We need to elect designated "nay-sayers"
 

We all know that there are constant new threads about "Can I do this in X number of days"?

Instead of all of us wasting our valuable electronic ink, we need to elect the most abrasive, yet knowledgeable people to do a standardized "You gotta be kidding me" response.

Who wants to volunteer and name the countries-cities-regions you wish to be the Supreme Voice for? We will all acknowledge the elected Poo-bah's prowess and supreme power to guide, insult, ignore and/or approve said answer to said idiotic questions.

We should also jointly develop a standardized response to said idiotic questions, where the Supreme Regional Poo-bah only has to insert the requested names and/or dates.

dave

:-)

Are you kidding me?

There must be close to a dozen self-appointed, insulting, swaggering Travel Mommies and your least favorite Uncle Braggart who hand around Fodor's pouncing on every naive itinerary just to hoot and holler and call in the crowd to pile on, and slap each other on the back guffawing.

I'm sure all the jerks will soon stampede in to take up your offer.

The real question is: Have they ever got anything else to offer but their their bus-tour ideas for travel?

I don't think so.

Sorry you feel a need to be one of them.

I don't, and I think they've cost a lot of travelers a lot of money and joy.

I believe these positions are already filled :-)

with respect, zeppole, I just checked the most recent "if it's tuesday it must be amsterdam" thread, and found that you too had chimed in, though to be fair, you were not as vociferous as some.

and I can't agree that the "nay-sayers" have cost a lot of travellers a lot of money and joy. on the contrary, if they follow the usually sound and virtually always well-meant well-meant advice, they should save money and have a lot more fun. apart from anything else, moving around constantly is expensive - fares/fuel, hotels rather than apartments, meals out all the time.

but you do make a good point in that sometimes, the nay-sayers do have fun at the OP's expense.

after all, they're only human.

I chuckled at Dave's OP. Its a sort of travel UN and we could have an alphabetical rotating chair.

Thing to remember is that these posters do ask, so you cant really complain when people answer honestly, even if it is a little abrasive.

Well, I've done the standard dialogue already and used it on another thread. It requires only one word substitution to turn it into a location-specific piece of travel advice, and I expect profound thanks from all -- I've saved you heaps of time.

The dialogue runs like this:
I’m thinking of a holiday at pick-a-place. Is hotel XXX any good? Can I get a bus from the airport? What sort of food do they eat there?

Yep, you can get a bus.

The national dish of pick-a-place is deep fried albatross.

The bus runs every ten minutes.

It’s not deep fried albatross, it’s baked albatross, with traditional herbs.

The bus is way below my price point. I use the helicopter transfer. And I’d not be seen dead at pick-a-place anyway.

Albatross tasted like chicken to me, or maybe it was polenta.

I found that the people on the helicopter were all wearing Crocs. The Hummer limo was better for me.

I ordered the albatross, and I think they served seagull

Limo-schimo. I use the private helicopter. Roberto drives it.

That was not seagull, they only serve juvenile albatross. If you can’t tell the difference, then you should stick to polenta.

I’ve given up on the helicopter – I maintain a steam launch and crew to transport me to my hotel.

I like Hotel XXX – good staff.

I found a hair in the bathtub at Hotel XXX. Complained, negotiations continuing.

There’s no way that the previous poster at 3:00 AM GMT maintains a steam launch. Pick-a-place is in a desert.

I found a dead body in the bathtub at Hotel YYY. It’s with my lawyers – hotel would not change my room, so I could not take a bath. Had to use the shower stall.

Pick-a-place might be in a desert, but before I arrive they flood the irrigation canals, to float my boat.

I found a dead elephant in the jacuzzi when I rented the penthouse at pick-a-place. Issue is with the United Nations

I’d never take a vacation at pick-a-place.

I’d never take a vacation anywhere.

I take vacations fifty five weeks a year.

I get paid to take vacations.

Getting paid to take vacations is so tacky – I take vacations for free.

I donate my vacations to the poor people of Colombia.

There are no poor people in Colombia – they are all drug barons.

Christopher Colombia discovered America.

Snork! Very amusing. My only critique is that you have been far too polite. Not a 'numpty' to be seen from start to finish!

What we really need is a post that gets kept at the top of the list all the time that says things like: every time you change locations you lose at least half a day, and maybe a whole day: you cannot see all the must-sees in (City) in one day: (Country) is not a theme park: etc.

I'm sure there are other things that need to be said over and over. Aside from ttt-ing such a thread endlessly, I don't know how you can reach the newbies. It should be permanently posted at the top and should be titled: NEWBIES!! READ THIS BEFORE POSTING11 (Yes, shouting)

Sometimes you can't impart experience...it has to be learned.
I hope our friend going on her honeymoon posts a trip report - to either rebut (refudiate?) or praise the responders

That being said...because I would not do a trip a certain way, does not mean the SHE might not enjoy it highly.

How does one distinguish between a "hign energy" trip and a "deluded" trip?

I don't believe in following anyone's itinerary/
Read a travel book and select where, what you want to see.
Your personal travel and experiences will be much more rewarding.

A high energy trip is physically possible - even if not the way many of us would choose to travel.

A deluded trip is one in which the OP has not checked out train schedules, thinks you can "see" a city in 2 hours, and takes no account at all of the basic facts of life (a plane may land late, there may be a train delay - or horrors a strike, and you cannot get to an island without taking a boat or a plane).

My favorite is the itineraries that count each day 3 or even 4 times.

Day 1 - a sightseeing day when you wake up there
Day 2 - a travel day when you're going from one place to another
Day 3 - a sightseeing day when you arrive there after the journey
Day 4 - when you leave you luggage in the train station and see a third city in the 2 hours between trains

Now, this may be possible (but silly) if the entire trip is 2 hours, but I;'ve seen this when the rail journey was 7 or 8 hours or more

I've never understood if the poster is doing this deliberately - or actually thinks these are different days

Wow...I am a little offended by this. I am sure that you guys get a lot of the same questions. I am also sure that you get tired of answering the same questions over and over. I have an idea--instead of being Royal you-know-what's why don't you just not answer at all?? Y get involved in someone's post or answer their question if it bothers you so? I had no idea. I thought this was a place for travelers to come and get questions answered. I'm sure that there are ppl that would gladly answer questions w/o so much complaining. Now that I have seen this, I suppose I will not be asking anymore questions about my trip. Thank you for the input so far, but I would hate to waste anymore electronic ink on any idiotic questions I may have. I must be mistaken... i didn't know that everyone, everywhere has been and will go back to Europe 40 times in their lives. I am very impressed and happy for those of you that travel Europe frequently, but some of us do not live in Europe and get to see it that often. I'm saddened by this post/comment. I enjoyed asking questions and getting back advice. I guess more times than not you're on your own. Glad I saw this before I got mocked or ridiculed publicly. Depressing i must say.

tds0212, I hope this hasn't put you off about asking questions. I cannot speak for anyone except myself but my impression is that people are weary of posters asking questions w/o having done any homework themselves. It's important to get a good guide book and a good map of the country or city you want to visit, read it, and then ask questions. And also to use the Search function on this site.

Often new posters will ask about the "best" restaurant or hotel in Paris, the best village in Provence, and so on, as though the trip must be "ideal" and therefore depends upon getting "the best", whatever that means to each individual. How bad can "good" be? Must it be "the best"? It really doesn't have to do with how many times one has been to Europe or wherever, but, IMO, it's the spirit in which he/she is seeking knowledge and how much he/she is willing to do for him/herself.

And we all answer according to our values and preferences: eg, for me a 3 or 4 day first trip to Paris would not include Versailles or Giverny or any place outside the city, but for someone who has dreamed of going there since forever, that's the thing to do.

I haven't read any of your other posts, and I'm just responding to the one above.

'Nuff said; probably too much!

Don't despair tds0212, I joined fodor's about 3 years ago as I began traveling overseas again after many years of domestic vacations as we raised our kids, and I have received so much wonderful advice, information and sometimes cranky admonishments. I enjoy all the personalities that love to give advice, talk about their travels and share information about life off the tourist track. It has really enriched our vacations for the last 3 years and I don't think our travels would have been as interesting or as enjoyable without all the wonderful, sometimes discordant voices from Fodor's message boards.

I wish someone had told me how hot it is Athens. I sure don't need this coat.

And we found the Acropolis if anyone needs directions.

PS we are finding out that teenagers like to sleep in. I figure the mornings on this trip are costing us $8k to see zero sites. How come nobody told us this would happen?

Maybe we can get special dispensation for Fodor's for which we can use the following:

"What are you effing nuts?"

If that fails, we can always say, "Sounds like a great trip, but you should add Johnannesburg."

________________________

Cold-

Look at this way. When they are sleeping, they are not telling you how bored they are.

tds0212, don't be put off by this - it is meant as fun (I hope).

It is so much nicer to help people who have done some of their own research first though, not just seemingly booked a flight to a random European destination, with no idea what there is to do there, and who then expect others to do their research for them.

(What a long sentence! I'm sure I could have formulated that better, sorry!)

I greatly enjoy the posts that say "I'm leaving for Europe next Tuesday, what do not miss things should I take in?"
And equally as much the helpful posters who manage to critique everything about someone's question including spelling, language, their choice of arrival cities and do they hate their mother, but never answer even one thing.

Haha, morrisken, I like your post.

I've always felt a bit odd amongst all these planners as I normally take off for my European City of choice armed with an eye witness guide some enthusiasm, but very little else in terms of preparation. I like to 'discover'. Spose its easier for me to go back for the stuff I miss.

>I've done the standard dialogue already......<

Very good, Peter
................................................
Hi MP,

>How does one distinguish between a "hign energy" trip and a "deluded" trip?<

If I could have done it when I was 35, it's "high energy".

If it would have wiped me out when I was 20, it's "deluded".
.................................................. ...
Hey tds,

>I am a little offended by this. .....<

You oughtn't be. There's nothing personal here. It's just some of the older crowd having fun.

((I))

Hey D,

If nominated, I shall not run. If elected, I shall not serve.

((I))

Yes folks, this is all meant as a joke. I just wanted to see what the responses were. Many are really funny.

dave

daveesl wrote: "Many are really funny."

Sadly, some are not.

I think we should just limit our replies to the itinerary questions to one sentence.

What a fun thread, daveesl, to read with my breakfast coffee. Thanks.

I just made my husband leave his Financial Times to read Aduchamps1 comments:

<<Maybe we can get special dispensation for Fodor's for which we can use the following:

"What are you effing nuts?"

If that fails, we can always say, "Sounds like a great trip, but you should add Johnannesburg.">>

Ira, You started me thinking about the age range, grouping of posters here. Scary to think that if they are 50 or under, they'd probably have no idea of the historical reference in "If nominated..." Yikes.

Will there be a senate hearing on this nomination? I'm a bit concerned about answering the 'did you wear white running shoes?' question.

<<Will there be a senate hearing >>

Well be clear everyone on our side of the Atlantic will refuse to attend. It was a Scottish decision and a totally separate matter from anything I/ we have ever ever said, done or thought. Ever.

I'm woried if news leaks out that Adidas has given me some money...harmless..really.

Coincidence too that my fanny pack has three white stripes.

The standard reply to "Can I do this in X number of days"? is
"how the hell should we know? We cannot even agree among ourselves"

tds0212: Please don't be offended. You actually listened to the advice you were given and are also adjusting your itinerary and continuing your research - with plenty of time to spare as you started early. The frustration lies with some posters who ask for advice on something totally insane they plan to do next month and then refuse to take it. They don't really seem to want advice, but a stamp of approval. They then become upset when someone won't tell them how to continue with their madness.

I think daveesi started this thread for the regulars to vent with humor. You'll notice that he was simultaneously poking fun at the regulars, too. Good show.

<<How does one distinguish between a "hign energy" trip and a "deluded" trip?

Dunno, b/c it's personal preference. Sometimes I can't distinguish "helpful advice" from "obnoxious cranky replies".

I've been traveling in a manner that many of you think is too fast-paced, but it definitely works for me and my family. We like to see and do a lot, and I understand that's not everyone's preference. But that doesn't mean I don't have a great time on my travels, or that I'm doing it "wrong".

I'm confused by the assertion that every time you check in and out of a hotel, you waste 1/2 day. It takes us about an hr. to pack up, check out and get on our way. At our next place, it takes about another hour to locate our hotel, check in and bring our things up to the room.

If we made several day trips instead, we would easily be spending that much time driving to the destination and back.

<<They don't really seem to want advice, but a stamp of approval.

Sometimes, I do want advice on what I have planned, but instead I've been told not to drive, but to rent a car; or to skip a site that I wanted to see; etc.

If I have budgeted 2 hrs. for a drive that takes 4 hrs, telling me that is most appreciated. But, if I have planned on driving, and you tell me that I should take the train (which takes 2x as long) and means I have to skip a site that I wanted to see - I would actually appreciate advice on driving to the destination that I would like to visit.

That said, I know the OP is referring to proposed trips that really are not reasonable geographically. For that, I have to agree with tds - if it is so exasperating to respond, just save yourself the aggravation and skip it. tds, I'm sorry you felt uncomfortable with posting.

I love this thread!

By the way, when I posted "going to Scandinavia, what is there to see" questions that were clearly asking for silly answers, the very first answer was serious! :)

Maybe we need more of this type of threads?

Karen,

The 1/2 day check-in/check-out is an interesting point.

Last time I went to Paris I landed at 10:05, with only carry-on luggage. Had a little dejeuner at CDG. I was at my hotel room in the 16th by 12:15. I had been before so getting to RER, into city, switching to Metro was not a big deal.

Leaving I took Metro to Montparnasse at 7:30 AM, Air France bus to CDG. I was in line at US Air by 10:30.

So using a rough estimate, it took me a morning each time. If I did not know the city, would have been more.

If I had kids or checked luggage...

Without knowing details, a worst case of 3-4hrs is not unreasonable.

Last time I went to Lyon, I got off the train, crossed parking lot and entered my hotel.

I'm confused by the assertion that every time you check in and out of a hotel, you waste 1/2 day. It takes us about an hr. to pack up, check out and get on our way. At our next place, it takes about another hour to locate our hotel, check in and bring our things up to the room.>>

it's not so much wasting, as taking at least 1/2 day to change locations. if you are only on holiday for, say, 14 days, and you move on every other day, that's at last 1/4 of your trip just spent on travelling from place to place. add in the 1/3 that you're asleep, and it doesn't leave much time for actually doing, seeing, eating, watching..

this is particularly acute when the mode of travel is plane - obviously you can see things as you go along if you're driving or on the train.

of course you can spend the same amount of time on a day trip, but then if you're in a place for 3 days, you wouldn't normally spend all of them doing day trips, would you?

Sorry if I sounded a bit cranky in my above post...I understand that ppl need to vent, but for some reason I took this a little personal. I guess bc I am a first time European traveler, probably asked some "ignorant" questions, and felt lost by the thought of going to such a large place. Anyhoo...continue on w your jokes--i'm over being offended ;) **Not that I was stopping you in the first place! haha!**

I will be fully involved w my guidebook for awhile...and instead of posting "ignorant" questions, maybe I can just find other ppl who have already posted the same question I may have and read what you say to them!! I'll figure my way around all you guys one way or another :)

And sap...you are right, I have recieved some excellent and fabulous advice thus far. Some I may not have recieved otherwise. So there! I'm done.

Oh...just one more thing. Can anyone tell me the "best, must see" places for all of London, Paris, and Amsterdam?? Oh yeah, and how do you all REALLY feel about me adding in just ONE more place? I mean after all, I have two weeks. Nevermind getting there, getting home, and getting from here to there. I think I have PLENTY of time to see it ALL!!! Don't you? :)

Sorry I had to throw it in there. I DO have a sense of humor, most of the time. My only excuse is it was late, I was tired, and still overwhelmed by the decisions I have to make. Hope everyone has a lovely day! :) (I hope I'm using enough smiley faces for everyone to enjoy) :) :) :)

tds,
we were all in your shoes at one time. Of course, back then the internet was shiny new :)

Think of it as a buffet...you have all this input, choose what satisfies your needs (but don't forget your greens and fruits!)

Once you've been here long enough you appreciate that there are varying opinions, but all (usually) is offered in otder to help. Travel an be passionate!

"You are all pompous b@stards!" he screamed at the mirror

Sometimes when I read a "lame" question posted I try to guess who the first person to post will be and what "advice" the OP will get. And I've read many posts from certain folks that never contain any real travel advice, just put downs and no help answers. I've give a few bits of helpful info at times. But not much compared to so many here.