Two week trip through Europe
 

Hello all, let me start off by saying this will be my first trip outside Canada and I will be 'flying' solo so to speak. I've been doing lots of reading up on these and other sites/boards etc. This is my first crack at a barebones travel itinerary. Let me begin by saying I will not speaking about 'I want to see three countries in two weeks'' as I realize that is impossible (but we all have ambition to bite off a bit more that we can chew the first time we start planning don't we? lol.) Instead, I have picked cities I most would like to see. I understand I won't be able to see everything, nor am I trying to. I have decided that this trip is about me and what I would like to experience. It might not be anyone else's perfect trip or way to travel (I wish I had the money and time to visit places from top to bottom) but I have tried to come up with a route that would give me a taste of many different things. I would love any comment as to how I can improve it, if I have missed something or if it's too tight a schedule in some spots.

My two weeks don't include travel time so on
DAY 1
Arrive in Rome ( 3 days in Rome)
Vatican City, The Colosseum and the active volcano are at the top of my list. I'm researching other spots near here (suggestions?) these are just the ones that stood out and two of these I've simply 'always wanted to see'..

half day of travel

Venice (1.5 days): I've heard it's 'not that great' or that it's expensive, but again I have always wanted to see Venice. If I don't I would regret it. At the same time, I just want to sightsee and since it's expensive I've read, not take up too much time here.

1 day travel time

Switzerland 2.5 days
Allow me to explain that I would really like to simply see the Alps. I would love to go to 'the top of Europe' and see most of it by train if possible. This is sort of a detour for me.

1 day of travel

Barcelona 3 days Again, I really would like to see Barcelona, unfortunately it does eat up some more travel time, this can't be help... but again, it's a trade off between a long journey but to get to someplace I really want to see.

1 day of travel

Madrid 2 days.
Madrid return flight home.

Any thoughts?

I mean, my two weeks do include travel time, but not the flight over or flight back.

I'm not aware of any active volcano in or around Rome...

I think it would be well worth your time to check out a few
guidebooks rather than depending on folk's personal opinions
(Venice 'not that great' for example).

oK - let's start at the top:

Vatican City, The Colosseum and the active volcano are at the top of my list.

The active volcano? in Rome? i was there about a month ago and i must have missed it! i think you are talking about mount Etna which is on the island of Sicily, approx 500kms from Rome. a VERY long day trip. [that's a joke!].

otherwise, your plans are quite reasonable. A day based around the colosseum [you get the forum and the palatine hill on the same ticket] a day seeing the vatican museum and st. peter's, and evenings and any other free time wandering around the "centro storico" [historical centre] would be fine.

Venice (1.5 days): I've heard it's 'not that great' or that it's expensive, but again I have always wanted to see Venice.

it is great, is it expensive, and it's wonderful. i assume you're going to get there by train from Rome. my only comment is that a day and a half is barely long enough even with your modest ambitions.

Switzerland 2.5 days
Allow me to explain that I would really like to simply see the Alps

i would head for the Bernese alps and see the Junfraujoch - about as high up as you can get on a train in europe, and perfectly possible in the time you've got so long as the weather cooperates.

Barcelona 3 days

fine -except you don't say how you're going to get there from Switzerland. plenty to do and see in the time you've got - in fact you may feel that it's not long enough.

Madrid - 2 days.

the only place that you've not said why you are going there. If it's only to fly home, I suggest borrowing at least one day to give to Venice or Rome - both could do with longer.

have a great trip!

Volcano in Rome? I wonder how I've managed to miss it in about half a dozen trips???

Venice "not that great"??? Well, I think it's one of the wonders of the world and would allot a whole lot more than 1.5 days to it. I'd much rather be there than Madrid!

Switzerland followed by Spain? I'd never plan anything like that, but that's not to say it's unreasonable. How do you plan to get to Barcelona from Switzerland?

As a general comment, I think you're a bit too much "all over the map" and not allotting enough time in places (like Rome, Venice).

Thank you all for the great replies. I apologize, in my planning zeal two different places became one. I was talking about Mount Vesuvius but that is in Naples, not in Rome. As my schedule is already pretty tight I doubt I have time to keep it on my list (Although I am trying to get two or three more days for my trip which would really help me add some time in certain spots (Venice and Rome).

@annhig Yes, Madrid is more of to catch my flight, so perhaps I should put that day someplace else... (I also figured it would act as a bit of a 'pad' in case I'm running behind schedule.

I know the trip from Switzerland to Spain is unorthodox, I've been looking at getting the Global Pass from Eurorail since I will be taking the train during my entire 15 days or so in Europe and that would allow me to leave Switzerland and make my way down to Barcelona through the south of France. I'll probably stop at a station in between and wander around for an hour so just to stretch my legs (the route would burn up about 18 to 20 hours hopefully I can get some sleep too on the train... we'll see).

I'd like to fit in Barcelona but I might have to just let it go, it is quite out of my way I do see that... Unless I can find a cheap flight out there from Switzerland... I'm new to all this lol.

edit: Eurail

Do NOT do that until you have thoroughly researched the cost compared to budget point-to-point tickets. Start by reading this:

http://www.seat61.com/Europe-train-t...m#.UVCVs1dv7Kc

@ StCirq yes that comment surprised me too and I was getting ready to be disappointed, glad to hear my dream spot should be as great as I had hoped. I will be trimming time out of Madrid for sure and adding a half a day to a day in Venice. I was thinking of substituting Florence or Cinque terre for Venice since I had heard 'it wasn't that great' but now I don't think I will lol.

Hi K,

> I've heard it's 'not that great' or that it's expensive,...<

You have been misinformed. It is that great and it is not that expensive.

I think that you should spend one more night there.

I also suggest that you are spending too much time on trains and too little time actually visiting.

I would make this trip a visit to Venice, Florence and Rome and save Spain and Germany for other times.

Ciao

((I())

I'm seriously considering, even though I would love to see Spain saving Spain for another trip. I could do Spain next time or smt like that. If I do this, I could concentrate more on spending more time exploring Italy and allow more time in case of bad weather conditions in Switzerland. Also from Switzerland I seem to only be 5 hours or so from Paris, so I cold bum around there for my last day until it's time for my flight home. A taste for next time... That would be option B.

I would leave Spain for another visit. Also, explore open jaw ticket (flying into one city and home from another) to avoid backtracking. It shouldn't cost much, if anything more. We flew Air Canada Toronto Frankfurt Venice and came home from Paris.

I'm seriously considering, even though I would love to see Spain saving Spain for another trip. I could do Spain next time or smt like that. If I do this, I could concentrate more on spending more time exploring Italy and allow more time in case of bad weather conditions in Switzerland>>

yes! what a pleasure to come across someone who when they ask for advice does so with an open mind and is prepared to adapt their plans. Rome, Venice, Switzerland and home from Paris would be a nicely paced and varied trip.

"open jaw" [often called multi-city on airline websites] into Rome and out of Paris would give you plenty of scope, and shouldn't be much more than a return ticket to either city. [if it is, you've pressed the wrong button!]

Hi all, thanks for the responses. Rest assured I am taking everything into consideration since I'm new to this and am trying to get a 'feel' for it. I want my trip to be brisk paced, but not too rushed to see anything. I've decided to cut out Paris. It was too greedy of me and Paris I figured is a trip I can do at any age over a long weekend... it doesn't fit in with this more 'adventurist' itinerary. I want a bit of everything. With that in mind, here is my new revised list.. suggestions welcomed:

Land in Rome (Open jaw as suggested)
4 days in Rome (including a day trip to Pompei) I can see the volcano from here. I was debating on doing the hike up the side of it, but decided to cut it since the conditions would have to be good to see anything (a gamble with my tight schedule since I can't come back a second day) and besides I'll still get to see it from Pompei. The other 3 days will be divided as 'annhig' suggested. Get up early on the fourth day and head over to:

Cinq Terre: I found a good two day itinerary. Basically one day relaxing on some sand, doing some swimming etc. Perhaps get a cheap hotel room (something to celebrate the mid-point of my trip, a private shower and a room for a good night's sleep, a taste of the good life lol) Anyone know a cheap hotel nearby? Day 2 would be spent hiking the five towns, hop on the train ride back to where I started from and rest up. Get up early on the third day and head over to Venice.

2 full days in Venice: walking around, see some sights, one museum, gondola ride, see it at night. (I still need to do research) On the second night book a night-train (good idea?) to Switzerland. It seems like the best use of money/time since I could theoretically get some sleep and wake up as I arrive in the small hours of the morning.

3 days in Switzerland. First day exploring a city (any suggestions??) Day 2 would be going to 'the top of Europe' the Junfraujoch, the alps. Third day more exploring of said city (got to do some research) and get a late flight (hopefully from same city) back home.

If you calculate you'll see I have 11 days out of my possible 14. Should I try to add a location (Florence would be on the way, but it seems big to try and tackle) or should I add some days anywhere (possibly +a day in venice?)

Thanks for all the help, and yes I am keeping an open mind and will change accordingly to the 'reality' of it lol. I think new travelers such as myself have a tendency to over simplify distances and places and think we can fit all of Europe lol.

this is the link to the itinerary to Cinq Terre, sound about right? http://www.italylogue.com/planning-a...que-terre.html

For Switzerland I'm thinking (from what I've read) basing myself in Lucerne and then do that day trip.

I see you're reconsidering Spain. The original trip posted involves a lot of moving around and is too much travel in 2 weeks.

I would like to comment on your Venice portion:

<< Venice (1.5 days): I've heard it's 'not that great' or that it's expensive, but again I have always wanted to see Venice. If I don't I would regret it. At the same time, I just want to sightsee and since it's expensive I've read, not take up too much time here. >>

I only know 1 person who went to Venice and did not like it and she's a malcontent. She's a neighbor, not a friend.

Venice is one of the most magical places you'll ever visit in Europe.

It's tranquil since there is no car traffic. The architecture is wonderful. Hopping on and off the vaporetti, especially an evening cruise on the grand canal is a great way to see the buildings along the water that you can't see from the land.

So many people say that Venice is expensive but I don't find it any more expensive than other major city. You can find hotels in all prices ranges and if you avoid the San Marco to Rialto area there are moderately priced restaurants. You can listen to the dueling bands in San Marco square for free if you don't sit down.

I would add at least an extra day to Venice so you can explore some of the sights and islands, particularly Burano and Torcello which are not near to Venice. See the Ca d'Oro and Miracoli church, get lost in the alleyways. If you see something you want to buy, do it then while you see it as you probably won't find your way back to the shop. I still regret the red straw purse I didn't buy and could never find the shop again.

<< On the second night book a night-train (good idea?) to Switzerland >>

Very Bad Idea!!! Please look before you leap on this one.

I would not book a night train to Switzerland as it's so close to Venice that there probably won't be a traditional night train. You could wind up sitting in some train station in the middle of the night.

I checked Venice to Lucerne. The night trains take twice as long as day trains and you won't get any sleep as there are 3 to 4 transfers. The train with only 2 transfers has you sitting in some town for 5 hours.

Thanks, I will not being taking the night train. I can get up early and get the first train to Lucerne instead. It will cost me part of the day but at least I'll be in Lucerne for the second part of the day and night.

I would like to squeeze Florence in my travel plans, but I feel it will be too much. Also, I've read about all the lineups. Since my trip is relatively short I want to squash as much time in lineups as possible (I'll be loosing already enough time in Rome due to this and I feel like seeing museums in Florence... all the art, paintings, sculptures on my trip will just end up blending together anyways.

<< (Florence would be on the way, but it seems big to try and tackle) >>

Florence has lots of sights but it's a small city. You can book some of the museums on the internet. You should try for 2 days here. Find a hotel between the train station and the cathedral but close to the cathedral and you will be able to walk everyplace. The only place I ever used the bus for was Fiesole, outside Florence.

Perhaps things will blend together but that's what second trips are for! LOL It's very different from Rome; much more compact and smaller and again different from Venice so I think it will stand out in your memories. Write things down as you go along to help you remember when you return home, buy postcards, save your beautiful admission tickets and any time I forget things about my trips I look at my photos and the memories return.

You will not remember everything about your trip whether or not you include Florence. If you want to see it then go.

You can't see every museum so choose a few based on your interests. I love frescoes and sculpture so I would visit the Brancacci Chapel and the Bargello Museum. You choose your own special places.

Karl don't let them beat you down. One of our trips was Greece, Turkey, Cairo and Barcelona. 18 days. If I had posted that here I would have been run out of the joint. It was a great trip.

I know the trip from Switzerland to Spain is unorthodox, I've been looking at getting the Global Pass from Eurorail since I will be taking the train during my entire 15 days or so in Europe and that would allow me to leave Switzerland and make my way down to Barcelona through the south of France.>

for lots of good stuff on European trains and passes and alternatives to them check out these IMO superb sites - www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com.

Yes, I think I will add two days for Florence, pick one museum there and then another few sites. It's true, if I'm ever back there I can take more time plus I'll know what cities I most enjoyed. Everyone has their own favorites and cities they'd like to spend more time in. Some people seem 'bored' with Venice after two or three days, others could live there.. it all depends on the traveller. Plus, it just makes sense to add a stop there since it's on my travel route from Cinq Terre to Venice (leaving me with less of a big train trip)

4 days Rome (1 day trip to Pompeii
2 days Cinq Terre
2.5 days Florence
2.5 days Venice
3 days Switzerland

(all including travel times (which is why the .5 days)
A brisk pace, but if I pick and choose accordingly, book most of the sites I most want to see in advance to skip the lineups and only try to see a few sites per city should be a good trip to get a feel for Italy and Switzerland as a desert.

If I want I can always book a second trip back to Rome or Florence for more exploring if I fall in love, but if I'm never able to be back there, I'll have seen my top choices.

I would check pricing out the individual train tickets before getting a pass.Sometimes if you book in advance the rates are really good. Or see if there is an Italy only pass and buy the short portion for Switzerland separately.
The walled town of Lucca is lovely if you wanted a more low key place to visit instead of a busy city like Florence and it is close to Cinque Terre. You might want to consider staying somewhere on a rail line like lucca as a base and do day trips from it instead of hopping around with luggage from one to the other. We stayed with friends in a small village and did day trips to Portovenere, cinque Terre and Lucca.
Where you choose to go will depend on your personal interests. For me , I like a balance between busy and relaxing, big cities and small towns.
Your trip as laid out looks doable.
I didn't read when you were planning to go and where you were planning to fly in and out of- and which airlines.

I'm planning on going in september or october. Flying in from Canada to Rome (haven't booked the tickets yet so airlines are still 'up in the air' (har har) and flying out from Switzerland (I'd be near Lucerne (haven't checked out the airport closest to there yet)

I'm glad people seem to think the trip is doable. I won't have much luggage, I'm doing a backpacking trip, so a single backpack and staying in hostels. I think I'll have a great unrushed and balanced trip by picking my top 5 things to do and see in the cities I'm interested in. The only way I would get in trouble is if I tried to fit in by top 20 things or something like that, I just have to priorities and book in advance to save time and I'm getting confident that I'll be fine. Also, I'll be getting a taste of what traveling is really like and get more of a feel for the kind of places and things I like to do and see so I can better plan future trips. We all have our own styles of travel it seems and it depends on your goal. Some people say you can't 'experience' a city in two days... I'm aware that you can see everything a city has to offer in a few days but it's like in any city, if you plan right and priorities you can usually see the major sights you wanted to see and have some time to stumble upon some things you didn't even know existed (and that's what makes your trip personalized. To 'experience' a city I'd have to live there for several weeks and even then!

I've started looking at what to book and costs and all that, and yeah, taking the train from Venice to Lucerne seems like not the best way to go.. With a quick search I found a cheap flight from Venice to Zurick for 70 bucks and I'd be there all and all within 2 hrs! That's half the price of the train tickets (because of all the transfers) Seems like the way to go.

Also after tallying up all the separate train tickets for my journey through Italy it still comes it at
quite cheaper than buying the one country pass. So again, I'll go with that. If I buy my tickets online in advance is that the same thing as make a reservation, or do I have to do that separately by phone or once I'm in the city?

A quick budget guestimate has me around the 3000 dollar mark as a budget for my trip (100 bucks a day(food, hostels and sites)+ train tickets, sounds+open jaw ticket which I found online (haven't booked yet though) at 1100 bucks. (Montreal-Rome // Zurick-Montréal.

Probably end up at a bit over 3 grand canadian... seems reasonable.

<< I found a cheap flight from Venice to Zurick for 70 bucks and I'd be there all and all within 2 hrs! That's half the price of the train tickets (because of all the transfers) >>

I don't think you can get from Venice to Zurich in 2 hours. It will take you an hour to get from Venice to the airport and you have to be there at least an hour ahead of the flight so that is already 2 hours and then the flight time and getting from the Zurich airport into Zurich. If the flight is 2 hours your time will be about 5 hours.

I'm not telling you not to fly but you have to be realistic about the amount of time it will take.

I don't understand what you mean about the price of the train tickets because of all the transfers. Train tickets with transfers don't cost more than tickets with no transfers. What do you mean by this.

<< so a single backpack >>

I suggest a small roller bag rather than a backpack.

Just a note about Cinque Terre in late September or October - probably not great beach weather. And you will not find sandy beaches, mostly rocks or pebbles except for a narrow stretch of sandy beach in Monterossa. But CT is still worth two days.

Florence is one of the easiest cities in Europe. Everything is within walking distance around the historic center and it is very easy to navigate. You can cover a lot in 2.5 days.

I think your trip is shaping up well.

''adrienne''
ah I didn't realize it would take that much time to get to the airport. Still the train would take me 10 hours to get to Switzerland and cost more than that flight... the again I'd have to train it from the city to the airport and vice versa once I land... it would end up costing me more to fly.. and that's if there's no delays. I'll keep looking.

''mamcalice'' thanks for the heads-up. I will just relax then and put my feet in the water if it's too cold to swim (or rent a Kayak or something, explore the area, maybe do the first hiking trail since it's quite easy) for my first day (technically half day by the time I get there from Rome) and night there. The second day I'll hike the rest of the towns etc then leave for florence the next morning or that evening.

ah I didn't realize it would take that much time to get to the airport. Still the train would take me 10 hours to get to Switzerland and cost more than that flight...>>

Karl, good point about the time the train takes, but it does have some advantages over the plane - seeing the countryside, chatting to other passengers, being able to move about. IMO train travel is more part of the journey than a flight is.

Yes, apparently the views from Milan to Luzern can be quite spectacular and since the main attraction for me are the alps I shouldn't think of this as time wasted but as touring the scenery. I would still get there around 3pm, which would give me the rest of the afternoon/evening to tour a bit of the area.

The next day I would like to do a day trip to Jungfraujoch (top of Europe) -more trains!- .. so should I base myself in Lucerne? The third day would be spend exploring more of the area until I have to get to the airport in the evening for the plane ride home.

The next day I would like to do a day trip to Jungfraujoch (top of Europe) -more trains!- .. so should I base myself in Lucerne?>>

not really. the best place to start a journey to the Jungfraujoch is somewhere in the Berner Oberland - Wengen or Grindelwald, or Interlaken at a pinch. Luzern is too far away to make it a reasonable day trip.

Would getting a swiss pass be a good deal? It seems to be since it would take care of my train travelling fees as soon as I cross the border from Italy (and the trains seem more expensive here) plus reduces at 50% the cost of most sightseeing places (like Jungfraujoch - ice palace etc.

I should add that might flight home will be in Zurick so perhaps I should base myself in Bern? the first day there after the long but hopefully beautiful train ride I will be able to visit the area probably only during the late-afternoon to evening. The next day I do my day trip to Jungfraujoch, the rest of the evening would be again at Bern (shame I'll be only seeing it late in the day for these two days...). Then the final day would be morning to noon in Bern and then off to Zurich for the afternoon to evening (depending on what time my flight leaves.

I'll be doing some research on Bern and Zurich to see where I'd like to spend the most time in.

Mt. Vesuvius.

I don't know how tight a Pompeii daytrip timeline is for this but seeing as how you really want to see a volcano give it a search.

If going in the summer I believe Pompeii is open to ~7PM?

The Rome to Pompeii journey is 2:05-2:32hr.

And somewhere very nearby the Circumvesuviana train station and Pompeii entrance is the bus stop for the bus to atop Mt. Vesuvius and then a ~25min? walk.

I don't know how long the whole roundtrip would take but it should get you back for a good few hours in Pompeii.

Google; bus "pompeii to vesuvius" and maybe you can find schedules and locations and such.

The bus stop near Pompeii's entrance is called the 'Porta Marina'.

i don't think I'll have time to do both, but I will plan it as a 'plan B' sort of thing... if the weather seems good at the top and whatnot. If the weather isn't good I wouldn't be seeing much.

The train to Wengen is 8 hours; to Bern 6.5 hours.

Where are you going in Switzerland that takes 10 hours for the train?

8 hours and 6.5 hours from Milan or from Venice?

you can just as easily get a train from Venice to interlaken [a good base from which to do a day trip to the Junfraujoch] which will take about 7 1/2 hours.

depending on when you plan to get to Interlaken, you could go onto Wengen in the same day, which would get you closer still, but give you a longer trip when you move on.

trains from Interlaken to Zurich airport take between 2 1/2 to 3 hours.

personally i would go to Wengen, spend as much of the rest of my holiday there as i could, and aim to do the jungfraujoch on a clear day.

Well I'm no expert and can't really help with much but whoever said Venice is "not so great" is outta their minds! It's THE most amazing city. I've only been there twice and spent 4-5 days each time which was barely a taste of it. As far as expensive, compared to Switzerland it's a bargain (lol!).

<< 8 hours and 6.5 hours from Milan or from Venice? >>

I thought you were going to Switzerland from Venice?

The times I gave are from Venice SL. Wengen is 4.5 hours from Milan. Bern is 3 to 2.5 hours from Milan. I just checked again but you can check as well.