TTT...First Time Traveller to Europe!!
 

Am reposting....

On Oct 6 or 7th, hubby & I are travelling to Vienna. We will have 3 wks. & are hoping to visit some surrounding countries as well, such as Germany, Northern Italy, Switzerland etc. We've decided to rent a car & use a train for point to point travel if need be.??We will be celebrating our 20th anniversary there as well, so are very excited...I will be 52 this month, & he is 60.

My hubby won airfare thru his work (Air Canada) so it's in & out from Vienna. In naming the countries, I realize we can't see them all, it was just a choice we have, tho we definitely want to see abit of Germany.??We enjoy the touristy things to a point such as history, so the odd museum would be good, as well as a walking tour sort of thing, to see the architecture. Would luv to sample some of the foods & drink as well. We enjoy walking a lot, & would also luv to take a train somewhere ... I've never been on a train, can you believe it? lol??We have enjoyed B & B's in Canada, & like to get to know people abit if we can in that way. We are pretty laid back back, nothing specific planned yet, always up for something new & different, off the beaten path if you will. Not much for the operas & such.

Also, we'll be getting an International Driver's License thru our CAA, which we've been to asking about car & train rates.

As for food, we tend to eat fairly healthy, lean meats, lots of veggies & fruits, milk, not much in the way of processed or fried/deepfried foods or fast food.

I would luv any info about reasonable B & B's outside of the main cities, or reasonable hotels. ??Is the food so very different from what we are used to? Any ideas or suggestions as to what to see, eat, where to stay would be appreciated greatly!

Are there any events happening at this time of year that we shouldn't miss???I suppose being a first time traveller, my 'dreams' of seeing many countries is abit silly, but .... that's why I'm here asking the experts!

In Vienna, be sure to stop in at the Hotel Sacher and have a slice of Sacher-Torte <http://tinyurl.com/3c6nzx> "mit Schlag" (with heavy cream on the side) and a cup of coffee. (Sacher-Torte is the most famous cake in the world and deservedly so.)

Hi im,

You don't have to start a new thread.

Every posting to your old one brings it To The Top.

((I))

Hi imcanadian

First of all, congratulations!

Your first post already received several answers, click this link:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=35067697

To find your posts, just click on your name in any thread or at the top left of the screen.

Now to your trip: you are fortunate in that Vienna is a great city, and an excellent introduction to Europe, with beautiful architecture. Another advantage is that 2 low cost airlines, Fly Niki and Skyeurope have bases there and so you can reach many other European destinations quite cheaply.
www.flyniki.com
www.skyeurope.com

Since you will be in Europe in October and mention B&Bs off the beaten track, I would probably fly to Rome, visit the city then rent a car and drive North to Umbria.

Another option would be to fly to Nice and explore the French Riviera, possibly combining it with Paris. There are cheap flights from Vienna to Nice, from Nice to Paris and from Paris back to Vienna.

An easy add-on trip from Vienna by train is Budapest, it'a about a 3 hour ride. No need to purchase tickets in advance in Canada though, service is very frequent, just purchase them a day or two before you leave Vienna in order to secure a reserved seat on the train you want. Schedules and other info at:
http://www.oebb.at/vip8/oebb/en/index.jsp

Do a search on this forum, you will find lots of great tips for all these destinations. Given the season, I wouldn't really recommend going to Germany, unless there is something specific you want to see.

Hope this helps,
Andre

I won't attempt to answer all your questions.

But - I would like to chime on on Sacher Torte. I have had it in at least 6 different fairly upscale places, including the Sacher hotel and have found it in general to be quite dry and not to have much of a chocolaty taste.

We found many excellent pastries in Austria, as well as Germany and Switzerland - of many types - but the Sacher Torte was a major disappointment. (Generally the we found pastries in the small konditerai to be much superior.)

Sacher-torte was one of the biggest culinary disappointments of my life. Overpriced Blech.

A three week trip like that usually takes a lot of planning!!I would plan on staying two nights at each location since moving every day takes lot of time.You first need to buy or check out a few books on the areas Germany, Austia Swit. and Italy (yesterday).I would rent a car in Austria rather than Italy...Then I would spend a couple days without a car in Vienna and take the train to Salzburg and rent a car to tour lower Bavaria and then the eastern Alps and then go down to Italy , over to Milan and then up into Swiz.Get a large map so you can plan it out ...a giant circle from Salzburg.Once you choose the towns you can be more specific about the places to eat....It usually takes a few months to plan a trip so you will have to play it by ear as far as where you will stay and eat but if you don't have a plan you wont get to see all that much..as everything takes longer with the language barrier..it's great you are laid back ...have fun

Hi imcanadian

Congratulations on your win. I went to Vienna some years ago and I loved the Vienna Woods it would be a fantastic drive. Also Schronbrunn Place is a must.

Best wishes for your trip
imAustralian (beargirl)

Morning!

I want to thank all of you so very much for your kindness & patience, as this was my first time on Fodor's (I think you can tell tho, lol).

The suggestions, comments & ideas are great & hubby & I will be enjoying going thru everything.

We really couldn't plan much further ahead, as hubby was given layoff status in the spring, then was going to end up working in Montreal & commuting home, then he wasn't, & now it seems he will be stable at least till his holidays in Oct. are over, so indeed it's a VERY good thing that we are laid back & easy going LOL.

For our next trip, we certainly will plan way ahead, as hopefully he will retire in 2009.

Again, thanks so much everyone...what a wonderful site with such pleasant & helpful people I've discovered!

>Again, thanks so much everyone...what a wonderful site with such pleasant & helpful people I've discovered!<

You are welcome, im.

Hang around a while and see how rude and unpleasant we can be. :)

((I))

LOL...and if you stick around...you'll become an addict!

LOL..Oh, I'm sure I'll hang around for sure, if only to travel vicariously thru others for a while!

Another question...right now in Winnipeg, the temps are cool, but not cold...average of daytime at 20 C (68 F)...would Austria be about the same?

I've read about dressing, & how jeans/tees/runners are not always viewed as favourable...true?

Traffic rules/laws...could I find out by just Googling?

Any ideas for good B & B's in smaller cities/towns in Austria?

Thank you everyone!

Morning, All!

Just starting off again, looking for some info to my last questions. (.right now in Winnipeg, the temps are cool, but not cold...average of daytime at 20 C (68 F)...would Austria be about the same?

I've read about dressing, & how jeans/tees/runners are not always viewed as favourable...true?

Traffic rules/laws...could I find out by just Googling?

Any ideas for good B & B's in smaller cities/towns in Austria?)

Bought a couple of books yesterday on Austria, Vienna, have maps from CAA & a small German phrasebook as well.

Time is going quickly!

Hi im,

These are in French, but they are international.

Road signs are at http://tinyurl.com/zunqg

Road lines are at http://www.code-route.com/panneau_lignes.htm

Do not cross a solid white line.

For example, if you are on a 2-lane road and you see the place you want to go to on your left, you may not cross a solid white line to get to it. Continue to where the line is broken and make your left there. The same holds for pulling off to the shoulder on your right.

Never pass on the right.

Pedestrians have the right-of-way in cross walks. When in doubt, yield.

At a traffic circle, the car in the circle has the RoW. Otherwise, the car on the right has the RoW.

As you approach a roundabout, there will be a sign showing the exits and where they go.

If there are two lanes approaching a roundabout, take the right lane only if you will be taking the first exit.

If you miss your exit, just keep going around until you know which one to take.

You'll get the hang of it very quickly.

((I))

Good Morning Ira, & thanks very much! Should be interesting & fun, no matter what lol

You will love Europe!
Zimmers(bandb's) are everywhere ..just look for the signs and ask..if you stay at a small hotel eat dinner there as it's not like here...the food at hotels is great..
.Your main concern right now is the plan as you must decide what you want to see and your route...If you have no clue, then a good book for Europe novices is the Rick Steves..

His books are not popular with experts (especially here)but good for new people that are planning an impromptu trip.Fodors is better for people of discriminating tastes, larger budget and time.
Use a highlighter and mark the important things to know..I would consider these: Rothenburg (Bavaria),the castles(Neuschwanstein),Venice,Florence,Lake Como,Interlaken,black forest....Let us know how it went...

Thanks Hypatia!

We did invest in a German phrase book, a Fodor's Austria book & a Vienna & the Danube Valley book, along with a few maps.

It's so hard to decide where to go!! lol...We have decided tho, that we will stay outside of Vienna, in a B & B. We're debating a car versus the bus/train tho...what do you prefer?

We've never been before, so maybe it's not a good idea to drive at this time? Just thought that it would be nice for getting off the beaten path, as we do here at home.

Thanks so much!

Jeans and sneakers are OK for daytime touring in Europe. Wear what you would wear for a nice weekend at home in the Fall.

I would suggest staying each place 3-4 nights. I could not stand moving about every other day (the 2 day idea one person suggests above).

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by most of the fresh food in Europe. They really don't do the processed stuff nearly as much as you find in the U.S.

oops, I see you're from Canada... well my comment still stands about food being good in Europe!

One tip as you plan: go to your public library and check out different travel guides for the various locations. Different publishers have differing viewpoints and emphases, so this gives you a way to get an overview. Then you can just buy the one you like most to take along.

I actually photocopy pages and take them in a folder instead of taking the thick books, so that my luggage is lighter.

Evening, All!

I'm so excited to see so many people willing to help us out! We will be carefully be going thru all the postings again & start to get an itinerary going...I hope! lol

Now that the initial excitement about actually going has died down abit, I think we can think more clearly & all of your suggestions are really the reason why, so I thank each of you!

You're welcome!

If I am going far, I like to speed of the train and the fact you can't get lost or sidetracked (once you're on it).Also it's fun to observe the people.

But you have to learn how to purchase tickets,find the tracks via steps, navigate the car classes and find the seats all with luggage.Ive almost missed the train and have gotten on the wrong one.Then you are stuck within walking distance from the train stations and are at the mercy of the schedules and routes.

On the other hand driving doesn't restrict you and you can stop for picnics, fairs and other side trips. However you have tolls,parking problems and detours..It can lead to disagreements.

Obviously if you are going to the mountain top you have to use the trams or trains so it all depends on where you are going. That's why you must plan the trip first and then make you transportation arrangements accordingly

If you are just talking about how to get to Vienna then it's a no brainer...take the train you don't need a car in the city. Rent the car to tour the villages and the countryside.

I'd recommend you rely on the train, rather than deal with driving license, directions, parking, etc.

From Vienna, it's fun to take the train to Melk, to see the amazing abbey there, then you can continue by boat (if it still runs in October) up the Danube through wine country to Krems. Then return to Vienna via the train. You buy a Combi-Pass at the train station for all this, and it's very reasonably priced, about 39EUR apiece. The Pass includes entrance fee to the Melk abbey and train/boat fares.
:)>-

Oh, thanks so much! We have decided to forgo a car this time, & train/bus it, because of the majority of suggestions here.

We will be leaving here for Vienna Oct. 7 & leaving Vienna to come home Oct. 27, so at least we have that part figured out lol.

We plan to stop over in Germany for perhaps 3 or 4 days (we also don't want to travel couple of days).

So I guess we'll be visiting the north of Austria mainly, along with Germany.

I have questions about clothing & such as well, but maybe I should post that on another thread yes?

Imcanadian in three weeks you can see so many beautiful sites that i would suggest you not to stick only to Austria and Germany. (since it's your first time in Europe). Personally i would see Vienna and some villages in Austria and Germany and the last week i would pick another city and spend some days there. (why not Paris? or Prague? With Skyeurope as another poster suggested you can find very good prices for Paris. And Prague is not so far from Vienna by train or car..
But it all depends on your preferences!
(it's just that with so many beautiful european cities it's a pity not to see another one ;-)

Cristine, I agree lol..we have been wondering if we could get Paris in there as well & it sounds as if that would be possible for sure...thankyou!

Hi imcanadian,


Clothing:
The weather will be variable so dress in layers including a warm jacket of some sort that can be folded up small in case you are too warm later in the day and bring a fold-up umbrella. Comfortable shoes are a must... lots of walking and some on cobblestones - I wear a pair of flat but smart looking black ankle height boots for everything from museums to dinner. Jeans are very acceptable in Europe. I don't wear them normally because I don't find them comfortable so I have a little travel uniform: black knit pants, dress v-neck t-shirt in white or pastels, cozy cardigan, nice quality polar fleece and boiled wool jacket for evenings (can buy one of thes e in Austria if you like them - you'll see thousands!) I pack a few pretty silk/cotton/pashmina scarves that I add if I want to dress it up a little or for warmth. I actually use weather.com for checking 10 day temp forecasts and have found it very accurate and helpful when I pack. I am a few years younger than you and not too trendy but like to look nice - esp when getting my cute husband away to celebrate a 20th (we had ours last week in Italy!).

To See,

lots to do and see in Vienna. We enjoyed the Schonbrunn Palace and gardens as well as an evening seeing the Vienna Symphony - beautiful hall and music. There is so much culture in Vienna you will need to read up and decide what appeals to you! Palaces, churches and Art Museums abound. Lots of shopping too if you like that...

We were in Vienna on Easter and rented a car for the day and drove out to Durnstein. It's about an hour, set up high on the Danube, there is an old castle ruin you can climb up for stunning views of the Danube and the wine country. We had Easter dinner in a beautiful Inn there on a terrace overlooking the Danube - sorry can't remember the name. It was beautiful in April and I bet will be in October as well even if the weather is cooler.

There are day cruises on the Danube but we didn't do that so I can't help with that. We did visit Melk on the way back from Durnstein and it was very impressive esp. the library.

We spent 4 days in Vienna and then 3 in Salzburg. We flew because the airfare was a really good deal and the flight quick. You have more time so you may want to take the train. The two cities are very different but you may appreciate that. I found Salzburg city a little touristy (although beautiful) but many people simply love it and if you like shops and cafes there are many.

Again there are lots of beautiful things to see as well as some amazing night views. Personally, I found Vienna a little overwhelming and not as charming as I had expected (don't know why I thought this) and Salzburg was a nice contrast. Plus, I could let my teenagers go out alone there whereas in Vienna I felt they were more prone to pickpockets and such. Also, the area surrounding Salzburg is incredibly beautiful and there is hiking/walking through the scenery. Even if you are not a hiker, the hills may call to you here simply because of the stunning natural beauty. I plan to return there in May just to do some hiking. I have friends around the same age as you and your husband that did a lot of hiking there and loved it. They are not esp. athletic but reasonably fit...

BTW, I was very disappointed in the sacher torte - I am a bit of a dessert fanatic and just felt sooooo let down. However, there are so many incredible pastries in Austria to make up for this. For some reason, we enjoyed them more in Salzburg - maybe because we got over the whole sacher torte thing and moved on to better things!!

I think a side trip to Paris or another city is a great idea. First trip and three weeks I would go against all fodorites advice and go, go, go!!! (not too crazy though;)

I live in Switzerland so if you decide to include that perhaps I can help...

however...imamerican

have fun!!

ImCanadian, if you have three weeks, definitely go to Paris! You could work in some spectacular European cities and countryside in three weeks, making a loop starting and ending in Vienna.

We spent 5 nights in Vienna, and loved it. The Winter Riding School's gorgeous indoor area, with its gorgeous plaster ceiling, is an architectural wonder. We then went to Prague for 3 nights, and then Munich for 4 nights. It was all by train, and very convenient.

You have LOTS of options in three weeks! Lucky you. We recently spent three nights in each of five cities in Italy, and our stay was a bit too short in each place, we thought.

How many nights you prefer to stay in each location?

Definitly post more specific questions. Like re: clothing, individual cities, etc. You'll get great advice to help you construct an itinerary and travel options. Better get going with reservations ASAP.

If you go to Prague, check out the Hotel Uhland. It is a beauty. Very reasonably priced, but it is certain to be full if Oktoberfest is still raging,.

P.S. Re: food in Austria and Germany. It's fine, but a lot of it is fried. At least in the mid-range restaurants. Since I love veal schnitzel, it wasn't a problem for me.
:)>-

P.S. Jeez- major typo. I meant Munich, not Prague:
If you go to Munich, check out the Hotel Uhland. It is a beauty.

It's a mansion, converted to a small B&B hotel, in an upscale semi-residential area. Very reasonably priced, but it is certain to be full if Oktoberfest is still raging.
:)>-

Wonderful suggestions & ideas, & thanks so much for the clothing info...hubby is also insisting on taking shorts 'just in case' lol...we are very casual dressers, but do have some dress casual clothes as well.

Tomorrow we shall come to a decision which cities (main) to visit & then we shall take it from there.

I plan to book for Vienna (have several responses already) but am wondering if we would be fine booking other when we get there, such as in Germany or perhaps even Paris, Salzburg or Linz?

We have no choice as to our arrival/departure city (Vienna) but I wonder if perhaps we should head directly to Paris & start from there, working our way back to Vienna?

Just wanting this a bit nearer the top....

Imcanadian after a long flight from the US i woulnd't advise you to take another plane to get to Paris the same day.
Now for your accomodation, if you had a car i could tell that you don't have to book in advance in villages etc. but with train/bus i would book ahead. You don't want to start searching for a hotel with all your luggage do you?
And definitely book ahead in the big cities.
I don't think you will enjoy spending precious time from your vacation in search of a hotel!
Now for shorts.. well your husband can take them but i don't think he'll use them ;-) (of course it depends where you're coming from and the weather you're accustomed. Actually i read many posts from people who think that in Italy or Greece it's never so cold to wear wool coats for example.. but believe me..WE DO!! :-) So it all depends on your levels of 'cold' tolerance!!

imcanadian,

My husband has pretty much retired his shorts since we moved to Zurich... however, as we travel about Europe we have noticed a certain "traveling uniform" for many German-speaking men - short, shorts and sandals with socks on at first we found this look funny since this would have been considered extremely geeky where we come from but lately it just seems normal.

When his teenaged daughters aren't looking, my husband still brings out his khakis from time to time and I'm sure he gets some looks here where apparently they are considered boarding school apparel. We're from CT and khakis there are pretty ubiquitous - he has too many to just get rid of them all...

Another thing we see here but don't remember from the US is men in capris. Personally, I really like this option. Most men look pretty nice in them. My husband is kind of Brooks Bros. and hasn't bought a pair yet, although I keep hinting he should;) One evening in Ticino we amused ourselves at a cafe by counting capris vs. shorts vs long pants on the men that went by. The capris won by a long shot! This was way more fun for me than my husband since it was a good chance to checkout lots of cute men with nice legs;) He did get a nice view of a woman about 6 feet tall in high-heeled cowboy boots, strapless bodice and a skirt that almost covered the essentials and absolutely no undergarments - a few older men at the table next to ours literally had their tongues hanging out of their mouths:)

im -

Congratulations on your win!

Here's another vote against the sacher torte. However, that being said, when I lived in Vienna for 6 months during college (22 years ago) I found that the food in Vienna was wonderful! So many new tastes and as previously mentioned lots of wonderful choices at the many konditerai (bakeries - with a place to sit down and enjoy a treat with cocoa or coffee).

I know that you mentioned you eat fairly healthfully, but beware there are wonderful wursts of all sorts, schnitzels,...YUM!

I also agree with others that you should try to see some other city like Paris, Venice, or Florence. Many years ago when I was there, we travelled exclusively by train and found it quite easy to spend a 3-4 day weekend away in one of many cities. Budapest, Munich, Insbruck, Salzburg...there were so many popular destinations. The new low cost airlines may be even cheaper and easier than the train these days.

While in Vienna, you may want to check and see if the Opera House still sells standing room only tickets before the performances (I believe it was about 80 minutes before). The tickets were very inexpensive and even if we didn't stay for the entire performance, we got to see a performance in the Vienna State Opera house. I believe that these tickets were also sold for the Vienna Volksoper. As I mentioned, my info is very dated, but one of the many experts on this board may be able to give you more current information.

Good Luck! I wish my information were more current ;)

Just noticed on one of your other posts that you said you weren't too interested in operas, etc. - just wanted to do what the people there do.

Actually, the Viennese do go to the opera, etc. on those cheap tickets (steheplatz), but that may not be worth it for you if its outside of your area of interest.

I also remember seeing the play "Cats" while there on a cheap ticket - I just can't remember which venue (and it was in German but even the non-german speakers could follow it).

People watching in the Fussgaengerzone (pedestrian zone) was always a lot of fun. Many good restaurants and konditerai in this area as I recall.

I also remember that something the locals did was to go to the wine gardens (Heurigen)on the outskirts of town (Grinzig was one area accessible by street car/tram) and drink the new wine.

Just thinking about all of this makes me want to find a way to go back again!

Thanks as usual, to everyone who stopped by to offer advice, ideas & suggestions!

From my username, you can tell that I am Canadian, living in Manitoba, the prairie province in the middle of Canada, where we have bitterly cold winters & scorching summers...4 very distinct seasons.

Knowing this, cool/cold weather is not a problem at all for us.

As said earlier, we will be arriving & departing in/from Vienna...no choice there. (Oct.8 to Oct.27, 3 weeks)

We have finally narrowed down where else we'd like to go & as you are experts, I would luv your comments about which order, the length of time in each & how many places ... we really don't want to constantly be moving from city to city, but prefer to spend at least 3 days in each.

I know you will tell us which places merit the longest visits.

Vienna, Munich, Paris... these 3 for sure...anywhere else in Austria?

Thanks so much!

Salzburg, Hallstatt?
Also instead of Munich i would much rather visit Prague...
ahhh.... so many places, so (not) little time :-)
My opinion is that you should spend more days in Vienna and Paris than smaller towns. For example i would stay 4 days in big cities and 2 in villages or towns!

Hi,
As for Austria, we love Salzburg and would allow 2 full days there.

Paul

an expert I am not, but for what it's worth, based on where you said you'd like to go, you might want to arrange your travel something like this:

Oct 8 - travel Canada to Vienna

Oct 9-12 Vienna (that way you don't have to travel immediately after your trans atlantic travel

Oct 13 morning- travel by train Vienna to Salzburg (approx 3 hours)

Oct 13-15 - Salzburg

Oct 15 late afternoon or evening - Travel to Insbruck via train (2-3 hours depending on train)

Oct 16-18 see Insbruck

Oct 18 (evening) travel by train to Munich (approx 2 hours depending on train)

Oct 19 - 21 see Munich

Oct 21 (late afternoon or evening) - travel via discount airline or train to Paris

Oct 22-25 see Paris

Oct 26 - travel to Vienna

Oct 27 - return travel to Canada

I just chose Salzburg and Innsbruck because they are two popular destinations in Austria (you asked for other places in Austria). Obviously your goal would be to travel without any backtracking to optimize your time no matter what final destinations you pick.

Also I believe that I noticed on one of your other posts that you were asking about visiting a concentration camp. Dachau is about a 20 min S-Bahn ride from Munich to Dachau and then there is a train to the memorial site. It was a very moving experience.

One final note, since you are planning this on such short notice, I would recommend that you do your best to pre-book accomodations so that you can make the most of your time visiting versus arrange for a room after arriving in each destination. (That's just my opinion though -others are fine with winging it).

Hope this helps some - I know you only have a few days left to plan.