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-   -   UK Citizenship by Marriage (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/uk-citizenship-by-marriage-640386/)

P_M Aug 21st, 2006 03:56 AM

Joe, I guess you and I will agree to disagree. I still think the best advice is to contact the proper authorities.

Alec Aug 21st, 2006 05:54 AM

BTilke
I don't know who you've spoken to, but restricting visits abroad to less than 28 days at a time is a complete news to me. I have looked up naturalisation rules on Home Office site and nowhere does it state that you can't be out of the country for more than 4 weeks at a time. The limits are as I've stated. I suggest that you contact Home Office personally (there's a telephone enquiry number) and re-check. I just don't want you to feel constrained to take longer holidays abroad because of some misinterpretation (I'm not blaming anyone for it) over the details.
Many people who are naturalised come from the Indian subcontinent where it's customary for peole to take a long break of several months' duration. I haven't heard of any change in rules having an effect on their travel pattern.

For your information, here is the residential qualification for those not married to British citizen:

3. The residential requirements are that:

a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note3) at the beginning of the five-year period that ended on the date the application is received;

b. in the five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 450 days (see Note 4)

c. in the last twelve months of that five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days;

d. in the last 12 months of that five-year period, his or her stay in the United Kingdom was not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5); and

e. he or she was not at any time in that five-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

From http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/app...ity/advice/bn7

BTilke Aug 21st, 2006 07:19 AM

Alec, we were told of the 28-day restriction *most recently* by a) the woman at Immigration control at Brussels Gare du Midi (last week) b) at Immigration at LGW when returning to the UK from three weeks in the U.S. (Dec. 05) and c) from the National Insurance official we spoke to when putting together our paperwork for our national insurance numbers (a few months ago)

If this is totally inaccurate, then someone needs to spread the word to these people because it's not a number WE made up.

Alec Aug 21st, 2006 07:56 AM

I see, but none of the people actually deal with naturalisation applications so can't be expected to know residential details as part of their job specification.
You should speak to Home Office Immigration and Nationality Directorate, the people who deal with and process your (eventual) application for citizenship. The nationality section is now in Liverpool and their contact details are:
Home Office IND
Managed Migration Directorate
Nationality Group
PO Box 12
Liverpool
L69 2UX

Telephone: 0845 010 5200

Hope they can clear up any ambiguity, and plaese post back their replies.

BTilke Aug 21st, 2006 08:02 AM

But why are THEY giving out this information?

tod Aug 21st, 2006 08:29 AM

Wish I could get a British Passport! Born & bred in the "old colonies" you know!
Although I was born in Kenya during 1944 and my birth certificate states
"British Subject By Birth" I haven't got a hope in hell!
Now, my husband can apply as his dad is from Yorkshire although he(my husband) was born in South Africa. Likewise my son, as it's his grand-dad, but he(my son) must then reside in Britain for 5 years etc. etc.
Boo hoo hoo! Mummy wants one too!!

BTilke Aug 21st, 2006 08:37 AM

Tod, our sympathies. My husband's brother and sister would be eligible for German passports as they were born while my FiL was still a German citizen. But he gave up his German nationality and became a Canadian--a year later, my husband was born. His brother and sister have no interest in living overseas, of course. So my husband has fallen back on his Right of Abode, which is like being the bats in Aesop's fable of the war between the birds and the beasts, when it comes to getting a passport from EU countries ;-)

Stellarossa Aug 21st, 2006 08:45 AM

I don't think this is a troll, merely someone, like myself, slightly bewildered by the reams of stuff on various websites that basically tell you to call a premium-rate number for 20 minutes in order to possibly answer your question.

Everyone's situation is different and so no amount of pre-recorded information is really that reliable especially - as one person alluded to- when you're dealing with British authorities.

PS Can my wife get a British passport? Sheila, you know my situation.

Alec Aug 21st, 2006 08:54 AM

Britoish nationality law is perhaps the most complex in the world, due mainly to Britain's long colonial and Commonwealth history. At various times, different groups of people were given British citizenship of one sort or another, and it's been a nightmare to clear up ambiguities created by history. Basically the British government is restricting citizenship to those who genuinely have strong connection with and commitment to the UK, now and in the future.

Alec Aug 21st, 2006 09:04 AM

BTilke

I don't know why they are mentionting this '28-day' rule. I thought it might have something to do with your visa (I presume you have a spouse visa of someone settled in UK), but there's nothing to suggest that you can't be away for longer than 4 weeks or you somehow forfeit your visa. Also the person at DWP (who deal with NI) might be talking about some kind of benefits rule, like you forfeit your rights to certain benefits if you are absent more than certain days. But even then it has nothing to do with your eventual naturalisation application.
As I said, Home Office staff at Liverpool can hopefully put your mind at rest.

nona1 Aug 21st, 2006 10:35 PM

BTilke,

No I think you may be right. My other half has an indefinite leave to remain and there were definitely restrictions on leaving the country for more than a certain number of days in one go. I'll see if I can find the details.

BTilke Aug 22nd, 2006 01:29 AM

Alec, we were told that going out of the UK for more than 28 days at one go would not have any impact on my visa. Where it MIGHT have an impact would be on the approval/processing of a UK passport/citizenship application. Or so we were told (honestly, we're NOT making this stuff up).

MissPrism Aug 22nd, 2006 02:49 AM

You really need expert face to face advice.

I suggest that you go into the website
Solicitors Online
http://tinyurl.com/raz5n

Type in your location and choose England as the country (remember that Scottish law is different)
Then choose Immigration Law in the Area of Law section.
This will tell you the nearest solicitor who can help you.

Alternatively, you can go to a Citizens Advice Bureau
Many of them will have an Immigration consultant.
Go to http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
click on "getting advice" and you will see a form where you can find your nearest bureau.

Another source of information is a local Law Centre
Go to http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/
and search for a local centre.
Many of them will have an immigration expert and the service is free.

kswl Aug 22nd, 2006 05:10 AM

Joe: there are always some people who have appointed themselves as message board police. It's a pointless, ridiculous job, but some people are drawn to it like moths to a porch light. :)

Alec Aug 22nd, 2006 06:06 AM

BTilke

Here is the link to the full details of Home Office rules and caseworking instructions (internal manual) about naturalisation (it's very long!):
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/nichapter18/ (esp Annex B: The residential requirements)

sheila Aug 22nd, 2006 01:06 PM

As it happens I AM an immigration lawyer. The answer I gave earlier shows the problem with making assumptions and not asking questions- which I would never do in my practice.

I can't think why I'm entering this discussion between Alec and Brenda but Alec's right.

The direct quote from the published guidance is

"To satisfy the residence requirement you should not have been absent for
more than 90 days in the last 12 months. And the total number of days
absence for the whole 5 year period should not exceed 450. If you are
married to a British citizen the total number of days absence for the whole
3 year period should not exceed 270."

Exactly as Alec says, many aspirants to naturalisation are from far away and take long holidays to go home. The rules were fixed round that circumstance.

Tony, you're never thinking of giving up Nirvana and coming home, are you?

The rules are that you must be

1. 18 or over
2. of sound mind (given that she married you.....?)
3. can communicate in English to an acceptable degree (or Welsh or
Scottish Gaelic, you'll be pleased to know.) (she's American, isn't she? Could be an issue)
4. Have sufficient knowledge about life in the UK
5. are of good character
6. Have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years before you apply.

You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland,
Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 5
years before the application date, and you must be free of immigration restrictions.

You should not have been absent for more than 270
days of which no more than 90 days should have been taken in the last
12 months.

So, no, not yet. But after 3 years living here, no bother. And she should be able to get a spouse visa without a problem either.

sheila Aug 22nd, 2006 01:14 PM

and, Ms Prism, although it pains me to say so, this is one area where the same law applies throughout the UK- the exception being the Scottish Fresh Talent scheme

Joe18 Aug 22nd, 2006 05:55 PM

kswl, I don't know who you mean, but maybe me?? OK, but I still prefer information to unsolicited advice.

kswl Aug 22nd, 2006 06:02 PM

No, Joe! I meant the people who answer without answering. Sorry to have been so unclear, I was just agreeing with you. :)


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