UK itinerary help
 

Thanks for your assistance on my flight advice post. We have flights purchased so now have firm dates to work with. As usual, there isn't enough time to do/see everything I would like (the jobs and bank accounts make sure of that!). So, more of your help and advice is needed to help me organize our trip so it makes the best use of our time.

I will be traveling with my best friend. We are in our late 50's early 60's. I've been to London and Scotland before, she has not. We travel well together and she is NOT a planner and is happy for me to do all the planning and tag along happily wherever I decide. Seriously, she will be happy whatever we do and not complain she's "missing out" on something. We make a good pair since I have planning in my genes and it exhausts her.

Dates:
Sep 7 depart SFO 7:50pm - arrive Sep 8 LHR 2:00pm

Sep 24 depart LHR 2:15pm- arrive SFO 5:20pm

Further research into open jaw flights indicated we will save money by purchasing a separate flight either from LHR to EDI on arrival or EDI to LHR on departure day. Slightly cheaper to go EDI to LHR on Sep 24. I originally thought of going directly to EDI on arrival, but we will get in late (8pm ish) so now we will do London first.

This is a very tentative idea of cities/sites we want to see (or should I be honest and say I want to see since my friend could really care less)

• London- 5 nights- I could happily spend the whole time seeing the museums I cut short because of teenagers and do no day trips like we did last time. Maybe Windsor Castle since I haven't seen it, but nothing too far afield. So I think 4 days is good for me and a taste of the city for my friend.
• York- missed it last time. My dad was stationed close by during WW2 at Sutton-on-the-Forest. The airfield is gone, but it would be neat to somehow see the area and the city of York. How much time is the question
• Edinburgh- 3 nights- I want 2 days for the castle and just general exploring the bits I missed last time.
• The Trossachs for Inchmahome Priory and possibly Doune. My friend is a Monty Python fan and I did not see it last time, but we could pass on that. 1 night?
• Skye- because it's SKYE. 3 nights/2days would be ideal
• If we have time I would love to see some of Argyll. Our last trip took us west then north and down the east coast so we missed the inner Hebrides. Lots to see there I know. Iona and Kilmartin appeal to me. Welcome to suggestions of what we might be able to fit in in our limited time in Scotland.

I have a feeling we will have to give up either York or Argyll to make this work. I was contemplating taking the train from London to York and then a bus to Sutton-on-the-Forest (or rent a car for the day). Then the train up to Waverly or maybe Glasgow would be better. Not sure how to make this bit work. It would be easiest to leave Edinburgh for last since we will be flying out of there to LHR on a morning flight.

Thoughts? Suggestions for routes? Call me crazy? It's okay, you wouldn't be the first! My friend Lynn and I already have reputations of being wild and crazy for a couple of old ladies :). If you are a single man living anywhere near where we are going- watch out. She's a serious flirt and a little "handsy" after a few pints, lol.

Nancy

Driving or taking trains or both?

I'd suggest taking trains to York and Edinburgh unless of course wanting to meander thru rural areas, etc. But if just between those cities as quick as possible hop the train.
Book tickets early for discounted fares much cheaper than full-fare walk-up tickets- York in 2 hours - Edinburgh about 4.5 from London. National Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetables has all the fares and can book on there - Edinburgh rent a car or take escorted tours. For lots on trains and booking (first class is discounted too and immensely nicer on that line than standard class - free food and drink much of way. Rather scenic in parts above Newcastle to edinburgh -sit on right side for best views (east side). www.seat61.com is great on booking your own tickets; general info BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

there are several really Scotland experts on Fodors who will have great ideas for other places.

If you decide to include York I would recommend a visit to the very good Air Museum just outside the city at Elvington. This would give you a good taste of what your dad did during his time at Sutton in the Forest (which I know well). The Air Museum is very atmospheric and moving - you can go into some of the old airfield buildings and it is like stepping back in time.
http://yorkshireairmuseum.org/
York itself is a beautiful city and a lot could be seen in a day. So, with just 2 days in York you could explore the city on one day (no need for a car to do this) and hire a car for Sutton in the Forest/Air Museum the other day.
Of course with longer time you could go to the Dales or the Moors or see any of the numerous attractions in the North Yorkshire area.

Thank you for the info on the museum! I had no idea it existed and since there is literally nothing left at Eastmoor to see, this sounds like an ideal outing!

We will be taking the train and driving. We took the train from London to Edinburgh last time and sat on the right side as recommended (perhaps by you!). Gorgeous views. Might look into first class, especially if we don't stop in York. You had me at free drinks ;)

My FIL was born in Sutton.

Train to York is the right solution, from Kings Cross (a station worth visiting in its own right and if you have time drop by St Pancras next door, a total complex including access to Eurostar which is fascinating). York itself is a walled city (very unusual in the UK) and worth walking around, the cathedral is the obvious visit, along with the free railway museum and a few other medievel buildings. Visits outside York are also lovely, Morgana's suggestion is perfect, but there is so much more to see. Search websites under North Yorkshire and Yorkshire to get any more ideas before you head north.

re the trains, if one of you is 60 or over, you are entitled to a Senior Rail card which gives ⅓ discounts on tickets. You can buy the discounted tickets before you by the railcard but you must have it when you use them to board the train. book early enough and you can really get some bargains - in April I am travelling from Coventry to London and back on consecutive days, and with the senior discount, the ticket is costing £22 return in First class.

York also has the free National Rail Museum adjacent to the train station -something of interest for all ages.

re times: With your 16 nights

For york preferably 3 nights (Sep 13,14,15). That would give you 1+ day for York and 1 day for the Sutton area, the air museum and Sutton Park . . . and maybe Castle Howard.

2 nights in/near Callander (Sep 16,17) - leaving you 1.75 days for Doune, Inchmahome, Loch Katrine, the general National Park scenery, maybe a bit of Loch Lomond.

>>Skye- because it's SKYE. 3 nights/2days would be ideal<<

Two days isn't 'ideal' because it is a very large isle and the travel is quite slow. If all you end up with is time for 3 nights (Sep 18, 19, 20) you can have a very nice visit, but you won't see all that much. The Trotternish, Dunvegan, and some terrific scenery.

If you stay in London 5 nights - that is 13 nights

So -- you can fit in Mull/Iona. You can drive from Mallaig to Lochaline and ferry across to Mull, stay 2 nights (Sep 20, 21) in say Fionnphort seeing Mull and Iona, then ferry to Oban and explore Kilmartin, Inveraray and on to GLA. You can stay the night of the 23rd either at GLA and take an early AM flight to LHR - or - an evening flight to LHR and stay the night there.

Annhig, is the senior rail card available to non-UK citizens?

Jeeze -- my dates are screwed up -- I left out Edinburgh :(

So 16 nights: Sep 8-12 London, Sep 13-14 York, Sep 15-17 Edinburgh, Sep 18-19 Trossachs, Sep 21-22 Skye.

SOOOOO . . . if you cut London to 4 nights and Edinburgh to 2 nights then you could fit in Mull/Iona

So 16 nights: Sep 8-11 London, Sep 12-13 York, Sep 14-15 Edinburgh, Sep 16-17 Trossachs, Sep 18-20 Skye, Sep 21-22 Mull/Iona, Sep 23 either at GLA or LHR, fly home Sep 24 (Sorry)

>>Annhig, is the senior rail card available to non-UK citizens?<<

It's available to anyone. You can't but the pass in the States -- But you can download the form and fill it out at home. and book your tix as if you had the pass in hand. Then when you get to London you can turn in the form and but the pass at any train station - as long as you have it before you collect/use your tickets. But - also check out the 'Two Traveling Together' pass. And do dummy bookings using both passes. All in, (cost of the tickets plus the passes) one may be a better deal than the other. You'd handle the TTT pass the same way -- download the forms at home etc. . .

[QUOTE][re the trains, if one of you is 60 or over, you are entitled to a Senior Rail card which gives ⅓ discounts on tickets. You can buy the discounted tickets before you by the railcard but you must have it when you use them to board the train. book early enough and you can really get some bargains - in April I am travelling from Coventry to London and back on consecutive days, and with the senior discount, the ticket is costing £22 return in First class./QUOTE]
Yes, one of us IS over 60! Finally getting to cash in on old age, yay! AND she gets concession prices on admission at some places. Great suggestions annhig (and quite the deal you are getting) and janisj. I'll try out both discount programs and let you know which one comes back with the best deal!

[QUOTE=janisj;16656535]Jeeze -- my dates are screwed up -- I left out Edinburgh :(

So 16 nights: Sep 8-12 London, Sep 13-14 York, Sep 15-17 Edinburgh, Sep 18-19 Trossachs, Sep 21-22 Skye.

SOOOOO . . . if you cut London to 4 nights and Edinburgh to 2 nights then you could fit in Mull/Iona

So 16 nights: Sep 8-11 London, Sep 12-13 York, Sep 14-15 Edinburgh, Sep 16-17 Trossachs, Sep 18-20 Skye, Sep 21-22 Mull/Iona, Sep 23 either at GLA or LHR, fly home Sep 24 (Sorry)[QUOTE]

Yeah, I feel like I have to let something go. We already have reservations for 5 nights in London and I really don't want to give Edinburgh short shrift. Ugh, now I have to decide between York or Mull/Iona.

OR -- you could drop Skye. I know, I know . . . everybody says you have to go to Skye :)

But it is a long way to go for the chance to see something. They don't call it the Misty Isle for nothing. I visited three times before I saw a darned thing. But that third trip was AMAZING.

>>Yes, one of us IS over 60! Finally getting to cash in on old age, yay!<<

I'd still check out the Two Travel Together scheme. Might end up saving you even more than the senior pass (or not)

National Rail Enquiries - Two Together Railcard

[QUOTE=janisj;16657470]OR -- you could drop Skye. I know, I know . . . everybody says you have to go to Skye :)

But it is a long way to go for the chance to see something. They don't call it the Misty Isle for nothing. I visited three times before I saw a darned thing. But that third trip was AMAZING.[QUOTE]


We had such a magical time on Skye, I have dreamed of going back. That being said, we had REALLY good weather for Skye and I could end up being massively disappointed trying to share/recreate that trip with my friend. I just can't imagine saying I went back to Scotland and didn't see Skye again.https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...9e149b24ae.jpg

My daughter and I at the Fairy Pools on Skye
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...ebb212c9c7.jpg

Looking back at the Cuillins from Loch Harport

That view of the Cullins is why everyone needs to see Skye at least once

Went to the National Railway Museum last Tuesday.

Enjoyed it immensely, but half of it was closed for a Tim Peake [the British Astronaut] exhibition, which was starting the following day, lasting for several weeks. Shame really, the NRM is a great venue, attracting 100s of 1,000s of visitors, and should be kept firmly as the NRM, not shared with some Outer Space explorer.

Wow! annhig 22 pounds first class reurn Coventry - London return - if they give free food even more a bargain!

PalenQ - we quite often go from York to Edinburgh for the day.
Last time I paid £31 first class return. I'm not over 60 so this was full price, but we booked nearly 6 months in advance, which you can do on week days. It included breakfast and an evening meal.
The ticket allows entry to the rather nice First Class Lounge in Edinburgh where we often have a break and a drink (shopping can be exhausting!) before catching our train home.

Thanks Morgana - early bird gets a big worm - 31 quid return 1st class! The cost of meals makes it a better deal and served at seat. Yes on that line a world of different between 1st and 2nd class - just can't see why some say there is little difference between classes. On some trains like regional trains not much but on long-distance trains often a huge difference.

Back again with an update. After a reality check by me, the over achiever (I want to see everything in 16 days) and this forum (the voices of reason), we have decided to omit York from our itinerary. It was of interest mostly to me due to my father and I would enjoy seeing it with my daughters, so I'll be back! Besides, once I told my bird-loving, outdoorsy friend about Mull, the decision was made.

I've been encouraging my friend to at least do some research so she can have some input on what we do. She's a love and would be happy doing anything, but planning a trip is a big part of the fun! Out of the blue she texted me GREENWICH and later asked about Avebury vs Stonehenge. Having not seen any of them, I am fully supportive of doing so and viola, she has some day trips to plan while we are in London :).

So here's the plan so far:
Sep 7 depart SFO for LHR
Sep 8-13 London
Sep 14-24 Scotland- Edinburgh, Inchmahome, Skye and Mull
depart LHR Sep 24 at 2pm ( We haven't bought plane tickets from Scotland to LHR yet so we can leave from GLA or EDI in the morning)

I want some advice on the best route to take in Scotland. Would it be more efficient to take a train to Edinburgh and start there, or train to Glasgow and go to Mull first? If we end in Edinburgh, we can fly out from there. If we fly out of GLA we will need to spend one of our nights there.

Also, recommendations for B&Bs or hotels (nothing fancy we are on a budget) in these locations would be greatly appreciated. We are hosteling it in London, but since we can split costs, I want to be more comfortable in Scotland.
TIA!

Nice (new) plan.

>>Would it be more efficient to take a train to Edinburgh and start there, or train to Glasgow and go to Mull first?<<

Makes no real difference since jet lag won't be an issue. I'd perhaps lean towards flying in to GLA and doing Mull first, then Skye, then the Trossachs/Inchmahome, drop the car and finish up in Edinburgh.

Re places to stay - what is your budget? If you can get in I would highly recommend Seaview bed and breakfast | Award winning four star gold bed and breakfast accommodation Fionnphort Isle of Mull close to the Isle of Iona,Abbey and Staffa ferry in Fionnphort. It is VERY convenient to that end of the island and Iona and the food is wonderful. I'd stay there over Tobermory but that would be OK too.

Sorry about the long title for Seaview's link -- I just entered the url and Fodors converted to all that . . .

[QUOTE=janisj;16661325]Nice (new) plan.

Makes no real difference since jet lag won't be an issue. I'd perhaps lean towards flying in to GLA and doing Mull first, then Skye, then the Trossachs/Inchmahome, drop the car and finish up in Edinburgh.[QUOTE]

So you would recommend flying up to Scotland rather than taking the train?

Flying or train makes little difference really -- but if you are picking up a car and heading out (to say Mull) it would be easier to collect your car at the airport and be on the road to Mull in a few minutes.

Also when looking for lodgings in Edinburgh I found several the best prices were not on Airbnb but rather on HomeAway.

I'd consider taking trains London-Scotland and maybe doing a few-hour stop in lovely York en route (or a whole day) - anyway rather scenic ride after Newcastle as it goes along sea at many points. There is also the Caledonia Sleeper trains that are the ultimate daytime time saver - they go to Glasgow and Edinburgh and even places like Ft William and Inverness, etc. National Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetables for train info and booking your own. Sleeper train: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your...donian-sleeper.

So here's what we have so far:

Sep 8- 12- London
Sep 13 train to Glasgow- stay Kilmartin area
Sep 14-16 Mull
Sep 17-19 Skye
Sep 20 Callander
Sep 21-23 EDI
Sep 24 fly EDI to LHR in the am for pm flight

The flights from London to GLA just seemed more complicated and an early departure put us in the middle of rush hour. I "street viewed" the route from the central train station in Glasgow to the A82 and it looks way better than driving in Edinburgh (I definitely would NOT do that again!). For those of you who are familiar with Glasgow, correct me if I am wrong! We'll stop in Kilmartin for one night so we can enjoy the drive there and spend some time wandering the sites the next day before we head to Mull. The drive from Skye to Callander will be our longest so the plan is to see Inchmahome and possibly Doune on the way to Edinburgh on the 21st.

Janisj, your suggestions of places to stay on Mull and Skye are awesome! I wanted to stay at Sligachan the last time, but with 3 of us it was not in the budget. The sad thing is, both place's twin rooms are booked for the above dates :(. And I thought we were planning well in advance! We will either need to pay more for a family room (I love my BFF, but we need 2 beds!), or stay somewhere else which bums me out.

We could try and reverse our route so we do Skye before Mull. If we do that, the twin room on Mull is available. Still booked at Sligachan though. The cheapest family room at Sligachan is $254 (US) a night- gulp. Doing this route would mean driving from Kilmartin to Edinburgh which is longer.
Sep 8- 12- London
Sep 13 train to Glasgow- stay Callander
Sep 14-16 Skye
Sep 17-19 Mull
Sep 20 Kilmartin
Sep 21-23 EDI
Sep 24 fly EDI to LHR in the am for pm flight

OR, we try something like this:

Sep 8- 12- London
Sep 13-15- EDI
Sep 16- Callander
Sep 17-19 Skye (no twin room)
Sep 20-22 Mull (Twin room available)
Sep 23 GLA (see Kilmartin on the way from Mull to GLA)
Sep 24 fly GLA to LHR in the am for pm flight

I need fresh eyes on these plans. I am beginning to get cross-eyed! Any way we do it, we are either stuck paying more than we want to stay at Sligachan, or we try and find somewhere else to stay on Skye. I want to book the rooms asap since it's clear our dates are filling up. Thanks AGAIN for your awesome help and advice!

Any would work but I do like your third option and just stay in Portree if Sligachan is too pricey or unavailable. You wouldn't have to stay AT GLA on the 23rd. You could stay somewhere along Loch Lomond like Tarbet or Luss and be w/i an easy drive of GLA. Kilmartin to Tarbet only takes about 90 minutes so you'd have a fair amount of time to explore the area. And Tarbet to GLA take barely 45 minutes, Luss to GLA about half an hour.

But a half-day or so in Glasgow could be nice - especially old Victorian parts.

You might be interested in this site for info on the RAF base at East Moor, Sutton on the Forest.
RAF East Moor, Yorkshire
Even if there is not much there now I highly recommend a visit. Two years ago I visited the area where my dad was based at Chelveston and I still have to pinch myself that I was there. I was blessed to have two local people from the 305th Bomb Group memorial group show my husband and I around. A few concrete block buildings and a couple of crumbling bomb shelters remain but not much else of the base.

If you are going to take the train to Scotland consider taking the night train. It will save you sightseeing time and could be an interesting experience.

See: https://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm

It looks like you have decided not to stop at Inchmahome and Doune, but just in case your plans are not set in stone, I wanted to give you a recommendation for a b&b in Doune. It was one of our favorite b&b's in Scotland.

welcome - Glenardoch House Bed & Breakfast

The home is beautiful, the rooms are comfortable and spacious and the breakfast was amazing.

We really enjoyed Doune castle. We picked it because we thought our teens would enjoy the Monty Python connection (we saw Spamalot in London) but we all enjoyed it. The audio really makes the castle come alive and gives you a sense of what all the spaces were like when the castle was in use.

I've taken Caledonian Sleepers thrice and loved it twice. When I had private compartments - one time I decided to sit in regular seats at no extra fee and though they promised 'reclining seats' they barely did and very little room between them. A nightmare. But private compartments were amongst the nicest night trains I've ridden which includes those all over Europe.

Can't imagine why anyone would choose seats over berths unless broke. After all, you aren't paying for a hotel room.

We will be visiting Inchmahome and possibly Doune on the way from Edinburgh to Callander. The Glenardoch House looks absolutely lovely, but I am travelling with a friend and need 2 beds. They only have doubles. Thank you for the suggestion though!

That site is where I got the information that I have on Eastmoor. I have shared some great pictures with others on there who had family stationed there. This trip we will unfortunately be skipping it. I would rather share a visit there with my daughters. While my friend would happily tag along, it holds no meaning for her. Thank you forgoing to the trouble of finding that site for me. It is certainly obscure so not may know about it. A reason to return, eh?( Had to show my Canadian there since Eastmoor was an RCAF base :))

Thank you for the suggestion! I think this is what we might do! An easy departure sounds great to me.

If your friend is interested in Greenwich, I highly recommend the painted hall tours

https://www.ornc.org/painted-hall-ceiling-tours-tickets