Using a tripod in Rome?
 

Does anyone have experience using a tripod for outdoor photography in Rome? I am wondering if I should expect anyone to question or stop me when setting up my tripod in places such as St Peter's Square, outside the Colosseum, etc. Thanks!

While I have no experience using a tripod, I think that no one will care in St Peter's Square; it's as big as a half dozen football fields. But you wouldn't try to set it up INside the basilica (or any other church), would you?

Outside the Colosseum, be prepared for the "gladiators" (in full costume) to want to be part of your pictures, and then expect that you will pay them 5 (or more likely 10, now) euros a pop.

Best wishes,

Rex

I've never had a problem using a tripod outdoors in Rome, or anywhere in Italy, but they are usually forbidden inside.

As long as you keep your camera pointed at the tourist sites, and not any government buildings, you should be OK...especially at night.

Jim, I hope Nutella doesn't mind me posing a brief question on this thread (and I'm not sure how I'd take it back!)

Anyway, I have never traveled with a tripod, but was wondering if you had a recommendation for a tripod suitable for travel? Was packing size, carrying weight a concern in your purchase?

Depending on the monument, time of day, and whether police are around, using a tripod can solicit a request for permits. I've been approached on several occasions. Sometimes I had papers and sometimes not. If you don't have the proper paperwork, the police will shut you down. For some reason, the Trevi fountain is particularly troublesome, especially at sunrise. Tripods in the Forum definitely require a permit.

Rome is better than Paris. The police at the Louvre will run after you and ask for the film. In Rome, I've mastered the hide and duck technique and wait until the police leave the area before I set up. Chances of getting your tripod shot in Rome are fairly good.

Clifton. when I travel I carry a Leica table tripod with me. It is only about a foot long and is extremely flexible and sturdy. it is around $90 US and you will also need ball and socket head to suit; although at around $170 US, I purchased an alternative ballhead with 1/4 to 3/8 adaptors.
I shoot slide film and use it with an SLR camera and fixed/zoom lenses. If you can place this tripod on a sturdy support, there is no reason why you can't obtain good sharp images. The Leica tripod part number is 14100. Any further advice let us know

i never thought about this. i only have ever used one of those tiny table top tripods and i wouldn't expect much trouble with that.

however, i'm a little naive and don't fully understand the issue that an amateur looking person would have using a full-sized tripod. Of course, a professional shoot that impedes traffic or otherwise blocks access, etc one would expect to need a permit. Also, i understand that some private places do not want professional quality shots taken as they could be used commercially-therefore robbing the organisation of much needed royalties.

Also, i understand if a tripod could harm a delicate environment.

but what is the issue for outdoor areas that are clearly in the public domain? not saying i disagree with it, just have never heard of an amateur being hassled when shooting in an outdoor, public place with regular, amateur equipment (no special lighting, professional models, multiple cameras, etc).

Thank you navgator, that's very useful information. I'll check that Leica model out!

I have a cheapy tripod, from Target I think, that extends to about 40" and collapses to <1 ft. Weighs about 2lb.

((I))

Thanks ira. I should probably shop around a little too, and Target is as good a place to start as any. I have a very nice full height tripod and it collapses fairly short, but it's very bulky. So, I'll never pack it for a trip, when I'd enjoy it most.

I know a professional photographer who uses a telescoping "mono-pod" for improving sharpness when he's roaming and shooting more-or-less casually. Obviously, it's not as good as a true tripod (and it doesn't help you get into the shot, if that's an objective) but it's very easily carried and very unobtrusive.

Don't know about Rome but their's a big sign banning their use at Milan's Duomo.

<i>&quot;however, i'm a little naive and don't fully understand the issue&quot;</i>

walkinaround, this is evidenced by the questions you asked. Here are a few considerations:

a) There is no such thing as &quot;an amateur looking person&quot; and local authorities who protect and enforce copyright law (yes, many monuments are copyrighted) do not have any profiling training. Anyone with a tripod, regardless how cheap or flimsy, is assumed to be professional. Proclaiming &quot;student&quot; status or ignorance of the language will get you nowhere.

b) A &quot;professional&quot; shoot requires nothing more than a photographer, his/her camera, and a tripod. Most travel and leisure images that appear on magazine covers, especially those of architecture, nature, and cityscapes, require nothing more. Not one person gets inconvenienced.

c) A quality tripod can almost guarantee perfect sharpness for the area of focus. Perfect sharpness is the goal of any professional publication. The ability to produce a large-format version (where perfect sharpness is most crucial) of any image is always a consideration. Many amateur photographers care enough about quality to endure traveling with a tripod. Just because an image may not sell or there is no intent to sell doesn't mean an amateur photographer must settle for less perfection. The perfect image, as illusive as that sounds, is always the goal, pro or not.

d) A three-year-old child is more environmentally unsafe than any tripod I've used.

<i>&quot;but what is the issue for outdoor areas that are clearly in the public domain?&quot;</i>

Rome was much more lenient before the Jubilee Year. The city spent a fortune to clean up many buildings and now they want to collect permit fees from professional photography assignments. Rome views it's monuments as &quot;art properties.&quot; It will be assumed that any photographer with a tripod is shooting to make income from the sale of his &quot;art property&quot; image. Therefore, the authorities require proper permits and proof of payment of those fees from anyone &quot;assumed&quot; to be professional.

The Gitzo is my tripod of choice but there's nothing cheap about it. Whatever weight I lost with the lighter carbon, I gained with my Linhof head. Oh well, no pain no gain.

You may have heard of the trick of attaching a long string to a screw that you screw into the tripod thread on your camera. A company called Kirk has made such an accessory and they are selling it for $30. www.kirkphoto.com/accessories.html
I've never tried shooting this way, but I made my own with a cinch strap and a Bogen quick-release plate. I'm probably going to bring it with me to London just to see how it works out.

FWIW, my travel tripod is a Bogen Compact Digi Tripod 714SHB. It folds down to 14 inches, comes with its own little carrying bag, and weighs just over 2 pounds. I put a Bogen monopod head on it, which weighs an extra pound. It will only bear about 5.5 pounds, which is fine for most of my needs. Hope this helps someone.

Unfortunately, if someone can think of a product, they'll make it and find a way to sell it.

Sorry, sunny16. That's the biggest waste of $30 I've ever seen. If I ever saw anyone using such a thing, I'm not sure I could hold back my roaring guffaw.

sunny16, I could not figure out what the long string would do so I had to go to the website to see. I have to agree with NYCFS -- I'm afraid I'd laugh out loud if I saw someone using this. But hey, let us know if you think it works. I have been wrong before, once or twice. :-D

walkinaround, not every photographer with a tripod is a professional, but you can bet that every professional has a tripod.

Clifton, I use a Gitzo carbon fiber tripod...sorry, I forgot the model number. They are quite expensive, but small, light and very sturdy for anything under a 300mm lens.

I also carry a Bogen tabletop model for shooting indoors because it is less conspicuous than a regular tripod.

Like I said, I've never been hasseled about a tripod, outdoors, in Italy...and I've shot extensively there.

Interestingly, I'm hasseled more in the USA than anywhere else. But that's the climate we live in today. No big deal.

Carrying a tripod is a hassle. Unless you're really dedicated, a tabletop model that fits in your bag will work fine.

I'm still trying to figure out what using a tripod has to do with focus. Either the focus is set correctly, or it isn't.

If your film isn't fast enough, I suppose you might have to slow down the shutter to get an exposure in fading light, requiring stability.

Even opening the aperture wide doesn't create any depth of field issues at &quot;scenic&quot; distances. But my f1.2 is plenty fast enough for anything I've ever wanted to do with Astia 100F.

If you want to shoot time exposures, maybe you could use a clampod. You can make one yourself by welding a standard mount to a pair of vise-grips.

&lt;&lt;I'm still trying to figure out what using a tripod has to do with focus. Either the focus is set correctly, or it isn't.&gt;&gt;

Well, I'm no student of photography, but it seems intuitively obvious that movement is the enemy of clear sharp focus. And it would seem a rare human being that could maintain as motionless a position as a metal tripod.

Hey, I didn't invent the thing, and I have no intention of dropping $30 on this thing. :) Seriously, the string is supposedly an old trick that I'd heard about way before I saw this product. I figure it couldn't hurt to try it out since it will pack up into nothing on my trip, although I usually prefer to lean on something in a pinch.

Robespierre, fast film is not an option when you are hoping to sell a photo for publication (too much grain). So if you are limited to 50 or 64, and if the light is not all you might wish, you will have to compromise somewhere -- either aperture, which might reduce your depth of field depending on the subject, or shutter speed, which will definitely affect how sharp the finished picture is. A tripod allows you to avoid most of these problems, not to mention getting shots at dusk or evening.

Marilyn, When Nutella says &quot;outdoor photography in Rome,&quot; I take it to mean bright daylight. With plenty of light, she can shoot at 1/1000 or faster with a moderate aperture, even with fine-grain (slow) film. At that speed, camera motion will not affect the image.

Even if she has to open up full to shoot that fast, I don't think depth of focus/field is going to be an issue in St. Peter's Square or the Colosseum.

My advice to Nutella would be to leave the tripod at home and anticipate acceptable results with handheld camera and consumer-grade film.

A tripod will eliminate camera movement when using a slow shutter speed. Focus and aperture have nothing to do with it. It will also slow you down and force you to compose more carefully. At least it should.

Shooting for publication does usually require a sharp image, but not always. Sometimes intentional blur &amp; motion are key elements of a photo. But that's not the same thing as sloppy camera movement.

And sometimes fast, grainy film is also the desired effect. It just depends on what you're after. Digital slrs now produce nearly grainless (noise free) images up to 800 iso. This has been a great boon to travel shooters...both amateur and professional.

But lots of photographers still shoot with grainy films like Kodachrome 200, or Tri-X B&amp;W, but they are now in the minority.

Do you need to shoot off a tripod? I'd wager that 95% of what you see published in travel magazines is shot hand-held. Dusk &amp; night shots are, of course, the exception to that. A tabletop tripod and a table, or a wall or something else to set it on will get you through most travel situations...outdoors.

Nutella didn't ask whether she needed a tripod. She asked whether she'd have a problem with any authorities when using one. So I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming she knows what she's doing and wants to use a tripod. (Maybe she's taking night shots.)

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread! (I posted this sentiment earlier today but for some weird reason my message doesn't show up now, at least to my eyes).

Thanks Marilyn, that's exactly what I was asking for - I know the photo advice is well meaning but I was looking for cultural/travel advice :)

BTW, like NYCFS and Jim, I have a carbon fibre Gitzo. I wouldn't dream of going on a photo expedition to Italy without it!

Robespierre, I won't be carrying the tripod during the day. I'll be using it for dawn, dusk and night. And more than in Rome, I'll be elsewhere in Italy doing landscapes.

Sunny 16, I guess I had a delayed reaction...
cool screen name :)

I'll reiterate my original answer: a clampod will steady the camera for long exposures and not upset the bureaucrats. They're also much more portable than a tripod.

<i>Nutella didn't ask whether she needed a tripod. She asked whether she'd have a problem with any authorities when using one.</i>

OK...I guess my first answer (3rd. in the thread) answered that. I was also responding to some of the other posts.

Hope you have a great trip and come back with great photos.

Jim, thanks for the additional information. I;ve been having a look-see at the Gitzos on their corporate site. Very nice pieces of equipment, but out of my amateur league for now, I think.

I have found one that's cheap but light and packs small, so I may try that one for now. At least so I can get some decent city lights shots with a good exposure.

Yikes! I'm so glad I'm not teaching this class. But here are some thoughts:

Even on a sunny day in Rome (let me think...do I know a professional artist who enjoys shooting in direct sunlight?), there may be a door detail, an alleyway scene, a nun coming out of a confessional, a fruit stand, a faded fresco on a shaded building, or any number of photographic opportunities that offer a magical story but little light. If depth of field is my goal (every last shadow detail in extreme focus), f32 will be my goal, especially if I shoot 4x5. Impossible to do without a tripod.

All artsy-fartsy effects aside, shadow detail is the mark of a true professional. Any trained eye can spot an impostor a mile away. A good tripod can really be a photo artist's best friend. I take mine everywhere, even if I'm shooting with a wimpy digital. I just love having my hands free and off the camera.

I know some of the biggest names in architecture and travel photography (granted, they only work for the finest publications - who else could afford our fees?) and I can share this little secret: slower shutter speeds with the help of a tripod and ISO's of 100 or less (even in digital) are very much a part of their magical formulas. I know one or two who hate tripods, who reluctantly shoot with ISO 400, and only shoot 35mm but I would wager that Jim Tardio would lose his wager, especially if we're talking about Travel &amp; Leisure and Architectural Digest magazines.

Of course, photography advice is much like travel advice, everything often depends on everything else and nothing is absolute. Blur and grain do have their creative place and for many, shallow depth of field seems perfectly acceptable.

Rules are meant to be broken and I love living life with wild abandon. Goodness knows, some really great photographs happened by accident. Happy shooting!

just wanted to clarify... some of you guys/gals really seem know your stuff (and jim, i've seen your photos which prove it!) and i'd be a fool to ignore photography advice. it's great to see it here on this board - photography is such a big part of travel for many of us. so i appreciate any and all input! ...just don't try to talk me out of my tripod :)

No one is trying to &quot;talk you out of&quot; your tripod. But if you risk being hassled and possibly fined, don't you think you should be considering alternatives?

You began this thread by asking if you would be questioned or stopped if you set up your tripod in Rome. The answer was shortly forthcoming from those who have been there and done that: probably.

Others (myself included) then offered possible workarounds, including alternate stabilization devices and photographic technique that could achieve your purpose, that of making photographs in Rome.

But you insist on taking your tripod. Very well. Write us from jail. But if you intend to flout the rules, <i>why did you bother even asking???</i>

<i>&quot;Very well. Write us from jail.&quot;</i>

Oh Robes, lighten up. No one is going to jail. You're sounding like a control-freak curmudgeon.

And you're sounding like a prissy little school-marm.

<i>Yikes! I'm so glad I'm not teaching this class.</i>

So am I.

Stock travel photography...the kind you see in Travel &amp; Leisure (whose April issue cover shot was obviously taken in direct, harsh, midday sun), is typical of what's being published today.

There's a good bit of difference between fine art photography and stock travel photography.

I just attended a seminar sponsered by National Geographic Traveler Magazine and Santa Fe workshops. The main speaker was photographer Jim Richardson whose work has appeared in countless magazines and books.

A great deal of his signature shots were taken on the fly...a row boat, or small fishing boat, a subway platform, a small airplane. Hardly the places for a tripod.

Besides, many of the best travel shots are fleeting moments. By the time you fiddled with a tripod the moment would be gone.

Take a look at <i>Henri Cartier-Bresson's, The Decisive Moment</i>. He would shoot by pre-focusing, and then at the &quot;Decisive Moment&quot;, bring the camera to his eye and snap the picture.

Although Cartier-Bresson is famous for being a street shooter, travel and street shooting share many of the same techniques.

Good travel shooting is fluid. It requires you to be both a particpant and a bystander, and to know when and which one to be.

It's a neverending education. I make a part of my living doing this, and with each seminar or class I attend I learn something new.

If any of you are interested, there are plenty of travel/photography vacation packages offered to locations all over the world. Many are taught and hosted by the likes of David Alan Harvey, Bob Krist, and Steve McCurry. I can tell you that shooting with these guys is an invaluable learning experience. In December, I'm attending a 10-day class in Trinidad and Havana taught by Ernesto Bazan...I can't wait.

I know this may seem like too much for many of you who just want to take good pictures. But if it's important to you, I'm sure you'll enjoy the learning experience, and have a lot of fun in the process.

Does anyone have any photography advice for shooting from the inside of a Roman jail? I'm a little concerned about the lighting - I will have a tripod, but they'll probably take it away from me ;)

The issue won't arise. Because they'll take your camera, too.

{:o)

That was supposed to be my curmudgeon emoticon <b><font color="BLUE">{:oþ</font></b>

My husband just photoed about all of Paris and Rome frequently using a &quot;tabletop&quot; type tripod. He was not confronted or arrested by police in either city - in fact he even photographed some police officers in St. Peter's square. Of course, I was a little embarrassed when he would lie on the ground to focus his camera!

Nutella, you can steady your camera against the bars. And don't worry about the light -- Photoshop CS has an amazing Shadows and Highlights filter. :-D

I bought Phil Flash a T-shirt that says &quot;I Am A Professional -- Do Not Try This At Home&quot; for exactly those moments when he is prone on a Tokyo sidewalk or up on the stage with the dancers at a village fiesta to get the shot he wants.

I cannot tell you how many times he has been hassled about his tripod (whereupon I put on that &quot;never saw him before in my life&quot; look). Once a museum guard made him stop using a pencil (yes, a pencil) to steady his camera against a display case. I wonder what the ruling would be on &quot;the string?&quot;