Trip to Scotland and England
 

My dream may be coming true!!! It has always been a dream of mine to go to Scotland and now my husband and I are trying to figure out if we can get there this April 2015! I am beside myself!! With that being said we will have 10 days to see what we want. I was thinking of flying in to Scotland do most of our time there, Edinburgh and the Highlands...what else??? Then driving down into England, or is it cheaper to take the train? I was thinking Bed and Breakfasts and hotels. What should we see? Where should we go? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed but excited at the same time. Thanks for any and all help.

With just 10 days . . . Stick to Scotland. Not really enough time to "do" two countries. In fact 10 days means you'll have to be pretty selective where to go just in Scotland.

2 or 3 days in Edinburgh, maybe a couple of days in Glasgow (or not) and one or two other small regions. There are your 10 days.

What is your image of Scotland, is it the cities of the south, the highlands or the islands (East or West, they are different)?

I'd drop England as you don't have much time, April is very much early spring so the country will be alive with young animals so try to get to one of the island groups (fly up or hire a car) I prefer Orkney for its world class jewelry, archeology and seals on the beach but others prefer the more religious western isles, either way the sea food is to die for. The walking is wonderful and you are before the main midge season so things are pleasant.

I'd also look at Edinburgh/Glasgow and maybe Stirling which can be reached by public transport, though if you want to go and see battle fields (think hillsides with explanatory boards or cafes with explanation dioramas) then you need cars.

This website can help you get around a fair bit http://www.traveline.info/ if you decide to stick on public transport while http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ gives you the basic train system and links through to actual rail companies. See also seat61.com for train explanations.

If you book these early enough flights can be a cheap way to get around http://www.loganair.co.uk/ is the main Scotland airline and given the price of fuel can work out cheaper than long distance car rental. Also, if you decide to hire a car and you decide to go to an Isle check the contract, you may not be allowed to.

I did this trip 18 months ago, for ideas http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-in-orkney.cfm

B&Bs are a great way to go, the more you get out of the cities the more you need access to this sort of accomodation. Booking.com is a good tool, but also try google maps, move the map to the area you want and search for B&B or "hotel" and look at the local deals that you can get often well under the Booking price. The tricks to look out for are
1) does it include breakfast
2) does it include cooked breakfast (often enough to take you through the whole day)
3) is there anywhere nearby to get an evening meal

You can tell I'm having a quiet day :-)

http://www.discover-orkney.co.uk/
http://www.visitscotland.com/

Bilbo, are you saying some car rental companies won't let you take the car on a ferry?

I agree with the previous two posters, with only ten days, stick to Scotland. There is so much to see and do.

Fly into either Glasgow or Edinburgh, which ever is the most convenient. You won't need a car for these as public transport id good and there is a regular train service between the two.

I think you need to do a bit of preliminary research and decide what you want to do and see in Scotland. What are your interests - big cities, shopping, museums, stately homes, runing castles and abbeys, scenery, walking.....

Start off by getting hold of a guide book with lots of pictures. DK Eyewitness is probably the best as it has a lot of excellent pictures, enough information to get you going and reasonable maps. It also covers many of the smaller places ignored by the other guides.You can pick it up cheaply on Amazon.

Use this to start to identify which parts of Scotland you want to see. Don't be too ambitious and try to see/do too much.

We had no problem taking a rental car on a ferry (between Skye and Mallaig). And I haven't heard anyone else complaining about this. Bilbo has a thing about the Orkneys, north of mainland Scotland; you pretty much need to fly there. But there's lots of more accessible Scotland.

I agree, however, that it would be best for you to limit yourself to Scotland. Skip England this trip. Now the question is where in Scotland and what do you want to do and see.

hoping2, yes I found a German couple stranded on Orkney who had rented from an American outfit (Herz??) who not only didn't know where Orkney was but claimed it was not Scotland and had a ferry exclusion clause.

So just check before you rent

"Bilbo has a thing about the Orkneys, north of mainland Scotland; you pretty much need to fly there"

No you don't. North Link Ferries have a service there. Plan to catch the ferry from Aberdeen which is just under three hours drive time from Edinburgh and saves the long drive up to Thurso. Don't worry about the 2300 arrival time at Kirkwall. Accommodation providers are used to this.
http://www.northlinkferries.co.uk/timetables/

"Bilbo has a thing about the Orkneys, north of mainland Scotland; you pretty much need to fly there" yep, 'cause it is nice and the people are mainly viking stock with a proud lack of relgious dogma and a genuine lack of confidence in central government. (my kinda people)

A bit like Ukraine (not THE Ukraine) it is Orkney not OrkneyS. :-)

I've spent the odd bit of time wandering around Scotland and apart from the Midland Belt (Glasgow & Edinburgh) the rest is lovely scenery, nice people and the odd distillery. For me the interesting places are Shetland, Orkney and even Faroe on the east and Harris etc on the west.

Why someone would want to travel across the pond to visit a nice little brewery in say Kilmarnock is beyond me when you can spend the day in land which has historical sites older than the pyramids, farm houses that perch on cliffs that are next to human habitation from 8000BC, walk amongst puffins, photo seals, etc etc.

Possibly a "thing" but there is some logic in visiting things that are not just Big Macs and faux Victorian kilts on the Mile. :-0

Still there are people who seriously travel to look at Loch Ness, which while pretty, is not going to offer you a monster for your Iphone, still I guess you can go photo-stalking big deer or maybe try for trout on some pretty expensive streams.

Northlink Ferries also travel between Scrabster, just outside of Thurso, and Stromness. Travel time is about 1 1/2 hours. Pentland Ferries run between Gills Bay and St. Margaret's Hope across rhe Pentland Firth. Travel time an hour. However, with ten days I really don't think you have time for the Orkneys.

Thank you so much! I will definitely get a book and decide from there what we actually want to see. I am a little sad to think I won't see London while over there but I will take your advice to heart when scheduling plans. Do you think a group tour is the way to go or should we plan our own things to do? I guess a part of me is concerned we will be rushed around in a tour group but worried we will miss something wonderful if we don't do a group tour. Not sure if we will rent a car or not but if we just stay in Scotland maybe we won't. Thank you thank you thank you. I can't say it enough!!!

I haven't been to Scotland so don't have any advice, but I just wanted to say good for you. Have a great trip!

BTW, bilbo is right it is Orkney not Orkneys although I still have trouble with that. ;) Certainly not a major mistake as even on Orkney everyone is pretty used to the Orkneys reference.

Best advice is to spend some time with a map...yes! a map and a guidebook, then come back here after you have a better idea as to where you'd like to go and what things you'd like to see and do. Keep in mind that travel in Scotland is going to be slower than what you may be use to.

Not really interested in Lochness. I want the history. My dad's side of the family came from Scotland and I have always wanted to delve into the history of our family and the beauty of Scotland! I love castles, museums, anything historical that is what I love! My husband likes to relax a little more on vacation. I just want to go and learn and see everything I can!

Ideally I would love to come for a month but with three kids at home 10 days is pushing it! :-/

Okay, posting at the same time. In brief, a car is best, but I have been touring Scotland for several years and mostly without car. If you're not persuaded to rent car then one tour company I can recommend is Rabbies. www.rabbies.com. They offer 1,2, 4 & 5 day tours, small groups and are quite good. The trains will also get you to some great areas. Still, a car will give you the most flexibility.

Clarification. For the past several years I have been touring Scotland mostly by train. Prior to that, always rented a car. Age and solo traveling is what has made me switch transportation options.;)

Where is your family from in Scotland? Once we know that we can help you out w/ a plan.

No, you don't want a tour . . . However Rabbies.com does offer really good small group tours if you do decide to go that way.

My maiden name is Guthrie.

as Janisj says

I'm not really sure what part they come from though.

http://www.guthriecastle.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Guthrie
http://www.clanguthrie.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_clan

any help?

Thank you bilboburgler. I have contacted Guthrie castle :) Now I will check your other links.

Ok so I have a few ideas. Let me know if you think this is crazy. It is cheaper for us to fly into Heathrow from the U.S. SO my thought is, we fly out on a Tuesday and arrive Wednesday. Wednesday and Thursday we spend in London. Friday we take the train to Salisbury and go to Stonehenge and then to Bath. Friday night or Saturday morning we fly from Bristol to Edinburgh and spend Saturday to Saturday in Scotland. We will fly out saturday. Too crazy???

Oh and the lay over at Heathrow seems to be close to 12 hours :(

If you are not wanting to join a group tour but are having problems with an itinerary, there is always Secret Scotland.
http://www.secret-scotland.com/

They have a selection of itineraries of different length. They will also help you plan your itinerary.

If you are wanting to get away from Edinburgh/Glasgow areas then you really do need a car.

Don't be sad about not seeing London - Scotland is miles better!

Once you have identified possible areas then have a look at the Undiscovered Scotland website.
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/
Start with the maps and click on the links for the text pages with lots of information and pictures of things to do and see. You will find plenty of ruined castles and ancient remains all over Scotland.

If you are interested in prehistory, then do seriously consider Orkney as the main island is stuffed with prehistoric remains. There are stone circles, ancient burial mounds, brochs and the prehistoric village of Skara Brae. Through in Brough of Birsay, the Bishop's and Earl's Palaces as well as St Magnus Cathedral...
Check out the links on Undiscovered Scotland here:
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.u...es/orkney.html

As bilboburgler says, Orkney is completely different to the mainland of Scotland and the Norse influence is still strong.

(By the way Faroe is not part of the UK but of Denmark. It is the tiny group of islands beween Scotland and Iceland. They are pretty amazing too but not for this holiday!)

I've just read your last post.

Wednesday is going to be bit of a non day with jet lag and the time taken to pick up luggage, clear immigration and get to London. That effectively is only going to give you one day to do London.

Friday sounds hectic with train to Salisbury, presumably taxi to Stonehenge and then ??? to Bath. You aren't going to have much time to see Bath, especially as you need to get to Bristol for the flight to Edinburgh either Friday or Saturday.

I'm a bit confused. In your original post you indicate you want to spend most of your time in Scotland and now you're bringing in Salisbury, Stonehenge and Bath. Sure you can include them, but it would be helpful for those of us offering advice to have a clear view of what you actually want to do. Personally, I think arriving in London on a Wednesday and trying to include London, Salisbury, Stonehenge and Bath in three days is too much.

I want to go back a little to a basic question - I have a reason.

Where are you coming from? If by some chance you're coming from someplace convenient to Boston, JFK, Dulles or Chicago airports AND if you want to start off in the south of England, then I'd suggest you look into flying on one the morning departures offered from those airports to Heathrow. With just 10 days and an ambitious itinerary, jetlag is a real enemy, and we find that the morning flights really help to minimize jetlag. You fly east during daylight, arrive in the evening. By the time you've gone through immigration and customs at Heathrow, and ridden the bus to a nearby hotel, it's midnight or so local time, maybe later, but still early evening according to your body clock. Get a snack, hit the sheets, and the next morning you're good to go.

As for your (amended) plans for the south of England, I'd suggest that you rent a car instead of all the trains. Yes, you'll have to get used to driving on the left, but millions of people have managed it just fine, and especially given the time of year, the car will offer much more convenience and weather protection, will enable you to stay in smaller towns or villages, or rural B&Bs, and really get a better feel for the land.

As for spending days in London, I truly believe they should be put at the end of the trip if at all, when your energy levels have been restored. London can be very tiring, not to mention very expensive. Frankly, with 10 days I'd skip London altogether and put it off for a later trip.

Now, as to your days in Scotland... Well, for one thing, April is pretty early, and the weather can be... changeable to say the least. It can be sunny and almost-warm one day, horizontal rain the next, then back and forth over a period of hours. Remember that you're much farther north than you might think, and the weather coming off the Atlantic has had a goodly distance to build up. Accordingly, the east side of the country - near the North Sea - has a slight benefit of being drier than the west.

Unfortunately, much of the Highlands are in the west, so if you're including that part of Scotland in your itinerary, plan accordingly. (This is not to say you'll have a terrible time in the north or west, just that you might see it through a car window more than you'd like.)

I know this is getting complicated, but if I were planning a week or so in Scotland in April, I'd probably look at a driving trip something like this - http://goo.gl/maps/LLG48 - followed by a few days in Edinburgh, with London - just London - at the end, if at all. If you're flying into Heathrow, just fly on up to Edinburgh - faster and cheaper than the train, and far less hassle.

The loop mapped above includes some stunning history and landscapes - Kilmartin Glen in the west is like a prehistoric open-air museum, with standing stones, burial cairns, stone circles, Celtic crosses... it's a truly remarkable place. Then up to Glencoe, with its tragic history and stunning scenery (e.g. http://gardyloo.us/20130613_71Hs.jpg ) then over to Forfar for your Guthrie connections (and, by the way, home of Forfar bridies - delicious.) Head out to the Angus coast - Arbroath (more good food, Arbroath smokies) is a very historic and quite picturesque town on the North Sea, with numerous small castles in the vicinity, not to mention a rather grand ruined abbey in the town itself.

From there, back through Dundee and over the Tay to St. Andrews - run along the beach with Vangelis playing in the background - then back to Edinburgh via the East Neuk of Fife - a string of fairytale fishing villages - Crail, St. Monans, Pittenweem et al - along the north coast of the Firth of Forth.

This abbreviated tour of the Scottish countryside will only serve to whet your appetite for more, but that's the risk you take with any trip to Scotland.

Historytraveler I was researching flights and the ones coming from Philadelphia, New York or Baltimore fly into Heathrow with a layover to Edinburgh of upto 12 hours. I just figured if we flew into Heathrow Instead of wasting a whole day waiting to make our connection to Edingburgh maybe we would just take three days to see London and the outskirts a little and then goto Scotland for the remaining days. It isn't set in stone. I was actually just asking to get feedback from people who are more knowledgeable than I. It definitely seems though that everyone is in agreement that trying to do London is a bit much and I am really fine with that. It was just a thought and not knowing the area or what to expect sometimes you can get a bit ambitious when planning.

Gardyloo, the flights I am finding all seem to leave in the evening hours and get into London in the late morning to late afternoon. I would prefer flying in the morning out of the states. Just doesn't seem like that is a popular option.

There are morning flights on AA and BA from JFK, and on United out of Dulles, but nothing out of Philly. If you're thinking of heading straight to Scotland, then Newark-Edinburgh on United would be my preference. If you want to leave from Philly and go straight to Scotland, then changing planes at Heathrow is your best bet. If you want to spend a night near Heathrow but not head into central London, then you could do a day trip (or spend the night) in Windsor, which is very close and quite convenient to Heathrow. Hotels near LHR are considerably cheaper than in the city; we usually use Priceline and have never spent more than US$100 for a 4-star hotel such as the Sheraton Skyline, Marriott, or Crowne Plaza.

If you want to go straight to Edinburgh (either nonstop from EWR or via London) there's a new tram/light rail that runs from Edinburgh airport into the central part of the city. Or, if you want to head into the Scottish countryside right away, car rental from the airport is very easy and you're right on the motorway (freeway) system heading east or north directly from the airport. On my last trip over I spent the night of arrival at the very nice Dakota Hotel in South Queensferry (itself a very nice little town with terrific history.) Here's a brief trip report I filed last year - http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...n-scotland.cfm

http://www.dakotahotels.co.uk/hotels/edinburgh/

Have you looked at British Airways for flights from LHR to Edinburgh? BA has flights leaving LHR about every hour. The flight to Edinburgh takes about 90 minutes. This would be much easier than a 10 hour layover even if not flying BA or one of its partners into LHR.

Regarding Gardyloo's post. If you were planning on spending ten days in the south of England, I woukd definitely suggest you rent a car, but for trips to Salisbury/ Stonehenge and Bath, I think the train makes more sense. Also note that both can easily be done as day trips from London. A day doing Salisbury/Stonehenge and a second day for Bath. The train to/ from Salisbury takes 90 minutes. Stonehenge can be done via bus from Salisbury train station. Bath is about an hour by train from Salisbury and hour and half from London. Remember you will need another night in London before departing to Edinburgh via train. There are a couple of ways to do this if you're intent on including them in your itinerary. Again, look for BA flights from LHR to Edinburgh. www.britishairways.com

Unlike Gardyloo, I always spend a couple of days in London before heading to Scotland. My last day (s) are spent in Oxford. I'm usually more tired at the end of a trip than the beginning and, although, I do sometimes suffer from jetlag, I usually recover pretty quickly.

If you haven't been to London before and want to see it, I would try to see at least the Tower of London and Westminster Abbey and do walk-bys of Buckingham Palace, the Houses of Parliament, Big Ben, and the Thames before doing any day trips. Then if you want to spend any more time there, you could add maybe one day trip and/or the British or the V&A Museum, the Churchill War Rooms, St. Paul's Cathedral, a West End play--the list is really endless--as is the list in Scotland. It's a real dilemna with our short U.S. vacation times.

I agree with those who suggest that you go by your public library or bookstore and spend a lot of time with the different travel guides. I also like the Rabbies and Timberbush small group tours.

BTW, check out Virgin Atlantic flights too as they also fly from LHR to EDI.

Checking Lufthansa and BA from Newark, nj. Seems cheaper and flies directly Into Edinburgh non stop. They seem promising.

Have a look at United. I think they may fly non-stop Newark to Edinburgh.

From Newark to Edinburgh nonstop, any Lufthansa flight will actually be a codeshare on United metal. BA doesn't fly transatlantic straight to EDI.