Trump and our trip to Spain
 

I know this is not the Lounge, but I have hearing about stories about Americans going to Europe and being tormented about Trump. Now we have been to Europe during the Vietnam and George W eras but this is not anger, this is ridicule and disbelief. One guy said an entire bar in Amsterdam broke into laughter when they learned he was an American.

I know our friends and relatives will be consumed by Trump. When we visit they want to discuss US matters in general. So I have prepared some answers in advance:

Sí , Trump es un mono naranja (Yes, Trump is an orange monkey.)

Sí, es una locura pero también lo es el tío José. (Yes, he is crazy but so is Uncle Carlos.)

Por favor, no me culpen , yo sólo vivo en los Estados Unidos . (Please do not blame me, I only live in the United States.)

¿Quieres que cante Oh Canadá?

We were in Italy last month and people at the B&Bs were commenting...they’re aghast. We just agreed and had some scintillating conversations. This was a month before Brexit, so we talked about that, too.

One of our cab drivers in London thought Trump was great and hopes he is elected. We politely asked what he found appealing but decided not to share our opinion in return.

When Bush was in power we often had Americans enter the house and without being promoted said "We did not vote for him!" We were amazed.
Personally would not worry about it. Spain has it's own political and financial problems.

Ribe, I understand that Spain has its own problem, but people want to discuss America with us.

We were in Provence and Venice in early June, before the conventions; no one said a word to us. For which we were grateful. Now Brexit . . .

A Scottish woman I met in Europe this summer said, a week after the Brexit vote, "you Americans better be careful, you don't think it can happen but it can" (she was referring to Trump getting elected). She said people in the UK didn't think Brexit would actually win, that people were just expressing dissatisfaction with the status quo but didn't really want to leave the EU and then look what happened. Americans better not get too complacent thinking that crazy Trump hasn't got a chance.

I'm relieved to know that European politicians are and have been so eminently sensible that the inhabitants of those countries can point fingers.

I know it is hard for some to believe but folks that back Trump do have some legitimate concerns.......you could start by sharing those (if you are able to figure them out :) Then you can re-assure folks that is it is very likely he will not be our next president and sing the praises of Madame Hillary ;)

<i>Trump and our trip to Spain
Posted by: IMDonehere on Aug 14, 16 at 12:30am
I know this is not the Lounge, but I have hearing about stories about Americans going to Europe and being tormented about Trump. Now we have been to Europe during the Vietnam and George W eras but this is not anger, this is ridicule and disbelief. One guy said an entire bar in Amsterdam broke into laughter when they learned he was an American. </i>

This is nothing new, especially for Holland. I lived in Haarlem during the Ford/Carter years. America's "sins" were the top topic in my local cafe every evening. That's the way they are educated, socialism and communism now and forever. One guy in an Amsterdam cafe went berserk when he learned that I am an American, literally stomping around and screaming that I was a CIA agent. Jimmy Carter was held in low regard and was typically called the "Peanut President." Ford was a fuzz and was overlooked by heated discussions of the Vietnam War (then concluded), civil rights, native Americans, and other issues that had nothing to do with Holland.

I also lived in Paris during the Reagan years. That was a different story. The French I met generally held him in good regard, especially after he punched Libya with the bombing of Libya.

My final retort to the Dutch who couldn't restrain themselves was to announce that "The Americans won't be coming over for your next war." The response was utter silence as they reflected on WW2 and the service and sacrifice of the US Army in liberating them from Nazi Hell.

My Dutch friends are in horror that Donald Trump might become President. I suspect that part of the concern over Donald Trump is his approach to NATO. He has said that there will be no more free ride for Europe. They must pay for their own defense with their own cash, and blood when the Russians invade. I agree with Trump on this issue. American taxpayers have done enough for the "Allies."

<< We were in Italy last month and people at the B&Bs were commenting...they’re aghast. >>

Were they Italian? If so, they elected Berlusconi.

Generally, Europeans only care about the foreign policy of other countries, particularly the United States, which is why some 'bad' presidents were appreciated (Nixon comes to mind) and some of the 'good' ones were considered to be of no interest.

Trump has already made some rather alarming foreign policy statements, and the fact that basically only Russia and North Korea have approved of them could be considered a cause for concern. As for what he would do to 'Americans in America' nobody really gives a damn.

I am saying I am Canadian. I remember on a trip when Clinton was in office and we had agreed not to talk politics to anyone but when they would hear our accent they wanted to talk about Monica. Opening line "she sure was smart to keep that blue dress" I have had people say some awful things about us and I just smh. My group this next trip is diverse. Two gay democrat girls supporting Hillary, one Republican and one undecided and me the progressive. We try and not discuss it but pubs always bring out the questions from locals.

I was in the UK over Easter this year and a man stopped both me and my mom in a park when he heard our accents. He wanted to talk US politics and especially Trump and proceeded to tell us how to vote. I kept my mouth shut for the first part of the conversation but finally couldn't take it anymore. I told him I think he should worry first about his politics and how his country votes and quickly made an exit. Brexit followed.

I don't like talking about religion or politics when I travel. I try and keep my mouth shut as much as possible when I am forced into it.

Sorry, but unlike that Brexit vote <B>which is not binding</B> the election here, unless somehow contested/stolen and so forth is pretty much permanent. I suppose you could say people who vote for Trump are also "dissatisfied with the status quo but really didn't want to end up paying higher prices for Chinese goods at Wal-Mart."

I guess you have to see it from a European perspective sometimes, Trump is on the web every day and on the TV every day, normally the comedy channels, but every day it becomes part of their life, so when a real life American comes along...

That the people who support Trump have a some issues is certainly true. What seems to be odd that there is any connection between what the solution is to their issues and what Trump is offering.

Since it has become apparent that many of the people who voted for Brexit do not understand why or indeed what they voted for, don't assume something similar will not happen in the US.

bil: >>I guess you have to see it from a European perspective sometimes, Trump is on the web every day and on the TV every day, normally the comedy channels, but every day it becomes part of their life, so when a real life American comes along...<<

... said Europeans feel compelled to lecture said real-life American about the issue? Please.

I do understand, and have experienced, Europeans' inordinate fascination with American politics. What I don't understand is the European attitude of "I saw it on TV, and so I know a lot about it." In fact, it comes across on this forum occasionally.

No one ever lectured me about US politics while we lived in France.

They asked intelligent questions and were genuinely interested in our responses. Have to say they became friendlier and more animated when they realized we were Obama supporters.

I do understand, and have experienced, Europeans' inordinate fascination with American politics. What I don't understand is the European attitude of "I saw it on TV, and so I know a lot about it." .>>

perhaps they are taking a leaf out of a certain presidential candidate's book, Dukey?

Honestly, in a world where we are all affected by the economic and policies of the main powers, you cannot expect people not to have opinions, particularly as whether we like it or not, the outcome of the US elections has potentially profound implications for the rest of us. What is wrong with asking someone how they intend to vote and why? you don't have to answer.

BTW, IMDonhere, your uncle seemed to change his name, unless Carlos is the english translation of José!

We haven't encountered any ridicule regarding Trump. In fact, no one here in France has brought up American politics with us. It's usually we who bring it up, if it gets brought up at all. And we talk to a lot of people. The worst we've heard so far is "il est fou!" Which of course he is.

The subject of Himself was mentioned to me more than once on my recent UK visit. I suggest, rather than words, cultivating your best eye-roll.

One year I wore a Clinton/Gore button in Spain because I couldn't stand the idea that anyone would think I'd vote for Bush.

When my sister and I were in Garmisch, Germany a few years later, we were sharing a table with two German couples. My sister needled me to ask what these people thought about Bush. The younger couple felt pretty much like we did, but the woman of the older couple didn't directly address our question. Instead she talked about how the Americans sent food and clothing after the war, when they were starving.

I had the same type of experience this June, when a woman began talking to me in the Insurgency museum in Warsaw. I responded that I was an American and didn't speak Polish. She asked if I spoke German, and when I said yes, she told me that after the war, she and her family had to leave Poland because they were German, though she was born in Poland.

She said they were refugees and had only what they could fit in their backpacks, but the Americans sent them big, big packages with food and clothing.

This occurred 70 years ago, but when these people met Americans, this is what they remember.

I agree there is residual good feeling for Americans based on post-WWII decent treatment by the allies.

That adult generation is almost gone and its children with direct memories are closing in on 70.

President Obama's election was a high point for Europeans. I hope it continues past November.

The day of the 08 election, we voted early then flew to Paris. When we landed, there was a large poster congratulating President Obama. Several people we met, when they found out we are Americans, were really eager to talk about the election. I've found they're also eager to talk about our extreme fascination with guns.
Since then, I've often wondered how many Americans are even aware of who the leaders of other countries are.

ann: >>Honestly, in a world where we are all affected by the economic and policies of the main powers, you cannot expect people not to have opinions, <<

Opinions? OK. Ridicule? My response is an unrepentant KMFA.

BTW, IMDonhere, your uncle seemed to change his name, unless Carlos is the english translation of José!

He is transitive gender.

We have a distant cousin who is a member of Opus Dei. And a very old cousin who longs for the days of Franco, but the younger ones are well-informed and much more liberal.

We also have a good friend who is active in Podemos and expect a lot of questions.

<< <i>This occurred 70 years ago, but when these people met Americans, this is what they remember.</i> >>

I fear that this is a big part of the problem. It is quite worrisome if so many people have to reach back 70 years to mention a praiseworthy action by the Americans. In the meantime, there have been Cuba, Chile, Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq and quite a few other 'noteworthy' actions that have not all been met with universal approval.

Just pretend you are Canadian and then they will only ask about Rob. Ford.

<<He is transitive gender.>>

Is he transitional, or is he a verb?

I remember during the Iraq war seeing Americans wearing pins with Bush with a slash through it in Europe to let all know they didn't approve.
We have received emails from Canadian friends, first they were joking and then terrified of a Trump Presidency.

At least Rob Ford is dead.

"just pretend you are Canadian... Rob Ford"

As a Torontonian who did not vote for that buffoon (may he rest in peace) it was the first thing I thought of when the pundits were discounting Trump.

We exoerienced first hand what can happen when a privileged rich guy taps into the discontent with politicians. We were all pretty much shaking our heads at how it happened.

Unless my history lessons were incorrect, it was the Canadians leading the Allies who liberated Holland.

I ran into two Americans today in a piazza in Senigallia, who used to live in our town. They had returned to the US about five years ago, but now told me that they've returned to Italy for good, because of Donald Trump. I thought it was a bit premature, but maybe they just can't stand his being nominated.

Hardly anyone asks me about Donald Trump. If they do, I tell them he's a cross between Berlusconi and Beppe Grillo.

I lived in Canada for many years and still have family there so not totally lying. I remember my first visit to Munich and they were burning an effigy of George Bush in the Marienplatz.
Trump is known worldwide and people have formed an opinion of him. Most don't like him. I just am going to try and stay out of it with my traveling companions and people where we visit. A big eye roll will be good. My two friends from Indiana get on the Pence roll though. They don't like him is an understatement.

Trump was mentioned on our trip to Spain in July, but it was like those people wanted us to know they were up on Current Events. A roll of the eyes or a gesture signalling nut-job dismissed that topic of conversation.