Two weeks in Switzerland ... where, when?
 

Dear Fodorites,
My husband and I are planning to spend about two weeks in Switzerland in early fall (we are in our 60s, enjoy cities, scenery, history, museums, food & wine, strolling) and after reading many helpful threads here and some other research, I've come up with this tentative plan for a first-time visit, about which I'd welcome your comments.
We don't like to chase around, moving hotels every couple of days, and we plan to travel by train while in Switzerland. We have a healthy but not extravagant budget for the trip, and we're thinking September 17-ish as a start date, to take advantage of the shoulder season airfare.
We'd fly to Zurich, transfer by train to Lucerne, and spend 5 nights there, taking it easy on arrival day. We'd explore the city and plan to visit Rigi and Zurich or Bern on separate day trips.
Thence by train to Wengen, where we'd spend 4 or 5 nights, taking easy walks and visiting the waterfalls in Lauterbrunnen and spending a day on the trip to Jungfraujoch.
Finally, we'd go by train to Lausanne, where we'd spend 4 or 5 nights, exploring the city, visiting the castle, perhaps Vevey and some vineyards, before flying home from Geneva.
We might do the trip in reverse, depending on air schedules and prices. Does this sound like a decent plan to experience different aspects of the country? I haven't done the math to decide on the Swiss Travel Pass or Half-Fare Card and welcome your advice there.
Many thanks in advance for sharing your expertise.

Your itinerary is not bad for a first timer. I have a few comments.
>>> We have a healthy but not extravagant budget for the trip, and we're thinking September 17-ish as a start date, to take advantage of the shoulder season airfare.
Switzerland is an expensive country to visit in the continent even after you land there. Choosing a shoulder season with a mid-week departure is a good start. Now combine that with accommodations angle to optimize the overall cost. The length of time you are staying brings rentals as possibility. However, rentals come with stiff cancellation penalties if your itinerary is not solid.

>>> We don't like to chase around, moving hotels every couple of days, and we plan to travel by train while in Switzerland.
If this is a standalone thinking, you might want to consider the overall benefit. If cutting a stay at a place one day short provides you with tremendous benefit elsewhere, ability to visit somewhere otherwise not possible with minimum loss at the short-changed location, do you still stick with mechanical so many days here so many days there thinking? Also, what don't you like about moving around? If it is packing and unpacking because you are a heavy packer, a train travel would be a chore in any case.

>>> transfer by train to Lucerne, and spend 5 nights there, taking it easy on arrival day. We'd explore the city and plan to visit Rigi and Zurich or Bern on separate day trips.
If you like cities, this is a good plan. If you want to spend time on what Switzerland offers that other countries would be hard to match are the mountains and lakes, From Luzern, Rigi is an low altitude mountain. I liked it because it offers an interesting lake-mountain combo. However more impressive mountains await from Luzern. Mt. Pliatus is practically at the edge of the city and little further away Mt. Titlis is a high altitude mountain about 230 m lower than the Jungfrau.

Yes very nice relaxed itinerary IMO. Why staying in Lausanne? Nice city but a large busy city though the lakeside district is not and nicely set on the lake. But many here say Vevey or Montreux are nicer - neat smaller towns all in all more romantic than Lausanne as a whole. Swiss Travel Pass could be best deal if you take day trips from those places - pass of course covers boats too - and covers the special scenic Golden Pass trains in full that you could (and should IMO) take between Lucerne and Interlaken and from Interlaken to Montreux via Gstaad - much more scenic than the quicker mainline route. Anyway for lots on Swiss trains and passes check www.swisstravelsystem.com - www.sbb.ch for schedules and fares - general info - BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

I think the idea of using bases for daytrips is probably a good idea budget-wise. I found Zurich lodging to be ridiculously expensive, so doing Zurich as a daytrip from Lucerne makes some sense, financially, to me, if you can find cheaper lodging in Lucerne (perhaps an apartment). As to a Bern daytrip, I probably sound like a broken record on this, but Bern is an easy daytrip from Wengen, and if you were to shift one day from Lucerne to Wengen, that would give you more flexibility in the event that you have poor weather (low cloud ceilings) during your stay in Wengen. In Lucerne, the weather is much less of a factor, and with the exception of a Rigi excursion, should not affect your schedule as much.

We did a 2 week trip in June 2016 and purchased the 15 day travel pass. I'm not sure if you'd save much money, but if the cost is close, you might want to consider that. It's really liberating to know that you can just jump on a train, boat, or bus, as the whim strikes you without having to worry about it costing you more money.

Yeah nice to have a pass if traveling much as OP is - and yes plan for funky weather in Wengen and then with pass just jump on trains to Bern without thinking about cost - probably 90 minutes or so each way maybe bit more. Passes are fully valid up to Wengen and also on city transports, lake boats, postal buses and nearly all trains in Switzerland.

Should be a great trip!

I think twk has a good point about planning to visit Bern from Wengen -- the Bernese Oberland is an area where a bit of flexibility can go a long way. :)

If you haven't already seen it, you might find some useful information in my trip report:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...thanks-983126/

Hi RaleighTraveler,

Yes, you have a good itinerary here, one that I often recommend because it's a nice mix of countryside and city, German and French, mountains and lakes. It's a good sampling of Switzerland.

I just have one question/suggestion -- where and how are you leaving the country? If you are flying out of Geneva, staying in Lausanne (or Montreux or Vevey) the last night will be fine. But if you are flying out of Zurich, you may want to arrange your stay in Luzern for the end (there are direct trains from Luzern to the airport that take about 1h). So if that's the case, just go from your arrival to Wengen, something I've done a bunch of times. Then to Lake Geneva and then finally to Luzern.

Have fun as you plan!

s

I would not choose Lausanne - it is not an easy town to find your way around in because of its layout. It sits on a long slope which is bisected by the old river beds of two rivers which have now disappeared. The result is that there are different levels in the town and it is impossible to tell from a map how to get from one to the other. The lakefront at Ouchy is lovely but a long way from the centre so you can't really take advantage of it easily - unless you get a hotel there. Montreux and Vevey are FAR more user-friendly, lakefront is right in the towns as well so going out for a stroll along the lake after dinner is easy and very nice. Problem this summer with Vevey is it is the Fête des Vignerons, a huge pagent that is held every 20-25 years and which involves the construction of a LARGE arena on the place du marché which is right in the old town. It will be over by the time you get here but very likely there will still be work going on to remove the arena, take the pilings out of the lake which will support the stage etc. For that reason I suggest you visit Vevey but not stay there.
There are many hotels in Montreux - to find one use www.montreuxriviera.com if you want a BnB there is an excellent one - I have visited it - at Chardonne which is above Vevey and reached by the Funicular from Vevey. The views from the lawn of that BnB will knock your socks off and the owners are charming as well. To find that - go to www.bnb.ch and search "Bibianne et René" at Chardonne.
For transport - all hotels, BnBs etc that are officially registered will give you a free Riviera Card which provides free and unlimited transport in the Vevey/Montreux area.
You also mentioned you like wine - make a trip to the Vinorama in Rivaz and sample the wines of the Lavaux!

When we did our trip in 2016, we looked at Lausanne, but ended up staying at Auberge de la Gare at Grandvaux, in the Lavaux vineyards just east of Lausanne. We really liked that place--it had an excellent restaurant, and only five rooms, located just 100 yards from the train station. If you end up opting for a pass rather than the half fare card, it's a particularly good option.

Auberge de la Gare, Grandvaux

...and there are 2 to 3 train connections every hr from Grandvaux to Lausanne as well as to Vevey - Montreux.

Day trip to Berne (highly recommended if you like medieval ciy centers and outstanding museums):
just 1 hr by train from Lucerne along the direct line or 1 1/2 hrs through the scenic rural Emmental and Entlebuch Valleys, but almost 2 hrs from Wengen.

Many thanks to y'all for your suggestions. I like the idea of Montreux or such instead of Lausanne and of adding a day to Wengen to allow for weather, flexibility and a trip to Bern. I especially appreciate your specific suggestions about lodging and the 15-day pass. We will fly home from Geneva and likely go there for one last night near the airport. We have found over the years that it's worth the expense and slight hassle to have a quick trip to the terminal for morning flights. I'll appreciate any further refinements and ideas you may share.

One of the best days of my life was the magical day we spent in the Berner Oberland area, taking a series of trains up the various mountains to the Jungfraujoch, and then maneuvering via a system of trains and cable cars to do the amazing mostly-downhill stroll -- a walk of breathtaking beauty -- from Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg. (The four adults were in their mid-50s and it was easy -- except for the planning!). I posted a couple years ago about the day and the route and our experience. I'll copy below a paraphrase of my post. Have a wonderful time.

My primary objectives were to get to the Jungfraujoch (“Top of Europe”) – taking a special train, the Jungfraubahn -- and to hike (the easy downhill way) the path between Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg, and to see as much as possible of the spectacular Berner Oberland area as possible in our ONE day there. There was a little back-tracking involved in this plan, because I wanted the downhill route (Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg, NOT KS to M, which would have been mostly uphill).



The night before we went to the Berner Oberland area, we went to the train station in Luzern to buy the train tickets. I had done a lot of research and knew the best deal would probably be buying half-fare cards and traveling second class, and we did not buy any seat reservations. The cost for my family of 3, including the half-fare card, for the entire day of travel (including the train to the Jungfraujoch), was somewhere around $850; just under $300 each. And because we bought the half-fare card, any other train travel during the validity period of the card was half-price (such as our trip to Zurich). The gondola in Wengen was something like $12 per person. This was summer 2016.

We found out the hard way we needed passports for each half-fare card we bought; my friend and I had left the husbands and kids to go to the train station to get the tickets, and when we learned we needed their passports we had to go find them, get all passports and go back to the train station. The PEOPLE didn’t all have to be present in the train station ticket office when buying the half-fare cards, but the passports did. And we needed to have the cards on us when traveling on the trains. One can buy a half-price ticket at the vending machines in the station without showing the half-fare card, so when we were on the trains and the ticket collectors came along asking for our tickets, as soon as they saw we had half-price tickets they wanted to see our half-price cards.

We took the 6:05 a.m. train from Luzern to Interlaken Ost, arriving around 8 a.m. Then we took a series of trains up the mountains, going via the Lauterbrunnen route, to Kleine Scheidegg where we got on the Jungfraubahn to the Top of Europe, arriving there around 10:30 a.m. We had plenty of time up top, got our passports stamped with the special “Top of Europe” stamp, went outside to see the lovely views and take photos, drank champagne and hot chocolate, and then took either the 12:30 or 1 p.m. train out (I think they left every half-hour). We then made our way by train to Wengen. While our train was stopped for a few minutes in Kleine Scheidegg on the way to Wengen, we dashed to the outdoor bar and quickly ordered sandwiches, chips and drinks to go so we could have a picnic on our hike. We got back on the train with the bags of food and continued to Wengen, where we got off and took a gondola up to Mannlichen. I think the gondola ride took about 10 minutes and it was fun. At Mannlichen we began the 90-minute glorious walk to Kleine Scheidegg and enjoyed the spectacular scenery and easy downhill (mostly) stroll amid the spectacular scenery, wildflowers, snow-capped mountains and beautiful skies. We were lucky in that the trail, which had been closed just the week before, was open. That day was Friday, June 24. We passed people going the opposite way, which was uphill most of the way and I was glad we were going downhill. I turned around a few times to see the view from the other direction, and I preferred the view going in our direction -- it was simply magnificent. We stopped partway down and enjoyed our picnic and the incomparable views.

When we arrived at Kleine Scheidegg again (our third time there that day, but necessary to do the hike in the direction we wanted), we boarded the train back down to Interlaken Ost but took the OTHER route, on the Grindelwald side, so we could see the other side of the area. All beautiful. We arrived at Interlaken Ost in time to have dinner in Interlaken before boarding the last train out to Luzern at 8 p.m., finally arriving back at our hotel in Luzern at 10:30 p.m.

It was a perfect day.

I must say that I didn’t find it difficult at all to visit Lausanne, which I greatly enjoyed – the ways to get from place to place were well marked on the maps in the guidebooks I used for my time in the area. I enjoyed Vevey, and liked Montreux, and can see reasons to stay in any one of them, depending on what you want to see and do.

I can't believe no-one mentioned the city of Gruyere – they make world-famous cheese (same name), and they have the Giger museum. You know, the guy who created Aliens. You can hang out in the castle, go to the cheese making factory (cool if you have kids) and, you know, eat raclette.

Yes, there are tons of nice day trips that one can do from Montreux.
Gruyeres castle, cheese diary and choccolate factory at nearby Broc is one of them, others are
Aquapark and Vapeurpark at Le Bouveret
Futuristic mountain trains to Lake Emosson/Mont Blanc https://verticalp-emosson.ch/en/phot...ascentsational
gondola to Glacier 3000
Roman theatres at Martigny and Avenches
Gorges of Chauderon, Trient and Orbe
WW2 Fortress at St. Maurice
Salt mines at Bex
Dozens of castles all around Lake Geneva
oldest playable organ of the world at Sion
etc. etc.

again, when going between Interlaken and Montreux take the Golden Pass scenic train which goes thru a neat Alpine Valley right to Montreux - bit slower than mainline route via Lausanne but much more scenic. Swiss Travel Passes covers it in full.

Another neat day trip from Montreux goes via boat to Evian-les-Bains in France - a spiffy spa town with the famous Evian mineral water. Casino also to replenish dwindling trip funds. Again STPasses valid in full even though it goes to France.

While you've already got plenty of really good suggestions already, I recommend Murten and Fribourg which I liked a lot, which shouldn't be too far away from Lausanne.
Not too far from Lucerne is the mountain of Fronalpstock, I liked the view here more than that of Rigi.
Do have a quick look at my TR: https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...untry-1647004/

Murten and Fribourg could be day trips but also would make a good base for a few days.

To be clear about the last suggestion -- there are no boats that go from Montreux to Evian. You can get to Evian by boat from Montreux if you take a boat going to Lausanne-Ouchy and change there to the "navette" or shuttle boat to Evian. This does make for a long day on the boats especially if you come back the same way. But you could go one way by boat and return from Evian via the shuttle boat and then metro to the Lausanne station and train to Montreux. To get the timetables for the boats use www.cgn.ch

Actually I would not bother with Evian unless there were an exhibition at the Palais de la Lumière that I wanted to see. (or I suppose if I wanted to "donate" at the Casino!!). Evian is nice but no more than that. What is really a lovely place on the lake in France is Yvoire which is a walled medieval village close to Geneva. You can make a day trip there from Montreux too. Train to Nyon, walk to the lake and shuttle boat the Yvoire. In the village at Yvoire is the Jardin de Cinq Sens which is a fascinating garden and well worth a visit. It is located in the old veg. garden of the ch teau. Lunch on the terrace of the Pré de la Cure hotel with lovely view down to the lake and right onto the walls of the village is also terrific. Order their perches with lemon sauce. To die for!! Nyon BTW is well worth a few hours of poking around and a visit to the ch teau is a must.

The train to Nyon then bus/boat to Yvoire seems awesome - I took the Lausanne-Evian boat mainly for the boat ride and I thought Evian was interesting from the spa point of view but not that awesome at all.

Few things on the planet are awesome I am afraid! Evian is a pretty town, lots of flowers and for those it regularly wins a "ville fleurie" award BUT unless you want to go to the spa (next to the Hilton hotel) or play golf (on the course where one of the LPGA majors is played) I think there are better places here in Switzerland. Yvoire is lovely especially once the flowers start to bloom in May. But never, ever go there on a weekend and never, ever in July and August. You cannot move in the streets!

Anyway the thing was to get a taste of France and Yvoire seems great. Does Evian have a casino? No big deal but seem to recall one - just curious.

Evian has a HUGE Casino right on the lakefront - quai Baron de Blonay. It is a very large "belle époque" building with an equally large sign "Casino" on it. Nice gardens around it etc. Maybe 500m from the boat pier and close to the Palais de la Lumière. So-so restaurant in the casino...
If you have't been to Yvoire do go. It is charming but also take on board the caveats above regarding time of visit! We go there several times a year to eat perches at the Pré de la Cure.

And for people who are not in a hurry (in contrast to most human beings posting in this forum): there are boats from Lausanne and Geneva (usually paddle steam boats) to Yvoire too; not only from Nyon
Evian may be combined with the Swiss Vapeur Park and the Aqua Park at Le Bouveret:
Boat from Lausanne Ouchy to Evian, bus to St. Gingholph, train or boat to Le Bouveret, boat to Vevey - Montreux (or vice versa).

There are boats to Yvoire from Geneva in spring and summer. None from Lausanne-Ouchy. The boats from Nyon to Yvoire are "navettes" or shuttles basically for people living in France and working in Switzerland (like the boats Ouchy-Evian. Coming from Montreux or vevey it makes far more sense to take the navette from Nyon.

You cannot combine Evian with le Bouveret by boat. (That route was discontinued years ago, sadly). And local bus service in the Haute Savoie is not frequent at all so not really an option.

If you want to go to the Vapeur Parc or Aquaparc from Montreux either drive or take the boats.

The direct boats to Yvoire leave Lausanne Ouchy at 10.50, 14.05 and 18.45 (daily from June 16th until Sept 1st; only on weekends and only 2 boats from April 14th until June 15th and in September-October).

There are actually 7 daily buses between Evian and St. Gingolph (operated by SAT).

Montreux - Le Bouveret by public transport (in summer): there are 21 daily connections, 5 of them by boat.
Some people like tor reach Le Bouveret on welll signmarked hiking trails through the lakeside woodlands from Villeneuve Trolleybus station (about 3 miles).

In my experience the SAT buses do not run at particularly convenient times...and there are long intervals between them. I would not tell someone that a bus is a viable option between Evian and St Gingolph.

Montreux to le Bouveret means making a significant detour via St Maurice, then change of trains.

If want to walk Villeneuve to le Bouveret fine. It will take 90 mns and part of the walk is via a nature reserve - which is a marsh on the edge of the lake.

I think when giving advice to people who are here for probably the first time and who have not too much time to spare one has to be practical...which is what I try to be!

Berne in English I think. (I usually spell it Bern)

But what if your assumptions about why posters come here are wrong? I know that when I planned my trip to Switzerland, some people gave absolutely useless advice because they made false assumptions about my interests, preferences, and need for information. I'm glad that at least a few people took me at my word and responded without presuming what I would / would not find helpful.

Fair enough - but I am afraid I am a logical person and that is why I give the advice that I do. I also know the "French side" of the lake like the back of my hand!! It is, after all, in my "neighbourhood".

....so you know that there are 6 possibilities to reach the Chablais Valaisan from the Chablais Vaudois, the direct boat from Montreux to Bouveret being the best solution (and the others alternatives for people who missed the last boat or who plan to visit another place along the itinerary).
Buses in Haute Savoie: I just mentioned that the Thonon - St. Gingolph line exists. it's up to the OP to check the timetable and to decide whether it makes sense for him to use a SAT bus.

The correct English term for Bern would be Berne, like Basle for Basel, Lyons for Lyon, Leghorn for Livorno, Mayence for Mainz, Spires for Speyer, Treves for Trier, Brunswick for Braunschweig, Trent for Trento.........
But these names are less and less used

English terms I use and everyone American I think are Bern and Basel.

" English terms I use and everyone American I think are Bern and Basel"

There is nothing wrong with it. If you consult a timetable, you will have to use the local names anyway.
BTW: even the tourist office of Basle uses the term "Basel" https://www.basel.com/en/Sehenswuerd...swuerdigkeiten

Basel is the German spelling so the Tourist Office is just using the name they call their own town! In French it is B le. In English Basle but I prefer Basel...less confusion! Bern - is the German (so "home grown" version). Berne is French and English - and so it goes!! Aachen is Aix-la-Chapelle, Reims in English is Reims. Now - where are Sitten and Siders ??? (Clue: both German speliings)

You may be speaking of British English but I assure you Americans use Basel, Bern - Aachen - Reims.

This American map has the spellings:

https://geology.com/world/germany-satellite-image.shtml

No one here has ever heard of Aix-la-Chapelle.

If you haven't heard of Aix la Chapelle you don't know much about European history - what a shame! For the rest I am glad Americans are so enlightened!! Not being British myself (I am Swiss) I have a hard time with spellings like Lyons and Reims. Even harder time with the prononciation of those... And it really helps to know the name of the town in the local language. Try to find a train leaving Milano Centrale headed for Genève - you won't. You need to look for Ginebra!!

I've heard of Aix-la-Chapelle because I know some French and history but Aachen is the word in American English.

Many decades ago, I read in the "Indianapolis Star":
"all Swiss cities have names in 3 languages; so Lucerne is called Lausanne in French and Lugano in Italian".

The truth is that many Swiss cantonal capitals have at least German and French names, some of them Italian and Rumantsch one's too, like
Geneve/Genf/Ginevra/Genevra
Fribourg/Freiburg/Friborgo/Friburg
Solothurn/Soleure/Soletta
Luzern/Lucerne/Lucerna
Basel/B le/Basilea
Schaffhausen/Schaffhouse/Sciaffusa
Zuerich/Zurich/Zurigo/Turitg
Sankt Gallen/Saint Gall/San Gallo/Son Gagl
Chur/Cuera/Coira/Coire
Bellinzona/Bellenz/Bellinzone
Zug/Zoug/Zugo
Glarus/Glaris/Glarona/Glaruna
Sion/Sitten
Neuchatel/Neuenburg
Schwyz/Svitto/Sviz
Delemont/Delsberg

In order to answer (and complete) the questions of post 35, we get (from West to East):
Conthey/Gundis (Sion airport)
Sion/Sitten
Grimisuat/Grimseln
Bramois/Braemis
Uvrier/Ufryn
St-Leonard/St. Leonhard
Granges-Lens/Gradetsch-Leis
Corin/Gurin
Sierre/Siders
Miege/Mengis
Salgesch/Salquenen
Varu/Varone
Leuk/Loeche
Susten/La Souste
Turtmann/Tourtemagne
Raron/Rarogne
Visp/Viege
Brig/Brigue/Briga
Simplon Dorf/Sempione Paese
Gaby/Gstein
Gondo/Ruden
Varzo/Tafeders
Domodossola/Thum

Well done! A good piece of research...but you missed what to me is the most important one:
Martigny / Martinach

Happens to be my home town.

Much of this "double naming" for the Valais is explained by the fact that the "alémaniques" - German speakers - controlled much of what is called in French the Bas Valais or the Lower Valais until relatively recently. the "Romands" - French speakers - have been "pushing" them back for centuries now and the linguistic border today lies between Sierre and Salquenon.