Thank you for responding, NYFS. I knew I'd get a heartfelt response from you. I'm not offended as I knew this was coming, but I feel I need to reply to some of your remarks.

"Sometimes, overly excited anticipation can thwart and distort first impressions."

Absolutely. I had such a clear vision of what I'd see and experience and feel, and it just didn't happen. I don't think it had anything to do with being overwhelmed with the size of the city, as we really enjoyed our day in Milan, and Verona, I don't think, could be classified as a small town.

"Does this mean you consider yourself an all-knowing traveler? Two days does not provide enough time and/or freedom to discover the heart and soul of Venice, let alone its many treasures."

Of course I don't consider myself an all-knowing traveler, and I apologize if that was implied. I succumbed and bought several souveniers, for myself and for family and friends. I guess you could say I'm being hypocritical to complain about all the vendors, then go support them by purchasing their wares. I'm aware of that. And you are correct in that two days is not enough, as I also stated a couple of times in my report. Having said that, many of the Venice admirers here say that they fell in love at first sight.

"Judging by your two "hit" restaurant choices (and what seems like a serious lack of quality restaurant research), I would say, if your goal was to experience some Venetian authenticity at modest expense, you made mediocre restaurant choices."

Admittedly, we did do some restaurant research, but for more moderately-priced restaurants. However, we had spent so much money on food by the time we got to Venice that we decided to scale down and just wing it. I'd heard that there are several good places in Campo Santa Margherita, so we took a shot there, and we were not disappointed. I'm sorry Taverna San Trovaso doesn't make your list, but we were very happy with our experience there.

"I'm not really sure what to say about any fodorite who would use this capricious, hyper-sensationalized term (Ugly Americans) in any trip report."

What more appropriate term would you use for this behavior? I don't know the origin of this phrase, and I didn't realize it wasn't PC to use it. If anything, it reinforces the grace of the Italian people to put up with behavior like this.

"if it was that appalling to you, why didn't you walk over to the offending person and put that donkey arse in his place?"

I was so stunned I couldn't move. DH and I just sat there, staring at each other, not believing what we were seeing. Of course, after the fact, I wished I had said something.

"The fact that you're near the Sea and there isn't a car and a bus to be found anywhere makes Venice one of the cleanest big cities in Europe."

Yet it didn't feel that way to me. Sure Venice has more tourist traffic, but Verona has almost five times as many inhabitants. That's why I speculated that maintenace must be more difficult because of the canals.

"I can't believe I've never seen a rat in Venice. Jocelyn goes to Venice her first time, for a whole two days, and sees rats climb out of the water."

It was kind of hard not to notice him, swimming alongside our gondola. :)

"Jocelyn, dear, please stay in Tulsa and spend your vacation time in pretty, clean San Diego. Your take on Venice is killing me."

Now that's uncalled for. If I had complained about every aspect of my trip, saying that Italy in general is dirty, unappealing, etc, I can understand that comment. But what I'm hearing from you in this statement is that if someone doesn't agree with you, they are WRONG and you'll make them pay for it. You said in the other Venice post that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I simply described Venice as I saw it, with many qualifiers as to what may have tainted my view.

thanks for the info Jocelyn! Marsha brought a shrink sample thing to girls night out Wed...Most of us leave the tenth..to Venice first for us..then verona,bologna,Lucca,cinque terra then THE VILLA!!! cant wait... Psot is great.. We just had our Venice hotel book two dinner reservations..there is too much to research and worry about..I havent even heard of these,so what the heck On Our Spain trip we had the worst food from the travel books and the best from the hotel suggestions..hopefully we'll luck out again!

Karen

Jocelyn, dear, my statement telling you "where to go" is what I would call one of those barbs you had asked for. Of course I wasn't serious. I just wanted to end my 'battle of words' on a dramatic note and cleverly let you know that I've been to San Diego and Dallas, and I've been on TV in Tulsa. I sense you're good humored enough to take the ribbing. Let me apologize if I pushed you too hard.

<i>&quot;I don't think it had anything to do with being overwhelmed with the size of the city&quot;</i>

I didn't necessarily mean for &quot;size&quot; comparisons to mean measurement. Photographers who love shooting in Venice commonly refer to Venice as a city with &quot;sensory overload&quot; - there's a photo-op at every turn. People who aren't used to this often don't know what to look at first. Because of Venice's unique visual impact, sometimes it seems comforting for newbies to focus on what appears familiar or relatable to our everyday lives, or just plain look down. I remember thinking, ages ago, seeing Venice is like seeing a really good but complicated movie. You appreciate it more the second time around.

<i>&quot;many of the Venice admirers here say that they fell in love at first sight&quot;</i>

I hear what your saying and I understand. Truth be told, this was my experience with Florence. At first, I didn't fully get it. But, because I adore Renaissance art, I knew I had to return. By the second or third visit, I had completely fallen in love (although I absolutely refuse to go there in warmer months because of tourism).

<i>&quot;I'm sorry Taverna San Trovaso doesn't make your list&quot;</i>

No need to apologize. I've eaten at San Trovaso several times. Please bear in mind that food lovers in New York City have the best-of-the-best at our fingertips so our tastes tend to be less forgiving. Certainly, there are many fine dishes to be found at San Trovaso and these dishes are much, much more authentic than any Venetian dish you can find in Tulsa or Dallas. I prefer not to play it safe...and adventurous people do adventurous things, like sit their butt down at Alla Vedova and eat with the Venetians, cheaply. This was never an issue about money as far as I'm concerned.

<i>&quot;What more appropriate term would you use for 'Ugly American' behavior?</i>

I believe William J. Lederer and Eugene Burdick coined the phrase in 1958 with their bestseller, &quot;The Ugly American.&quot;

I can't stand political correctness but I also can't stand masochisitic, self-deprecating characterizations that serve no healthy, useful purpose.

<i>&quot;If anything, it reinforces the grace of the Italian people to put up with behavior like this.</i>

But what does your comment say about the enormous grace of the millions of Americans whom Italians love to host year after year? Nothing.

<i>&quot;I was so stunned I couldn't move.&quot;</i>

Look, the truth is most people shy away from confrontation. I don't. I think the best way to deal with ugly people is by discreetly getting in their face with a mirror, so to speak.

<i>&quot;It was kind of hard not to notice him, swimming alongside our gondola.&quot;</i>

Now here you use the singular him, one rat. Maybe you embellished for dramatic effect. Tell me, was the rat doing the back stroke before he climbed out of the canal? Kidding.

No hard feelings, Jocelyn. All the best to you.

Karen,

What a great itinerary! I trust you'll have a great time and that you'll fill us all in when you get back.

NYCFS,

I'm glad to hear that your comments were made in jest. It's hard to tell sometimes in a venue like this.

I think we may have found common ground with your comments about Florence. I also like your description of Venice as being &quot;sensory overload.&quot; That's the phrase I've been using to describe my perception of Rome--I hadn't thought about it applying to Venice, as the stimulation is mainly visual, and Rome assaults all of your senses.

Of course all the best to you, and everyone else on this forum.

P.S. It was more of a doggie paddle, actually. ;)

Ah, Jocelyn, you've got the gift of humor. You are blessed, indeed.