Trip changes- added Paris and Florence!
 

I changed my trip around last night. Basically added a week and replaced NYC with Paris. So now I have another night in both Rome and London, nearly a week in Paris, and 3 nights in Florence between Venice and Rome.

So Paris and Florence are the two completely new additions and now j have more planning to do. Lodging is all taken care of. Reccomendations for food would be much appreciated.

Does anyone have tips for eating inexpensively in Paris? I'm a little more budget minded now that I've added a week, but I'd rather have more time than shopping/dining money.

What do you love doing in Florence? I'd love to hear about your favorite sites. I'm going for the Accademia and Uffizi mostly, but I'd also like to see some of the city. are there any good free or inexpensive walking tours?

I'm still tentatively considering a day trip to Pompeii from Rome. I realize it will certainly be dependent on the weather. But one of the issues I'm encountering is that most of the tours I had bookmarked are now mostly too expensive for my blood. There's a walks of Italy tour I'd consider but because of winter scheduling, there's only one day I could go. Not optimal. Is it advisable to independently tour? Are there any good audio guides for that? I figure I'll go to Naples for the Christmas alley and the national museum and then visit Pompeii if the weather allows. Pompeii is on my bucket list and I'd hate to pass on it when I'm so close!

Are there any museums/sites that you advise buying tickets ahead of time? So far I have Borghese. I generally play it by ear but I expect that early January might be busy in both Rome and Paris.

Are there any good day trips from Paris in case I need a break? The two obvious ones that everyone I know has suggested are Disney and Versailles but neither sound all that fun in the winter. Any small cities or villages that are easy to reach and would be interesting even in January?

Thanks so much for any suggestions you can give me!

"Are there any good day trips from Paris in case I need a break?"

Get a copy of Anabel Simms' book, "An Hour from Paris". Descriptions of a number of places and how to get there. Small enough to carry with you so you don't have to decide in advance.

Great! Thanks, mmeperdu!

Also look up French Mystique Tours here on Fodors. He has an exhaustive list of daytrips from Paris.

Ones that I've enjoyed, some many times, are:

Chantilly and Senlis
Auvers-sur-Oise
Fontainebleau
Vaux-le-Vicomte
Saint-Denis
Basilica of Saint-Denis
St-Germain-en-Laye
Ile des Impressionistes
And Château de Vincennes, which is IN Paris.

My husband and I are in Paris often enough that we don't feel the need to spend a lot of money on food, so we tend to eat casual meals in the outer arrondissements. We are also fond of eating "ethnic foods" in Paris - Vietnamese in Belleville, Thai and Lebanese and African in Ménilmontant, etc. We will always be happy splurging for a nice meal someplace, but unlike a lot of people we don't go to Paris for elegant meals - we can have them right here at home for much less.

It would help if you mentioned a budget, in euros, for what you'd like to stick to for food in Paris.

Oooh, hadn't thought to look for ethnic food. Is there any good middle eastern restaurants in Paris? That is something that is less easy to find here.

Honestly, I haven't really got a firm budget. If I'm being "good" at home, that's generally under 30 a meal. I just want to keep it as low as possible and not eat fast food. (When I'm being "naughty", it's 60+ a meal, and I simply can't afford that every day- or even most days- of this trip).

We're on the same wavelength for budget, then. My husband and I can often make it for well under 50 € a day for food, but caveat: we adore food, but have relatively small appetities. We can often share an appetizer, one main plât, and a quart de vin and be perfectly full and happy. For breakfast we can share a croissant and each have a coffee. For lunch we can happily share a sandwich. So it does depend on how much you can/want to eat. There's no need to eat fast food - we never do (unless you call takeout sushi or kebabs fast food). 30€ for a nice meal for each of us is a "nice" meal, though we've gone way beyond that sometimes.

Where will you be staying? I'll try to scrounge up some of our good but inexpensive favorites that aren't too much of a problem to get to.

MIJE hostel. I think the name of the neighborhood is Marais, but I could be wrong. Thanks, that would be very much appreciated!

It sounds like you and your husband eat the same way I do. The trick for me is that I'm a light eater as long as I feed myself throughout the day- it's when I skip meals that I generally get into trouble with my dinner bill.

I love soup, good delis, good bakeries. Heavily processed or fried generally takes a toll- and I can eat dairy but generally only in small amounts. I'm mostly thinking with the weather that I'll be wanting hot meals- during the summer, which is when I generally travel, I tend to eat a lot of salad or cold sandwiches.

Very general question: what is inexpensive to order beverage wise? I've gathered soda is expensive in Europe. Coffee or tea or house wine perhaps? I usually want something other than water with my dinners.

And lastly- I am an espresso and pastry fiend, so if you have any favorite patisseries or coffee shops, please mention them!

Does French Mystique only do bike tours? Because that is what keeps coming up. I'm very tempted but I'm not sure if I want to part with the money (or risk scheduling ahead and end up going in freezing rain).

I'm doing nasty French administrative stuff tonight, so don't have time to go back into my restaurant files, but will get to it if not tomorrow, over the weekend.

I'm afraid I'm no good at all with pastries. I was born without a sweet tooth, and even with the magnificent displays all over Paris (and France), I'm never tempted except very, very occasionally by a lemon tartelette.

We usually order a quarter pitcher of the house wine (mostly red, but sometimes white, or rosé if they have a nice dry one we're familiar with). That's usually the least expensive. Sodas ARE expensive, and should it make any difference to you (which it shouldn't), it's considered pretty gauche in France to drink a soda with a meal in a restaurant. There are, of course, lots of mineral waters to choose from normally, or beers, or non-alcoholic drinks (boissons sans alcool).

Your hostel sounds like it is fairly close to our hotel, on the outskirts of the Marais. Lovely neighborhood all around Bastille and République. You can also easily get from there to Belleville and Ménilmontant, which are teeming with inexpensive, good, ethnic restaurants. The Belleville Market is something to behold.

I'm doing nasty French administrative stuff tonight, so don't have time to go back into my restaurant files, but will get to it if not tomorrow, over the weekend.

I'm afraid I'm no good at all with pastries. I was born without a sweet tooth, and even with the magnificent displays all over Paris (and France), I'm never tempted except very, very occasionally by a lemon tartelette.

We usually order a quarter pitcher of the house wine (mostly red, but sometimes white, or rosé if they have a nice dry one we're familiar with). That's usually the least expensive. Sodas ARE expensive, and should it make any difference to you (which it shouldn't), it's considered pretty gauche in France to drink a soda with a meal in a restaurant. There are, of course, lots of mineral waters to choose from normally, or beers, or non-alcoholic drinks (boissons sans alcool).

Your hostel sounds like it is fairly close to our hotel, on the outskirts of the Marais. Lovely neighborhood all around Bastille and République. You can also easily get from there to Belleville and Ménilmontant, which are teeming with inexpensive, good, ethnic restaurants. The Belleville Market is something to behold.

Some of my favorite, lesser-known sights in Florence:

Opificio delle Pietre Dure (near Accademia)
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus...etre_dure.html

Capella dei Magi (Palazzo Medici Riccardi near San Lorenzo)
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus..._the_magi.html

Capella Brancacci (reservations required, near Santo Spirito)
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus...ci_chapel.html

Palazzo Davanzati, the restored villa of a prominent merchant and civic leader which also holds a wonderful lace collection
http://www.museumsinflorence.com/mus...davanzati.html

The six Last Supper frescoes scattered around the city; similar and yet each unique.

More obvious sights you shouldn't miss:

Exterior and interior of the Baptistry

Interior of Duomo and Santa Croce. Climb to the Duomo's Lantern if you can.

The Bargello

Good luck with your nasty French admin stuff! I generally don't have much of a sweet tooth either but I am frequently lured in by pastries which are my weak spot.

One could argue it is uncultured and unhip to order soda with dinner here (at least if one is over 21) but many restaurants just don't have great nonalcoholic options and wine can be so ridiculously marked up in price. I like sparkling mineral water, and decent tea but that is surprisingly difficult to find. So soda is my default and nope, I don't care what others think:) I am assuming that since you don't have a sweet tooth, house wine tends to be on the dry side?

Cotes du Rhone is the usual default wine - it's medium-dry, goes with everything and is cheap. Saumur is a close second, and both are available in red or white.

You can buy quiches, salades, sandwiches for under 6 EU at bakeries all along rue Saint-Antoine, about 2 blocks from you. There is a very good Asian place at 81 rue Saint Antoine - "Delice House" - where you can ask them to heat your meal to go or you can eat in the back. Very inexpensive and a lot of food. Behind Monoprix in the same neighborhood is "La Cerise sur la Pizza".
There are fruit and vegetable stands on rue Saint-Antoine - make sure you don't touch anything unless you see bags available.

MIJE does not allow alcohol on the premises, but there is a park right next door which is somewhat protected from the wind, and there are benches. You can buy bottles of wine for less than 5 EU from the supermarket and drink there or in other parks, as long as you do it discreetly.

Yes, we order dry wines, when possible, and Côtes du Rhône is usually a good choice. And yes, it's normally a good deal cheaper than a soda.

Sounds like a wonderful trip! We're starting to think about visiting France in 2018. Since we travel on a fairly low budget, I hope you'll do a trip report.

For Rome, we booked tickets for the Colosseum and the Vatican Museums ahead of time online, and in Florence, we booked Uffizi tickets online.

We thought the New Rome Free Tour was good - informative, and we got to see a few things we most likely wouldn't have found on our own. www.newromefreetour.com

In Florence, we enjoyed Florence Free Tour's Renaissance walk. http://www.florencefreetour.com

Both tours are tip-based; there is no charge for the tour, so you tip your guide what you think your time was worth at the end.

Lee Ann

Jean gave you a good list. I will second Santa Croce in Florence.

Instead of looking for Middle Eastern, you might look for North African, as there are quite a few of those in Paris, of course (tunisian, Moroccan, etc.), given history. But you can find cheap restaurants fairly easily in the more outer arrondisements.

AS for beverages, I am not sure what you mean by soda, I gather a soft drink not seltzer or carbonated water. no, I do not find soda to be more expensive than wine, in fact, it is about the same price as I recall in all the places I tend to go. And the same price as cheap wine, not the more expensive stuff. Draft beer may be a little bit cheaper. For example, a glass of the cheapest house wine may be around 5-6 euro (and that is not a lot, only 15 cl), and a soft drink like Coke or Orangina, whatever, is also around 5-6 euro, as will be many bottled waters like Evian, Vittel, etc. for 50 cl. The cheapest draft beer may be 5 euro, a bit less than the others.

The reason why wine may be cheaper is just that you can order a carafe for 2 people and you can't do that with soda. For example, a pichet of cheap house wine may be 8-10 euro but that is only 25 cl, not even 2 of the 15 cl glasses. The larger ones (50 cl) may be about 16-20 euro, so per person, that is more than a single soft drink. At least those are typical prices in the cafes/bistros etc where I stay and I don't stay in the most expensive areas in the center, I am often in Montparnasse. But in the even cheaper areas, those example prices may be a bit less by a euro or so per glass or whatever.

A lot of French people don't care if it is supposedly so gauche in France to drink Coke with meals as I have seen numerous French people doing it and they didn't seem to care what others thought. In fact, I've noticed that local residents often don't care about these things, it's the people with the rules about what is gauche or not who do to lecture tourists who do. If anyone told me at home that I shouldn't order what I wanted to drink in a restaurant as it was "gauche", I'd tell them to get lost.

IME, in both France and Italy the cheapest drinking options are wine [by the carafe or glass] and tap water [un carafe d'eau]. soda, by which I suppose you mean coke or lemonade, are the most expensive. As for tea, forget it - they don't get the water hot enough.

In Florence, a fun day can be had by going first to the museum in the piazza San Marco [at the top of Via Cavour] [it opens only in the mornings] and then getting the bus up to Fiesole . It goes from the other side of the square, quite close to the entrance to the Academia. Once up there you can walk up to the San Francesco Monastery, and see the Egyptian mummies in the museum, then walk back down to the Basilica in the square and the Roman Theatre, before having lunch in the square.

Get the bus back down to see the Academia and have tea in the lovely cafe on the corner of Cavour and the piazza :

http://www.grancaffesanmarco.it/en

buona giornata!

Also, a cheap and good meal can be had at the cafe in the Mercato San Ambroglio, just north of Santa Croce, and the area around the market is well worth exploring too.

Fuzzbucket, great tips, exactly the sort of thing that I was looking for. I can spend a bit more in dinners if I can do cheap breakfast and lunch- and I love quiche! I'm completely ok with the hostel being booze free- I actually prefer that in a hostel.

Elendilpickle- I certainly plan to do a trip report but have no idea how helpful that will be to you. This is uncharted territory for me, so it should be interesting. Thinking about doing a rolling TR as I go, but that may involve a lot of posts that begin with "I got so lost today";) thanks for the free tour suggestions!

I really, really do not want to jettison this thread into an endless wrangle over tips. I understand that one doesn't tip a certain percentage in restaurants like we Americans are used to. But what do y'all usually tip the city walk tour guides? Especially when it's free?

Christina- yes, I mean coke. I'll choose wine over coke if it's the same price. For one thing, less sugar. But what I'm really looking forward to is German beer!! I honestly don't think anyone cares what tourists look like or what they drink- except here on the forums lol. Then it's Serious Business.

annhig- thanks for the mummies! Didn't know those existed! bummer about the tea. At least I have London to look forward to. Is coffee fairly good? I mean drip style at restaurants? Or do they generally do French press? Is it possible to get hot water at coffee shops for my thermos? I was thinking of carrying my own tea- I do that here pretty frequently when the only game in town is Starbucks.

If there are any cocktail drinkers here...where would you splurge? France or Italy or England? Why?

Jean's list for Florence, especially Brancacci Chapel, plus Santa Croce plus San Marco. I actually don't like Florence itself all that much, but the art, architecture and history--holy hell, it's fantastic. Have a wonderful time!

As long as you don't mix wine with coke and don't add ketchup in the sauce a l echalotte nobody will bar an eye.
Yes tap water is free and you don't need to tip - some might say you mustn't but it is your call after all.
For very cheap meals check the creperies or the so called Japanese sushi shops - usually recycled Chinese restaurants.
Kerouac posted a great link to inexpensive restaurants.
Last tip : lunches are cheaper than dinner.

lespetitestables.com
And it might have been somebody else but a great tip !

I like the link, Wo. Although I feel like I may end up ordering blind a lot.

That reminds me...does anyone know of good food dictionary apps? My book collection has grown to the point that I am going to have to start culling some from my backpack.

Meals, you should be able to find three course lunches including wine for E15 M to F throughout Paris. Wine will be jug wine. You see the signs outside places but note the timings are pretty specific.

Ethnic is the way to go in the evening. There are so many good ones, just look around student areas (5 or 7 are good).

Vegetarian will prove even cheaper, especially within ethnic restaurants.

Espressi, are everywhere in little bars, ordering at the bar and drinking there will be cheaper than sitting at a table, normally you can buy with a croissant/pain au raisin. The days of the E1 are going but 1.2 or 1.50 are still easy.

Roma Termini - Pompei Vila dei Misteri, some train connections:
Rome dp 7.35 - Pompei ar 9.47
Rome dp 8.48 - Pompei ar 10.47
Rome dp 10.10 - Pompei ar 12.17
Pompei dp 15.53 - Rome ar 17.40
Pompei dp 18.23 - Rome ar 20.10
Standard RT fare 93 EUR/PAX

Wherever you end up, look for "happy hours" if you want to splurge on cocktails. You have to take whatever they are promoting that day, but it's much less cheaper than paying an average 15 - 20 EU per cocktail. In my experience, cocktails are not so great in Paris unless they are expensive.

The main business of coffee shops is selling coffee, so you'll either have to be prepared to fork over a lot of money to fill up your thermos, or maybe ask to use the kettle or microwave at MIJE.
The alternative would be to buy an inexpensive immersion heater so you could heat water when you wanted to.

If you drink coffee with milk, a large one is called "un grand creme". If you want a very small one with just a little milk, it's called "un noisette".
"Un express" is espresso, you can order "un double express" if you want double the coffee.
I wouldn't order "cafe allonge" or "cafe americain", because it's just watered down coffee.
Under no circumstances should you order "un cappuccino" - an overpriced mess of watered down coffee with a bunch of useless foam on top.

Where you sit in a cafe matters and will cost you more money for drinks. The terrace is the most expensive, inside is a little less, and standing at the bar is the cheapest of all.

Meal times are observed pretty strictly in Paris - 7:30 - 11:30 breakfast, 12 - 2:30 lunch, snacks and drinks from 3 to 7PM, then dinner from 7 to 11PM. If you just want a drink, look for tables which have not been set with cutlery and glasses.

Tipping a "free tour" guide doesn't mean that the guide will get the money, even if you slip it to him/her very discreetly. Depending on the outfit you choose, the tour guide may not even be paid a salary and might not be allowed to keep tips.

PS - In Paris in January, I don't think you'll have too much trouble with crowded museums. Get the Paris Museum Pass if you want to skip the admission lines and/or want to re-enter the same day. Make sure that the museums you want to see are covered on the Pass. You can purchase it at the first museum you visit, then sign and date it.

The regular train stop in Pompei is not near the entrance to the archaeological site. It's near the Villa dei Misteri, a great ancient villa, which I recommend you visit. The villa is outside the actual archaeological site. There is an exit from the site nearby, but to enter, you'd have quite a long walk from the train station.

Most people take the train to Naples and then switch to the Circumvesuviana, a little local railway whose cars resemble a metro more than a train. This line leaves you off very near the entrance to the site. It takes about half an hour from Naples. They now have a more expensive express train on the Circumvesuviana which will get you to Pompeii quicker, and without the jostling of the commuter crowd on the regular train.

By the way, the Italian city is Pompei while the ancient city is Pompeii.

marvelousmouse - fuzz bucket has given you the lowdown on coffee in France - so if bvl will allow, I'll have a go at Italy.

un caffè - is an espresso - if you say un café they will usually ask "espresso?" to make sure as many tourists don't realise that what they have asked for is a small black coffee.

un cappuccino - is not just watered down coffee with foam but is an espresso with steamed milk and froth. Italians only drink it "or a caffè latte" [coffee with hot milk] for breakfast but they are used to our funny foreign ways and will oblige you with whatever you order.

Ask for "latte" [milk] and that's what you'll get - just milk. The type of long milky coffee often served in a glass which is the British call "a latte" is unknown in Italy, so far.

un macchiato - is an espresso with a dash of milk

un ristretto - ditto but with a shot of grappa or brandy

un caffè lungo is espresso with water added - like an americano which you can also ask for if that's what you want.

Drink it at the bar, it'll cost about €1, give or take; at a table it's more and outside on the terrace probably more still. In some places they will serve a glass of water with your espresso, and in Sicily we were given a glass of water that was half still, half sparkling, which I'd never seen before.

I still remember my first caffe in Milano in 1990.
About 2 ml but it made a hole in my stomach that is still there. Now I drink tea in Italy.

marvelousmouse - will you be in a private room at MIJE?
If so, you can go to Monoprix and buy wine for less than 5EU and drink it in your room. Nobody will see or mind what you do if you toss the bottles in the bins on the street.

Tea in Italy; amazingly it is possible that some cafes or restaurants will have a tea pot, we have been lucky but if not you will be offered a cup of hot water and a tea bag from some unknown company like "Abduls of Croyden". Good news, you may get a little ginger biscuit to go with it.

Do you have a teapot? is "Hai una teiera?" with a rising inflection at the end. "di piu acqua calda per favore?" may well get you a free fill up.

Fuzzbucket- so a museum ticket is not good for same day reentry but a pass is? That is good to know- would not have expected that. Usually the city museum pass is good for one entry per museum which often renders it rather useless to me.

No private room. I was tempted but might as well stay in a hotel at that price!

I've been trying to figure out Italian pronunciation. How are piu and teiera pronounced? Pe-u or pew? Tera or tey-ra?

I look forward to a report, mm, to know what you think of MIJE. In particular, the bathroom situation as I couldn't seem to find them fully described on the site. For instance, does each room have one for it's occupants?. The private have "sink & shower" but a toilet? I was also not sure if one knew which building was being booked or are we not given a choice? I see only young people in the photos so are there older guests? And anything else that strikes you about the place.

Yes, I could not figure those out either, mmeperdu, so I will certainly report back! It's not a very explicit booking site.

But from what I read in the reviews, it is a mix of ages (people complained about schoolchildren and families). Not a party hostel but excellent location was the gist so I am thinking it will be pretty basic.

How compact is Paris? I'm thinking in terms of the arrondissements? It's difficult to tell from the map, and I cannot really figure out the layout- how each area is determined.

I find Paris quite compact, especially the center, those arrondissements along the river. But one can also walk from those farther out, for instance from the 18th to the river (which is downhill- I usually bus or metro back up).

If you get one of the pocket map books, available everywhere by various publishers, you may get a better idea of where one ends and another begins. Each has a sort of nebulous identity so people think they know what sort of neighborhood you're in even when they don't. Each arrondissement has a variety of identities and they can change from street to street.

But I find it much more organized than many other cities and more walkable. But that may be also because I know it a bit better. I'll be interested to see answers from those who live there.

<<How are piu and teiera pronounced? Pe-u or pew? Tera or tey-ra?>>

Pyoo (one syllable)

Tay-era (it's 3 syllables, not 2), with the rising inflection at the end as noted.

Buy a Paris par Arrondissement booklet at any kiosk or bookstore.

Thanks! It's the syllables and emphasis that I'm having the most trouble with!

Italian is one of the easiest romance languages, as its pronounciation is almost perfectly regular. Go on Duolingo or some other site that has audio and listen - it's a really easy language.

Italian sounds to me on the street just as it does in the movies. I've found I'm understood best when it feels to me like I'm doing a caricature, with expression & a bit of body language. And that makes it fun.