Venice - reading very negative stuff
 

Hi to all - I am continuing to read quietly, having done the first part of my trip to Italy planning, and I am unnerved by some of the comments about Venice. In particular, see the Dupher thread (which I am loving, as is everyone else who has read it). I am looking for some insight on how to spend my 3 1/2 days in Venice (4 nights, but I expect to be falling on my face when we get there - I don't know how some of you do so much on your first day after a transatlantic flight - and mine, being from NY, is much shorter than many of the rest of you). Since St Marks is so disliked by so many, for its crowded square and ridiculously overpriced restaurants, is my hotel choice (Locanda Orseolo)
a mistake? I know we will check out the Guggenheim, but what else and where else should be on our list of off the beaten track but still wondrous places to see while we are in Venice? I want to leave Venice happy that we visited, not trying to justify our time there, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, thanks to all who choose to weigh in (again) on this topic.

But,

As you have done a lot of reading, you should know that everyone has different impressions, favorites, and un-favorites. You must go, hopefully enjoy, and form your own opinions.

I love Venice, 2 visits, one in March (deserted) and one in May (much busier, but not bad). If it were me, I would visit Pizza San Marco, very early, or late evening.

Spend the rest of your visit wandering away from the piazza and Rialto Bridge (highly overrated in my opinion).

Buon viaggio!

The best thing to do in Venice is just wander around. But in addition to that there's also touring Doge's Palace, going to Murano and Burano, and visiting the different neighborhoods. Venice is small, so to avoid the crowds and overpriced restaurants of St. Mark's, just stroll away from that area. It's certain still well worth seeing, crowds, pigeons and all.

You will find plenty to do in your 3 1/2 days. As far as your hotel, I'm not familiar with it but it gets outstanding reviews on tripadvisor.

Despite all the negative things about Venice sinking under the weaight of tourism to me it remains Europe's most fantastic visual city - and not just the city itself but the lagoon

Take boats to Murano, Burano and Torcello, the last two must less touristed than Murano with all its tourist-oriented glass blowers (but still fun)

St Mark's i love in spite of summer crowds - especially at night when the orchestras strike up in front of the caffes - no charge for listening and gives a real neat effect

And there are loads of places in Venice where the tourist masses do not go - they pretty much stick to a beaten path between train station/bus and car parking lots and St Mark's - take any of several alternate routes that go thru relatively deserted squares, etc.

A trip by boat - regular vaporetto the city's 'bus' sytem at night or day to me is Europe's number one thing to do if i had to chose - the faded out sinking pastel facades of the old palazzo silently glide by - standing silent sentinel to glory days long ago when Venice was indeed one of the world's most important cities.
You will 'leave Venice happy that you visited' in my opinion if you want to.

I'm from NYC, took the direct flight to Venice (2 years ago - arrived with no problems) and stayed at Locando Orseolo. Locando is just off the piazza - great location - tucked around a corner - to be so close to some of the major sights is great (you can go early to St. Marco - the boat taxis are a 5 minute walk away - coming back through the empty piazza late at night is fabulous) The owners and staff are wonderful. There are plenty of reasonably priced restaurants in many other parts of Venice (I didn't sit at any of the cafes on the square - a bit too touristy for my taste) - the staff at Locando will give you advice. One suggestion - put the guide book away one day and just wander, take a left then a right - allows yourself to get a bit lost - half the fun. I enjoyed taking a tour of the Fenice and defintely make sure to make your way to the top room in the Palazzo Ducale.

My husbands first look at St Marks was at 8pm at night and it was wonderfully empty on a late June night. We enjoyed just wondering the square. We went back the next day in the daytime and it was very crowded but we still enjoyed it and people watching but went back at night when there were just a handful of people, it was magical

I had been there before and I knew that to see it empty is even more exciting then seeing it full of people.

Hi butnotrmpt- You did not say when you intend to be in Venice. It can make a difference in your enjoyment. IMO the best times are Spring and Fall - we have had particularly good luck in October. Summer is more crowded and the heat can make the crowds less tolerable, besides one of the best things to do in Venice is just wander and that is best to do when the weather is pleasant. You will be surprised how much there is to see "off the tourist track." You will come across hundreds of interesting shops, interesting sites and lots of good places to eat that are nowhere near the prices the more touristed areas command.

About St. Marks, go and don't mind the crowds. The space is still gorgeous. At night it is far less crowded and you can walk from restaurant to restaurant listening to their live outdoor music. If you don't want to sit at a table - and at prices they charge you may not want to- just join the folks who are standing. On the other hand, you may want a table and nurse a drink -consider it the price of admission.

Buy a day pass or 3 day pass for the Vaporetto and use it. It is much less crowded at night and the ride along the Grand Canal is, to use a term that it much overused but fits here, magical. Use your Vaporetto pass to visit Murano or Burano if you care to and have time. It is a pleasant ride and both islands have something to offer. If you visit Murano, getting away from the myriad of glass shops near the Vaporetto stop and wandering some more, you will come across glass factories some with their own showrooms and some give tours. Who knows, you may come away with a chandelier that "spoke to you" - we did! Have a great time.

Hi butnotrmpt, I agree with all the previous posters and the advice they have given you. We are just back from a week in Venice and loved every minute of it. It was our second trip and I have to say that we still didn't feel like we had enough. We could easily go again. Go with an open mind and don't worry, form your own impression.

Don't get unnerved. Every place is not for everyone, but until you've been there, you just don't know.

There are a few other threads on this board about people not liking Rome or Florence or <insert place here>. Although I wholeheartedly agree with some people's dislike of Rome, and I'm kind of wishy-washy about Florence, I really liked Venice. In fact, when I planned the trip to Italy (Venice - Florence - Rome, in that order), I was really expecting to not like Venice - too touristy, crowded, overpriced, etc. As it turned out, I could easily have spent several more days there. I didn't find things to be 'touristy' once I got away from the Square. Heck, I even was a lot more enchanted by the gondola ride than I ever expected to be (hint, do it in the evening).

What other places have you been to that you liked and disliked? Maybe if you give a few past experiences, someone can help you with ideas of things in Venice that you will enjoy (or things not to do).

I haven't yet decided if there is some place that isn't for anyone.

Sorry, but you should not discount St. Marks and if you do IMO you are making a BIG mistake.

It is hard to avoid the place during the day if you are going to the Doge's Palace etc., but what you really should so is visit it AT NIGHT after most of the other visitors have left...it is truly magical.

butnotrmpt, I'm curious as to why you would have booked four days in Venice if you have underlying pessimistic expectations.....

Of course, there are always negatives...no matter where you happen to be. However, even with the few negatives, for me and my husband, we thought Venice was a beautiful, exciting and magical experience...and we hopefully plan to get there at least once again in this lifetime, not so much to see anything at all...but to experience Venice again.

I'll echo what some other posters have said: just put away the guidebooks at some point and just wander, wander, wander. Other than the visit to the Doge's Palace, that was the most fun I had in Venice. Just go with the flow!

Also, we did love the live music in St. Mark's in the evening!

Don't focus on the negative--bypass it and find something positive.

Some hate Venice !

Some love Venice !

I belong to the latter group, but did not always. The key variables are:
Time of year.
Number of days.
Planing your time to avoid the hordes.

Just returned from my 10th (I think--lost count!) visit to Venice. I was traveling with three who had never been to Venice before. All three fell in love with Venice, even though it was gray and rainy for the entire visit. They couldn't get enough of wandering the different neighborhoods, but also enjoyed the sightd around San Marco. I suspect it also helped that late November has fewer tourists, and that we stayed in Santa Croce, a little off the beaten path--much better hotel rates and reasonably-priced, good restaurant choices.

a footnote...

I know some people here wax about Venice like some swoon and sway about Paris - they make it sound like every moment was some amazing experience and if you don't have the same experience...well there's something wrong with you.

I had some wonderful wow moments in Venice - and there were other moments that were a bit blase. I was there for 8 days - which is a long time in one place - even for Venice (and as for Paris - well, I'd rather go to Newark, NJ - just kidding)

go - wander - ponder - find a quiet enoteca to read a book - hang out in the piazza in the middle of the day with the hordes - there is plenty to do if you want - it's how you want to spend your time.

LOCANDA ORSEOLO
We stayed at Locanda Orseola in October and although it is conveniently located near to St. Mark's square, the most important thing to remember is that it is centrally located to most of the sites in Venice. Since we knew exactly where St. Mark's square was, it was very easy to navigate where LO was located when we came back late at night or looking for a point of reference on our day trips. The beauty of Locanda Orseolo are the hosts that run it. They made our stay in Venice even more perfect by their gracious hospitality.

JET LAG and DAY #1
This was our first trip to Europe. We flew in from California with a 3 hr. layover in NYC and arrived in Venice at 10:30am.

The best advice we received from this great Fodor's site was:

1) adjust to local time IMMEDIATELY (the best remedy for jet lag).

2) Do not plan anything on the first day after a long flight (this is hard to do since I didn't want to waste a moment....but I found that it was far from time wasted).

When we arrived, we unloaded our luggage at LO and began wandering and getting our bearings. We found ourselves near the Guggenheim and since we felt up to it, went on in. We discovered one of our favorite Campos (St. Stefano) on day #1 when we sat at an outdoor cafe, had a snack and prosecco while savoring the ambience. No schedules, no pressure....just drinking it all in. That night (and a couple thereafter) we went to St. Mark's, while it was nearly empty, to listen to the Orchestras which, to us, was the perfect ending to an idyllic day in Venice.

ST MARK'S
Like many, we were disappointed with St. Mark's on our <b>first impression</b> and the very crowded areas nearby including the Rialto bridge. We found it's beauty and magic at night or early in the morning when we had the entire square and bridge to ourselves (after the cruise passengers and daytrippers have left). You will find this is when Venice will be at it's best.....when you have her to explore all to yourself.

VENICE...YES or NO?
When planning this trip, I was on the fence about including Venice (based on all the negative comments). Awhile back I posted a question here at Fodor's: &quot;Venice....why or why not?&quot;. It generated great responses and after that, I never looked back....Venice was at the top of the list.

What I had to remember is what moves/inspires me as a traveller and what we wanted in our experience in Italy. I was challenged in that I wanted my vision of Venice to meet it's high expectations. We went with open eyes and with much research...Venice exceeded our high expectations.

PLANNING
In retrospect, for our 4 days in Venice, I put too much emphasis on creating a list and making sure that we hit all the &quot;musts&quot; that appealed to us. We did most of our list, but it was the wandering and moments savored that appealed to us most. Be flexible and open without rushing from place to place to cross a &quot;must&quot; off your list. Although armed with a wealth of knowledge from extensive research and planning (I love it!), we found so many fabulous discoveries along the way.

Tips: Pop into a non-descript church, look up to see the campaniles and windows, notice the art and statues on the walls, find your favorite alley and bridge.

I came back with a quote from St. Catherine, the patron Saint of Siena: &quot;The more you know the more you love, and by loving more, the more you enjoy.&quot;

All the best in your planning....I wish we were just going!

Put me in with all of those who love Venice. Our trip there was, for me, the highlight of our visit to Italy.

Locanda Orseolo is an excellent choice for both lcoation and service. The owners are perhaps the most accomodating we have ever encountered.

As for St Mark's, I am sure there are lots of opinions but I absolutely loved the people and the music...and the birds. My husband still complains about the prices at Florian's but sitting there, sipping campari, and listening to the music was delightful. I would do it again in a heartbeat despite the cost.

Also, as everyone says, you must throw the guide books away for at least an afternoon and just wander. You will be amazed by the things you can find.

Have been to Venice 4 times (once on business) and loved it 3 of them. the 4th was in July and my problem was the heat/humidity (which I cannot deal with at all).

It's an incredibly exciting, unique city, with a huge number of famous (and unknown) things to do. We esp liked a couple of walking tours of specific neighborhoods that we took (with only a few other people - most just seem to take the one basic walk).

Only you can decide if you like it or not - and only after being there.

butnotrmpt,

A) if you are interested in the &quot;Secret Itineraries Tour&quot; at Palazzo Ducale...have LO book it for you (supply them with days/times). We did the tour and loved it. Great history.

B) Another vote for getting a 3 day Vaporetto pass and taking it the length of the canal (lines #1 and #82) early in the morning and at dusk to see the sunrise/set and the chandeliers lit in the palazzos.

C) Discover the Produce/Fish market come to life (7am or earlier) near the Rialto.

We had planned to take a trip to Burano, but found so much to do in the main island of Venice. After 4 days, we have an ever-growing list for our next visit.

Good luck.

Venice: &quot;Love it or Hate it&quot;...Why?

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34779109

Stop reading!!! Seriously.

I love Venice. I've been there twice. I can't think of a single negative thing to say about it. I don't go at a fast and furious pace on trips. I take my time and wander. That's exactly what I did twice (4-5 days each trip) around Venice.

To miss visiting San Marcos because someone(s) on the internet doesn't like it would be a HUGE mistake imo.

Maybe it's just me, and I admit I've only been to Venice 3 times - but the crowds have never bothered me. And two of my visits were in May.

Avoid the beaten path and you will be fine. My Mom commented that she thought Venice was deserted - and a lot of it is, because the day trippers only go to a few popular spots.

Pre- 9 AM and post 5 or 6 PM and even those popular spots are a different place entirely.

Venice is magical. You'll love it.

My husband and I spent 2.5 days in Venice at the end of a whirlwind Italy trip in early November 2005. We found a lot of the tourists sites practically deserted or with minimal waits. The Square was serenely quiet at 8:30am in the morning and after the sun set at 5pm. It was beautiful. We loved walking through the winding streets at night. So my advice is to quit reading the negative posts and focus on what you want to do and experience. Enjoy it!

As you have read above, there are many very positive posts regarding Venice. My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute we were there. The main attractions you should not miss but our best time, as some have mentioned, was just wandering around, looking in stores, going to the islands, riding on the Grand Canal, and yes- taking a gondolla &quot;cruise&quot;. We were on a Po River Cruise which ended in Venice so our &quot;hotel&quot; docked right next to St. Mark's Square. Enjoy it. It is a memorable city- next to Paris, my favorite.

&gt;&gt;I know we will check out the Guggenheim, but what else and where else should be on our list of off the beaten track but still wondrous places to see while we are in Venice?&lt;&lt;

It might help to have an idea of what Venice is all about. It has a (roughly) 1500-year history; it didn't need an American heiress to put it on the map.

Sure, you can wander the back streets and ooh-and-aah about how picturesque it all is. Or you can
read a little (a guidebook is useful...) and discover a few of the gems that most tourists never go near. Two examples: Santa Maria dei Miracoli, Ca Rezzonico.

Our favourite trip to Venice was in very early June. (We were also there a couple of times leading school groups in March/April, but somehow the idea of romance doesn't work surrounded by 53 teenagers and venice IS romantic!)

We stayed in Traghetto/Cannareggio, a real neighbourhood, with local, unfancy bars,stores where Venetians shop, trattorias, university life. It is adjacent to the old Jewish area with its fascinating museum, restaurants and history.

It is long way from St. Marks in price, degree of 'crowdedness' and ambiance, way off the beaten track. We would always stay there, but there are those Fodorites that would be horrified by this choice.

But,

On my second visit to Venice, I made a real effort to seek out interesting things to see besides Piazza San Marco and the Doges Palace. Here's what I did in 4 days.

Burano - I'm a photographer and really enjoyed the island

Ca d'Oro
Guggenheim
La Scuola Grande di San Rocco
Basilica (again)
Santa Maria della Salute
Il Frari
Accademia
Murano
wandered, wandered and wandered

Still haven't done a gondola ride!

Hi, butnot,

I'm planning my 4th trip, [1st for kids, 2nd for DH] at easter for a week. knowing they'll want to avoid crowds, I got hold of a great book called &quot;Venice for Pleasure&quot;. it's on amazon.

the author [sorry, forgotten his name] takes you on 4 walks off the beaten track, doing nothing much in particular. the point is NOT to make for all the tourist sites but to enjoy venice. of course, you can do the sites if you wish, as you'll go very close to them. but he encourages you to take the smallest calle, to look at the buildings themselves, to stop and have a coffee or meal on the way.

Take your time, don't feel you have to see everything, and you'll have a wonderful time.

regards, ann

Maybe I'm weird, but Basilica San Marco is the only church where I have wept uncontrollably upon seeing how indescribably beautiful it was, with all the marble flooring and columns, and all the gold and mosaics covering the walls and ceilings. Such a rich history as well.

It is very easy to avoid the lines to get in by simply making an entry reservation and taking your email confirmation to the head of the line.
http://www.alata.it/eng/BOOKING/sanmarco.asp

Otherwise, just go wandering away from San Marco and Rialto... very charming little squares, hidden corners, small canals...

Ignore the naysayers. Venice is lovely and can be truly magical at times. If you don't like the crowds, don't go where the crowds are. If you don't like the heat, don't go when it's hot.

Some of the people who complain about how nasty and crowded it is never seem to get past San Marco or the main tourist route between San Marco and Rialto. If you hate crowds, then get off that VERY beaten path!

As everyone else has said above, Venice can feel nearly deserted if you just take the time to walk a few blocks away from the crowds. I found a lovely square where there were practically no tourists and enjoyed chatting with an Italian mom while her cute kids played soccer. If you make the effort to seek out the places and things that appeal to you and avoid S. Marco in the afternoon when it's full of daytrippers, you won't be disappointed.

Oh.... how I miss Venice.

We also did not know what to expect. My husband did not want to go because his impressions (from his Sister who had been AGES ago in August was smelly, crowded, expensive, with some added thought he would have to walk around in hip waders). It took alot to get this trip done.

That said, we went in May a few years ago, rented an apartment, and spent 10 sublime days wandering, sitting, people watching, eating, sleeping... It was glorious.

Favorites -

San Girogio Maggiore to hear the Monks chant
Santa Maria Della Salute - my favorite church outside of Notre Dame
The &quot;Circle Tour&quot; on the vaparetto - just get on (I think it's #1, but check) and ride it around at sunset when you can still view the buildings.
A gondola ride - almost didn't do it - didn't want to be cheesy, and they are expensive, but we found someone we connected with, asked to stay off the Grand Canal, and it was a great night, going along the small canals at sunset, seeing things we never would have otherwise seen
Sitting outside at a cafe watching the local kids play soccer in &quot;our campo&quot; San Gimignano
Sitting on a small canal eating dinner, hearing the Campanille bells ring
Hearing the orchestras dueling on St Mark's Piazza
The Bascillica.... beautiful
Guidecca for lunch, looking back toward the other side
Dorsodoro - great part of Venice
Torcello - climbing the tower - the view is amazing
Hidden pockets everywhere.
The amazing treasures in the churches
Lying in bed with the windows open in our apartment, listening to the family next door sing &quot;Volare&quot;...
the friendliness of the Venetian people...

Safe, serene, mysterious, we can't wait to go back. I left a piece of my heart there.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply and tell me your lovely stories about being in Venice. I will be following your advice. For those who mentioned the importance of the time of year for the visit - we are going in early April, 2 weeks after Easter. I do not believe there will be much cruise activity at that time, since most of the ships don't ramp up their Mediterranean itineraries until later in the month. Hopefully that should alleviate the crowds a bit.

To Lorac - in the end, I couldn't imagine what could be my only trip to Italy without seeing Venice, despite the negativity I had read and heard. The length of our stay is a function of the type of trip I planned, allowing us enough time in each location to allow us to actually enjoy it - to rise leisurely, stroll about and get the flavor of the place, along with seeing some (not attempting 'all') of the must see sights.

To adventureseeker - how did you &quot;adjust to local time immediately&quot;?

To Zerlina - your sarcasm I really don't need. Why bother responding?
I will certainly spend time with a guide book before traveling, but the insight and kind help from the other Fodorites has helped me make many decisions about this trip, and the rest of the responders to my question have been more than helpful. And why the sense of offense about the Guggenheim?

To the rest of you - thanks again - and anyone who has more to add, I am printing it all out!

PS: If you want peace and quiet, absolutely visit the gorgeous Santa Maria dei Miracoli in Cannaregio (iirc). There were maybe two other people in there when I visited and it was so great to be able to sit in silence. It's really lovely.

Hi butnotrmpt, my husband, who is fairly well travelled, considers Venice his favourite city. I do too but it ties with Seville and Montepulciano for my favourites not to mention Amsterdam and Paris of course. And I haven't been to Greece yet. You will have a wonderful time I'm sure - lots of good ideas and recommendations from other Foderites.

Regarding the jet lag, we always nap in the afternoon then stay up late and adjust to local time usually within a day. But I cannot go anywhere after a long overnight flight without that nap - we tried last year to take the hop on hop off bus in Barcelona as our hotel room wasn't ready and I fell asleep five minutes after we got going.

I love Venice. It is just magical.My first glimpse of San Marco Square was after a lovely dinner with Globus our TG walked us down a dark alley and we came out at San Marco at about 10:00 PM. The Square was totally deserted and the sight of it all lit up just took my breath away.Dh has never seen Venice and I cannot wait to share it with him this coming May. I have longed to return to Venice since I was there 3 years ago.This time I will be with DH and we will have more time to just wander.
We never go to bed when we arrive in Europe after our overnight flight. That is the worse thing you can do if you want to adjust to your new time zone.At least it is for me. We keep going till night,have an early supper and go to bed about 9 PM. By the next day we have adjusted to the new time zone. I guess because I am usually so excited (7th Europe trip in May)I do not find it difficult to keep going. I just wish I could sleep on the plane but sleep eludes me.My biggest problem adjusting is when I get back home. It takes me about 1 week to stop waking up at 2:30 AM!!!I spend lots of time on my computer in the middle of the night!lol

There have been many threads debating how to best adjust to the time change when travelling to Europe. I think what you have to find is what's best for you. The first time I travelled to Europe, I stayed awake until 8:00 pm, with great difficulty, then I was up at 3:00 in the morning needing breakfast! The following trips I did the nap thing and it has worked for me. The important thing is to try to find what works best for you from the many recommendations.

Hi B,

&gt;I am unnerved by some of the comments about Venice.

Stop reading them.

&gt;is my hotel choice (Locanda Orseolo)
a mistake?

I think that it has gotten good reviews here and on www.tripadvisor.com

Truman Capote described Venice as a &quot;box of bon bons&quot;.

You needn't plan to visit every possible site. Just enjoy it.

Watch the sunrise over the Salute. Visit the Rialto fish market very early in the morning. Take a sunset cruise on the Grand Canal. Kiss a SO on the Rialto Bridge.

((I))

Count yourself lucky that you got into Locando Orseolo. We stayed there a few years ago. I wondered about all the great reviews about how nice the innkeepers were. Why did I really care? I'm not going there to make friends, I'm going to see Venice. But after meeting them and leaving there, it was truly the highlight of our trip. Every morning they were just dying to cook us eggs. We are American and I think they thought we would want eggs. We ate their delicious crepes instead. They gave us wonderful restaurant choices, booked our trains and tours for us, and were just pleasant to see after a day of touring. And our room on the canal was just adorable.

Venice is so small that everything is close to St. Marks. The beauty of Venice is that if you go a block this way or that way, the city completely changes and you will swear you are the only one in the world there.

Definitely do the square in the morning before all the annoying kids with birdseed on their arms arrive.

Take the walking tour the Locanda recommends. It was wonderful and made us feel more intimate with the city. There is also a boat tour they recommend which was great also. After seeing the water all day long it was great to get out in it. Both of these tours are staffed by locals.

There is a giant book that gives you the entire history of Venice. It is really long, but is very readable and well written. It is &quot;A History of Venice&quot; by John Julius Norwich. Start reading it now. It really makes you connect with the history of the place.

You will love it.

Dear Butnot..I was also surprised at the negative commentary about the Guggenheim and the cheap shot at Peggy. It is an amazing museum and, from the biographies, she was welcomed by Venetians. I think it is a tribute to Italy that this American woman, who lived an alternative lifestyle before the world knew we needed to make room for that category, was more comfortable in Venice than she was in Manhattan. There is much more on show at The Guggenheim than the Dalis and the Chagalls!

butnotrmpt,

We adjusted to local time immediately by getting right on track with it's time zone.

We were exhilarated and zonked from our long flight, but made a point not to give in and nap. We also went to bed and woke up when we normally would.

I was surprised at how easily we adjusted. (On day #2, we did sneak in an hour cat nap before dinner)