Vienna subway warning
 

On a recent trip to Vienna, my wife and I bought subway tickets at the entrance machine before entering the subway. We had trouble understanding the instructions on the machine; there was no ticket booth; there were no officials nearby to ask questions, only people rushing by we couldn’t ask for help.

We purchased a combined ticket for us both. Then, on the train, a subway policeman showed us his identification and checked our ticket.

We were told that we had purchased the wrong ticket. He had us leave the train at the next stop and took us to an ATM machine on the platform, where he had us withdraw 100 Euros to pay a fine.

We were embarrassed and unnerved by this and being tourists felt this was uncalled for. A warning ticket would have better proved the point and ended the encounter without leaving a bad impression of Vienna as we left the city the next day.

My wife later wrote to the Vienna Ubahn protesting the fine that we considered unwarranted. A reply from the Vienna office supported the policeman saying that regardless of our tourist status, we had broken the law.

As much as we loved visiting Vienna, this will leave a bad taste for us about our visit.

Sorry - but when you visit a foreign city it is up to you to understand how the transit system works and how to follow the rules.

If they gave every tourist who "misunderstood" and bought the wrong (cheaper) ticket or didn't properly validate their ticket there would be hundred of people doing this every day - and claiming tourist status as a reason.

Just as with driving a car - you are expected to now the rules and ignorance of the law is no excuse (as every US cop tells people when giving them a tickets for speeding or illegal u turns or whatever they do wrong).

The officers were just doing their job and you have nothing to complain about.

When we visited Russia and rode the bus os subway we ere stopped every single time (since w were obviously americans) and had out ticket checked. If we weren't doing it correctly I'm sure we would have had a ton of fines - and rightfully so.

If you don;t understand the rules you should check at your hotel.

The Vienna office response was correct. You don't get special exemptions for being a tourist anywhere in the world.

Friedy you might want to forget you posted this. Same posters. Same reply. Every time.

I agree with nytraveler. A couple of months ago a "first time poster" like yourself had the same "problem." Your tourist status doesn't obviate your responsibility to follow the rules, plain and simple. Given that the instructions on the ticket machines are available in at least four languages, one of which you wrote your post in, understanding the ticket options should not have been difficult. Public transportation is easy to navigate here.

I am curious about your "combined ticket," as well. Aside from the Vienna Card (which offers unlimited transportation), for what "combination" did you purchase a ticket?

One final question for you. Did you conduct any travel research on "how to purchase tickets on Vienna subway?" before you traveled? I just did a Google search using that phrase and found these terribly helpful links.

http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.p...ish/fares.html
https://www.wien.info/en/travel-info/transport/tickets
https://www.wien.gv.at/english/trans...lic-transport/
http://www.wienerlinien.at/eportal3/...annelId=-47643

I sympathize with the poster and several others with the same problem - Vienna is too tough on naive tourists not trying to beat the system but who have paid for a ticket.

Thanks for posting as a warning to others and yes Vienna transports needs to be a bit more understanding of people making an honest mistake - but costly at 100 euro - a warning would have been a better response.

One final question for you. Did you conduct any travel research on "how to purchase tickets on Vienna subway?" before you traveled? I just did a Google search using that phrase and found these terribly helpful links.>

You do this for every city's transit system? You must spend hours and hours if so!

Yes, PalenQ , I do. It is a small and rather important part of travel planning that takes no more than 10 minutes. There is no excuse for not doing one's homework before a holiday. My time is free; and I would prefer to spend the €100 fine on something more meaningful to my holiday.

It likely to the OP longer to register as a user and post their "complaint" the it would have to Google search "how to purchase tickets on Vienna subway." Warnings serve little purpose; tourists are temporary visitors, and why give any local slackers a break?

Friedy, you must understand Fodor's attracts people who have never made a mistake, never ever tried talk their way out of a bad situation, never did anything wrong, and have accepted every punishment given to them.

Being on Fodor's is the step before beatification.

As someone who cannot stand Austria because of their imperious manner, it is not surprising that they do this. But it happens elsewhere as well.

You would think that the City Vaters would not want to discourage tourism and forgive a stranger's innocent error, but that it is not the case. And it is becoming more and more common with traffic tickets. And there it will the rental car companies who suffer, because people will be more unwilling to rent.

Tourist dollars are the best money as they require a small portion of the services of resident, but in many places pay high hotel taxes.

All things that must be accepted if one wants to travel.

Actually, IMDonehere, some people do accept when they are in the wrong and just pay the fine without complaining. They might not like it, they might wish they had been shown more leniency, but they don't adopt the tone that they should get to decide what constitutes a fair penalty, not the authorities.

As for the 'I am bringing money into the economy therefore you should be grateful no matter what I do' attitute, do you really believe that? Do you think it would be right to left off a motorist who had injured or killed a cyclist or pedestrian because they were unaware of local speed limits and had spent £50 in the Tate Gallery giftshop that morning?

This procedure of extracting cash from a tourist seems a little dodgy...

Why should the tourist not have to follow the same rules? Why should the citizens of Vienna have to provide free transit to tourists?

The rules are clearly posted in the subway. And anyone who spend 5 minutes on google can find out what the rules are. If one prefers to travel to foreign cities without finding out about how the system works is just asking for trouble. If that's too much trouble then suggest you take cabs.

You were what's called a "schwarz Fahrer," or black rider/traveler. We just saw a short film of that name in my German class. I recall once getting a subway ticket out of a machine in Vienna and not knowing that we had to get it punched in a machine on the subway.

We weren't caught, and we later realized what we should have done. You weren't so fortunate.

Sure -- anyone can make mistakes . . . but I (honestly) don't get the >>and being tourists felt this was uncalled for<< reaction. Why was it uncalled for? What makes you or any tourist 'special'?

But I doubt the OP will see any of the responses - pro-friedy or and anti-friedy. Registered to post his 'TR' which isn't a trip report really but just a complaint.

>>He had us leave the train at the next stop and took us to an ATM machine on the platform, where he had us withdraw 100 Euros to pay a fine. <<

There's no doubt that the OP made a mistake and should expect the fine, but if the above happened to me I would wonder if I was being taken.

Is this a normal occurrence, the cash payment that is? Or maybe exaggerated a bit?

In Vienna, transit officers are authorized to escort those being fined to a Bankomat or Bank if they have insufficient funds on hand to pay the fine. How else can they guarantee the fine will be paid; should they hand a tourist a paper ticket and ask for a promise to pay?

Thanks for confirming @fourfortravel. It's just not done, and would never be allowed, in Canada, for whatever reason, so I'm not familiar with this happening.

While I agree that the Viennese, especially, love their rules, structure, and order, I disagree that they are imperious. Vienna's transit system operates on the honor system, as does much of Vienna. Nowhere else would I feel comfortable leaving my grocery trolley and handbag three aisles away while I go to fetch an item; and I have witnessed many parents who leave their babies in the carriage on the sidewalk outside of a store unattended when they drop in for an item or two, especially here in the neighborhoods. Some elderly shoppers simply open their pocketbooks at the grocer and allow the clerk to extract the proper notes for payment without concern money will be stolen.

Travelers who are willing to spend hundreds or more on a holiday but can not be bothered to take a few minutes to understand a city's public transportation system (especially one as straightforward as Vienna's), or its culture, are the real problem.

As for the 'I am bringing money into the economy therefore you should be grateful no matter what I do' attitute, do you really believe that? Do you think it would be right to left off a motorist who had injured or killed a cyclist or pedestrian because they were unaware of local speed limits and had spent £50 in the Tate Gallery giftshop that morning?
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Only on Fodor's would some equate some making a wrong payment on the subway and killing a pedestrian.

What makes you or any tourist 'special'?>

Because they are tourists not trying to beat the system but had actually bought what they think was a valid ticket - that this is reported from Vienna quite often but rarely from other cities shows that Vienna has a zero-tolerance when I think tourists not aiming to scam the system should be given a break - do you remember, decades ago perhaps, when you were a naive first-time tourist?

Something is rotten in Vienna and it ain't the Sacher Tortes - it's the transit police who should be given a course in determining who is really trying to cheat the system and those who are not.

and yes OP will not be reading any of this but it does serve a good warning to others going to Vienna that be sure you have the correct valid ticket and follow all the instructions to a T as you will not be given a break as in many other places in Europe.

PalenQ, why are you raging against Vienna?

Did you choke on a piece of Sachertorte?

Any city in Europe is strict against black riders (I recently watched American tourists caught without valid tickets on a vaporetto in Venice - they were treated without humour).

There is plenty of information that you have to validate your tickets in validating machines which are hanging everywhere. E.g. here on the web:

http://www.wienerlinien.at/eportal3/...annelId/-47643

And they have brochures which explain how you punch your ticket to validate it:

http://www.wienerlinien.at/media/fil...web_129361.pdf

And EVERY guidebook has a chapter on public transport and how it works.

Conclusion: If you have made a mistake, apologize and be silent and do not complain here on this forum.

PalenQ, when have you last visited Vienna? And what is the basis for your comment that, "you will not be given a break as in many other places in Europe?"

We have lived here in Vienna for nearly four years, and routinely visit our neighbors. Never, ever, would I not spend the 10 minutes or so to figure out how to use their transit systems. It is a shame that you believe others should be "given a break" for their slack behavior.

The difference here is that they had what they thought were valid tickets - not no tickets at all like your Venice example - be careful how you use the word "black"- could be Black people.

It just seems that when these things come up it is the tourist who thought they were doing the right thing, not trying to scam the system that everyone piles on without even sympathizing with them - you can say that a bit more gently like:

"I sympathize with your troubles but...:instead of instantly scolding them and denigrating them and more pile on - like a Rugby scrum, calling them criminals who should pay dearly for their crimes that they did not know they even were committing.

Enough said - rant on about what idiots they were...

Just seems so many get caught in Vienna as evidenced by several such posts during the last year or so yet few from other places.

Even Europeans can make such mistakes - two of my French friends - older folks who should have known better went to Basel and they saw everyone boarding trams without any tickets so they just hopped on too and came back and told me that 'the trams in Basel were free'(in fact they could have gotten a transit pass from their hotel it seems)- now that ignorance merits a fine because everyone knows that there is no free ride but in this case they had bought tickets - just the wrong ones.

Some of you are total arses. I also would like to thank the op for the info, it does serve as a warning to others going to Vienna.

>>rant on about what idiots they were…<<

No one said they were idiots . . . until <i>you</i> brought it up >)

Mistakes are made -- no big deal. It is the notion that 'we tourists are special' that jumps out. . . .

Well, "you live and learn". It seems there is little doubt we were in the wrong and expected too much. Thank you all for your input. This helps me readjust my thinking. In spite of this, Vienna was wonderful and we do plan on returning.

>>be careful how you use the word "black"- could be Black people<<

We Europeans do not need to get lectured here by Americans.

No one said they were idiots . . . until you brought it up>

Well the post that said they should have Googled Vienna Transport, etc may have well as said that and several others.

Janis dear tourists are special or should be - bona fide tourists and that's where we differ - people wantonly boarding with any ticket that's different - tourist or not but they had a ticket - the wrong one and that tome means they were not trying to scam the system- the reason transport police make checks.

friedy however seems to have a good attitude after all was said and done - thanks for posting anyway so folks going to Vienna should be prepared and do their research, etc. Maybe best to go to a staffed ticket window if one exists and in this case it was not apparent anyway and ask for a ticket to ...... and how it should be validated, etc.

And the ticketing machines probably had English on them if they looked, etc.

I can see both points of view but feel 100 euros for an honest mistake way way too much- punishment exceeds the crime - out of kilter with the intent, etc.

friedy now seems to think like y'all too!

<Friedy you might want to forget you posted this. Same posters. Same reply. Every time.>

Best response, and early in the thread, too, which is always appreciated.

<Some of you are total arses. I also would like to thank the op for the info, it does serve as a warning to others going to Vienna.>
Another good response, but late in the thread, so points deducted.

The warning was appropriate. The expectation that they should be let off because they are tourists isn't.
It is easy enough to find out about using public transport in different countries now, even if you never read a guide book, the internet is a wondrous resource.

Hopefully others will read this and go find out how the ticket system for the subway in Vienna, or the metro in Paris, or the trams in Amsterdam works nd avoids losing a chin of their holiday money.

Same applies to renting a car - look up the rules, know the speed limits and the indicators that the speed limit has changed for the countries you are visiting. If you get a fine don't winge that they are clearly targeting tourists, since they aren't - camera speed traps catch everyone speeding regardless.
If you are stopped for speeding you can expect an on the sot fine and to be accompanied to the nearest cash point or petrol station to get the cash if you don't have it on you. Really speed and you can expect to lose your licence, even f it is an American one. In many countries it is illegal to drive without your driving licence on your person, so you could really ruin your holiday.

I just got here, been working all day NewbE.

In Spain it is illegal I understand to drive without a spare pair of spectacles if your drivers license says you need them - yet I bet a lot of tourists don't realize that. throw the book at em - maybe some jail time would drive the point of law home! Or issue them a warning - which is better? More understanding - y'all say tourists should not get a pass - what if say a Chinese tourist in your home city gets on a bus without validating their ticket - should your city fine them $125 for just not cancelling the ticket?

Priorities, flpab, priorities!

I keep checking the date on these posts, but I still feel like I'm having flashbacks.

How are the transport police supposed to distinguish between an actual tourist and a local claiming to be a tourist?

I, too, don't get PQ's animus against Vienna. I prefer Budapest, but I find Vienna's transport system admirable.

IMdonehere you were the one that introduced traffic violations into a discussion about public transport fines as another example of 'unfair' treatment of tourists.

Don't then be surprised if someone addresses why such fines are appropriate and how ridiculous it is that someone who is doing something potentially dangerous should get a free pass just because they are not local.

One other point - the people who keep adjudicating/apologising to the OP for what they see as unreasonable responses - in this and multiple other threads - you are free to speak your opinion on any topic but please stop taking it upon yourself to decide what is an acceptable response from others - you come across as arrogant idiots.

IMdonehere you were the one that introduced traffic violations into a discussion about public transport fines as another example of 'unfair' treatment of tourists.
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Fine. It is equal comparison a ticket and killing someone. But feel free to call others arrogant idiots. Fodor's was made for you.
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In NYC we had 60 million visitors last year. There is no way in hell they all could know all the laws and the unwritten rules as well. There should be common sense by tourists and common sense by cops and anyone else who enforced regs and laws.

To think that people are going to memorize every rule in a guide book, is absolutely ridiculous and unrealistic.

It was not the intent of the OP to game the system. They made an honest error. And there are other cities where they fine people for not having the right transportation receipt. But someone should invoke common sense to realize the difference between a tourist making an error and someone trying to steal a ride.

If the guardians of all that is holy do not recognize someone is a visitor by one of a 1,000 clues, including the question, "Are you an effing tourist?" then they are harming their own city in the long run.

Just the way countries are tracking down traffic offenders and the rental car companies add an onerous admin fee. We are going away later this years and will limit our car rental because of this BS. The one who is paying the consequence is the car rental company.

This place has become a convocation of self-righteous prigs.

PalenQ, my statement about travelers who are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a holiday but not 10 minutes on the Internet learning how to purchase subway tickets was meant to point out the ridiculousness of the original complaint. You made an incorrect inference.

All of the excuses about "innocent tourists" are just that, excuses. Travelers often like to boast about "living like a local;" well, we "locals" purchase proper transportation tickets. Vienna takes pride in its honor system; transit officers respect the rules, and tourists should, as well. The penalty is large so as to deter the Schwarzfahren (an actual term without any inference to a person's skin color.)

Just some factual information:

In Austria, using public transport without a valid ticket is a misdemenour with a penalty of up to € 218 - according to federal administrative law.
The amount of maximum penalty is similar to the maximum penalty for parking offences.

A ticket is not valid when you buy it from a machine, but once you validated it. If you don't validate it, you have not paid the fare as the paper stub still has its face value.

In Vienna, the requirement to validate the ticket is printed on the ticket in three languages, including English.
The space reserved for the validation stamp is marked with a bold arrow.
In addition, the entrances to the subway platforms have walk-through 'barriers', with the respective validation machines labeled as such, also in English.

Fare dodging will remain unpunished and the penalty of up to € 218 will be waived if a set "penalty fare" (€ 100 in Vienna) is paid on the spot instead. Or within 3 days, if the person can identify him/herself with gov issued ID.

While the amount of the penalty set by law and those of penalty fares may differ, you will find a similar legal construct in other jurisdictions as well and it's not unique for Austria.

As it has been debated that someone who unknowingly does not carry a valid ticket should not be treated like those who actively try to avoid to pay the fare (e.g. sneak into a bus without showing a valid ticket, jump a barrier):
In Austria, active fare evasion constitutes a felony according to the federal penal code, punishable with one month in prison or penalty of up to 60 day-fines.

You can all carry on all you like about following the rules but being marched up to an ATM and forced to withdraw money is extremely punitive way to enforce the law. Makes you wonder what they would to to someone littering or spraying graffiti on their trains. Off to the salt mines you go.