Up-to-date ATM (vs. debit) card info, please
 

I have an "ATM-only" card that ties into a credit union (CU) savings account only. The networks it lists on the back are NWCU Alliance, Co-op, and Cirrus. From reading here, I was under the impression that what I need to use an European ATM is a (debit?) card that would pull money from my checking account, not my savings account...and possibly should have a Visa or Mastercard tie-in.

I asked at the CU information desk and the gentleman there said that I should have no trouble using the ATM-only card I already have overseas...but then said that his had worked in Canada and Mexico and he hadn't tried it elsewhere.

I searched the forum and found some old threads about ATM vs. debit card acceptance...I didn't see anything recent, or I maybe missed it. Does anyone have any more recent info on whether an ATM-only card (with those networks) that takes money from my savings account will work in an ATM machine in Spain, France, or Italy? There's no charge for me to open a CU checking account and get a full debit card -- I just don't need another checking account otherwise, so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks!

Yes, an ATM card with Cirrus works for us in all those
countries plus more. Just tie it into your chequing account
and let yur CU know where you'll be using it.

You may disregard this thread -- though I admit I'm still curious about the answer. I called my credit union and talked with someone I hope is more knowledgeable. She said that there's no guaranty that an ATM-only card would be accepted and advised me to bite the bullet, open a checking account, and get the debit card. (You'd think the guy at their information desk would have known that, too. Oh, well.) Thanks anyway.

immimi, thanks for the info! The trouble was that I didn't have a checking account to tie this card to. So I just opened one.

I have found that stateside bank/CU employees almost NEVER know anything about foreign currency/ATMs/cards/fees/anything.

If you call again and talk to someone else-- you'll likely get yet another answer.

If your card is linked to the Cirrus system, it will work in a machine linked to the Cirrus system.

European ATMs will take money from the primary account --since the savings is your primary (in your case,your ONLY acct) it will work.

A BofA rep told me the same thing: an ATM card linked to a savings account SHOULD work in France -- it did not. Luckily, I thought he was clueless, so I had two other debit cards linked to checking accounts.

The reason for the failure had nothing to do with primary of not. It was primary, it was the only account. It had to do with the type of transaction the ATM machine did to my account. It did a demand draft access. A savings account could not do this type of transaction.

I travel to Europe with no fewer than two debit cards linked to checking accounts in two different banks.

I have had my ATM only card refused in machines which accepted my debit cards in Italy (and in Portugal, although that country isn't mentioned in this post).

<<A BofA rep told me the same thing: an ATM card linked to a savings account SHOULD work in France -- it did not.>>

It will work if the savings account is your PRIMARY account. If your primary account is a checking account and your savings account is linked to that, it will not work. At foreign ATMs, you have no choice of accounts. The transaction defaults to your PRIMARY account.

What is true is that with European ATM's you don't get a choice which account to withdraw from...whether it's a vanilla ATM card or a debit card. If you have an ATM card which is tied in to a savings account with a cirrus logo, as long as the ATM has a cirrus logo, it will or I should say it should work...as noted above it's the PRIMARY account where the money will come out from.

I have had ATM-only cards in the past and now have bank and credit union debit cards. My CU ATM card used to be savings only. The current CU debit card is checking & savings. My bank ATM/debit cards were/are checking only. All have worked in Europe for at least the last 15 years.

Have they worked every single time-- nope. There are the odd glitches, but every card has worked on every trip.

I definately wouldn't depend on one ATM card - after seeing
a friend's card vanish into the slot I have current primary
chequing accounts with two different institutions. Dh has
yet another card. All tie in with Cirrus and Plus. Such
an easy sensible way to access money - wouldn't do it any
other way.

Ok, what's a ATM only card? My ATM card has a "visa" logo on it and can be used any where the visa symbol is displayed, along with a ATM machine. it is tied into my savings account.

An "ATM only" card is just what it sounds like. It can only be used in an ATM to withdraw cash. It cannot be used to make purchases. A debit card can be used as an ATM card and can also be used to make purchases.

I have used my ATM only card in both France and Italy without any problem - and one of those cards was tied to a savings account only. But I always take two cards with me just in case because you never know.

A card with a VISA logo is most likely a debit card, which can be used for withdrawals at an ATM and also for purchases (just like a credit card, but the funds are immediately deducted from your account).

An ATM only card can be used only for ATM withdrawals.

The difference? An ATM card requires a PIN for withdrawals. A debit card requires a PIN for withdrawals, but not for purchases. If your debit card is lost/stolen, your balance can be quickly wiped out - without your PIN. All can be sorted out eventually, but probably not during your travels.

<<I have found that stateside bank/CU employees almost NEVER know anything about foreign currency/ATMs/cards/fees/anything.>>

janis is so right, as I know from my 11 years of banking. Being a traveller I was more knowledgeable than most tellers, as the others only knew what bank officials told them and they had no first-hand experience.

Regarding regular ATM cards vs debit cards--the regular ATM card is NOT as good as a debit card. I learned the hard way in Belgium when not a single ATM machine would take my regular ATM card. For the first time in years I had to exchange US$ for €'s and of course I got tattooed on the exchange rate. Upon my return from that trip I was told you MUST have a debit card in Belgium as well as a few other countries. Furthermore the Visa Debit card will work in just about any ATM machine while the regular ATM card will work in just certain machines.

Get a Visa Debit card.

Wouldn't it be better to bring cash.. I'm bring cash.. and now I nto sure if I want to bring more cash.. becuz this whoel ATM issue is confusing.. and the rates aren't that good esp with the transactions fee BOA charges

cali88,

Sure you could bring cash but you will pay thru the nose on the exchange. Furthermore, do you want to carry all of your cash around throughout the trip? BOA does have partner banks in Europe where there are no fees, but if you are not going to one of those countries then check around for a credit union. I have a credit union acct I use only for travel. Using that acct the markup on ATM withdrawals is only 1% and the flat fee is $1. That's a heck of a lot cheaper than exchanging cash.

"<i>Wouldn't it be better to bring cash.. I'm bring cash.. and now I nto sure if I want to bring more cash.. becuz this whoel ATM issue is confusing.. and the rates aren't that good esp with the transactions fee BOA charges</i>"

cali88: No -- it <u>definitely</u> would not be better to just bring cash. The rates you get w/ an ATM withdrawal are much better than you get exchanging cash.

Plus-- you have BofA which does not charge ANY fee at all if you use their partner banks. In Paris that would be BNP Paribas which is all over the city.

If you bring cash to exchange, factoring in exchange rates/fees, you will lose between 10% and 12% or more on your money.

I didn't realize cali88 is going to Paris. I was there a few years ago and BNP Paribas ATMs are everywhere. You will get a very good exchange by using BNP Paribas and you will pay NO FEES. Bringing cash would be a very poor choice indeed.

cali88, be sure to notify BOA in advance you will be using your card in France so they won't flag it for irregular activity. ATM use is the quickest, easiest and cheapest way to exchange--period, end of story.

If you have any other questions about ATM use we will be happy to answer.

This is complicated. I now have ATMs, CCs, cash and trav. checks spinning in my head :)

Well you can free up some space by purging traveler's checks from your memory bank.

Ha! I forgot money orders :))

sorry.. i meant i would exchange my cash here in the USA for euros and bring over euros..

P_M,

I think you are not correct about paying no fees by using a BOA card at a PNB Paribas ATM. BOA waives the $5 transaction fee they charge for using their ATM at a non-partner bank, but still charge a 3% exchange fee, I think.

I use my BOA card in emergencies, but mostly rely on my ATM card from my local bank , which charges no exchange fees.

<<sorry.. i meant i would exchange my cash here in the USA for euros and bring over euros..>>

You'll pay a 7-10% or more markup on the exchange rates.

<B>nukesafe:</B> Most banks do tack on about 1% to the interbank rate, but not all. Are you possibly mixing credit cards and debit cards. I've not heard that BofA (greedy lot that they are) tacks on 3% for debit card transactions. Credit cards - yes -- but one shouldn't use a cc in an ATM anyway.

<B>cali88:</B> It makes no difference if you exchange your $ for € in the States or in Paris -- it will cost you more. In fact, it probably would even be a few points worse to do it Stateside.

Trust us, using you BofA debit/Atm card is the very best/cheapest way to get cash in Paris.

djkbooks,

The extra charge for obtaining cash in the US may be fine for some. It is for me, because it is so small due to my only needing about 800 euros for my stays of perhaps 6 weeks. I think I computed it and posted it last trip. If you are drving and need lots of gas etc. than it is a different story. For my trips to Paris, it works out fine. I use my Cap One for most everything, as it is without transaction fees.I do have ATM cards with me along with other cards. I did use the ATM card once in Sarlat as I was passing by, just to see if it worked..it did! Only time that I ever used it.

Joan

"A BofA rep told me the same thing: an ATM card linked to a savings account SHOULD work in France -- it did not. Luckily, I thought he was clueless,"

Doesn't "clueless" pretty much define most of BofA. My Debit card tied to a checking accound didn't work in Spain, because they "forgot" to put the alert on it telling the system I was in Spain (I spent an hour waiting on hold to tell them, but...)

janisj...many of the same near criminal banks that tack on extra fees for foreign transactions on credit cards do the same for ATM cash withdrawals on their ATM or debit cards...Bank of America, Chase, Citibank all do so and indeed it is 3% above interbank rates. Now Cirrus and Plus are fully owned subsidiaries of Mastercard and visa respectively and so all withdrawals are subject to the 1% above interbank rate; most banks pass that a long but you still do far better than exchanging cash which usually involves a rate 10% above the interbank rate plus assorted other fees and that's not really chump change as far as I am concerned; you might differ. On an $800 withdrawal, that would be $72 before fees....unless you need immediate cash to pay say for an apartment knowing there are ATM withdrawal restrictions, I just don't get the convenience thing. Nothing is more convenient for me than, while waiting for my baggage after a flight, going over and pulling a few euro or whatever currency I need from an ATM; depending on the country I usually have very little need for cash as almost everythingt in many countries (granted not all) can be done with a credit card...public transportation in from the airport on many local transit systems can now easily be facilitated with a credit card. Conbenience, that is true convenience, is to credit card everything wherever possible no matter how small and save the use of cash for those very few places, at least in the countries I visit, that don't take them. But in many places, those are becoming the exception rather than the rule.

Hi Bee,

>She said that there's no guaranty that an ATM-only card would be accepted and advised me to bite the bullet, open a checking account, and get the debit card.<

I have been using ATM only cards from 2 different banks in Europe for many years.

One is connectd to interlink and Plus. The other to Maestro and Cirrus.

((I))

<<I've not heard that BofA (greedy lot that they are) tacks on 3% for debit card transactions.>>

You might want to call and check on that. More and more banks have added the currency conversion fee to ATM withdrawals and debit card purchases.

My bank added this only recently.

"convenience, is to credit card everything wherever possible no matter how small and save the use of cash for those very few places, at least in the countries I visit, that don't take them" - what about countries that add 3% for using a foreign credit card?

I think some of you are over-thinking this whole thing!

For the past 20 years we've travelled all over Europe, USA,
Canada, Mexico, etc. using a regular, basic, ATM card - no
debit attached. We also use a VISA charge card when it's
to our advantage. We take around 50 euro seed money from
home and hit an ATM machine at our destination. We make
sure the machine is adjacent/inside a banking institution
and we check to see the Cirrus/Plus logo is displayed.

We have NEVER had difficulty obtaining money and we have
found we really don't lose much in added-on fees. And
there are ATM's everywhere - just like North America.

Even when Amex traveller's cheques were the only game in town
they were a total p.i.a. - I can't imagine being bothered
with them now when it's so simple to obtain cash by ATM.

My motto is K.I.S.S.!

Dayenu, I have not heard of countries adding 3% for the use of a foreign credit card. Do you know of particular countries that do this?

What I have heard of is dynamic currency conversion where merchants in other countries add a percentage to the exchange rate if they charge you in your home currency, and you do have to watch out for that but you can have them void the transaction if they do it and ask them to redo it in the local currency.

The way the 3% gets added to most credit card transactions abroad is when your own bank adds that on top of the exchange rate. But there are some credit cards, notably Capital One, that do not do that.

OK - sorry for the assumptions. Neither my bank nor CU tack on 3%. But even IF BofA does, there are no ATM fees at partner banks, and 3% is still much better than cali88 will get buying € at home.

Nikki...In the USA we have two wonderful protections written into the merchant agreements regarding credit cards. Merchants cannot establish a minimum required for use of a card and they mayh not surcharge credit card purchases (although apparently cash discounts are allowed; somehow I don't see the difference). These protections do not exist, apparently, outside the USA. I have read, for examkple, that it is a practice in Denmark to add 3% surcharges for use of a foreign credit card (although the effect can be limited by using a credit card such as Capital One to avoid the foreign currency transaction fee). However, in almost all cases, you do better by using a credit card, no dccd, than you do by exchanging cash. Of course if you have a checking account that allows free ATM withdrawals and doesn't apply foreign transaction fees, in those cases where credit card surcharges are a way of life, you could do better by using cash withdrawn from ATM's that way. But in most cases, this is not a problem so I still maintain the most convenient and best method of handing money while travelling is using credit cards everywhere they are taken especially ones like Cap One and Charles Schwab Bank which even eat the 1% visa fee and give you the best exchange rates!

I used a Schwab credit card recently and a Scwab ATM card... they were both great and I've checked statements - def. no 3% (or 1%) fees tacked on. Plus I get 2% cash back on cc transactions.

xyz, is that added charge in Denmark for foreign credit cards or for all credit cards? I remember having to pay extra to use credit cards in Denmark when we were there several years ago, but I thought it was for all credit cards, not just foreign ones.

I do use a Schwab debit card at ATMs abroad, and they do charge nothing for currency exchange as well as eat the 1% VISA fee.

<<The extra charge for obtaining cash in the US may be fine for some. It is for me, because it is so small due to my only needing about 800 euros for my stays of perhaps 6 weeks. >>

gracejoan, few can afford the "you must be kidding" rates of ParisPerfect these days, or have the opportunity to visit Paris for 6 weeks. Those who can, perhaps, think nothing of paying a 10% markup for €800 euros, an €80 surcharge, which for many would be a lot of shopping or a very special meal.

Personally, I see no point in making the (mostly despicable) banks richer, and contributing to their parties and bonuses, for not providing a service I can acquire without their ridiculous fees otherwise.

djkbooks,

I think last fall the extra that I paid for my 800 euros was about $20....not the 80 euros surcharge that you are talking about! The extra $20 'fee' that I paid I considered as convenience.

Re apartment rates...there are all kinds of apartments and prices. There are many, many apartments in the same price range as the Paris Perfect apartments. I see them all the time! Lots of nice apartments, in all areas. Many are now trying to stay longer..avoid the miserable flight coming up so soon!!

Joan