The authoritative source for finding out what remains of the pre-Reformation buildings on monastic property seized by Henry or his chums (which amount to about a quarter of England's land mass) is the Pevsner series 'The Buildings of England', now published by Yale University Press.

Many volumes (or rather, images of earlier editions) are available through Google book search: generally, guides (both human and printed) at sites themselves are useless on the subject, and heavy googling, or getting the relevant volume from a cheapo bookshop or your nearest major library, is the only way of getting an answer.

Syon House is visited mainly these days for its Robert Adam interiors. Since a huge proportion of England's great estates came into being from seizure of monastic property, and almost all the new owners built a residence that worked for a family, rather than a working community of celibates, there's almost zero interest in a few bits of rubble that might or might not be the relics of the monastic lavatories at any of the estates.

Simon Jenkins' 1000 Great Houses implies there's nothing Tudor or pre-Tudor at Syon - but consulting Pevsner might tell you different.

The Tudors really weren't that interested in building things, and even if they were their unsentimental successors tended to knock them down. Less than a dozen of England's 8,000 surviving pre-1600 churches, for example, were built after 1485 - though all 8,000 are stuffed with things the Tudors added, and all (except Fairford in Gloucestershire) are scarred with the devastation Tudor Prod fundamentalism wreaked in them.

What the Tudors put their energy into was soft stuff: studying, writing, making money, inventing modern English, social mobility, new uses for exotic veg (like potatoes and tobacco) political accountability, rewriting history and colonising America. I'd argue the most important Tudor was William Tyndale, whose translation of the bible was the basis for the Authorised Version (the committees credited with that version did lttle more than tweak Tyndale), which is really the basis for the language we're using now.

You'll find traces of him at Little Sodbury Manor, a bit east of Chipping Sodbury in Gloucerstershire: its 15th century Great Hall survives, but practicaly nothing else of the era. Tyndale, by repute, began his translation wehen working there as chaplain to Sir John Walsh in 1521.

He'd be turning in his grave if he knew how he's best remembered now: the Islington school named after him became a byword for awful teaching in the late 20th century - after earlier providing the children who sang "We don't want no education" on that Pink Floyd album. Appalling but an accurate reflection of its pupils' attitude: the overachieving parents of neighbouring Canonbury all sent their little ones to ancient establishments for which Tudor monarchs had written statutes ensuring 500 years of educational hothousing. The William Tyndale School's anti-education policy destroyed the lifechances only of less privileged Islingtonians.

Another thing the Henry Tudors were good at was re-badging their predecessors' projects to put their stamp on them and at the same time imply some continuity/legitimacy as a result. As an example, King's College Chapel in Cambridge, which, though started in the 1440s, has plenty of Tudor symbols in the finished stonework and windows.

What a simply fabulous thread. I wish I had stumbled across it before my recent trip to London. Well, there is always the NEXT trip. :)

Hi yk - you just hit on my specialist subject:

<<Middle Temple Hall in London (if only I could figure out how to get inside for a peek!)>>

if you look at the website for middle temple hall:

http://www.middletemple.org.uk/banqu...h-in-hall.html

you will see that they cater for people just like you! I can't see any reson why they wouldn't let you have lunch as a guest, particularly if you give them plenty of notice.

alternatively, dress smartly [dark suit of some sort], look as if you know what you're doing, and copy everyone else! my recollection [I haven't done this for over 10 years] is that they give you a chit when you order or collect your starter, and then just add to it as you take hot dishes or cavery.

pay on the way out. [cash probably a good idea!]

the gardens are also well worth a look - inner temple's are the best, IMHO. the gates are open from about 12 noon til 2pm - just about enough time for a stroll after lunch. so if they won't let you into Hall [and you could try Inner temple too] go and get some sarnies from Temple Gate [opposite the Devereux pub] or Pret, and eat them in the gardens.

Have fun!

regards, ann

Hi ann-

Thanks for the tip. I'll try emailing them next time before my trip. Unfortunately, I travel for leisure only, and the idea of dressing "smartly" is not practical as I tend to walk miles and miles daily. Of course, if I stay at a hotel nearby, I can always go back and change.

I spent a little time at the Inner Temple Garden on my last trip. It was a grey and light drizzle day in November, so it wasn't exactly garden weather.

hi yk,

it doesn't have to be haute couture - after all, they let me in! black trousers and a shirt and jacket would be fine. shame you didn't see the gardens at their best - they are lovely in summer.

good luck with the e-mail - when are you going?

regards, ann

<i>when are you going?</i>

Sigh... don't know. I hope soon but no plans as of yet.

Don't forget the Essex and Cambridge links to the Tudors and Stuarts. Thaxted and Saffron Walden are about half way to Cambridge from London which is less than 60 miles.
You have to do a bit of spade work to see the subtle flavour of 500 years ago but it's rewarding to find it weathering in everyday high street surroundings. Here are a few snapshots: the mostly medieval street plan to Saffron Walden includes the tiny lanes where people sold goods out of homes (rather than shops) and you can see original oak shop window frames on about a dozen or more buildings (small and to the sides of buildings so look for ends of terraces such as the pair facing each other in the lane between King Street and George Street. The premises immediately to the north of the (very average) Saffron Hotel was where Henry 8th had his saddles made, while the antique shop in Church Street is where 100 years later Lord Halifax planned the destruction of Charles 1's army. Several rows of Tudor (and earlier) homes remain around the medieval church, many so tiny they have door headers at less than 5ft (get your photo of the pygmies of England!). The part Jacobean Audley End in Saffron Walden began as a gift to Thomas Audley from Henry 8th for his services as lord chancellor and later went back into royal ownership under Charles 2nd - its Elizabethan stable block is so big some mistake it for the house. Thaxted has a Tudor recorder's house, now a gift shop, has an ornate fireplace where Philip of Spain once posed for a portrait with a teenage Elizabeth (now in Madrid's Prado) and Thaxted has a unique charter owing it all to him. Elizabeth 1 would later return regularly to see her Earl of Essex in the picture postcard Hanham Hall just behind. Thaxted has a handful of extraordinary oak-framed 14th and 15th century buildings, including one house which is claimed to house highwayman Dick Turpin. (All we know for sure is that he was very active on the Cambridge road running past Audley End a couple of miles west.)

Interesting show starting tomorrow at Hampton Court

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ory/article.do

Thanks crdtny!

Another Henry VIII exhibition opens at the British Library on April 23:
http://www.bl.uk/henry

2009 marks the 500th anniversary of Henry's ascent to the Crown, hence all these special exhibitions.

The British Library's blockbuster on Henry VIII starts April 23 (more or less the 500th anniversary of his accession) and runs to Sept 6. £9 for adults, but free for Friends (£25 a year).

Closely connected, apparently, with David Starkey's TV series on him. If it's not come to your country yet, you're in for a treat. Opinionated, lucid, enthusiastic and punctilious in its respect for its sources, it's the perfect antidote to the BBC's <i> The Tudors </i> nonsense. Includes his letters to Anne Boleyn - on loan from, of all places, the Vatican Library.

Probably keeping them for evidence at the Last Judgement.

That wasn't an attempt to trump yk. We were posting at he same time

The official Home Page is here:-
http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPa...FUgTzAoddiuYRw

Bookmarking

There's a special exhibition at Windsor Castle on H8 as well this year.

yk...

There was a fascinating programme on the UK's Channel 4 last night, about Henry VIII's lost palaces...


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/h...s-lost-palaces

There is a catch-up link but I don't know if it will work for you in the US.

It was followed by the second part of a David Starkey series about Henry, the making of a Tyrant...

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/h...nd-of-a-tyrant

I hope you can get to see these, or at least you will know what to look out for when they cross the Atlantic to you, or are available on dvd.

Thank you, julia_t. Unfortunately, it cannot be viewed outside of UK. I do hope we will get to see this on TV, but if not, we'll look for it on DVD.

I'm think you get to see the David Starkey series in America. He's done other stuff on Henry and his Six Wives and I'm sure I've read it's been viewed in the US.

Shame you can't get to see the other programme. It was done by the Time Team people (led by Tony Robinson who was Baldric in BlackAdder all those years ago!). Do you get the Time Team shows, they are all about archaeology.

The one last night was investigating the palaces Henry built that have since disappeared. Hampton Court is heavily featured though Henry did poach it from Wolsey and extend it massively. They discovered the foundations of several towers built around the tilting field and the remnants of a 60m bowling alley. Not much remains of the other palaces such as Beaulieu (not to be confused with Beaulieu Abbey in Hampshire), Nonsuch (very Baroque, comparable with the Palazzo Spada in Rome), and Whitehall - though in the basements below the curent corridors of power are some wonderful rooms with vaulted fan ceilings. And I didn't know that Horseguard's Parade ground was in fact Henry's tilting/jousting field.

Like I said, it was fascinating and I am only sorry you can't view it!

Interesting article in The Telegraph with lots of information

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ar...rys-image.html

I was in London on Monday and stayed with a friend who lives opposite Brompton cemetery. Always seem to find strange facts about the cemetery. He was in the theatre and whilst strolling in the cemetery he came across the grave of Louis Leonowens the son of Anna from King and I fame.

My visit to London was to get a wedding band. I first went to Leather Lane where there was a wholesaler of gold etc but could not find the premises. I popped around the corner to Hatton Garden and duly found and bought two rings.

I ventured to one of my favourite Pubs The Mitre Tavern in Ely Court to celebrate my purchase. The Cherry Tree, in the pub, is still in the glass case where it has always been. So nice to notice everything was the same as it was many moons ago when I was a more frequent visitor. St Etheldreds is just nearby.

Back home in Cardiff recovering from excess of alcohol. Not easy to recover after a bender after sixty.