Upper Engadine Switzerland, help please!
 

I've read several posts over the years about the wonders of the Engadine, and it's been on my radar for some time.

I'm in the very early stages of planning a trip to Switzerland in March/April and I'm quite keen to include the Engadine this time.

I realize March isn't the ideal month, but it's the only time that will work for us given work and training schedules. We often travel to Switzerland at odd times, but March is still ski season, so I have some concerns about crowds, high season rates, etc.. We're hoping to do quite a bit of winter hiking. We'll be traveling from Perth, Australia.

I'd appreciate any and all suggestions regarding the Engadine, and advice on where to begin my research. At the moment I know absoulutely nothing about the area, other than I've wanted to explore it for some time.

Suggestions regarding specific places to stay and walk trails to explore, etc will be much appreciated We'd prefer unserviced apartments to save a bit of money.

Actually, I don't know the distinction between the Upper and Lower Engadin (which I've spelled incorrectly). Any information will help.

I've just now located and saved all the old posts I could find here on Fodor's regarding the Engadin and will read them, but will still appreciate any assistance as I'm a bit in the dark on this one.

We're looking at a two week long trip.

Hi Melinq,

I'm not sure of the exact distinctions between the Upper and Lower Engadin, but basically the Upper Engadin is the southwestern portion, that part with St. Moritz as its largest town. It is the highest part. The Lower Engadin is in the northeast section, and Scuol is its largest town, I think.

I've spent time in Scuol and in Zuoz, both of which are great bases. When I go back, though, I would stay in the sweet little village of Sils in the Upper Engadin next to Lake Sils. If you have time to stay in two places, I would recommend Sils and then Scuol.

The best guide to the area is the travel pages put together by frequent poster Ingo, at another travel site. Here they are:

Scuol
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a8885/

St. Moritz
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a88f9/

Ingo normally stays in apartments while there, so he may be able to help you find one that's right.

Have fun as you plan!

s

Hi Melnq8 (and swandav!),

Yep, these pages on Virtualtourist should be of some help. As for apartments, I stayed in some private ones (in Samedan e.g.) which are unfortunately not rented out anymore, but can highly recommend the Apartment complex "da la Posta" in Silvaplana. See www.interhome.com for descriptions, rates and availabilites, online booking possible. I doubt there will be crowds. I usually go skiing there in mid/late March, once even first week of April, and never thought it was crowded. Maybe on some popular ski pistes, but since you will focus on winter hiking that won't bother you. This year it's Easter around that time, though, and this might draw some more visitors over the holidays.

Apartments in Sils are very expensive IME, if you find one that fits in your budget then go for it. It's a lovely village, not crowded at all. Silvaplana attracts more sports people/skiers, while Sils attracts many hikers and culturally interested people. Both villages are very good choices, grocery, ATMs, cafes/restaurants available.

The website www.engadin.stmoritz.ch has suggestions for winter hikes. It all depends on the actual weather/snow conditions, though. Hikes around the lakes are always possible, from village to village (Maloja - Sils - Silvaplana - St. Moritz - Pontresina). More attractive are the (easy) hikes into the side valleys (Maloja - Lake Cavloc, Sils - Fex Valley, Pontresina - Val Roseg). They also groom hiking trails up on Muottas Muragl (very scenic views), in the ski areas (Corviglia above St. Moritz, Furtschellas above Sils) which lead to mountain restaurants and are rather short (half days) but fun to walk and watch the skiers IMO.

The Upper Engadine stretches from the Maloja pass in the southwest to Cinuos-chel in the Northeast. The part between Sils and Samedan is the most busy one, farther north it gets quieter - which is very nice for walks, too. You can easily do winter walking between the villages of La Punt - Chamues-ch and Zuoz/S-chanf. All these villages farther north preserved more of their original charm than the bigger and busier villages/towns where most of the skiers stay (around St. Moritz). Zuoz is highly recommended!

The Lower Engadine begins at Brail, with the centre at Scuol. But that's a different story. You may most likely want to do excursions to this part of the valley if staying two weeks. Let me know if you're interested in details on that area, too.

I suggest you also do excursions by train over the Bernina pass to Poschiavo, maybe even Tirano. It should be (very) early spring down in Tirano, with some flowers already in bloom. Also recommended is a visit by bus in the Bregaglia valley, beyond Maloja pass, in Soglio, with a hike down to Castasegna - Bondo - Promontogno (day trip). Should be free of snow then, early spring flowers already in bloom, too.

Inga's advice is impecable. Please see my posts from our trip in May/June from our trip to this area. The idea of a bus trip through the Malajo pass is a very good suggestion. It seems like a Hobbit-esque descent from one world to another. I'm a total rail nerd, so traveling up and down the valley on the Rhaetan Railway was my idea of paradise. You can do separate day rail journeys to Posciavo, Chur, Davos, and Scuol, each town being unique and worth visiting. (One could list other many other towns, also) The climate change you'll experience by taking the above mentioned trips into Italy will increase your options for hiking and gain some warmth during a time when it still can be cold in the Valley. Don't forget, however, Italy takes Euros while the Swiss only like their own SF.

Brilliant information, thank you all very much. I'd run across Ingo's trip reports on the area previously and will need to sit down with a map and get all of these areas clear in my head.

The two weeks might include a stay in Kandersteg...we were there a few Easters ago and fell in love with it. I haven't sorted out the train travel distances yet though, as still early days.

This helps a lot, thanks guys. I'm off to do some research.

Forgot to ask...I assume getting around by train is a viable option? We always travel by train in Switzerland. Does traveling solely by train affect one's choice of village or are they all well serviced?

Trains don't go from St. Moritz up the valley to Silvaplana, Sils and Maloja, but the bus service is even more frequent. Getting around by public transportation is an excellent choice in this region.

Concur. you may wish to visit the website for the Rhaetian Railway, (http://www.rhb.ch/index.php?id=1643&L=4) which is the rail company that operates in this region of Graubrunden.
(to the casual observer the transition from the national Swiss Rail System to Rhaetian railway trains is seamless; it is essentially the same system) The rail trip from Chur to Tirano is very scenic and is regarded as some of the most fascinating rail engineering of any train trip in the world. However, these trips are long if you are not a rail enthusiast. In my opinion, the shorter rail line that runs from ST. Moritz to Scuol is even more scenic, (read: breathtaking, indescribable) albeit with more typical rail line engineering.

The comment about the bus service is spot on. The integration of rail and bus service is amazing. We would literaly walk off a train on onto a bus within minutes and the system is very easy to use. Most drivers had a servicable understanding of English and were usually helpful. YOu can enter busstops/towns onto a querry on the Swiss Rail web site (sbb.ch) and see how the trip is managed with a rail/bus combo.

Okay, I'm back. After much debate, I think we're getting closer to a plan.

In an effort to avoid ski areas until after Easter (and the prices that come with them), we've re-worked our dates. The plan is now to spend four nights in Kandersteg over Easter and then head to the Engadine for eight nights, splitting the time between Upper and Lower, possibly Sils (or Silvaplana) and Scuol (or Zuoz).

Apartment rentals are probably out, as most have a week minimum.

Just wondering if basing ourselves in one area in the Engadine and making day trips from there is a good idea or not. This would save $$$, as we could stay in an apartment, but not sure if this makes logistic sense.

Also confused about Sils Maria and Sils im Engadin/Segl....is this one and the same?

Figured out Sils Maria and Sil im Engadin/Segl.

Most hotels and cable cars close after Easter season - 7 April. Only P. Corvatsch and Diavolezza will be open. It will be very quiet in the Engadine. I know you don't mind, just wanted to mention it. The problem might be that buses/trains run less frequently. Castle Tarasp will be closed, too. I'd probably not want to stay in Sils at that time - too quiet, too many shops/grocery will be closed or open at very reduced schedules only. I think Pontresina would be a good option in this case.

Anyway, I'd probably pick two bases. It's a long trip (for a day) from the Lower Engadine (Scuol e.g.) to Soglio or Poschiavo. And it takes more than 2 hours from Pontresina to the Benedictine convent Müstair e.g.

Helpful as always Ingo.

I'd figured on the closures, based on some hotels I'd checked being closed, but did find a promising apartment in Sils. Now, I wonder again. Hmmm.

Off season, the apartment owners are far mor likely to rent for less than a week.
We stayed at Chesa Nadig in Pontresina May 2010 for 5 days, and found it to be a good base for daytrips.
Just be aware that Pontresina is UPHILL from the train station should you choose it. (I also liked Samedan for a possible base).
Maybe you've already used this site?

http://www.pontresina.ch/en/winter/h...mmodation.html

I have found a few apartment options in Silvaplana that rent for less than a week, but I'm still leaning towards Sils, although I'm not sure why.

We have no issues with it being quiet, as that's our preference anyway, but one does have to eat! We stayed in Lauterbrunnen following Easter and loved the peace and quiet, but found ourselves scrambling for dinner.

Good to know about the hill, mokka4, thanks.

Ingo, forgot to ask - do you suggest Pontresina because more will be open? Do you think Scoul still makes a good base after Easter?

Yes, more hotels/restaurants/shops will be open in Pontresina. It's a) larger than Sils, b) it's right on the Bernina pass route, which has tourists all year through, and I know for sure there is a COOP grocery which will be open at more convenient times. Sils has a smaller grocery (VOLG) which is more likely to be either closed at all or be open only at odd times.

Scuol has tourists all year round due to the fantastic spa. Spring also comes pretty early in the Lower Engadin, at least compared to the Upper Engadine, so you'll probably spot the first spring flowers there on sunny, south-facing places.

Fantastic, thanks again Ingo.

Sorry to be a pest, but we're wondering if St Mortiz might even be a good option, considering it's post ski season.

Scoul is decided upon, we're just waffling on the Upper Engadine location.

Most parts of St. Moritz are overbuilt with quite ugly apartment blocks, 1960s/70s and later style. Some of the older, grand architecture is preserved in the centre of St. Moritz-Dorf, though - Cafe Hanselmann, Palace hotel etc.

I never stayed up in St. Moritz-Dorf, only down in St. Moritz-Bad (the former spa area). Ugly apartment blocks there, too, but more green inbetween.

While St. Moritz definitely lacks charm, it is an excellent hub for transportation and has the best shopping (COOP grocery!) options.

Yes, it could be an option.

Did you check Samedan? Administrative centre of the Upper Engadine, also a large COOP grocery, charming old centre. And a hub for trains and buses.

I've never struggled so much planning a trip...the more I research, the more confused I get.

This is what we're looking at, but nothing booked yet.

Kandersteg - four nights - I've heard back from the tourist office and have no worries about filling three full days with assorted hikes, weather providing.

Upper Engadine - Pontresina or Samedan - five nights. I'm having trouble finding open accommodation after Easter in Pontresina, so it's looking more and more like Samedan.

Silvaplana also an option, but to be honest, all these villages are confusing the heck out of me.

Lower Engadine - Scoul - five nights - waiting to hear back from an apartment owner, have run into several hotel closures after April 7 as Ingo warned above

Zurich - one night before flight out (not sure we can make it to the airport by 11 am without undue stress).

So, eight full days and two partial days in the Engadine. We're the type who can always find something to do, some trail to walk, some village to explore, etc, but it appears the Swiss Nat'l Park will be closed too, so wondering if 10 nights is overkill in the off season.

We hope to do the Bernina Express and the hike from Soglio (Lower Engadine?), so two days already filled there.

This is giving me a head cramp.

The Swiss National Park is never closed, but in winter you can hardly do any hiking there - because of trail conditions. They actually groom a cross-country skiing trail at Buffalora near Ofen pass/Pass dal Fuorn. The National Park Info Centre with exhibits (admission fee for exhibits/museum 7 CHF, Tourist Info free of course) in Zernez is open Mon-Fri 9-12 and 14-17 h.

More activities that will be doable after Easter:
Lower Engadine:
- Beer (organic) microbrewery in Tschlin, guided tours with tasting on Wednesdays, 4.15 pm (one hour) CHF 10
- Walk the "mineral springs trail" around Scuol. Flyer available at the tourist office. The trail leads along many of the 20 mineral springs, each has a different taste (try!).
- Stroll through Guarda, Ardez, Sent - all of them worth two hours. Have a closer look at the sgraffiti, the churches in Ardez and Sent.
- A very nice walk is from Vna (which is located high above the valley floor, bus connections) to Hof Zuort (www.zuort.ch). Dutch conductor Willem Mengelberg lived there for many years. If you ask nicely they may show you the chapel/chalet. The restaurant there is open all year round. Depending on trail conditions you can probably continue via Hotel Val Sinestra to Sent. Vna - Zuort 1.20 h, Zuort - Sent 2 hours.
- Excursion to Samnaun. The bus ride alone is worth the trip: A narrow, winding road with tunnels leading up a side valley. Samnaun is duty free area (shopping). The skiing area is open until 1 May, the cable car takes you up to groomed hiking trails. The local museum (in Samnaun-Plan) has tours (call ahead) on Thursdays 5 pm. Last bus to Scuol leaves 7.14 pm.
- Definitely a day trip to Müstair to see the Benedictine convent. UNESCO world heritage site with museum, 1200 years old frescoes in the church ...

Upper Engadine:
- Although you're not skiing, these cable car rides up are worth the money: Piz Corvatsch and Diavolezza. These are open until early May. Diavolezza has a groomed hiking trail on top (to Sass Queder) which takes about an hour.
- The self-service restaurant Roseggletscher is open until 14 April. This means the horse-drawn carriages will run in that valley, too. Or hike, maybe back, it's 7.5 km one way from Pontresina train station.
- Hotel Morteratsch is also open until 14 April, the restaurant probably longer. From there you can hike to the glacier and back, or back to Pontresina.
- Church Sta. Maria in Pontresina: Mon/Wed/Fri 2.30 - 4 pm until 12 April. Free guided tour Wed 3.30 pm. Frescoes!
- Engadin museum, St. Moritz, open Mon-Fri 10-12 and 14-17 h
- Segantini museum St. Moritz, open Tue-Sun, 10-12 and 14-18 h
- Museum Alpin, Pontresina, open Mon-Sat 16-18 h, until 13 April
- Very enjoyable are the hiking trails from village to village with some sightseeing. Zuoz is particularly charming.


Both Bernina Express and the hike from Soglio are best done from the Upper Engadine. Travel time from the Lower Engadine would be too long IMO - plus more than one hour each way.

Brilliant Ingo, I feel much better now! I'd looked at the Swiss Nat'l Park website where I saw mostly 'Gescholossen', but that was probably for the walking tracks, which is completely understandable in January.

I so appreciate your patient help, I really do. Cheers.

It's hard to believe a real meat/potatoes/beer kind of guy like me will agree with this point, but the water around Scuol is truely special.

Ingo -

I've found this on the apartment site I plan to rent from, but can't find a translation, would you mind?

Wäschegarnitur (Bett-, Küchen-, Badewäsche)

optional, Costs amounting to CHF 25.00 once-only per person

CHF 50.00

It means "bed clothes" - linen etc. One set is 25 CHF, so for the two of you 50 CHF. Once only, not per day.

That is because many Europeans prefer to bring their own.

I.

Sorry, it also includes towels for bathroom/kitchen.

Thank you!

Ingo -

I guess there's a separate charge for sheets (linen) and duvets (bed clothes)? Or is the 50 CHF charge for cleaning of bed clothes and towels (Wäschegarnitur?)

The extras on the apartment site read as follows, which I find a bit confusing, as the charges seem redundant.

--------

Bed linen 30,00 CHF (optional)
Towels 20,00 CHF (optional)
Wäschegarnitur (Bett-, Küchen-, Badewäsche) 50,00 CHF (optional)

----------

I'm just trying to understand what I'm getting into before I commit.

Intersting that Europeans travel with their own linens and covers, I didn't realize that. I used to see that quite alot in the Middle East though.

This is for a place in Pontresina, which they've told me is accessible by leaving the train in Samedan and taking the bus to Pontresina. Just when I think I understand where the trains go, I realize I don't.

That's indeed a bit confusing. Maybe it's also a problem with translation on the website. It looks like you can separately order bed linen (includes all bed clothes, I guess) for CHF 30 and towels for CHF 20 (don't know if that includes towels for kitchen).

However, in your case I'd definitely opt for
"Wäschegarnitur (Bett-, Küchen-, Badewäsche) 50,00 CHF (optional)" because that includes everything in question. But, is that for one or two persons?

Travelling with own bed linens and covers is only common if you stay in rental apartments. Not in hotels, of course :-)

Be careful about the location! Pontresina stretches over 2 or 3 km - some rental apartments are actually pretty close to the Muottas Muragl funicular, which is pretty far from the centre with shops, grocery, restaurants (which is roughly between Grand Hotel Kronenhof and Hotel Walther/post office). The train station is located below the centre, a 5-10 minutes walk, but really far from the other end of town. The bus, however, runs along that main streets and ends (or starts) at the train station. So, basically it doesn't matter where you leave the train to change to the bus, but the owner maybe assumed you arrive from somewhere else in Switzerland (Zürich airport?) and Samedan would be the first train station then.

Good to know Ingo, cheers.

Ingo -

I'm revisiting your very helpful posts as our March/April trip was postponed, and we're now trying to sort out things for an early December visit. The plan is to visit Switzerland pre-ski season, which will lower our accommodation costs considerably, but still give us a taste of winter. I've found several apartment rentals available for our dates. As a bonus, we'll also have plenty of time for the Christmas Markets in Germany.

Our first run at an itinerary looks like this:

Dec 6-10 - Pontresina
Dec 11-15 - Scoul
Dec 16-19 - Kandersteg (or possibly Lauterbrunnen)
Dec 20-22 Rothenburg ob der Tauber
Dec 23-26 - Munich
Dec 27 - Zurich

We've not booked anything yet, but we're looking into flights from Perth to Zurich and we plan to take the train between locations. I'd wanted to try to fit in Austria too, perhaps a few days in Kitzbuhel, but most accommodation there seems to require a week minimum, regardless of time of year.

I'm currently awaiting e-mail from tourist centers to determine what if anything will be open and I've got a lot to sort out yet, but I'll no doubt be back to pick your brains a bit more.

There will already quite something open in early December. Skiing season in the Upper Engadine starts relatively early (Corvatsch 16 Nov - but unfortunately nothing for hiking there), helpful are the cable cars above St. Moritz - The Suvretta chair lift starts 7 Dec, I bet they right away groom the walking trails from there via Signal and to Chantarella (funicular stop between St. Moritz and Corviglia) and down to St. Moritz. Hotel Roseggletscher will probably be open, Hotel Fex not (started 21 Dec last year). However, a walk into Fex Valley is always worth the time. Hiking trails along the lakes are also groomed, I am sure. A Bernina pass train ride is a *must* anyway ... check out the cute town Poschiavo. Diavolezza cable car is not in operation.

The skiing in Scuol starts 14 Dec. Taking the gondola up and hiking via Prui to Ftan is very nice. Another hike that's for sure doable is Guarda - Ardez, both villages are picturesque and worth an hour. Castle Tarasp will be closed, sorry. But it's still worth a hike from scuol to the castle or vice versa (bus for the other direction). Hof Zuort is open all year round - a *must*! Very nice walk from Vna (bus from Scuol), about 1.30 h up, 1 hour down. www.zuort.ch If conditions are good, then the trail via Hotel Val Sinestra to Sent could be open.

In Tschlin is a microbrewery, they make organic beer. Tour/tastings once per week, maybe they are open mid Dec. http://www.bieraria.ch

Daylight hours will be short. Might get dark around 4 pm. And the weather can be lousy, but you certainly know that :-)

Thank you again Ingo, helpful as always.

I've just heard back from the Scoul tourist office which indicates the castle should be open on Fridays. As it happens we'll be there on a Friday so I guess we'll find out when we get there. Regardless, the walk up to it sounds like a good option.

So going to the Upper Engadine first seems a good idea as transport opens earlier.

Things are slowly beginning to come together.

Ingo -

I read your recommendation for walks in the Fex Valley on another thread. It appears access is via the cable car Furtschellas, which won't be open until 21/12. Are there any other winter walking options in the Fex Valley that you're aware of or can point me to? Cheers.

Glad to hear the castle will be open. Definitely do the tour.

In winter you cannot walk from the cable car Furtschellas to the Fex Valley. These summer trails are buried under snow. Instead you walk from the small main square in Sils-Maria either through the small canyon or follow the street (passing Hotel Waldhaus). Both trails meet at Hotel Sonne. From there on it's just the street (not open to public traffic) to Hotel Fex. Same way back, but at Hotel Sonne choose the other option to walk down to Sils. My recommendation is to walk up the canyon and the street back.

Cheers Ingo.

Hi Ingo- don't mean to hijack this thread but we had such a fantastic time in Sils Maria and Fex Valley in 2006- thanks for your help back then. Now my daughter is living in Vienna- anything comparable to the Engadine in Austria or the fabulous Centovalli/village of Rasa above Lake Maggiore? Looking for off the beaten path Austrian beauty -possibly Gargellen in the Vorarlberg near Switzerland. How's the Bregenzerwald Kasestrasse (Cheese Rd)? Is Lake Constance scenic?
We will have a car and several wks to tour around- so far have only come up with a winery in S Styria near the Slovenian border. Leaving in less than 5 wks. Any Austrian tips most appreciated!
-calville

Hi calville - I remember. Sorry, but I am afraid nothing in Austria compares to Sils or the Centovalli.

Gargellen is in the dead end of a small valley, not much to do there. If you would like to go to this area, better stay in one of the nearby villages, like Gaschurn e.g. Better location for excursions.

Bregenzer Wald is indeed somewhat off the beaten path, but for me the mountains are too low, not dramatic enough. No glaciers there.

Lake Constance is not really scenic, if you mean gorgeous mountains in the background. The high Alps are quite a distance from the lake. Otherwise the lakeshores are beautiful, the German side quite touristy, the Swiss side less so.

Closer to Vienna and the Slovenian border in Austria are Carinthia and East Tyrol. I'd rather concentrate on this region. There are several lakes in Carinthia which are pretty popular: Wörthersee, Millstätter See, Weissensee etc. The mountains north from there are quite tall, dramatic, with glaciers. See Mt. Grossglockner - base Heiligenblut in Carinthia or Kals in East Tyrol - with the famous Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse pass road or Grossvenediger - base Matrei in East Tyrol. Next to Matrei is Villgraten valley, with unspoilt, authentic villages - a jewel. Very beautiful is also Defereggental (main place: St. Jakob), from where you can drive via Staller Sattel pass road to Italy. A really nice excursion with fantastic scenery.

Thanks so much Ingo! I will begin researching your suggestions because I trust your opinion :)

My daughter stumbled on Maria Alm recently and thought it was beautiful and less touristy- she might have taste like mine- dislikes all the popular spots like Salzburg, Zell am See and Hallstatt.

We could combine Carinthia with S Tyrol/Italy- any particular spot in Italy you recommend? We have two wks in the mtns and almost one wk in Vienna. Now on a new investigative path- thank you!!