Upper half of Spain, 2nd attempt.
 

Hi; We had an itinerary for travel to Spain this year, but it didn't happen. Actually I liked our first itinerary better, but this was a compromise with our friends.

So, 1. My wife and I fly N/S, Boston to Madrid on Iberia. <August 24th>

2. Will stay in Madrid one night and walk off jet lag. We arrive at the airport at 7:20am. Using points at the Westin. <August 25th>

3. Early flight on Iberia to Santiago and meet our friends. <August 26th and 27th>

4. Rent a car and drive to Salamanca. <August 28th and 29th>

5. Drive to Leon. <August 30th and 31st>

6. Drive to Santillana del Mar. <September 1st and 2nd> Will visit Balboa as a day trip.

7. Drive to San Sebastian. < September 3rd, 4th and 5th> Have booked Hotel Maria Cristina using points and dollars.

8. Drive to Burgos. <September 6th and 7th> Looking at the Marriott A.C. Hotel.

9. Drive our friends to the airport for their flight home. <September 8th>

10. Drive to Toledo. <September 8th and 9th> If there was a bus or shuttle to get to Toledo from the airport and back to the airport, we would do that. Will not go through Madrid.

11. Drive to the airport for our flight home <September 10th>

So, hotel suggestions would be good. For us, I think 150 euro works.

I have looked at some of the Poradors and they seem expensive, but our friends may want to stay in a few.

My wife and I like the very old Paradors, so we shall see. Thanks for any help. Richard

Be aware that Euskal Jaiak, a week long festivities celebrating Basque culture, is going on in San Sebastián in early September. Could be great fun, but be prepared:
http://www.donostiakultura.com/index...id=396&lang=en
http://www.lacunza.com/events/euskal-jaiak.php

You could be up for some great events. Basque music and dance can be wonderful, and during Euskal Jaiak many things will take place in the Plaza de la Constitución - the main plaza in the Parte vieja/Old town - and in Plaza de Trinidad just off Calle 31 de Agosto, the upper street in the Parte vieja. Rarely seen really drunk people in San Sebastián apart from tourists (lived here and visited some twenty times), but the Sanfermines and Euskal Jaiak could be an exception...

Here's the program for the 2012 edition. With some planning, you could be up for some great Basque experiences: http://www.donostiakultura.com/image.../EJAIAKCAS.pdf

Traditional music and dance in Plaza de la Constitución: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2udkrTcYmQ

Revulgo posted this earlier about this week of festivities:

"Sagardo Eguna, or cider day --free samples of cider are given in the plaza-- will be celebrated on the first Saturday of September marking the start of a week dedicated to Basque culture known as Euskal Jaiak. Throughout the week there will be various activities organized to showcase the traditions this ancient civilization. There will be local sport exhibitions such as the row boat races, stone lifting and tree trunk cutting. Open air concerts featuring Basque music, traditional dance troupes, local craftsmen demonstrating their time tested techniques and the famous "bersolaris" (oral poets who improvise) are all part of the week long festivities".
http://www.donostia.org/info/sanseba...=Fiestas&doc=D

You should visit Avila and/or Segovia on the way to Salamanca if you never saw them before. Both would require an extra day at least. Avila is the better town for a short visit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...75757180/show/

I think that you would be going by Madrigal de las Altes Torres on your way north (sp?) where there is a convent that was Queen Isabella's home as a child. When we were there, it was possible to visit.

I would just read reviews on TA. Other people prefer booking.com. I might also take away nights in Santillana and add to San Sebastian.

Thanks Michael; We have been to both Avila and Segovia. Not sure about our friends. We also have been to Toledo for one night. But it was cold. This time we will sit, drink wine and watch the world go by. Of course a whole day to walk the old town again.

Kimhe; I wondered about a San Sebastian festival. We love crowds and meeting people, so that will work perfect for us. Great information. Thanks much.

Egbert; Love booking.com We would consider only one night in Santillana, but that was a compromise with our friends.

A friend of there's who lives in Spain, suggested two nights.

But we can do a whole day in Balboa for one of those days.

I suggest you look at a map-you are doing an awful lot of zig zagging!!!

chapla; Actually I have. But I agree with you too.

Santagio was not on my origional itinerary. But our friends wanted Santiago and that was a compromise.

It was out of the way for me, but I am not unhappy with going to Santiago. Great city.

We have used Booking.com in many countries and multiple times in Spain and like them very much.

As noted above, take a look at a map. You will be spending a lot of time in cars. Although there are some multi-lane highways, not all highways are that and travel by car can take longer than you think.

Agree about Santillana....it is very small, not much there except an interesting ( and horrific)
Museum of Torture.

Thanks Golemtoo; I have checked times between all our stops. Usually between two and three hours. Probably will take us longer, as I always have interesting stops on the way to our next destination.

However, one exception.

Santiago that our friends wanted to visit, probably with a few stops will take about seven hours to get to Salamanca, mostly on major highways.

Will look at timing again, but the itinerary is now fixed.

Most of my driving trips in Europe [26] are on secondary roads. Main highways only when necessary.

I'm more concerned the size of the car rental because of their suitcases. Probably a van. We travel light.

Thanks danon; Can't disagree with anything you say. But it's our friends choice.

Leaving Leon, perhaps at 9am and traveling secondary roads, with a few stops on the way to Santillana, it will be mid to late afternoon.

Either, train or bus ot tour bus the next day to Balboa for most of the day.

We will make it work.

I agree about the zigzagging. Flying to Santiago de Compostela and then driving to Salamanca? That's more than half way back to Madrid! You'd be better off just visiting Salamanca towards the end of the trip and could just take a train from Madrid. Also agree about Santillana - I couldn't leave fast enough and had just planned as a daytrip. I'd take these days and add to the Basque Country - a couple more days in San Sebastian, Bilbao or perhaps a small village along the coast (Getaria, Lekeitio, etc...).

If you must stay in Santillana, at least make a day trip to lovely Santander - enjoy a swim and sandy beaches!

Here is a hotel in Santiago we highly recommend. Actually we first found it on Booking.com. Only drawback it is about a 15 minute walk to the Cathedral. We liked it better than Reyes Catolicos.

http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/a-ta...-18;interval=1

Additionally you will need an international driver's license. You will not need unless you are stopped by the cops who can get testy if you do not have one. And I am sure you know this but renting a stick shift will save you hundreds of dolalrs.

I love those parts of Spain, but have you considered doing the loop the other direction--starting in San Sebastian. I have done that drive from Santiago to Salamanca and it was long. The destinations are great---I think you can improve the sequence.

<i>Agree about Santillana....it is very small, not much there ...</i>

The Altamira cave and its replica are nearby.

Thanks Golemtoo.

Listen all, I believe I have agreed with your critiques. But I had to work with friends who had their own ideas. They are going to Barcelona and then flying to Santiago. [We have been to Barcelona and could go again, but not this trip.] They also wanted Porto, but not this trip for me. I really wanted to go to Salamanca, but a compromise.

I am going to give up Salamanca [2] and add a night to Santiago and Leon.

I will ask them to give up a night in Santillana and add it to San Sebastian.

So now, 1. Madrid [1] Fly to Santiago.

2. Santiago [3] Lot to see in this area.

Will look for a bus to get to Leon.

Now we don't need a car for the first five nights with them.

3. Leon [3] We can visit Oviedo by train or bus from Leon. We would not have had time to visit Oviedo with only two days in Leon. So give a little, get a little.

Rent a car when leaving Leon.

4. Santillana [1] On leaving Santillana, a visit to Balbao and the Guggenheim Museum.

5. San Sebastian [4] With the festival the first week + of September, that will be great fun.

6. Burgos [2]

Next day drop them at the airport.

7. Toledo [2]

8. Leave the next day for home.

Question: IS there a shuttle from the Madrid airport to Toledo and back?

Will be looking at booking.com as I like their reviews better than TA. But I will also look at TA.

All hotel suggestions welcome. A quick repeat, our hotel budget is about 150euro.

I think with renting a van, I will let our friends rent and split the cost. Much easier for me, as I always rent a small car.

Will make sure he has a IDP.

OK, I'm feeling better.

Now to open the lock box with Ted, a very reasonable person.

Thanks Bob and Michael; I was making a few changes while you posted.

Regarding paradores and your friends' desire to stay in them: See if you can satisfy your friends by booking ones that are in substantial towns (I hear the one in Leon is fab) so that you have choices for eating other than the paradores restaurants.

Bear in mind that day trips often mean spending the bulk of your time in the target town when it is dead -- closed up for most of the afternoon for lunch. It doesn't make much of a difference for a near-museum town like Toledo, but you might end up with quite a false impression of a place like Oviedo if you are there mainly between 11am and 5pm.

Thanks goldenautumn; For Oviedo, we love the articture.

So I think in late August it will be busy.

We need people surounding us while we are viewing the town. But I will keep that in mind.

Perhaps a day visit south to Zamora?

You are are VERY good friend to your travel companions to give up Salamanca. I hope you make it there some day!

I loved Toledo and thought it well worth 2 full days. I'm glad to see that you are giving it some time.

Enjoy!

kja; I know, Salamanca has the whole old town designated as a UNESCO World Hertage site.

Not sure if I will ever make it back to Spain after this trip.

We do want to go to Toledo again.

If I could get my wife to agree to add two more nights, for a total of 18, when we leave the friends off at the airport, we could then take the bus to Salamanca. About 2 1/2 hour trip.

Then rent a car a spend the last two nights in Toledo.

Tough sell.

My wife would not agree to the extra two nights.

That's OK. We will just end up in Toledo.

Welcome to The Compromise Tour of Spain.

Not yet. Have to talk to the friends.

Whatever it is, we always enjoy our trips.

If there are any words I can say to convince your wife, or your traveling companions, to visit Salamanca, just let me know!

In the meantime, let me note that as I struggle to axe places from the wish-list for my next trip, I'm spending a lot of time reminding myself that it's not about what I skip, it's about what I will have the good fortune to see.

I haven't gone to northern Spain yet, but you'll be seeing MANY places that I hope to see when I do go there. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful and memorable journey. (And I'll count on your input when I do finally get there!)

hi iris,

I'm really sorry that you can't seem to fit Salamanca into your itinerary; we went there 25+ years ago and it was lovely. such a shame to miss it when you are so close.

I had a look at renfe.com and instead of staying in Madrid when you arrive, you could get a train from Madrid to Salamanca quite easily - there are quite a few direct trains per day taking 2 hours 45 mins. however to get to Santiago from Salamanca is much harder - the 13.50 departure would not arrive until about 20.00 and involves a change at somewhere called Medina dal Campo with a long wait.

you would however have 24 hours or so in Salamanca.

Hi kja and annhig; I'm considering my options. Not easy.

These are good friends, but it be came complicated when we invited then on this trip. They have their ideas and changed my initial itinerary presented to them.

We have been to the Baltic countries with them and they came on our 50th to Scandinavia. Plus a few others.

Another thought would be to meet them in Leon. About 4 1/2 hour drive from Santiago. They would drive.

I have found no good bus or train options from Santiago to Leon. Will look at regional flights. So then we would get to Salamanca. MAYBE

So thanks both.

The Compromise Tour of Northern Spain. I like that.

The G has given me a few good suggestions.

That is another topic that I am sure raise some old memories, fond and otherwise and opinions of every stripe, traveling with friends and relatives.

Although we have traveled with friends and relatives, we usually avoid it. And my wife walked the 500 mile Camino with her sister.

I've arranged trips for up to 25 people, 12, 8, a number of 6's and 4's. Working on 8 to 12 for my 80th BD.

But this one has been my biggest challenge so far.

I know it will work out, just have to be patient.

I have fond memories from years ago of Salamanca for a stay and also Segovia, Avila along with Madrid.

Bill in Boston

I remember Avilla with all the bits of St. Teresa on show as being downright spooky.

but interesting.

Thanks Bill; I think. You all have me re-configuring this trip. Richard in Hampstead, NH

I will help kja if it is possible to encourage Salamanca to your friends..Sergovia, Avila el al... Oh how I envy you this trip.. Been there, done that and would do it again in a New York minute!!!. My fond memories of these places are of this last year..Avila???Spooky??? Hm-m-m!!!

Have not talked to our friends yet, but this is my latest thought.

1. R/T Boston to Madrid.

2. Arrive at Madrid airport at 7:20am.

3. Rent a car and drive to Segovia [2 nights]

4. Drive to Salamanca [3 nights] Perhaps a stop in Avila.

5. Drive to Leon and drop off the car and meet our friends [2 nights] They will drive from Santiago to Leon and have a van. About 4 1 /2 hours.

6. Santillana del Mar [1 or 2 nights] Will attempt to convince the friends we only need one night in Santillana and then four nights in San Sebastian.

7. San Sebastian [3 or 4 nights] Festival fun time while we are there.

8. Burgos [2 nights]

9.Drive to the Madrid airport for their departure. Will leave the van or and rent a small car for our drive to Toledo.

10. Is there a shuttle or bus from the airport to Toledo?? I have looked with no sucess.

11. We go on to Toledo [2 nights]

12. Fly home

Iris - that looks much better. Do try to fit in Avilla if you can - those bits of St. Teresa are gruesome but very memorable.

I couldn't find a shuttle from the airport to Toledo either, but there are loads of trains from the main station in Madrid proper which take 30 mins or so. you could possibly return the van to the train station rather than the airport, if you decide to continue by train.

Thanks annhig; The van will be in their name, so I will let them return the car at the airport. I can rent for about 90US for two days.

Avila will be on the way from Segovia to Salamanca, so most likely we will stop.

Feel much better about the itinerary, as it is very similar to what I had first presented to them.

What about saying goodbye to friends and the van in Burgos and renting a car in Burgos to drive to Toledo?

goldenautumn. That is a good idea. A lot easier than us going to the airport and then looking for the car rental counters.

Will look at car rentals in Burgos. Thanks