UK Citizenship by Marriage
 

If I am married to a UK citizen, what is the total number of years and what are the steps until the acquisition of the UK passport/citizenship?

With all due respect, I think this question s/b addressed to the British authorities. There could be a few people on this board with first hand experience, but for the most current info you need to go straight to the source. I can't speak for the UK, but I know that the US has tightened up greatly in recent years, and it's entirely possible the UK has done the same.

OK - karlik. You register to ask very important citizenship/passport questions (your other thread is about how to re-claim your Russian citizenship).

No one on Fodors can give you the sorts of advice you need. It sounds like you are weaving a very complicated life story . . . . .

Since apparently you are resident in the States you need to contact the Russian and UK Embassy/Consulates.

Are you really asking, "how long do I have to put up with them?"

LOL, L84SKY!!

I posted my reply before seeing the other thread about Russian citizenship. karlik, if you've lived in the US all these years, it would seem you are eligible to apply for US citizenship. Is that not an option for you?

I don't understand why people who don't know the answer to this reasonable question have responded. I'd guess that one or more Fodorites may have actual experience with this and can describe what their experience has been.

I believe janis and I did give a reasonable answer and that was to contact the proper authorities. As I stated above, even if someone on this board does have such experience, it's always possible the process has changed recently.

Being married to a UK citizen does not of itself give you the right to UK citizenship.

Assuming marriage is your only connection with the UK, you need in most cases to have lived legally in the UK for three years, to be of good character, to be fluent in English, Welsh or Scots Gaelic, and to demonstrate knowledge of the UK. To do that, you need to have applied for, and got, leave to remain in the UK.

British Embassies and consulates are often unhelpful, or mainly offer expensive premium rate advice lines. The first step is to write to the Home Office for advice (http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/app...ity/advice/bn1). Getting a reply might take several months, so download Guide AN from http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/app...msandguidance/

Be fluent in English? Now there's a thought.

Actually that's not quite right, flanner.

You need to have been entitled to be here and to have been here for 5 years before you can apply.

so:-

1. Marry a Brit. Timescale for that is up to you and him/her.

2. Get Brit to move to Britain. Ditto.

3. Apply for visa in your home country on grounds of marriage. Normally granted subject to caveats flanner expressed, for 2 years.

4. Stay in UK for 1 year 11 months, and then apply for ILR.

5. 3 years later you can apply for naturalisation.

The detail is buried in here

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/

which also provides a link to UK visas web site.

That'll be 10 guineas, please.

Sheila,

If by ILR, you mean Indefinite Leave to Remain, you don't need to live in the UK for 1 year, 11 months, before you get it. My "Settlement Wife" visa with ILR came before we had officially moved to the UK. However, we have been married longer than 17 years (an odd number to pick, but that's the one everyone talked about). And my husband isn't even a UK citizen, although he is Canadian with UK Right to Abode. We have both been told we need to have lived in the UK for 5 years before getting UK citizenship and that we also shouldn't have left the country for more than 28 days at any one time during those 5 years.

If the OP has been married to her British husband for a fairly short time period, the immigration people may not give her ILR. If they've been married for many years, she may get ILR immediately, as I did. Also, the OP's husband has to submit a letter indicating she is the ONLY wife he plans to bring into the UK...apparently having other wives is ok, but you can only get visas for one at a time ;-)

In our experience with dealing with British authorities, you need to be wary that the answer someone casually gives you over the phone, etc., might NOT be the correct answer. We were first told I could apply for my UK passport after 3 years; I said that seemed odd since my husband was told 5 years and he's the one who already had the right to be in the UK. There was some back and forth chatter for a bit and then we were told, yes, it's five years for both. (The stuff happens with most countries' consular/visa staff...always check to see if the first answer given is in fact the correct one.)

Sheila and BTilke are almost right in what they say.
If you have been married to a British citizen (or someone with Right of Abode, as in BTilke's husband) for less than 4 years, you can only get a leave to enter for an initial period of two years, and during the last month of its validity you can apply for settlement (ILR). If you have been married for 4 years or more, you can apply for settlement straightaway. In either case, you can apply for naturalisation on account of marriage to a British citizen after 3 years' residence in UK, with a restriction of how many days you can be away during that period (it's more than 28 days a year - no more than 270 days in total during the three years, and no more than 90 days in past 12 months). Also you must have ILR (settled status) on the day you apply. For someone not married to a British citizen like BTilke, the qualifying period is 5 years' residence, no more than 450 days' absence in total and no more than 90 days in past year, plus at least a year on ILR.

I did not say only 28 days per year, I said 28 days absence at one go (i.e., no month in Paris for us). We were told about this particular rule by several authorities and an immigration lawyer, so we intend to stick with it.

Other than flannersUK's Home Office site, there is a handy summary of rules by immigration lawyers at http://www.workpermit.com/uk/naturalisation.htm
Currently, an application for naturalisation is taking around 6 months to process, and it should be noted that naturalisation is at the discretion of Home Secretary, not a right, and there is no right of appeal for refusals. Criminal record checks will be made of applicants, and you have to provide two referees who are British citizens. And you have to pass computerised test on the knowledge of Britain, and attend a citizenship ceremony (like in US, Australia etc).

BTilke
I don't want to disagree with you, but I think you are mistaken. It is, in your case, no more 450 days in total for the five years, and no more than 90 days in aggregate during the final year before applying.
You have to show, as someone not married to Britsih citizen, that you intend to live permanently in UK (i.e. making UK your home) after naturalisation (or working abroad on Crown service, for British company and so on), to demonstrate your continuing commitment to UK.

My wife (South African) did this some years ago. At that stage she could apply for permanent residence after 1 year. Once this was granted, she could have left me (She didn't :-) ).

After another 3 years she applied for, and was granted citizenship. This involved swearing an oath including alliegeance to the monarch. So if "her maj" pops in for a cup of tea, I can be abusive, while my beloved has to behave herself !

As Flanner and others have pointed out, things have changed.

Swearing oath of allegiance is still there, for non-Commonwealth citizens seeking naturalisation - it's now done during the Citizenship Ceremony. Plus singing of National Anthem (all about the monarch!) and promising to uphold Britain's democratic values.

P_M, the posts from flanneruk, shiela, alec, etc. provide information that's helpful. You provided advice that didn't respond to the question.

Joe18: They <i>may</i> have helped, but the ONLY sure advice is what our friend karlik gets when he contacts the Embassy/Consulate/Home Office.

Getting this sort of advice from an internet forum is a sign of either a troll or someone afraid to contact the authorities. When you look at both of his threads - I think it is more likely the latter than the former . . . . . .

Alec, if there's a mistake being made, it's being made by the British authorities we've spoken with and not us. Unless you're suggesting that when a British authority says that we can't be out of the UK for more than 28 days at any one time, we are too stupid to understand what they're saying...?

Joe, I guess you and I will agree to disagree. I still think the best advice is to contact the proper authorities.

BTilke
I don't know who you've spoken to, but restricting visits abroad to less than 28 days at a time is a complete news to me. I have looked up naturalisation rules on Home Office site and nowhere does it state that you can't be out of the country for more than 4 weeks at a time. The limits are as I've stated. I suggest that you contact Home Office personally (there's a telephone enquiry number) and re-check. I just don't want you to feel constrained to take longer holidays abroad because of some misinterpretation (I'm not blaming anyone for it) over the details.
Many people who are naturalised come from the Indian subcontinent where it's customary for peole to take a long break of several months' duration. I haven't heard of any change in rules having an effect on their travel pattern.

For your information, here is the residential qualification for those not married to British citizen:

3. The residential requirements are that:

a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note3) at the beginning of the five-year period that ended on the date the application is received;

b. in the five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 450 days (see Note 4)

c. in the last twelve months of that five-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days;

d. in the last 12 months of that five-year period, his or her stay in the United Kingdom was not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5); and

e. he or she was not at any time in that five-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

From http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/app...ity/advice/bn7

Alec, we were told of the 28-day restriction *most recently* by a) the woman at Immigration control at Brussels Gare du Midi (last week) b) at Immigration at LGW when returning to the UK from three weeks in the U.S. (Dec. 05) and c) from the National Insurance official we spoke to when putting together our paperwork for our national insurance numbers (a few months ago)

If this is totally inaccurate, then someone needs to spread the word to these people because it's not a number WE made up.

I see, but none of the people actually deal with naturalisation applications so can't be expected to know residential details as part of their job specification.
You should speak to Home Office Immigration and Nationality Directorate, the people who deal with and process your (eventual) application for citizenship. The nationality section is now in Liverpool and their contact details are:
Home Office IND
Managed Migration Directorate
Nationality Group
PO Box 12
Liverpool
L69 2UX

Telephone: 0845 010 5200

Hope they can clear up any ambiguity, and plaese post back their replies.

But why are THEY giving out this information?

Wish I could get a British Passport! Born &amp; bred in the &quot;old colonies&quot; you know!
Although I was born in Kenya during 1944 and my birth certificate states
&quot;British Subject By Birth&quot; I haven't got a hope in hell!
Now, my husband can apply as his dad is from Yorkshire although he(my husband) was born in South Africa. Likewise my son, as it's his grand-dad, but he(my son) must then reside in Britain for 5 years etc. etc.
Boo hoo hoo! Mummy wants one too!!

Tod, our sympathies. My husband's brother and sister would be eligible for German passports as they were born while my FiL was still a German citizen. But he gave up his German nationality and became a Canadian--a year later, my husband was born. His brother and sister have no interest in living overseas, of course. So my husband has fallen back on his Right of Abode, which is like being the bats in Aesop's fable of the war between the birds and the beasts, when it comes to getting a passport from EU countries ;-)

I don't think this is a troll, merely someone, like myself, slightly bewildered by the reams of stuff on various websites that basically tell you to call a premium-rate number for 20 minutes in order to possibly answer your question.

Everyone's situation is different and so no amount of pre-recorded information is really that reliable especially - as one person alluded to- when you're dealing with British authorities.

PS Can my wife get a British passport? Sheila, you know my situation.

Britoish nationality law is perhaps the most complex in the world, due mainly to Britain's long colonial and Commonwealth history. At various times, different groups of people were given British citizenship of one sort or another, and it's been a nightmare to clear up ambiguities created by history. Basically the British government is restricting citizenship to those who genuinely have strong connection with and commitment to the UK, now and in the future.

BTilke

I don't know why they are mentionting this '28-day' rule. I thought it might have something to do with your visa (I presume you have a spouse visa of someone settled in UK), but there's nothing to suggest that you can't be away for longer than 4 weeks or you somehow forfeit your visa. Also the person at DWP (who deal with NI) might be talking about some kind of benefits rule, like you forfeit your rights to certain benefits if you are absent more than certain days. But even then it has nothing to do with your eventual naturalisation application.
As I said, Home Office staff at Liverpool can hopefully put your mind at rest.

BTilke,

No I think you may be right. My other half has an indefinite leave to remain and there were definitely restrictions on leaving the country for more than a certain number of days in one go. I'll see if I can find the details.

Alec, we were told that going out of the UK for more than 28 days at one go would not have any impact on my visa. Where it MIGHT have an impact would be on the approval/processing of a UK passport/citizenship application. Or so we were told (honestly, we're NOT making this stuff up).

You really need expert face to face advice.

I suggest that you go into the website
Solicitors Online
http://tinyurl.com/raz5n

Type in your location and choose England as the country (remember that Scottish law is different)
Then choose Immigration Law in the Area of Law section.
This will tell you the nearest solicitor who can help you.

Alternatively, you can go to a Citizens Advice Bureau
Many of them will have an Immigration consultant.
Go to http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
click on &quot;getting advice&quot; and you will see a form where you can find your nearest bureau.

Another source of information is a local Law Centre
Go to http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/
and search for a local centre.
Many of them will have an immigration expert and the service is free.

Joe: there are always some people who have appointed themselves as message board police. It's a pointless, ridiculous job, but some people are drawn to it like moths to a porch light. :)

BTilke

Here is the link to the full details of Home Office rules and caseworking instructions (internal manual) about naturalisation (it's very long!):
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/nichapter18/ (esp Annex B: The residential requirements)

As it happens I AM an immigration lawyer. The answer I gave earlier shows the problem with making assumptions and not asking questions- which I would never do in my practice.

I can't think why I'm entering this discussion between Alec and Brenda but Alec's right.

The direct quote from the published guidance is

&quot;To satisfy the residence requirement you should not have been absent for
more than 90 days in the last 12 months. And the total number of days
absence for the whole 5 year period should not exceed 450. If you are
married to a British citizen the total number of days absence for the whole
3 year period should not exceed 270.&quot;

Exactly as Alec says, many aspirants to naturalisation are from far away and take long holidays to go home. The rules were fixed round that circumstance.

Tony, you're never thinking of giving up Nirvana and coming home, are you?

The rules are that you must be

1. 18 or over
2. of sound mind (given that she married you.....?)
3. can communicate in English to an acceptable degree (or Welsh or
Scottish Gaelic, you'll be pleased to know.) (she's American, isn't she? Could be an issue)
4. Have sufficient knowledge about life in the UK
5. are of good character
6. Have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years before you apply.

You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland,
Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 5
years before the application date, and you must be free of immigration restrictions.

You should not have been absent for more than 270
days of which no more than 90 days should have been taken in the last
12 months.

So, no, not yet. But after 3 years living here, no bother. And she should be able to get a spouse visa without a problem either.

and, Ms Prism, although it pains me to say so, this is one area where the same law applies throughout the UK- the exception being the Scottish Fresh Talent scheme

kswl, I don't know who you mean, but maybe me?? OK, but I still prefer information to unsolicited advice.

No, Joe! I meant the people who answer without answering. Sorry to have been so unclear, I was just agreeing with you. :)