Warwick or York or ???????
 

I am hoping that my husband and I will be spending some time in England with my brother and his wife, and their two daughters. The girls are 15 and 18. We would be there late June, early July 2012 for 10-14 days.

We would spend 5-7 days in an apartment in London, without a car. We would then take a train to a town we could use as a base, so they could see a little more of the countryside. I had first thought to go to York as my oldest niece is very interested in history. My most recent thought is to train instead to Warwick. My younger niece would love the Castle, and we could also rent a car for a few days so we could take a day trip or two to the Cotswolds. Then return the rental car and take the train back to Heathrow.

Thoughts on Warwick vs York?

I replied on your other thread with a suggestion to consider Bath as a base rather than York. As far as history is concerned Bath certainly more than fits the bill and it is a good base for day trips to the Cotswolds, Stonehenge, Avebury and a lot more. Not having been there, I don't have an opinion on Warwick Castle other than from what I have read about it, it seems "Disneyized."

BTW, if you click on my name you will find a fairly recent trip report on some of the places that you plan to visit and others as well.

Having been to both Warwick and York I much preferred York. But if, as Basingstoke says, one threw Bath into the mix that would be my choice among the 3. And what young woman would not appreciate the romantic Georgian setting and associations with Jane Austin. A day spent walking along the tow path of the Kennet & Avon Canal to Bradford-on-Avon, wonderful. Bath and the surrounding area (Cotswolds to the north, Salisbury Plain to the south) gets my vote.

Warwick Castle "Disneyized" or not is still worth a visit. For kids it's a great castle experience with considerable educational opportunities. Other places to visit in Warick include St. Mary's with its beautiful Beachamp Chapel and bronze tomb as well as the 12th century crypt and the 16th century Lord Leycester Hospital. The ruins of Kenilworth Castle nearby certainly merits a visit too. Then there's Stratford-Upon-Avon and its Shakespeare connections. A few days exploring the Cotswolds would add a different aspect to your itinerary.

It would be difficult for me to choose between Warwickshire/the Cotswolds and York as York is one of my favorite places, again with many possibilites as to things to see/do.

Unlike basingstoke2, I'm not a huge fan of Bath. Bath is a very pretty place, but it's a little too gentrified for me but good if you're a Jane Austen fan and if interested in Georgian architecture the place has few rivals. I do love visiting the Roman Baths.

The main reason I'm choosing Warwick or York is that my husband and I in our previous trips have not been there. We have been to Bath, so I really didn't want to repeat. We also have not been to some of the more northerly Cotswolds villages and towns.

Kenilworth Castle looks great! And I'm not worried if Warwick is a little "Disneyized" I think the girls would really enjoy it.

If we went to York would there be day trips (like the Cotswolds) there? We've never been to York.

The Cotswolds would be too far from York for a day trip.

OK--just a few random comments. You have mentioned a couple of times about taking a train to LHR. Just so you understand there are no trains to Heathrow except from central London.

If you choose Warwick - I wouldn't stay in either Warwick or Stratford but in someplace like Chipping Campden or elsewhere in the northern Cotswolds. It would be an easy commute to Warwick, Stratford, Kenilworth, Oxford and everywhere in the Cotswolds.

If you choose York - staying in the center can be an issue because of parking. But there are lots of B&Bs outside the city walls that do have parking.

re your other thread . . I honestly think you'd do better renting 2 smaller cars. You can still tour around together -just not in the same vehicle. That way you can drive back to LHR w/o having to take a train into London and then another train out to LHR.

Also- for that large a group, if you are staying in a B&B you'll need to book well in advance. Perhaps consider renting a cottage instead - many will do short breaks.

I haven't seen your other thread so can't comment on that topic, but janisj always manages to address details that I miss. :) She's also right about staying somewhere like Chipping Campden... a great spot.

If traveling from London to Warwickshire/Cotswolds area, I'd probably pick-up and return the rental car at LHR. If going to York then take train from Kings Cross and rent there for day trips. Yes, parking can be a problem in York so pick your hotel/B&B carefully. If you are a larger group then a cottage would indeed be your best option regardless of where you end up going.

There's plenty to do in York without a car...York Minster, walking the city walls, the Shambles, Jorvik, Clifford's Tower, the Castle Museum and the National Railway Museum which is far more interesing than one might think. basingstoke2 is correct in that the Cotswolds are too far for a day trip from York. A couple of possibilites for day trips would be Fountains Abbey, Thrisk, Castle Howard and Rievaulx Abbey.

I would choose York. Thirsk is the home of James Herriot of "All Creatures.."fame. Ripon is near enough York for a day trip. It has a lovely cathedral and could be done on the day you go to Fountains Abbey. There are also lots of drives into the dales from York.

Or why not do York for four days and then drive back to Warwick and Cotswolds for the last three.

Whatever you choose, you'll have a wonderful time filled with history, scenery and villages.

I like the idea if staying somewhere in the Cotswolds and daytripping to Warwick and other places. Don't know why that never occurred to me!

I will check cottages in addition to B&Bs

My brother and his wife are not comfortable driving in the UK. I've driven "on the wrong side" 5 times now, so I'm getting pretty good at it!

So, if we can't take a train to Heathrow, how we would go about it?

I wrote the above reply hours ago, and then forgot to post it promptly.

I agree pick-up and return at Heathrow would be most convenient. I'm just worried about the logistics of luggage and 6 people. The girls however are skinny, and it doesn't seem to be a really long trip to Chipping Campden from Heathrow (Google says about 2 hours) Maybe that would be the best way to go. Guess I need to check out vehicles.

I'm leaning towards staying in Chipping Campden or another Cotswolds town. We will have spent time in London, so I think seeing some of the charm of the Cotswolds would be great.

Another possibility would be to stay in Oxford. Considered the eastern edge of the Cotswolds, lots there for your nieces, easy drive from Heathrow, less than an hour by train to Warwick, Blenheim Palace nearby if that would interest you. I think, all in all, there are as many or more possibilities from Oxford than deeper in the Cotswolds while still within a short drive.

OK--just a few random comments. You have mentioned a couple of times about taking a train to LHR. Just so you understand there are no trains to Heathrow except from central London.>

Well no direct trains but you can well take trains from Oxford to Heathrow without going into central London - change at Slough, I believe, or other stations to the Heathrow Connect (name? stopping train that serves Heathrow terminals.

The dedicated airport train that goes London Paddington to heathrow non-stop of course only comes from central London currently.

Can't see the average teen gals being that thrilled with the Cotswolds but can see them loving York - especially if shopping is their bag!

If you are only spending about 5 days in London (which, while never 'enough', is probably sufficient) then you do actually have time for both Warwick and York. I think either Warwick or Oxford would be a good base to visit the other one plus some Cotswold towns. I would look at lodging opportunities and find the best accommodations anywhere in that area - I don't think it matters if it's Oxford or Warwick or some other town, they are all easily reached from each other. My daughter just returned from living in Leamington Spa which is right next to Warwick. It's not on the 'tourist' map but it is central to all the places you are thinking of. Even though Warwick Castle is a little disney-fied I think it's more beautiful and interesting than Kenilworth, if you only have time for one. Just be careful visiting Oxford, the girls may end up wanting to go there (that's what happened to my daughter).

From York you can do day trips to Whitby and coast as well as the ruins (Fountains Abbey and Rievaulx Abbey mentioned above).

With 14 days I'd do 5 London, 3 or 4 York, 5 Warwick/Oxford/etc

Returning the car to LHR is pretty easy and does not involve driving into London itself.

Here are photos of the towns mentioned: http://www.pbase.com/annforcier/england

York is so much better, it is really no contest.

I'd say the same about Oxford, no contest. It's all subjective.

I like Bath and York and Oxford and Warwick Castle. I enjoyed the latter even as an aging adult. It's nice to see a castle that isn't a pile of stones, where one can see how they lived in it.

Durham makes a nice daytrip by train from York. There's the cathedral and the university and a nice walk along the river as well as a pleasant shopping area. And there's really quite a lot to do in York itself.

From your apartment in London you can take a train from Paddington Station or the tube to Heathrow to pick up your car.

I'd go to York!! Between to Warwick and York, and York has so much going on in the town and surrounding countryside. Also, it's pretty close (well, about 2 hours) from Lincoln, and I don't think I've been to a prettier town or castle than the one in Lincoln, especially on a nice day!

"Well no direct trains but you can well take trains from Oxford to Heathrow without going into central London - change at Slough, I believe, or other stations to the Heathrow Connect (name? stopping train that serves Heathrow terminals."

Wrong.

Might sound picky, but the poster churning out this nonsense is forever presenting himself as a train expert. Worse, he's forever touting trains in general, and ripoff rail passes his chums sell, as the universal solution to all travel questions.

The uninformed misinformation on this thread is further evidence of the poster's utter unreliability whenever he thinks he's got an opportunity to get more commission for mis-selling train tickets.

There's no westbound train from Heathrow, no plans to build railway tracks making such trains possible, and no remote possibility of using current fully occupied tracks to enable westbound trains (fully occupied partly because of the wasteful and useless Heathrow Express, but that's another story).

Trying PalQ's absurd suggestion requires an unpleasant narrow-staircase connection at Hayes and Harlington (no lift available), then another, often staircase-based, connection at Slough. Total time elapsed,to end up at the edge of built-up Oxford: min 2 hrs

The only sensible route to Oxford from Heathrow is the every 30 min bus (www.oxfordbus.co.uk/main.php?page_id=24), averaging 75 mins straight into Oxford's historic centre.

Oxford and Bath are dreadful places to use as a base for car touring of their hinterlands. Both have traffic policies that are aggressively determined to keep cars out, and glory in the multiplicity of both hidden and obvious punishments and disincentives for anyone bringing cars in.

Oxford's slightly less awful, because there are a number of boring, charmless, car-friendly chain hotels round its horrible ring road - but you might as well be staying in an industrial estate in Peoria. There are a small handful of pretty hotels with their own parking within a mile or so's pleasant walk, or a 5 min bus ride every 2/3 mins, of the centre: Linton Lodge, Old Parsonage, Cotswold Lodge (no idea whether parking's free) - but they charge at least central London prices, and rarely need to discount. Anywhere in the centre is a nightmare with a car: as far as I've experienced, Bath's even worse.

It's probably wisest, in S England's two major tourist towns, to use public transport to get there, stay a day or so without a car, then hire one, drive to an outlying pretty town (like Chipping Campden), stay there for car-based exploration then at the end drive back to London, dumping the car at an airport.

Oxford beats Bath into a cocked hat for anyone remotely interested in history or architecture, and for practically anything else except shopping (for which it's lamentable) and eating (for which it specialises outstandingly in catering for undiscriminating students and tourists).

But given the poster's brief, I'd choose York.

Trying PalQ's absurd suggestion requires an unpleasant narrow-staircase connection at Hayes and Harlington (no lift available), then another, often staircase-based, connection at Slough. Total time elapsed,to end up at the edge of built-up Oxford: min 2 hrs>

tis true but the info I gave was correct - you can take a train to Heathrow from Oxford without going into Central London.

York

For a day trip in the countryside you could drive across the N.Yorkshire moors. The east coast has some dramatic cliffs, hiking and birding opportunities too.

Hawley would be a short enough drive from York - right on the edge of the moors this old stone-built town is famous for being the home of the Bronte sisters - a museum to them and the parsonage their pop worked at is still there but to trek into the desolate moor right behind town is really awesome.

Oops before the character assassin jumps on me let me correct my above post - not Hawley village but Haworth, the home of the Brontes

Visit Haworth - England
http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/vi...rth.aspHaworth in West Yorkshire "Right before the traveller on this road rises Haworth village; he can see it for two miles before he arrives, for it is situated on the side ...
Haworth Village
www.haworth-village.org.uk/Haworth village is situated at the edge of the Pennine moors in West ...
Tourist Information - Annual Events - The Brontes - Steam Railway

PQ: Everything from 'Visit' to 'Railway' should be in quotes (copy/paste will bite you every time)

Wrenwood: Read flanner's post -- very accurate re cars/driving in both Bath and Oxford. Driving up from LHR is easiest IF you stay in the countryside. Coach to Oxford and then car from there if you want to stay a night or two in Oxford. The Hertz location in Oxford is easiest because it is just off the main road that goes to Woddstoc and then into the northern Cotswolds. You would not have to drive in Oxford at all - though you'd have to take a cab to get to Hertz.

joannay, I love Oxford, but based on the OP's question...

Bilboburgler, I was addressing those question marks in the OP's subject heading, figuring she was not quite sure and thinking of what might appeal to 2 teenage girls. And the proximity to the Cotswolds so Oxford didn't seem so far fetched. I love it too.

And despite Flanneruk's ongoing promotion of the coach station in Oxford, I find the location of the train station perfectly within walking range for trips to Warwick or York. Then the car and a stay of a couple of nights in the Cotswolds before returning to Heathrow.

And despite Flanneruk's ongoing promotion of the coach station in Oxford > - he probably gets a cut off each coach ticket sold or owns the station or some angle but yes incessant promotion of that is weird.

Hadn't thought of that. Yes, I'd promote it too in that case. Silly me.

Average teen gals will love York i think a lot more than the Cotswolds - unless they love to hike on hilly and often muddy footpaths and love stately houses!

York is full of life - the Shambles perpetually thronged with shoppers - certainly one of UK's primo shopping districts as York is a magnet regional town where folks come to shop from miles around.

shopping aside York has the stupendous Minster, a stunning cathedral-like structure and lots of neat museums and even an authentically haunted house - well it is said to be anyway - think it is the Treasurer's House but not sure - right near the Minster.

And York has one of Britain's primo family attractions - the National Railway Museum, right next to York's cool Victoria train station - to me one of the very finest looking ones in Europe and uniquely curved (more shameless promotions of trains, flimflanner!) - Anyway lots of things besides old trains - like a lot of Royal Trains all decked out to fit a royal - and it is free - certainly one of the UK's most popular museums.

And York offers a host of easy day trips - not only to the Yorkshire Moors and other moors but to Harrogate, a famous spa town with thermal establishments and the original Betty Tea Room (name may not be quite right - there is also one of these famous emporiums smack right in York itself - tea there is an event in and of itself.

Gals like to swim - North Sea may or may not be warm enough then but nearby Scarborough has a beach and all the trappings of a fading British seaside resort.

And Whitby - with its famous abbey and also the home town of Dracula they say - awesome seaside setting

A fun thing to do is to take the North Yorkshire Steam Railway (again hazy on the exact name) but runs from near York thru rural Yorkshire to near Whitby.

And there are boat rides on the canals and rivers around York - like out to the Archbishop's Palace.

And Fountains Abbey, one of Britain's most awesome abbey ruins set in a lovely setting by Studley Royal - a huge estate - is also an easy drive from York.

York IMO has lots more to offer everyone than the Cotswold Hills.

North Yorkshire Moors Railway :: A steam train adventure through ...
www.nymr.co.uk/The North Yorkshire Moors Railway provides some 18 miles of preserved steam railway running through the spectacular scenery of the North Yorkshire Moors

North Yorkshire Moors Railway is the proper name - some use steam engines I believe - at least mine did.

Thanks, I think maybe you've convinced me to do some research on York!

ghosts in the basement of the treasurer's house (roman military). there are some lovely gems in York including the "Merchant's Venturer's Hall" and some other medieval building alongside the Treasurers House (an old college (St Williams's) that you can have tea in) is very pretty.

If you want to stay in York for a few days get tourist info to book you an appartment in the old centre (very good prices and it lets you see the old city at night)

Teens may also like in York the Jorvik Viking Experience - one of those kitschy historical 'experiences' that every town seems to have - this one you ride thru I guess on some conveyance thru scenes re-created York's Viking heritage - not sure haven't taken it but it could be a fun thing to do for teens and adults as well. Cultural snobs will diss it but so what - said to be one of Britain's most popular sights outside of London.

Jorvik Viking Centre | Home page
www.jorvik-viking-centre.co.uk/The world famous JORVIK Viking Centre is a must-see for visitors to the city of York.

http://www.jorvik-viking-centre.co.uk/

should work

Following is an excerpt from my TR about a very worthwhile FREE activity in York. The time of the walk may have changed do to the season.

Having parked and settled into our room we saw that there was still time to walk to Exhibition Square and catch the 2:30 free walk hosted by volunteers. We made it with about 10 minutes to spare after a 45 minute walk. Again, our guide was engaging and had a deep knowledge of local history. The walk concentrated on the Roman and Norman aspects of York. Especially interesting learning how tell Roman walls from Norman by the type of stonework and the walk through the Shambles. The walk did not go into York Minster but there were explanations of outer features and ended with a long narrated walk along the top of wall surrounding York followed by the Shambles walk.

basingstoke2 ~ thanks, look what Google found for me!

http://www.britainexpress.com/cities/york/walking.htm

The apartment I'm looking at is not far from Waterloo Station.

If we were to rent a car there to drive towards York, will we have expenses for driving "within" the city or the congestion zone, or whatever the high traffic area is called?


How is that charged? By the rental agency? Or would I need some type of card or pass?

ttt

no congestion charge in York
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/roadusers/.../whereandwhen/ in London