never learn about its beautiful people, castles and land - we only learn about Hitler and the Nazis'. However, my opinion changed when i met this guy from Germany while i was in england a few months ago. He was the nicest person i've ever met - and his pictures had me yerning and anticipating visiting Germany. I think Germany would be a wonderful place to visit - i cant wait.

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