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-   -   Translation help, please (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/translation-help-please-328335/)

Scarlett Jun 18th, 2003 05:53 PM

LOL!
Sicula and the Tornado!!!

wantagig Jun 19th, 2003 07:26 AM

Alice said "(nations' names do not require the article)"

I thought that masculine ending nations required the article. e.g. negli Stati Uniti o nel Messico.

Alice_Twain Jun 19th, 2003 10:55 AM

That's not perfectly true. Stati Uniti requires the article (as well as Regno Unito and Unione Sovietica, which is no more, but I needed a femminine example) because it is a composed name that suggests a union of some kind (le Isole Vanuatu are another example). Messico does not require it. So you have "Negli Stati Uniti", "Nell'Unione Sovietica" but "In Messico".
Also, all nation's names have an article when they are the subject of the phrase or the "complemento oggetto" in a direct phrase , so "Gli Stati Uniti, il Messico e l'Argentina sono in America", but also "L'America ospita gli Stati Uniti, il Messico e l'Argentina".
In the above case, though (complemento di stato in luogo) only composed nations names that suggest a union bear an article.

wantagig Jun 19th, 2003 04:41 PM

Well Alice, I had to break out the good ol' "Schaum's Outline Series Italian Grammar" book. I will type the quote:

The definite article is omitted when the name of the continent, country, island, or region is proceeded by the prepositions "in" or "di":

In Europa, in Sardegna, di Spagna

The definite article is used, however, with the prepositions "in" and "di" when the name of the country or region is masculine.

Vado nel Messico
I miei nonni sono nel Lazio
La capitale del Canada e Ottawa

I had also learned the same thing from my Italian professor which didn't use this particular grammar workbook. I swear, I'm not trying to argue, but simply hoping to clarify. I remembered the Messico thing because I'm half Messicana! Viva la raza!

LVSue Jun 19th, 2003 05:06 PM

Oooh! I love this! I'm probably the only Fodorite who thinks grammar is fascinating!

Holly_uncasdewar Jun 19th, 2003 08:43 PM

So jahoulih, are you saying that "agrifogli" translates to the word "holly"? (Just personally curious, that's all)

Alice_Twain Jun 20th, 2003 02:02 AM

Tha'ts be cause complemento di specificazione, complemento di stato in luogo are more or less the two that apply to nations' names 8plus complemento di moto a luogoo, also introduced by in, in this case). Complemento di moto da luogo (introduced by "da") also requres articles, ando so does complemento di causa efficiente, which is little used, though.

Steve_James Jun 20th, 2003 02:22 AM

This is giving me a splitting mal di testa!

Hey Alice - How much do you charge for private lessons ;) ??

jahoulih Jun 20th, 2003 03:30 AM

Correct, Holly. It's "agrifoglio" in the singular, "agrifogli" in the plural.


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