We leave Sunday--Passport expires 86 days after return
 

Oh Crap! I just saw a recent posting on this, and it was the first we've heard of it. My husbands passport expires 86 days after our return date. We leave for Italy on Sunday (today is Thursday).
Although we contacted the US Department of State and they said everything was fine, the Italian Consulate official said we have to have our passport renewed.
Our county clerk of courts said this was "impossible".
Any advice?

Don't worry about it. Have fun. Do it when you get back.

The previous poster might not have fully understood what the Italian Consulate told you to do, plus the potential ramifications of not doing so. That is, they may turn you around to go back when you arrive at the Italian port-of-entry.

This has not happended to me, but isn't there a fast passport renewal (48-hrs) process?

There is a fast passport renewal but I seriously doubt you need to do this now.

As to the "national ramifications"....hmmmm, I doubt there will be any international incidents over this.

Have a wonderful trip.

Hi marci,

When we had a similar situation, we had no problem.

The Italian Embassy in DC said that as long as your passport still has 90 days on it on the day you leave it is OK.

>Our county clerk of courts said this was "impossible".<

Humph! It can be done in less than a week, if necessary.

((I))

It can be done in a day, if necessary. We live in Alabama and a friend drove to New Orleans, four hours away, and came home with her new pasport that afternoon.

Our son said several people in his company (in Birmingham) have done the same.

I suppose it depends upon how close you live to whatever office handles that sort of thing.

Byrd

The question has never really been whether or not it can be done since we all know that it can; rather whether or not you believe what the US Sate department says or the Italian Consular Official...

So, what's your thinking?

It's one thing to have a bureaucrat say that you must renew, it could be just fine when you approach the Italian customs agent upon arrival.

I've had a similar situation when I arrived in Brazil, and found that breaking down in tears works wonders, but then I was a teenage girl at the time, so that might not work for your husband. ;)

If you can haul a** to a processing place, I'd do it just to avoid the possibility that you get a customs agent who's having a bad day and wants to make yours worse. I'm in Denver and my passport application got shipped to me from Seattle, so I'd have no choice at this point but to go with the one I have and pray it works.

Live and learn.

Jules

There are companies that do 24 or 48 hour service for a fee. I've used the one in Atlanta before.

I would recheck with the Italian Consulate - or have Plan B. Provence is lovely.

Yes, whatever you do please do not rely on the "breaking down in tears" routine since it is oh so "women are pieces of meat to be used accordingly and then discarded" era....

Intrepid -- Just so you know, I only did it as a last resort. I have two passports, as I'm a dual national (born in Brazil to American parents), and happened to be going to Brazil as an exchange student. They saw I had two passports (they had to see both to see why I lacked Portuguese skills and a visa stamp in my Brazilian one). Of course it's a trap, since owning two passports is illegal in some countries...like Brazil. They wanted me to *CHOOSE A COUNTRY* -- and I knew that if I chose Brazil, I'd never go home, and if I chose the US, I'd be back on the next plane since I needed a visa if I was not a Brazilian national.

I think tears were in order. ;)

And by the way, it worked. Like a charm. The guy just waved me in since he didn't want to deal with the faucets.

For the OP's husband, it is clearly NOT okay. Like ira says, you need 90 days remaining on your passport <b>when you leave Italy.</b> And unless he's taking a ship to get back to the US, he's not in compliance.

Of course, chances are nobody will care, but what if he was asked when entering Italy (or one of the Schengen countries) when he's leaving? Is he prepared to lie? Again, chances are nothing will happen, but will he and should he take the chance?

I read Ira's post as being 90 days on it when you leave (depart) from the USA! Maybe Ira needs to clarify.

It would be next to impossible to get your new passport at this time. WE had a similar situation for travel last month,,,but discovered it 6 weeks prior , so were able to get our new passports in time.'
However, I truly think you will be safe, ....his passport will STILL be valid on the dates you travel.. and how is one to really know about the 90 days unless they happen to come across it when reading an article or posting.
I called all around (we were visiting 3 countries, GErmany, Austria, Italy, but arrival and departure Germany.)..and got several different answers, so it seems a little &quot;unsure&quot; on the part of the cousulates even.

You have no choice but to go and have a good time, and I feel like you will be fine. He HAS a valid passport...and as far as you know, that is GOOD! right.?

It is not a problem as I have said before. I had a similar situation and only 50 days on my passport. And yes it was after 9-11. It is not a problem. What is the expiration date for anyway? Do you think the Italians won't let you out of the country if you only have 86 days left on your passport? My guess is that they will.

We live in upstate NY and one year my son's passport renewal didn't seem like it would get here in time. (Thanks to our local congressman, we got it with a day or two to spare!) But it looked like my husband and son were going to have to drive to Boston or NYC to the federal office, where (we were assured) it could be done THAT day. I don't think it can be done at the county level.

Call these guys and see what they say -
A International Visa Services

They've done rush renewed passports for friends before. Passports and visas are their business.

Ask them what they think about you being able to travel to Italy. If they think there is a problem, they may know of an option near you.

The fees are pricey, but they can do the job. You don't have a lot of time to ponder. As I understand it, the passports are FedEx'd to the courier service that walks it through the process in Miami - but that might not be accurate. Ask them. They will know a) if there is a problem b) how to fix it if there is and c) whether or not it's too late to do anything about it.

When I googled I found two other passport services that say they offer guaranteed 24 hour service - but I know the service in the above post can do the job.

Forgot to give you the number -
800-627-1112

Found the website - www.visalady.com

T.I.S. Inc. International Visa Service
416 Hammond Drive, NE
Atllanta, GA 30328

No, I have no connection with them - they've just provided good service in the past

Here's from the website FAQ page (hope it's okay to cut and paste since I provided the link -

Many young and new employees in consulates have difficulty understanding regional accents and dialects spoke in the United States. Misunderstands about what is needed and the requirements for that type of visa is a common complaint of U.S. visa applicants.

Previous posters are right. The person at the consulate may not have accurately understood the situation.

Call these foks and see what they say - their business is knowing what's going on with passports and visas.

Here's a statement from the visaconnection web site:

Passports are valid immediately upon being issued but for most countries that you are applying for a visa to visit they want to see at least 6 months extra validity on your passport after you leave their country.

Not clear whether this applies to countries for which you do NOT need a visa, but I've read that the U.S. doesn't like citizens to leave if their passport expires within 6 months.

The US will not let you into the country if your passport expires within 6 months. 90 days is quite reasonable!
Can they not do an emergency extension?

The problem is not the US. A US passort is valid to enter the US until the day it runs out.'
That's why the State Department said that - they don;t care.

The problem is that Italy requires you to have 90 days left on your passport to enter the country (not leave it). The chances of this being a problem are small for the average tourist - but it is possible (extremely unlikely but possible) for Italian Immigration to turn you away if they notice this.

Why risk this? Just renew immediatey on an emergency basis.

(As for lack of knowledge being an excuse - this is like telling the cop you didn;t see the stop sign - it's your problem - not his.)

Thanks for the replies. I've been away from my desk all day...

My husband spoke with the state department today to two different people and they said they had never heard of such a thing. Their advice was if it did end up being a problem then go to, or call the embassy when we arrive in Italy (presumably when we encounter the problem) and they will validate his passport at that time.

I appears our other choice would be to make a 6 hour drive to Miami tonight, and try to get an appointment with the expediation service.

As of yet I have not been able to research the links and services mentioned in this thread.

Quote:
Why risk this? Just renew immediatey on an emergency basis.
&lt;&lt;end quote&gt;&gt;

I just want to clarify that when I originally posted this morning that I was not aware, (nor were they are my county's clerk of courts office) that there was a way to renew before we leave for our trip on Sunday.

You need to make a call and decide what to do in time for a FedEx pickup today - if you choose to use a service.

I'd really call the 800# and see what they say. I bet they'd have an answer for you in two minutes.

I have recently return from a European trip where I traveled on a passport that expires in 4 monthes. No one cared the slightest. In fact, the only person who even noticed a clerk at the airport.

It really helps to understand why countries have this rule. Visitors can stay in most places for up to 6 monthes. If your passport expires during this time, they may have a very hard time sending back home without a valid passport. It is a simple method for illegal immagrants to stay in a country.

If you look middle class or better and have a return ticket in hand, no one will care about your passport expiration date. Rules like this are not there to harass people like you. Like many immigrations laws, they only exist to be used to restric certain types of people - the ones who are likely to stay illegally. If you are obviouslty not in this group, there is no problem. Of course, individual immigrations officers could decide to give you a hard time if they want.

&quot; Their advice was if it did end up being a problem then go to, or call the embassy when we arrive in Italy (presumably when we encounter the problem) and they will validate his passport at that time.&quot;

This is stupid advice sine if you have any problem, you will turned around at passport control and not allowed into Italy.

Quote:
I'd really call the 800# and see what they say. I bet they'd have an answer for you in two minutes.
&lt;&lt;end quote&gt;&gt;

Thanks for your advice. I just got off the phone with them. They were very convincing that this was an extreme problem.
Their fee for this transaction would be $500, plus the government fee of $127. We are still deciding what to do. We just really hadn't planned to spend this extra $$. We could save a couple of hundred bucks (but not our sanity) if we drove to Miami tonight...
We are pretty conservative people (and I'm pregnant) so I don't think either of us would sleep well with the &quot;don't worry about it, cross that bridge if you have to&quot; method of dealing.
Thanks again for all your advice.

If you can't get While-U-Wait passport renewal service, how about an exchange of e-mails with the Italian consulate?

Just say you are traveling to Italy on 22.5.2005 and your passport expires on (dd.mm.yyyy*), and ask if this is permissible.

If you've got authorization in writing, it should be enough to make your case should an immigration bureaucrat hassle you.

* Don't mention the 86 days - just give the dd/mm/yyyy.

I would take a few minutes to check expediting services, as that price is quite high. Here are random examples (I have no personal recommendation):

http://www.americanpassport.com/Passport_Renewal.html
1 day processing = $179 + govt fees

http://www.passportsandvisas.com/passport/renewal.asp
1 day processing = $159 + govt fees

It's up to Italian immigration officials to decide whether or not to enforce their own rules. The State Dept doesn't have authority when it comes to US citizens entering another country.

I would try to get clarification as to whether the 90 day validity requirement is from the day you enter or leave Italy. If it's from the date you enter, your husband's passport should be OK as you stated it expires 86 days after your return.

For future reference, there are many countries that require a minimum of 6 months validity on your passport to enter.

Hi Marci, I don't know if you will see this or not but I have a quetion. Have you called the airline that you will be using to fly to Italy. I was told by a Northwest Supervisor some months ago that it is the responsibility of the airline to make sure all international passenger documents are in proper order before they are allowed to board the plane (to leave the US). I was told if the documentation was not in order the passenger is not allowed to board.

Your county clerk of courts would not be the person to know all the rules regarding this situation.

I agree with other posters that it is not a case of being able to return to the US, it is a matter can you enter Italy.

What a mess! I am so sorry, this could happen to any of us. I guess if I were in your shoes I would pay that horrendous fee to have them get the passport renewed. A 12 hour roundtrip drive (especially with you being pregnant) right before you leave for Italy sounds dreadful.

My best wishes to you that you get this situation resolved. I hope you have a moment to post back here again before you leave, to let us know the end results. Take care. And have a beautiful time in Italy!

Marci,

I have been reading this post and the one thing that came to my mind was as loveitaly says - the Airline.

Do please check with the airline because they could stop you leaving the country.

I know absolutly nothing about US passports but the fee you have been quoted seems outrageous. Here in the UK, where everything costs double anywhere else, it costs &pound;42 for a passport with delivery in 3 weeks and &pound;85 for collection within 24 hours.

Please check that you have got the correct information and the very best of luck.

I've been googling all over the place, and all I can find is that Italy requires a passport to be valid for 90 days after <u>entry</u> - but this is for UK residents.

I can't imagine they have different rules for different countries, but since there are numerous Italian consulates with published e-mail addresses, I'd send the question to all of them (send separate messages so they don't know you're shotgunning) and take any positive replies with you. Shred any negative responses.

does anyone know of ONE case of being turned away over this date requirement?

i travel on a U.S passport ALL the time in europe, ( i live here) and have NEVER worried about this ( just read about it) as i always have a return ticket for a few days/week later.

am interested in authentic first hand story of a turn-away.

My ticket for my next trip is to Spain, not Italy - but the text on the ticket clearly states that I must have six months remaining on my passport. I think the original poster should check to see if the tickets say anything, because as mentioned the airline might be the one to enforce the &quot;no-fly&quot; restriction. If the tickets don't say anything, there's still the Italian officials to worry about - and it is Italian officials who will be letting you in or not.

The US passport office does issue a temporary travel document which you can use in lieu of your passport while it is being processed. At least that's what they told me.

The suggestion to go to the embassy upon arrival if there is a problem, doesn't make sense to me... because *IF* they choose to enforce a 90 day rule you would not be allowed in to the country, so how could you get to the embassy? Possibly by telephone but this seems like a bit of a stretch.

Hopefully this has been worked out already, but I go with the suggestion of checking with your airlines.

And we didn't even <b> get &lt;/B/&gt; to the &quot;can only fly during a certain period of the pregnancy&quot; issue.

Hopefully this all worked out for the best; these are the instances when it really is <b> nice </b> if the original poster reports the final outcome.</b>